Arcen Games

Games => Starward Rogue => Topic started by: steelwing on January 22, 2016, 10:18:48 PM

Title: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: steelwing on January 22, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Arcen, this game is your usual bang-up job. :)
The bullet patterns are wonderfully challenging to dance through, especially with the bosses.  I can tell I should expect to die a lot with this game.  :)
And the music...The bosses I've fought feel like the music was specifically paired with them.
My one complaint so far is I can't make it past the first level of the Megalith, 'cuz I get killed by the bosses every time.  Even on Easy.  >:(
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Cyborg on January 23, 2016, 12:30:08 AM
Arcen, this game is your usual bang-up job. :)
The bullet patterns are wonderfully challenging to dance through, especially with the bosses.  I can tell I should expect to die a lot with this game.  :)
And the music...The bosses I've fought feel like the music was specifically paired with them.
My one complaint so far is I can't make it past the first level of the Megalith, 'cuz I get killed by the bosses every time.  Even on Easy.  >:(

I can't get past the tutorial because it's too hard, so don't feel bad. Still really fun though.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: steelwing on January 23, 2016, 12:36:33 AM
The "Main Menu" button on the Stats screen doesn't seem to work for me.  I've got a bug report in Mantis for it.

I can't get past the tutorial because it's too hard, so don't feel bad. Still really fun though.
That's impressive.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: crazyroosterman on January 23, 2016, 01:06:47 AM
The "Main Menu" button on the Stats screen doesn't seem to work for me.  I've got a bug report in Mantis for it.

I can't get past the tutorial because it's too hard, so don't feel bad. Still really fun though.
That's impressive.
at least I know somebody's worse at this game than I am.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Misery on January 23, 2016, 07:02:08 AM
I'm going to ask the same question I ask every time:

Is there something specific that's killing you alot?  Any one boss or enemy that seems to be just wrecking you every time you meet it?

I just want to be as bloody certain as possible that none of them are somehow broken or appearing in the wrong places.   They dont always behave as well as I'd like.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: ptarth on January 23, 2016, 07:19:14 AM
XML. I keep getting killed by the XML. Today I spent probably an hour only to realize that <bulletpattern> should have been <bullet_pattern>. That and trying to figure out why my shot are doing weird things with angular rotation when I'm having them rotate around another shot. Oh and Blaze Turrets. I hate those guys.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Misery on January 23, 2016, 07:26:48 AM
XML. I keep getting killed by the XML. Today I spent probably an hour only to realize that <bulletpattern> should have been <bullet_pattern>. That and trying to figure out why my shot are doing weird things with angular rotation when I'm having them rotate around another shot.

Ah, yes, I've died to the evil of the XML more times than I can count.  Nasty opponent, that one.


Quote
Oh and Blaze Turrets. I hate those guys.

So those are working as intended, then, that's good to know.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Cinth on January 23, 2016, 07:38:51 AM
I'm reading the XML stuff on the wiki and am having a hard time willing myself to start trying to make anything.  I got a mech and boss idea I'd like to try and do, but this stuff scares the sht out of me.

Making rooms is a million times easier...
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Misery on January 23, 2016, 08:50:12 AM
I'm reading the XML stuff on the wiki and am having a hard time willing myself to start trying to make anything.  I got a mech and boss idea I'd like to try and do, but this stuff scares the sht out of me.

Making rooms is a million times easier...

The fun part is when you write up the XML stuff, go to test it, and get a horrible blob of red gibberish as an error.  Though that's gotten better over time, but even with simple errors sometimes it takes absolutely freaking forever to track it down.  Particularly with the way the files are structured.  Any given enemy or boss is split across four seperate files which all need to be hooked together properly or it falls apart.  So sometimes it's hard to even figure out which damn file the problem is in.  THAT gets annoying really fast.

It was alot worse in TLF though.  At that point, there were no simple errors.  Full-page gibberish EVERY time something went wrong.  Even for one typo it would spit out like 40 lines of totally nonsensical red text that could mean anything at all.  Sooooooooooo much easier this time around, they improved the error reporting a whole lot.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Cinth on January 23, 2016, 08:59:24 AM
Problem is that I have some experience in bashing lines of text together to make semifunctional programs (college coursework).  I know how it is supposed to work and I understood a lot of what was on the wiki.  I just can't functionally write it in a time efficient manner (I'm 4x as slow as my classmates on average).

I'm actually a better debugger than a coder and a better troubleshooter than an engineer (not saying I'm an engineer).
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Misery on January 23, 2016, 09:12:24 AM
Problem is that I have some experience in bashing lines of text together to make semifunctional programs (college coursework).  I know how it is supposed to work and I understood a lot of what was on the wiki.  I just can't functionally write it in a time efficient manner (I'm 4x as slow as my classmates on average).

