Author Topic: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not  (Read 4907 times)

Offline Misery

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2015, 12:49:37 PM »
After reading that, I'd just like to say, I'm going to call Rogue Legacy a "castle intrusion upgrade game" from now on.

Offline x4000

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2015, 12:54:34 PM »
I do use genre as sort of a basic early partial-filter.  If something comes up with certain genres or tags then I'm automatically less interested; but with others it will get me to take a slightly closer look.  I do enough of a look in either case to satisfy myself I don't want the game, or really look into it more to see that I do.  But I'm not sure how typical I am.

After reading that, I'd just like to say, I'm going to call Rogue Legacy a "castle intrusion upgrade game" from now on.

Ahahaha. :)
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Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2015, 02:38:56 PM »
I do use genre as sort of a basic early partial-filter.  If something comes up with certain genres or tags then I'm automatically less interested; but with others it will get me to take a slightly closer look.  I do enough of a look in either case to satisfy myself I don't want the game, or really look into it more to see that I do.  But I'm not sure how typical I am.

After reading that, I'd just like to say, I'm going to call Rogue Legacy a "castle intrusion upgrade game" from now on.

Ahahaha. :)
the only tag which honestly makes me avoid a game is the early access tag unless I know its finished enough to be worth buying outside the novelty of being involved in the games development.(like bro force for instance which is meant to be realising this year yippee!)
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Offline tombik

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2015, 02:41:19 PM »
After reading that, I'd just like to say, I'm going to call Rogue Legacy a "castle intrusion upgrade game" from now on.
+1 on that.

Thanks for detailed reply Chris, I am sad for causing you to lose time :)

Still, I strongly believe that, if we categorize a game which does not have first person camera as FPS, on the pretense that "but it has all the OTHER things", this is not a good place to stand as an industry.

And no, looking through all games to eliminate for tastes without help of tags is not efficient. There are 5000 games on steam now, and indies have even less visibility.

Offline Captain Jack

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2015, 03:33:19 PM »

Still, I strongly believe that, if we categorize a game which does not have first person camera as FPS, on the pretense that "but it has all the OTHER things", this is not a good place to stand as an industry.
...But the FPSes genre is defined by the perspective, not the content. You'd have a better argument if you talked about "shooters" and how the genre's been adapted to MMOs (Gun) and RPGs (Alpha Protocol).

The problem is that the defining characteristic of the roguelike is permadeath and randomly generated levels. Unless that changes people will keep calling games with those mechaics roguelikes. RPGs are defined by experience points and level ups in the same way. (Just to be clear this isn't an invitation for you to explain exactly what a roguelike needs to be. I read your explanation already)

I think there's a much better reason to not call the game a roguelike. The genre was very popular just a few years ago so developers made a lot of them, which led to a lot of talking about them. The genre's popularity has cooled since then, meaning there's a small backlash against media coverage of all but the biggest games with stated Rogue influences, even though people still like playing all kinds of games with those elements. Not using the roguelike label could mean extra work to raise awareness though; it still a stronger genre than twin-stick shooter or shmup ever have been.

Offline wwwhhattt

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2015, 10:26:16 AM »
I think there's a much better reason to not call the game a roguelike. The genre was very popular just a few years ago so developers made a lot of them, which led to a lot of talking about them. The genre's popularity has cooled since then, meaning there's a small backlash against media coverage of all but the biggest games with stated Rogue influences, even though people still like playing all kinds of games with those elements. Not using the roguelike label could mean extra work to raise awareness though; it still a stronger genre than twin-stick shooter or shmup ever have been.
Very much this - at least I always start to phase out whenever I read the word (even though some of them turned out to be among my favourite games). Still beats 'hardcore retro whatever' mind.

Offline Billick

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2015, 02:13:37 PM »
I like the term "procedural death labyrinth" .

Offline tbrass

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2015, 06:53:38 PM »
Still beats 'hardcore retro whatever' mind.

retro just means pixelated graphics, right?

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2015, 07:32:34 PM »
Still beats 'hardcore retro whatever' mind.

retro just means pixelated graphics, right?
how pixellated? :P

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2015, 08:34:47 PM »
I'll just sick in here to say that there exists a genre of game that is wholly defined by its camera angle.

Offline Tridus

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2015, 10:16:37 PM »
I'll just sick in here to say that there exists a genre of game that is wholly defined by its camera angle.

Well, they tend to categorize things a bit more than that. Skyrim, Tomb Raider, and Call of Duty are not the same genre despite sharing that camera angle.

But really, lots of genre barriers make little sense. RTS just means real time strategy, but MOBA is a different genre despite being realtime, strategic, and birthed out of an RTS. Thus, RTS also has to mean "strategy where you control lots of stuff". TBS is the same thing only turn based, and yet lots of people wouldn't call an online chess game a TBS (despite that being exactly what it is).

It's a pretty pointless argument.

Offline Misery

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2015, 12:35:13 AM »
I like the term "procedural death labyrinth" .


How about "randomized explosion factory?"

Or at least that's what I would call it, because how could I not?

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2015, 02:33:03 AM »
No offense meant, Chris, but people need to stop using the term Roguelike when referring to games that don't occupy the same design space as Stone Soup, NetHack, ToME, Angband, etc. It's getting to the point where the term is beginning to lose all meaning as a strong descriptor and that when developers use the term, it says very little to the potential customer about the style/genre of the game. If you mean permadeath with high levels of randomness, say that. That alone isn't really a genre.

I realize there are 'rogue purists' out there stomping out the whole "this isn't a rogue or rogue-lite or rogue-like' thing. But lets face it, the term means much broader things than it did before. And if you want to quickly communicate some fundamental ideas, rogue-like is a legitimate one and that while not adhering to the strict sense of the term, is still a useful broad descriptor.

W'ere sorry us 'casuals' have hijacked the term but it is what it is. And youc ant blame people for using it in its new colloquial use, rather than its previous strict purist interpretation
Until someone else replies, I'll just leave the quote here from another topic.

This.

Language evolves. Diablo-like has become ARPG now. RPG more or less means "any game in which units / character have an XP bar and levels". Which is kind of silly because it means "Role-playing games" and neither role, nor playing nor game indicates XP bar and levels. But that's what it means now. Strategy is also used for games where you lead a team of 3-4 units.

Also, purists stating it's not a rogue-like while it is by the commonly accepted definition generate traffic which is good for indirect publicity.

Therefore, Chris, if it has any rogue-like elements at all, and XP bars, IMO you should feel free to call it a SHMUP ROGUE-LIKE WITH RPG ELEMENTS. or even something fancier  >D.

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2015, 02:36:55 AM »
Call it a real-time metaphor on the impermanence of consciousness.
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Offline Captain Jack

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Re: Please Not Market This As A Roguelike If It Is Not
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2015, 03:20:42 AM »
Call it a real-time metaphor on the impermanence of consciousness.
Goddamn it, between this and the book I'm reading it's like I'm back in philosophy class.