Author Topic: TLF Version 1.900-2.007  (Read 11094 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.002 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2014, 09:17:58 PM »
Okay, the timing stuff has been backed out: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=The_Last_Federation_Post-2.0_Release_Notes#Version_2.003

I'm off for tonight, but if more changes are needed tomorrow then I'm thinking that it might be in the order of larger starting armadas for the other races, them being reluctant to attack you until you take a planet, and perhaps larger population bases starting out.  Not sure.  Hopefully we don't have to go that far, though, but we'll see.

Thanks!
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Offline nas1m

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.002 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2014, 05:05:38 AM »
This sounds like a bucketload of really good changes :D.
I am looking forward to trying them out this week.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.002 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2014, 06:06:21 AM »
Did some brainstorming over the night:

The goal is to use your attack time increases, Chris, but to make them more defined and appropriate.  Also, to find a reason as to why attacking on your own would cause this time increase, but not on defense or with other armadas.

The concept I came up with was supplies. The idea is that attacking by yourself would cause you, as dictator, to consume time to find supplies to engage in combat. This would be a flat time fee. It would only occur on solitary offensive combat, because with armadas they already have invisible supply chains (similarly with defense). As you take more planets and fear rises, supplies become even more difficult to find. Optionally, there could be Hydra only technology to lower the fee. Further optionally, any race with neutral or above influence would reduce this fee as well.

The concept would never brought it up in Federation mode, because the player is a mercenary and thus has numerous contacts for supply.

The fee could start small, like half a month, but would stack with each level of fear. This would give me freedom to do early raids, but make it impossible to raid everyone.
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Offline Misery

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.002 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2014, 08:27:14 AM »
I'll step in and point out one possible problem:

The bit about "time on solar map per tactical combat turns" being increased could turn into an absolute mess on higher difficulties.

On Misery, fights can take awhile.  But not for any exploity reason: They'll take awhile (no, seriously, they can take a TON of turns)  because of the extreme amount of dodging required, combined with the much higher health of enemies, and lower damage that you do.  And the tendancy for allied ships to melt really fast.  "Harder" can be similar.

That'll warp the difficulty of the solar map stuff, when the player involved (myself being an example) didn't want the solar map difficulty to be any higher than selected.  The two ARE supposed to be seperate, after all...

Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.002 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2014, 08:48:29 AM »
I'll step in and point out one possible problem:

The bit about "time on solar map per tactical combat turns" being increased could turn into an absolute mess on higher difficulties.

On Misery, fights can take awhile.  But not for any exploity reason: They'll take awhile (no, seriously, they can take a TON of turns)  because of the extreme amount of dodging required, combined with the much higher health of enemies, and lower damage that you do.  And the tendancy for allied ships to melt really fast.  "Harder" can be similar.

That'll warp the difficulty of the solar map stuff, when the player involved (myself being an example) didn't want the solar map difficulty to be any higher than selected.  The two ARE supposed to be seperate, after all...

A couple things:

I would be fine with combat having a maximium length of time in regards to the solar map. Meaning after so many turns the impact of solar map time is capped.

However, while the two modes have separate difficulties, their difficulty does intertwine. There IS a strategic impact of having a flagship that can crush everything. Just as there is a strategic impact if my ship struggles on basic fights.

But for the reasons you described, I want the additional "costs" of time for Betrayed mode to be fixed. A % based impact over the course of the battle simply is too variable.
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Offline x4000

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.002 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2014, 08:51:01 AM »
Hmm, all good points, both of you.

I am thinking that possibly the reaction of the AI to when you raid their fleets directly needs to be... more... in some way.  If there's still a balance problem.  Rather than making it take a cost in turns, as Misery points out, possibly it freaks out other races and causes a boom in production in betrayal mode, or something.

Right now I'm not certain if there is a problem or not, as it depends on whether you guys are still able to cheese things (I sure am not, but I never was in the first place, so I have no way of judging).

Note: the extra costs to time taken in battle have been removed as of 2.002, so that's already not really a factor.  They're back to how they were at 2.0.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.002 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2014, 08:59:54 AM »
Hmm, all good points, both of you.

I am thinking that possibly the reaction of the AI to when you raid their fleets directly needs to be... more... in some way.  If there's still a balance problem.  Rather than making it take a cost in turns, as Misery points out, possibly it freaks out other races and causes a boom in production in betrayal mode, or something.

