Poll

What X things would you like Arcen to focus on first? [Updated for 1.012]

Autoresolve - Autoresolve still isn't working quite right.
3 (2.6%)
Typos - There are grammatical and spelling typos in the various texts.
1 (0.9%)
Assorted Mantis Bugs - The Mantis tracker has hundreds of small bugs of various kinds.
4 (3.4%)
Quests - Add new quests.
17 (14.7%)
RCS - Fix the enormous swings in RCS. Reduce the impact of the larger events. Return Technology and Building RCS modifers to a reasonable level.
9 (7.8%)
Events - Reduce the impact of events and add new events.
1 (0.9%)
Tooltips - Add more mechanic explanations to the tooltips.
8 (6.9%)
Race AI - Work on adding deeper Race AIs so that they do things other than declare war and declare more war.
20 (17.2%)
Player Combat - Improve Player Combat.
5 (4.3%)
Increase Information Screen Content - Add more mechanic information and adjust the layout of information screens so players can see why things happen.
10 (8.6%)
Race Fleet Combat & Planetary Attacks - Work on Fleet versus Fleet and Fleet versus Planet combat.
1 (0.9%)
Event Pausing - Add a Paradox like event pausing system.
3 (2.6%)
Player Weapons - Add more weapon options for player ship.
1 (0.9%)
Burlust Duels - Change how Burlust Duels work.
1 (0.9%)
Federation AI - Add an AI for the Federation which influences member races actions.
11 (9.5%)
Add additional information screens - Show more information and how that information is mechanically derrived
7 (6%)
Enable debug mode on compiled copies - Allow us to turn on debug mode or whatever you are using to see the mechanics of what's going on. We can help better if we can get more information.
2 (1.7%)
Recode the game nonmechanic parameters to xml files - Someone want to convince Chris/Keith to rebuild the engine from the ground up and put everything in xml files so we can mod test things
2 (1.7%)
New Features - Add cool new features that we how no idea were possible.
5 (4.3%)
Give the player more power - Increase the impact of player actions (e.g., dispatch and government deals, not quests/events/etc)
5 (4.3%)

Total Members Voted: 45

Author Topic: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]  (Read 5475 times)

Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2014, 06:41:10 PM »
if we are going to have mantised and detailed critiques of things we think are wrong with the game, is it not fair to also list the fixes and attempts to resolve those issues?
Otherwise it appears to be unbalanced, which is really misleading as many things are being done by the devs to address many of these issues.

Certainly some solutions are less than perfect, but at least let us recognize that the devs are attempting to address what the community feels they want.

Many game devs as you know wouldn't give us the time of day. 
Arcen however not only talks to us, but tries to address all our idiosyncratic requests and demands as if they are legitate concerns.
Just my opinion, you know,
-Teal


Offline lifehole

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Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2014, 06:57:12 PM »
Erm, we wouldn't be giving them feedback or organizing ourselves to this point if they didn't listen to us, we're only doing this because we recognize that they listen. This is kindof a convienence for them so they can see our consensus easily, without having to read paragraphs of text.

Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2014, 09:28:38 PM »
Erm, we wouldn't be giving them feedback or organizing ourselves to this point if they didn't listen to us, we're only doing this because we recognize that they listen. This is kindof a convienence for them so they can see our consensus easily, without having to read paragraphs of text.

Please understand this is not addressed directly to you, but so we're doing them a favor, right? so it gets us off the hook, morally speaking, conscience-wise, right?

so we've addressed point 2, what about point 1? can we list the patch note entries that address the short-comings that have been listed?  only fair, right?

-Teal

P.S.    I don't mean to sound so antagonistic. but to be fair some of the critiques are very much along the lines of  'Why aren't you making my game?'  which, although I can also understand, because I've been there done that, I still find very offensive.  anyway I guess I'm rationalizing to get myself off the hook. and the ones complaining won't care anyway.  still I guess we're all lucky, the complainers and even me...  :)

We don't have to make a game and have people griping us out, you know?  :)

-Teal




« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 10:09:26 PM by Teal_Blue »

Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2014, 01:33:29 AM »
**see end of post for 1.012 update**

**Original Post**
In the last patch update thread, Arcen asked what things we think should be fixed first. Wth the Mantis voting system, we can do things like that, however, very few use it.

Let's see if we can organize something using the forum.

You have N votes to choose from the Y issues. If this works out, we'll make these on a periodic basis or update this one depending on what works best. If you want to add an issue to future polls, suggest away. Some of these items are very vague, please specify what you mean if you pick them.