I'm actually a better debugger than a coder and a better troubleshooter than an engineer (not saying I'm an engineer).

One thing that helps ALOT is to understand how systems work.  Not everything requires a hyper-complicated blob of text that directly controls the bullets.

Something like Vestige, for example.  If I recall correctly, it actually has no bullet code.  Partway through development, I found ways to create complicated effects via system settings alone, and it's MUCH more efficient to do that when possible.  Even Centrifuge is almost entirely system-controlled (though, for that one, it's still convoluted).  As opposed to the hideous mess that is the structure and patterns for the earliest bosses such as Battleswarm.

Of course this doesnt work for everything;  the Warden for example, I would have had a very hard time making that second pattern via that method.  And you cant make curving or scaled bullets that way.   But lots and lots of complicated-as-hell things can be done that way, if you can figure it out.   That each system is controlled by a very small amount of text helps a ton.

Of course, that's all for the actual bullet stuff.  I cant vouch for things like the mechs themselves or items.  I've not seen the code for any of that.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Cinth on January 23, 2016, 09:33:26 AM
My boss idea isn't that massive or scary like your stuff.  It's kinda like Mission in a way but with a second part that would need some figuring out.

If you think back to some really old side scrolling SHUMPS you might can see where I'm getting part one.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Vacuity on January 23, 2016, 11:59:17 AM
Err, if I can switch back to the original topic: thanks for this!  I just purchased and hopefully I'll have some time to try it out this weekend.  Chinese New Year's coming up soon in any case, so I'm sure I'll find some time before mid-February, right?  Right.  I can do it.

Looking forward to whatever the next excuse is for me to give you money.  :D
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: steelwing on January 23, 2016, 01:55:27 PM
I'm going to ask the same question I ask every time:

Is there something specific that's killing you alot?  Any one boss or enemy that seems to be just wrecking you every time you meet it?

I just want to be as bloody certain as possible that none of them are somehow broken or appearing in the wrong places.   They dont always behave as well as I'd like.
I've only made it to two bosses so far, which are Mirror and Crystal Mother.  The third part of Crystal Mother's pattern (with the wide green chevron) goes on forever and leaves me trapped in a corner while trying to avoid it, so I can't do any damage.  For Mirror, the pattern gets too tight where I can't avoid it.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Mánagarmr on January 23, 2016, 01:58:29 PM
Maybe I'm just good at these kinds of games, or I'm playing on too easy (Normal), but I don't really find it that difficult so far. Managed to clear two bosses (Mirror and Crystal Mother) without getting hit.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Cinth on January 23, 2016, 02:10:34 PM
I'm going to ask the same question I ask every time:

Is there something specific that's killing you alot?  Any one boss or enemy that seems to be just wrecking you every time you meet it?

I just want to be as bloody certain as possible that none of them are somehow broken or appearing in the wrong places.   They dont always behave as well as I'd like.
I've only made it to two bosses so far, which are Mirror and Crystal Mother.  The third part of Crystal Mother's pattern (with the wide green chevron) goes on forever and leaves me trapped in a corner while trying to avoid it, so I can't do any damage.  For Mirror, the pattern gets too tight where I can't avoid it.

Use your Walk Slow!  It will help you dodge a lot better for small stuff.  Also watch the projectiles coming in, not the boss ;).
Mirror:  Pretty much can stand about 2-3 tiles from the boss during P1.  I tend to use the area centered on the boss and a bit up and down.  Aim in the bosses general direction and just watch the projectiles.  There is one targeted one you can easily dodge and the bouncing rays you can be in close enough to not worry about most of the time.  P2 I move up and stay in the upper area, about as far away as I was in P1.  Still dodge the aimed shot and position where the bouncing rays don't bother me. 

Crystal Mother:  Stay in closer, about halfway between the island blocks and the boss.  Sprint around the green wave to get safe.  Walk around everything else. 

Maybe I'm just good at these kinds of games, or I'm playing on too easy (Normal), but I don't really find it that difficult so far. Managed to clear two bosses (Mirror and Crystal Mother) without getting hit.

Hard mode awaits you then.  Normal should be cleared by everyone with time and practice.  Not everyone plays this kind of game (I certainly didn't play these much).
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Misery on January 23, 2016, 02:20:12 PM
I would say, wait until you've fought and defeated Terminus and it's guardians at least once before moving to Hard.  There's already a difficulty spike in the floors after the Warden, and Hard mode might be harder even than that right from the start.  And then the same difficulty spike in the later floors exists in that, except worse.

Hard mode is meant for those that have mastered Normal, and it sort of assumes that you're going into it with alot of experience with the game.  It is likely to continue to get a bit harder, as I'm probably going to add some more stuff to it.