I would am fine with invasions causing a boom in production, but not for raids. Many other races raid with little consequence and I wonder how the hydra is different if as long as it doesn't follow up with invasion.
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Offline Eternaly_Lost

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.002 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2014, 09:02:45 AM »
Hmm, all good points, both of you.

I am thinking that possibly the reaction of the AI to when you raid their fleets directly needs to be... more... in some way.  If there's still a balance problem.  Rather than making it take a cost in turns, as Misery points out, possibly it freaks out other races and causes a boom in production in betrayal mode, or something.

Right now I'm not certain if there is a problem or not, as it depends on whether you guys are still able to cheese things (I sure am not, but I never was in the first place, so I have no way of judging).

Note: the extra costs to time taken in battle have been removed as of 2.002, so that's already not really a factor.  They're back to how they were at 2.0.

I rather like Chemical_arts ideas of allies in Betrayal mode at the start to fix that.

You attack someone, their Allies goes and attack you. Amount the Ally responds depends on the damage you do and how 'unhurt' and 'safe' they are at the time. Wander in an blow up a single ship, you get a token response back.

Blow up every ship in orbit of a planet? Unless the Ally is under attack, or seriously outgunned, your going to find them send everything after you.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.002 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2014, 09:44:53 AM »
Trying again at peace:

Point 1. A really big one. Remove friendly options that never exist. It's ok to leave the tooltip for why giving space tech is not allowed, but things like research and space development just add clutter.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.002 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2014, 10:02:34 AM »
You have managed to stop my assaults!

It is as I feared would happened if I didn't pursue an immediate blitzkrieg from year 1.

The enemy are stronger, more numerous, and united, and even I cannot hold the line forever.

My map after 47s of solar time doing nothing but playing defense (I routed 3 armadas already)




and my map if I try to defend





It's as I feared. With my smaller empire, lack of technology, and united enemy against me I simply stand no chance.
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Offline x4000

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.004 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2014, 10:52:32 AM »
For some reason, the forum decided to stop notifying me of additions to this thread.  Sigh.

Anyhow, new version: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=The_Last_Federation_Post-2.0_Release_Notes#Version_2.004

Hopefully this will make it so that things are a bit better balanced so that you aren't getting crushed early on in, while still maintaining that you can't go on crazy assaults.  Among other things I took one of the earlier ideas from Eternaly_Lost about the AI overestimating you early on in and thus not rushing to attack you too soon.

In my quick tests, it took between 3 and 8 years for the AI to decide to kill me if I just sat there doing literally nothing.  That should be a decent window of time to accomplish some stuff that prevents the killing in the first place, hopefully. ;)
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.004 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2014, 11:23:40 AM »
Interesting stuff. What's not fun?

Defending Birds and being hit with assassins before the year is over. I'm trying to play nice, but no one wants to cooperate!

EDIT: ALSO: need to stop playing with the default settings. Getting hit with assassins with no abilities...yuck
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 11:27:27 AM by chemical_art »
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Offline x4000

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2014, 12:05:40 PM »
Understood on the assassins.  They just don't make sense for that mode in general, fun-wise or mechanics-wise.  The boost to the year 3010 was making them come too early, too.

New version: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=The_Last_Federation_Post-2.0_Release_Notes#Version_2.005
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2014, 03:13:05 PM »
Helpful option for quality of life:

In Betrayal mode: When ANYTHING attacks your property, any dispatch is interrupted so you can react to it immediately.


Another idea:

When playing pure defense, influence losses are halved. Even your enemy understands you are just trying to stay alive.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 03:15:32 PM by chemical_art »
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: TLF Version 1.900-2.005 (Tutorial And Story Touches)
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2014, 03:33:10 PM »
Playing peacefully, I still feel like I'm at a fundamental disadvantage. I need to spend time making friends, but each month I spend making friends is a month I fall behind in technology. It doesn't help I'm already behind. Similarly for planet development. I know I earn credits, but it is not nearly enough to cover the difference for both buildings and technology.

I'm still wondering how I'm supposed to get ahead. Either I put time to aid technology or my economy, but I cannot do both while the other race can. If I do diplomacy, I fall behind in both.
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