Current List I arbitrarily created.
Autoresolve - Autoresolve still isn't working quite right.
Typos - There are grammatical and spelling typos in the various texts.
Assorted Mantis Bugs - The Mantis tracker has hundreds of small bugs of various kinds.
Quests - Add new quests.
RCS - Fix the enormous swings in RCS. Add min & Max limits, and reduce the impact of the larger events.
Events - Reduce the impact of events and add new events.
Tooltips - Add more mechanic explanations to the tooltips.
Race AI - Work on adding deeper Race AIs so that they do things other than declare war and declare more war.
Player Combat - Improve Player Combat.
Information Screens - Add more mechanic information and adjust the layout of information screens so players can see why things happen.
Race Fleet Combat & Planetary Attacks - Work on Fleet versus Fleet and Fleet versus Planet combat.
Event Pausing - Add a Paradox like event pausing system.
Player Weapons - Add more weapon options for player ship.
Burlust Duels - Change how Burlust Duels work.
Federation AI - Add an AI for the Federation which influences member races actions.


Update for 1.012

Added some new options to get current trends. We had 32 voters in the previous poll which is less than 1% of the customers owning and playing the game.

The original poll results
  • Race AI - Work on adding deeper Race AIs so that they do things other than declare war and declare more war.    16 (18.6%)
  • RCS - Fix the enormous swings in RCS. Add min & Max limits, and reduce the impact of the larger events.    13 (15.1%)
  • Information Screens - Add more mechanic information and adjust the layout of information screens so players can see why things happen.    12 (14%)
  • Tooltips - Add more mechanic explanations to the tooltips.    10 (11.6%)
  • Federation AI - Add an AI for the Federation which influences member races actions.    9 (10.5%)
  • Quests - Add new quests.    7 (8.1%)
  • Assorted Mantis Bugs - The Mantis tracker has hundreds of small bugs of various kinds.    5 (5.8%)
  • Event Pausing - Add a Paradox like event pausing system.    4 (4.7%)
  • Race Fleet Combat & Planetary Attacks - Work on Fleet versus Fleet and Fleet versus Planet combat.    3 (3.5%)
  • Autoresolve - Autoresolve still isn't working quite right.    2 (2.3%)
  • Events - Reduce the impact of events and add new events.    2 (2.3%)
  • Player Combat - Improve Player Combat.    1 (1.2%)
  • Player Weapons - Add more weapon options for player ship.    1 (1.2%)
  • Burlust Duels - Change how Burlust Duels work.    1 (1.2%)
  • Typos - There are grammatical and spelling typos in the various texts.    0 (0%)

Personal opinions of what is appropriate and what is offensive aside, a list of critiques as well as attendant dev responses will provide the devs and the readers of the forum not just a listing of perceived issues, but a tally of changes and or additions to the code that attempt to address those issues.

such as -

Various rci issues - currently addressed on patches 1010 and 1011 and 1012. however a number of players feel these additions/changes only partially fix the problems or do not address the underlaying problems at the root.

player effect on overarcing simulation - attitude buildings, changes to underlaying numeric values have addressed a number of issues with regards to the simulation being overly quick in its events.  however it does not yet address the problems related to providing the player with a sense that they are able to effectively address swings in medical state, or dissuade combatants in a war to resolve their conflict.

or the greater issue of having a wider range of responses of the simulation itself to prompts. In effect not exclusively going to war or not war.  but having a range of assist, research, negotiate, compromise, come to terms with issues with the other races. such a range of reactions or behaviors to conditions and other races and player actions provide for a deeper strategic game and a less easily achieved min max solution. In addition it makes for more internal variety and replay ability in the game.

These are only a few of the areas addressed and only a few of the responses that have been summarized at this point.

Etc...

-Teal


Offline chemical_art

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Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2014, 01:51:53 AM »
a list of critiques as well as attendant dev responses will provide the devs and the readers of the forum not just a listing of perceived issues, but a tally of changes and or additions to the code that attempt to address those issues.

It does not matter what the "dev response" was...if something is still an issue...it is an issue. Giving feedback into the dev response was clouds the the issue in that dissent now has the additional responsibility of fighting the devs in addition to any other factors. This should not be so. Feedback on things to fix not should be given while considering dev response, feedback should be based on the game, nothing more.

If something is "not good", it should be known. Whether the "not good" had previous attempts to fix before does not matter if it still "not good"

I know for a fact the developers of Arcen have a thick enough skin to understand tough love is among the highest forms of love. The fact we critique at all shows we care, otherwise we would not be on this forum at all.
Life is short. Have fun.

Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2014, 02:52:06 AM »
a list of critiques as well as attendant dev responses will provide the devs and the readers of the forum not just a listing of perceived issues, but a tally of changes and or additions to the code that attempt to address those issues.

