Author Topic: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)  (Read 9488 times)

Offline x4000

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Sorry for the all caps, hopefully the smiley face takes off the sting. ;)

Briefly:

1. I love that you guys are all having big discussions and so forth here in the forums, and that is wonderful.  I'm not advocating that you stop doing that, because that really helps form a sense of community and consensus.

2. However, as the devs we really don't have time to read all of those, because those are, well... discussions.  They aren't suggestions or anything concrete, they are long back and forths often covering lots of topics and points of view.  We could spend hours reading those every day, and that would seriously cut back on the amount of actual output we can give you in terms of changes.  We're not trying to be standoffish, and by all means when something needs us to come in and comment directly, please let us know and we're happy to do so.

3. That said, things that are bug reports or feature suggestions should get into mantis by some means: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/  We have some awesome helpers who have been moving things from forum posts where applicable into mantis, and that really helps.  In a lot of those cases, it follows a long discussion that then results in some degree of community consensus, and then semi-consensus is then logged into mantis for us-the-devs to look at.  That really helps productivity on our side a ton.


My ultimate goal is to be able to spend as much time available on things that add value for you, versus spending time just chatting and ruminating.  I think that's a win for everyone, so any continual help that people can provide on that front is very much appreciated!  Thank you all so much for your support, and I really file this as "one of those good problems to have," but it's still a case where we have a problem of sorting through far more feedback than any one or two humans can reasonably do while still accomplishing anything else.
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Offline Lancefighter

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2014, 09:37:31 PM »
I dont suppose TLF has uhm.. Modding support.. at all? I know with aiwar you wrote everything directly into the code or something, I suppose you did the same thing here?

Its kinda difficult to suggest balance changes without really being able to.. Youknow, playtest them. As much as I have suggested totally not gigantic balance shifts on mantis before, its still something that is hard to really say without playtesting, which I kinda assume you dont really have the time to do (based on this post).

As for other random things (like spelling TotalBiscuit's name wrong in the patchnotes.. Its TotalBiscuit no space! dont worry I fixed it) Minor things and all :D Also getting people to agree enough to make a single concise suggestion will likely be difficult, which either means you have multiple combat rebalance suggestions posted, or discussion just happens on mantis instead.. I dunno. Forums are hard.
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Offline x4000

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2014, 09:46:11 PM »
Yep, there's no modding support.  In terms of getting a consensus, I don't expect those to be 100%.  I'm not looking to have perfect solutions just handed to me or whatever. :)  But when it comes to trying to condense (literally) 10k-30k+ words per day of forum posts down to a more manageable 1k or 2k, that's really what I'm looking for.
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Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2014, 09:47:47 PM »
I assume we're encouraged to vote on TLF mantis issues as well?
If warheads can't solve it, use more warheads.

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2014, 09:51:17 PM »
Huh is it really only 20-30k words a day? I should get on that..
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Author of the Dyson Project and the Spire Gambit

Offline x4000

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2014, 10:01:02 PM »
I assume we're encouraged to vote on TLF mantis issues as well?

Absolutely!  Feel free to also comment on them to bump them, that's okay with me.

Huh is it really only 20-30k words a day? I should get on that..

I know, I was lowballing it. ;)
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Offline GC13

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2014, 10:04:39 PM »
Hey, silly Mantis-related question: why does it think that version 1.002 was released on April 19?
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline x4000

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2014, 10:10:31 PM »
Hey, silly Mantis-related question: why does it think that version 1.002 was released on April 19?
Does it show that to you?  That's odd.  It is presently logged by when I create the version item in terms of when we START working on a given version, rather than when we finish.  So that's actually always when the prior update came out, the dates are off by one.
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Offline GC13

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2014, 10:15:15 PM »
I don't think the previous days are off. 1.0 and 1.001 both show as "Released Apr 18, 2014", but 1.002 shows as "Released Apr 19, 2014".
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.

Offline x4000

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2014, 10:17:55 PM »
I don't think the previous days are off. 1.0 and 1.001 both show as "Released Apr 18, 2014", but 1.002 shows as "Released Apr 19, 2014".

Those are off, too.  1.0 shows as that because when I finished the prior version it was after midnight on the 17th, making it actually the 18th when I technically released it.  1.001, was released on the 19th, not the 18th.
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Offline topper

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2014, 10:48:31 AM »
I assume we're encouraged to vote on TLF mantis issues as well?

Absolutely!  Feel free to also comment on them to bump them, that's okay with me.

Well, if we are voting for features and top bugs... let me put in an advertisement for my requested feature that I think would be fun  :D
Implement race and player "score" and graphs!

Offline Areliae

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2014, 09:28:47 PM »
I love the game, but towards the late game it literally becomes unplayable due to the lag. Even on TB's megasystem he experienced lag as a result of a ton of unnecessary stuff and poor optimization. Perhaps a feature to disable the visual representation of each armada? That can get ridiculous and can ruin the experience for a lot of people. This type of grand strategy game should not be suffering this sort of performance issues, it is, at it's core, just a game of numbers so some more attention to the performance would be appreciated.

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2014, 11:03:42 PM »
I feel like the problems if anything are going to be cpu-side: As with any sort of heavy simulation game, the number of maths that happens tends to get rather large.

Aiwar doesnt 'lag' because it looks impressive, for instance.. it lags because calculating targets/range/ai for ten thousand ships is kinda hard.

You see the same thing with dwarf fortress.. That game doesnt even HAVE graphics, and it tends to slow down to a halt if you allow cats to get out of control.
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Offline Areliae

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 09:43:17 AM »
This math should not be a problem on any computer, it's math, it's what computers do. You don't need to calculate a bunch of stuff for 10,000 ships, you just need to add a few multipliers to a few ships which is NOT on the same level. The fact of the matter is that this game runs 10x more poorly than games that SHOULD be far more demanding. Any modern computer should be able to easily handle this type of game, but that's not the case. If the computer can run everything smoothly for the first 3/5ths of the game, I don't see the math being the reason for the lag. All I want is a way to disable the 500 moving ships on the screen, that seems unnecessary and is almost surely the cause for the lag. The calculations are not getting that much bigger, all I want is for the game to be properly optimized because I really do enjoy it.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 10:00:11 AM by Areliae »

Offline GC13

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Re: PLEASE REPORT FEEDBACK TO MANTIS IF YOU WANT US TO SEE IT! :)
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 09:45:40 AM »
The math should not be a problem on any computer, it's math, it's what computers do. The fact of the matter is that this game runs 10x more poorly than games that SHOULD be far more demanding. Any modern computer should be able to easily handle this type of game, but that's not the case.
You should try playing Crusader Kings 2. Math is very much a problem for a computer playing CK2, because of the sheer amount of math the computer is being asked to do. Games like these simulate a whole bunch of stuff, and while you can usually optimize it better that doesn't change the fact that there's still a lot to keep track of.

Now, if the armadas around one planet could be somehow lumped together as one accounting unit, I think a lot of processor time could be freed up without reducing the simulation one bit, but I don't know what kind of stuff the game is keeping track of for them.
Furthermore, it is my opinion that Hari must be destroyed.