That all being said, Crystal Mother and Mirror (particularly Mirror) are a couple of the easiest bosses.  They make for a good warm-up for later stuff.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Cyborg on January 23, 2016, 05:13:13 PM
I'm going to ask the same question I ask every time:

Is there something specific that's killing you alot?  Any one boss or enemy that seems to be just wrecking you every time you meet it?

I just want to be as bloody certain as possible that none of them are somehow broken or appearing in the wrong places.   They dont always behave as well as I'd like.

There are some rooms where there are these enemies that attach to your ship. I feel like I have nowhere to go, and I just get clobbered. Other than that, I'm probably just clumsy about dodging bullets. I don't expect you to fix it for me, I know very well that I'm on the very low end of the skill spectrum for these games.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Misery on January 23, 2016, 05:18:48 PM
I'm going to ask the same question I ask every time:

Is there something specific that's killing you alot?  Any one boss or enemy that seems to be just wrecking you every time you meet it?

I just want to be as bloody certain as possible that none of them are somehow broken or appearing in the wrong places.   They dont always behave as well as I'd like.

There are some rooms where there are these enemies that attach to your ship. I feel like I have nowhere to go, and I just get clobbered. Other than that, I'm probably just clumsy about dodging bullets. I don't expect you to fix it for me, I know very well that I'm on the very low end of the skill spectrum for these games.

Well, I ask also because I want to make sure that Normal difficulty and the two below it are well balanced for everyone; they're not meant to be hyper difficult and some enemies were added very late, close to release, so may need some tweaks yet.  The enemies that attach though you just gotta notice them and back away.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: ptarth on January 23, 2016, 06:07:53 PM
On a design basis, I feel like Misery likes to have complex patterns that are solved using micro-movements, he sorts waltzes around. This is in contrast to my preferred plan of dive bombing: staying at a safe distance until there is an opening, diving in, and then pulling out after my shot.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Misery on January 23, 2016, 06:48:26 PM
On a design basis, I feel like Misery likes to have complex patterns that are solved using micro-movements, he sorts waltzes around. This is in contrast to my preferred plan of dive bombing: staying at a safe distance until there is an opening, diving in, and then pulling out after my shot.

Actually despite the patterns I tend to just rush at everything.  I use the sprint button ALOT.  Even during something like the Warden's 4th pattern, the spinning one; I'm impatient about the shield, and walking is slow, so I run there.

I do this in actual bullet-hell games too when given the chance; I absolutely will just leap directly in something's face and shove lasers up it's nose.  That it's firing 10000 bullets at me doesnt matter, I'll bloody well do it anyway.

This might explain why I'll occaisionally do things like ram stationary bosses, which works about as well as it sounds.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: keith.lamothe on January 23, 2016, 06:53:06 PM
I just hope I get a good "adds shots to main gun" attachment like the Destruction Module or whatever it's called, then pick whatever buffs I can for damage and reload speed, and after that my strategy is one word:

Rambo.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Misery on January 23, 2016, 06:58:22 PM
I approve of that strategy.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: keith.lamothe on January 23, 2016, 07:01:13 PM
I don't expect you to fix it for me, I know very well that I'm on the very low end of the skill spectrum for these games.
That may be the case, but have you tried using the Redshift mech? Basically time doesn't pass unless you're moving or holding down a firing button, so you can think about where you want to move.

You have extremely low HP on that mech, as balancing, but if it's more fun for you it's easy to mod that in RuntimeData/Configuration/GameEntity/CMP_PlayerHulls.xml , though that one could get overwritten by future patches.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: FroBodine on January 23, 2016, 08:01:39 PM
Maybe I'm just good at these kinds of games, or I'm playing on too easy (Normal), but I don't really find it that difficult so far. Managed to clear two bosses (Mirror and Crystal Mother) without getting hit.

Well, I'm the exact opposite.  I am having an absolute blast, but I still haven't gotten out of the first level.

I love this game!
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Cyborg on January 23, 2016, 08:51:17 PM
I don't expect you to fix it for me, I know very well that I'm on the very low end of the skill spectrum for these games.
That may be the case, but have you tried using the Redshift mech? Basically time doesn't pass unless you're moving or holding down a firing button, so you can think about where you want to move.

You have extremely low HP on that mech, as balancing, but if it's more fun for you it's easy to mod that in RuntimeData/Configuration/GameEntity/CMP_PlayerHulls.xml , though that one could get overwritten by future patches.

I think I'm doing better with the red one, not past the first floor yet. Probably need to add the HP. Question, how do you pick up health packs? I find that my e option doesn't always work with the red machine.