It does not matter what the "dev response" was...if something is still an issue...it is an issue. Giving feedback into the dev response was clouds the the issue in that dissent now has the additional responsibility of fighting the devs in addition to any other factors. This should not be so. Feedback on things to fix not should be given while considering dev response, feedback should be based on the game, nothing more.

If something is "not good", it should be known. Whether the "not good" had previous attempts to fix before does not matter if it still "not good"

I know for a fact the developers of Arcen have a thick enough skin to understand tough love is among the highest forms of love. The fact we critique at all shows we care, otherwise we would not be on this forum at all.

Jeez Chemical,  how many people do I have to argue with?  I am not saying everyone has to be polite, because we all seem mentally challenged there.  and 'dev response' doesn't mean they talked about it. It means they coded a change or an addition to try to resolve that issue. If we have BOTH listed, then we keep a running tally of which issues are addressed to the communities expectations and which have yet to be looked at.  It provides a comprehensive summary of where we are right now. instead of some regurgitation of perceived inadaquacies.

how many times do I have to say we need both, and listen to everyone's opinion snarkily espoused before someone decides that having another opinion is ok and we don't have to internet flame and burn them for it?

-Teal




Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2014, 03:36:24 AM »
It is miss and not sir, and you win, all bs aside. Last one posts has the superior position, yes?
So post what you like. I am tired of arguing with you.

-Teal



Offline Mick

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Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2014, 06:04:39 AM »

    • Some examples: Stardock's Elemental. The beta testing community told them from the beginning the game wasn't ready. They released anyway. Elemental tanked and the community became bitter. Kerebros's Sword of the Stars 2. The beta testing community told them from the begining the game wasn't ready. They released anyway. SotS2 tanked and the community became bitter. Amplitude's Endless Space and Disharmony. The community told them the mechanics were wrong, the game fizzled out. The community became bitter.
    • I'm not sure I have any good examples actually. Paradox or Ironforge perhaps?

    Stardock's Elemental... Dark times. That game had so much promise. But I remember the problem a bit differently. A lot of complaints had to go through fanboy armor. Fanboys defend the developers like every design choice is a word of God. And while developers certainly have the final decision about their games, they are not worthy of forming a religion around. Stardock weighed the fanboy opinion over the critical opinion and got burned. It's a dynamic I see far too often (it's starting to form more strongly over at Paradox as of late).

    You don't think your drawing deserves to go into the Louvre because your mom puts it on the refrigerator. Having too many fanboys is like having hundreds or thousands of moms putting your work on the refrigerator. Treat fanboy feedback like mom feedback.

    Incidentally, Mother's Day is soon so do something nice for your mom.

    Offline Histidine

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    Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
    « Reply #38 on: May 05, 2014, 07:51:42 AM »
    I'm not sure I want to read closely enough to understand that argument up there...

    IMO the only function this thread needs to serve is identifying what people consider to be the most pressing extant issues. Everything else - what causes the problems, what exactly should be done, whether already-implemented solutions that have proven to be insufficient - is details that can be established after the fact.

    On that note, why is "information screens" listed twice?

    Offline lifehole

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    Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
    « Reply #39 on: May 05, 2014, 08:20:08 AM »
    I'm not sure I want to read closely enough to understand that argument up there...

    IMO the only function this thread needs to serve is identifying what people consider to be the most pressing extant issues. Everything else - what causes the problems, what exactly should be done, whether already-implemented solutions that have proven to be insufficient - is details that can be established after the fact.

    On that note, why is "information screens" listed twice?

    I think one is for changing the UI to be more intuitive, and the other is changing the amount of information shown. Accessibility and transparency.

    Offline Misery

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    Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
    « Reply #40 on: May 05, 2014, 08:39:47 AM »
    Ok.... whoa.

    What the heck happened here?

    I popped off for a day or two and come back to what is to me a big and bloody pointless arguement.

    Gonna sum up my own thoughts on this pretty quick.... or what counts as "quick" in terms of my typical long-winded rambling.

    First of all, we're all here because of three things.  1, for the most part we're all fans of Arcen as a whole.  There may be some that have only played this one game so far, and maybe dont really consider themselves fans yet, but I think for the majority of us this is generally the case.  2. We're here because we like this game.  Not because of anything negative.  Even if it's imperfect.... as pretty much every game ever is... we still like it. We want to see it succeed.  And 3, which builds offa that, we want to help the process along.  We're not the devs, but we can still do something to help grow and polish this game.  This is the reason why this, and many other topics exist.

    All of those are positive things, simply put.  There's nothing negative about what anyone wants here.

