Author Topic: TLF Version 1.900-2.007  (Read 11083 times)

Offline Eternaly_Lost

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2014, 04:22:15 PM »
You know, speaking of credits, that does give me an idea.

Is it possible that in Betryal mode, your planet could produce a small, but steady stream of credits?

Say, having your robots make something you can use.

Then add in a line of buildings that increases the income rate?

Or is that basically what the Raw Materials are suppose to do for your race? If so, I think you might want to add options to let us colonize the moons above the world you are on.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2014, 09:25:49 PM »
I've tried a second game, but I find myself losing interest for the same reason as the first.

The only thing that makes the player unique is the flagship. This power intentionally is meant to decline over time. However, in Betryal mode the chips seemed lined up that this power is curtailed, and the natrual AI benefits are present from the 3010.


The player really needs either all the planetary  abilities that other races have (the ability to construct builds and research at the same time) or a unique edge to make up for this strategic disadvantage. Being Batman in the tactical side is great but finite, but if playing the strategic game the player needs to either be on the same field or have a unique mechanic. I say this from playing over a dozen grand strategy games.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 11:05:21 PM by chemical_art »
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #62 on: November 15, 2014, 10:49:02 AM »
I've tried a third game, but I seem to be unable to get an edge. I don't know how I am supposed to get an advantage. By the time I get one race to neutral relations, the others are ganging up on me.

Anyone have ideas?
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Offline Misery

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #63 on: November 15, 2014, 08:01:46 PM »
Very quick question here:

Invasion mode, are you supposed to be able to take out the Obscura by simply using the PlanetCracker on them?  That one seems kinda like a "win button" in that particular mode. 

Offline Eternaly_Lost

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2014, 08:08:45 PM »
Very quick question here:

Invasion mode, are you supposed to be able to take out the Obscura by simply using the PlanetCracker on them?  That one seems kinda like a "win button" in that particular mode.

Personally, I don't see any reason why not. Although, are you really able to afford to PlanetCracker them before they take their first new planet?

Offline Misery

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2014, 08:27:33 PM »
Very quick question here:

Invasion mode, are you supposed to be able to take out the Obscura by simply using the PlanetCracker on them?  That one seems kinda like a "win button" in that particular mode.

Personally, I don't see any reason why not. Although, are you really able to afford to PlanetCracker them before they take their first new planet?

I have no idea.  I"m actually just bringing it up after seeing something about it in the Steam forums, where someone apparantly just did that to win.  It's not an option I'd at all thought of myself.... never really had reason to use it, always forget it's there...  hard to tell if it's something of an exploit or not.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2014, 03:37:40 PM »
I wouldnt consider it an exploit. If the enemy turtles for so long that someone can research a game ending tech and then deploy I think its fine
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Offline Misery

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2014, 11:30:37 PM »
I wouldnt consider it an exploit. If the enemy turtles for so long that someone can research a game ending tech and then deploy I think its fine

That's the thing though:  It's not a tech.  You simply pay the Acutians to do it, and multiple industries of theirs (like, 6 of them) have the option available.  They do not need to research it... they just need a moon, and I've never seen them NOT have one.

All YOU need is credits, which are earned by doing pretty much any action, as opposed to tech research which is an extremely specific action.   That's why I say it might be an exploit. 

Offline Eternaly_Lost

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2014, 11:40:17 PM »
I wouldnt consider it an exploit. If the enemy turtles for so long that someone can research a game ending tech and then deploy I think its fine

That's the thing though:  It's not a tech.  You simply pay the Acutians to do it, and multiple industries of theirs (like, 6 of them) have the option available.  They do not need to research it... they just need a moon, and I've never seen them NOT have one.

All YOU need is credits, which are earned by doing pretty much any action, as opposed to tech research which is an extremely specific action.   That's why I say it might be an exploit.

It also costs a fair bit and you need the Acutians to like you enough to do it on your say so.

If you start being able to do so on anything other then say, Easy, yes it a problem.

If it takes a very careful series of steps to do before the Obscura get to their second world (Or Obsucra getting very unluckly in the setup), then not so much.

Offline x4000

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2014, 11:38:44 AM »
Agreed on the invasion mode stuff with the planetcracker.  It was something I had considered as well, but the odds of the Obscura being still on one planet by the time you are able to afford the planetcracker shouldn't be that high.  There will always be outliers, and right now I'm chalking that up to this.  If that isn't the case and it's actually regularly repeatable, then something else will need to be done for sure, yeah.

Regarding Betrayal mode... hmm.

1. Having it where you can independently research tons of stuff seems like it's troublesome to me.  Both from an interface/clarity standpoint, and a few other areas.

2. That said, having a-universally-blandly-bad diplomatic situation at the start of every game is also boring and is what leads to a lot of that "I just don't have enough options early on in" feelings, I think.  With that in mind, tons of enhancements coming next release: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=The_Last_Federation_Post-2.0_Release_Notes#The_Pendulum_Swings_Back_A_Bit_On_Betrayal_Mode_Balance

3. I really like the idea of a passive credit gain.  I'm going to look at that, too.

4. I love the idea of the influence losses being halved when you are defending your own planets of facilities.  We're working on that, too.

5. Understood on interrupting dispatches to warn you of incoming attacks.  Added to the list also.


Thanks all!
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Offline x4000

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Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2014, 05:27:56 PM »
Agreed on the invasion mode stuff with the planetcracker.  It was something I had considered as well, but the odds of the Obscura being still on one planet by the time you are able to afford the planetcracker shouldn't be that high.  There will always be outliers, and right now I'm chalking that up to this.  If that isn't the case and it's actually regularly repeatable, then something else will need to be done for sure, yeah.

Regarding Betrayal mode... hmm.

1. Having it where you can independently research tons of stuff seems like it's troublesome to me.  Both from an interface/clarity standpoint, and a few other areas.

Passive credits helps with this indirectly, so still improved.

2. That said, having a-universally-blandly-bad diplomatic situation at the start of every game is also boring and is what leads to a lot of that "I just don't have enough options early on in" feelings, I think.  With that in mind, tons of enhancements coming next release: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=The_Last_Federation_Post-2.0_Release_Notes#The_Pendulum_Swings_Back_A_Bit_On_Betrayal_Mode_Balance

A more mature diplomatic situation will help in several ways. The enemy other races will not focus the hydral for several reasons, and lets tactical exploits to happen sooner which is better for the hydra.

3. I really like the idea of a passive credit gain.  I'm going to look at that, too.

This helps with number 1, and provides more immediate incentive to increase population.
4. I love the idea of the influence losses being halved when you are defending your own planets of facilities.  We're working on that, too.

Thank you for this!

5. Understood on interrupting dispatches to warn you of incoming attacks.  Added to the list also.


Thanks all!

Will also add the random friendly race + neutral race helps open many opportunities to exploit. I'm excited.
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Offline x4000

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.006 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2014, 05:55:38 PM »
Awesome! I thought you might like this. :)
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Offline Eternaly_Lost

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.006 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2014, 06:01:56 PM »
So, I decided to start a new game to try out these changes.

And found my mindless robots have a bit of a different idea what is critical to build.

Acutian Industry Buildings don't really help me along my goal of conquering the Solar System.

Where did they even get the plans for these things?


Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.006 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2014, 06:51:16 PM »
Positive relations with some races invokes talk of a federation in betryal mode.

I could be fine with a federations....if the head is hereditary, I'm in charge, and there is no possibly of a recall! But I doubt that is what is meant.


Also was sad I cannot embark in trade...even if there was nothing to my benefit but a passive relations boost I would take it!
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 06:59:49 PM by chemical_art »
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