Also, how do you access items that are behind seemingly unbreakable grey blocks?
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: keith.lamothe on January 23, 2016, 09:09:53 PM
Question, how do you pick up health packs? I find that my e option doesn't always work with the red machine.
By "health packs" do you mean the orange plus-sign like things? They should be picked up automatically by walking over them, if you aren't at max health.

If you mean something that isn't auto-pickup, E should work, though you may need to press and hold a button that makes time advance, then press E while holding that, since the pickup logic isn't checked while time is stopped.

Quote
Also, how do you access items that are behind seemingly unbreakable grey blocks?
Depends on what kind of grey block, as there is an indestructible kind. But if the room designer put items back there it's probably just bombable blocks, which you can destroy via missile (spacebar).
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Matruchus on January 23, 2016, 09:53:52 PM
Mirror Mark 1 at the moment is the easiest boss to beat since there are only a few bullets to dodge and those lines that encircle you are all that you need to watch for. Managed to get a perfect clear on Battleswarm and Mirror Mark 1 till now. Always get hit by one bullet from Crystal Mother :)
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: TheVampire100 on January 23, 2016, 09:56:28 PM
I find Battlesawrm easier to be honest. I can already predict where the bullets will come, more so since the change of sprites where the arrows show you, where the swarm will spawn.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: NichG on January 24, 2016, 12:00:00 AM
Normally this kind of game wouldn't really be my thing, but... Redshift. Completely spot on nails it for me.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: keith.lamothe on January 24, 2016, 01:03:52 AM
Normally this kind of game wouldn't really be my thing, but... Redshift. Completely spot on nails it for me.
Yea, we're really happy we were able to make that mechanic work. There's something sublime about weaving effortlessly through the densest of patterns.

It's still quite easy to mess up, but it's not nearly as much because of reflexes.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: crazyroosterman on January 24, 2016, 01:06:46 AM
my favorite i think is green envy blue one is my second favorite followed by redshift then followed by the one that lays mines the others are good but i dont personaly like them(i hated the crap range on flame  tank and i spent so long playing white gloss for obvious reasons that I'm sick of him nothing personal there) but does any one think that wine layers a bit weak sauce? most of the time i have to work way to hard to make the mines usefull(and on most of the boss fights there shite) and gravity missle does more harm than good for me most of the time?.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: steelwing on January 24, 2016, 04:13:39 AM
I actually managed to reach the 2nd floor on a run today, but Crystal Mother slaughtered me.  That green wave attack of hers is murder.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: KillerofGods on January 24, 2016, 04:45:45 AM
Easy seems like it is too easy but normal is actually pretty hard for me. I've managed to get to the floor boss of level 4 but then I met uhh idr maybe it was Terminus? (It had that color scheme to it iirc.)

Damn it was hard there were bullets... bullets everywhere. It'll take me a couple fights to get it's patterns down and what I should be doing (assuming I meet it often enough.) It ended a nice run I had going to QQ! :P
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Cinth on January 24, 2016, 04:48:24 AM
Couldn't have been Terminus.  That one shouldn't be spawning that early in a run.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: KillerofGods on January 24, 2016, 05:45:01 AM
Was Lady Staccato I got her again I just guessed Terminus since I had that steam card and the color scheme looked simillar to the card I think (there were too many bullets for me to pay attention :P.)

Got her again on floor 4 again and I decided to just use missiles as I always forget those can be used in combat as I always use them up for health shards :P. So now I'm on floor 5 and gotta hope for the best.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Cinth on January 24, 2016, 06:12:31 AM
 ;)  Good Luck!
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: crazyroosterman on January 24, 2016, 02:07:30 PM
I guess its just me then who thinks its underpowered then? and yea good luck with that on my current run I think I'm either on floor 4 or 5 cant remember which.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: Misery on January 24, 2016, 02:43:15 PM
I guess its just me then who thinks its underpowered then? and yea good luck with that on my current run I think I'm either on floor 4 or 5 cant remember which.

It's not really underpowered.... but it is hard to use.

Powerful but with downsides, I'd say.  Use it well and it can be really good; make a mistake with it and you'll eat a pile of bullets you otherwise wouldnt have.
Title: Re: Well done, Arcen.
Post by: crazyroosterman on January 24, 2016, 04:35:14 PM
I guess its just me then who thinks its underpowered then? and yea good luck with that on my current run I think I'm either on floor 4 or 5 cant remember which.

It's not really underpowered.... but it is hard to use.

Powerful but with downsides, I'd say.  Use it well and it can be really good; make a mistake with it and you'll eat a pile of bullets you otherwise wouldnt have.
still it seems more work than its worth really to me granted I can see the gravity missiles worth ill probably have enougher go at it in my next run.(in my last run I FINALLY got to the warden shortly died after words but hey its a start)