    That being said, one thing I've learned in God only knows how many total hours of testing & similar tasks I've done (and I've done way more than just with Arcen's stuff) is that in order to provide feedback that is actually of use, you have to provide feedback that is truly HONEST.  No exceptions to this rule.  You must not just say things to try to sound positive, if saying it that way also makes it somewhat of an untruth.   Even if what you need to give as feedback sounds pretty harsh, if it's your honest thoughts on the matter, you need to give it that way, AND spell it out in detail. It can be hard and unpleasant to do this, but you need to do it anyway.

    I usually try to always be polite to everyone, but I dont hesitate for a second to let my natural negativity show whenever something is bothering me.  Hell, many times through development of each of Arcen's games, inevitably there'll come a point when I get overly aggravated, and even though I hate doing it, I *will* declare vocally on here (and usually in too many words) that I've stopped playing said game until such-and-such aggravating thing gets fixed.  It's a harsh thing to say, but it's an honest form of feedback that goes along with the way I do things.  And typically, such-and-such thing always does get fixed in the end, which seems to usually be the case in testing, not just with Arcen.   And then everything is good. Nobody gets hurt by a harsh statement like that... it simply shows the magnitude of the effect that something or other is having on the player in question.

    If something is bothering you, say so... if it's bothering you ALOT, say that too.  And then explain just what it is in detail.  It's a GOOD form of feedback... never a bad form.  We're not being antagonizing by doing this.  Any feedback that isnt completely honest, in an attempt to seem more friendly or happier or to defend the developer or whatever is bloody useless.  And that's the worst sort of thing you can give them, period.  Development is partly a learning process, and both positive AND negative types are necessary for that to work.

    So there's nothing offensive, or genuinely mean or whatever, happening here... simple as that.


    .....besides, I think the devs here are rather used to many of us and our varied personalities by now to know that we mean no offense.  I know they sure seem to put up with me well enough, at least.  Probably the case for everyone here.




      • Some examples: Stardock's Elemental. The beta testing community told them from the beginning the game wasn't ready. They released anyway. Elemental tanked and the community became bitter. Kerebros's Sword of the Stars 2. The beta testing community told them from the begining the game wasn't ready. They released anyway. SotS2 tanked and the community became bitter. Amplitude's Endless Space and Disharmony. The community told them the mechanics were wrong, the game fizzled out. The community became bitter.
      • I'm not sure I have any good examples actually. Paradox or Ironforge perhaps?

      Stardock's Elemental... Dark times. That game had so much promise. But I remember the problem a bit differently. A lot of complaints had to go through fanboy armor. Fanboys defend the developers like every design choice is a word of God. And while developers certainly have the final decision about their games, they are not worthy of forming a religion around. Stardock weighed the fanboy opinion over the critical opinion and got burned. It's a dynamic I see far too often (it's starting to form more strongly over at Paradox as of late).

      You don't think your drawing deserves to go into the Louvre because your mom puts it on the refrigerator. Having too many fanboys is like having hundreds or thousands of moms putting your work on the refrigerator. Treat fanboy feedback like mom feedback.

      Incidentally, Mother's Day is soon so do something nice for your mom.

      Oh yeah, Elemental was.... bad.  Everything was just bad.  Definitely an example of everything going wrong.


      At least, for Stardock, the NEXT game in that series, Elemental: Fallen Enchantress, was everything that Elemental was supposed to be.  The expansion to it made it even better.  It's very worth checking out if you havent yet.  Great 4x game. Painful learning curve though.[/list]
      « Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 08:44:30 AM by Misery »

      Offline Misery

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      Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
      « Reply #41 on: May 05, 2014, 08:43:40 AM »
      Oh, and before I forget:  as for the actual TOPIC here, the main thing I currently want to see is the length of events shortened.  As I mentioned on Mantis, 400 months just to find doctors is.... silly.  Same for most of the other events.  WAY too long.   There's a whole pile of reasons why shortening them would be better.

      Offline topper

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      Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
      « Reply #42 on: May 05, 2014, 10:06:53 AM »
      Hi ptarth, thanks for making these polls.

      I would like to be able to see what the previous poll results were to compare to the patch notes. Would you be willing to make a new thread for each new poll? Perhaps you could take nominations for items at the end of the current poll and then turn that into a new thread once in a while?

      Perhaps a thread title change would be appropriate too since many of the items are more features/suggestions vs "fixes". Something like "Highest priority fixes/features poll (1.0xx)"

      Offline Mick

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      Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
      « Reply #43 on: May 05, 2014, 10:19:08 AM »
      I second the idea to create a new thread for a new poll. It's nice to see the historical results, and it's less confusing too.

      Offline lifehole

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      Re: Highest Priority Fix [Updated for 1.012]
      « Reply #44 on: May 05, 2014, 11:01:55 AM »
      I third the idea.