Author Topic: Maybe traps should deal more damage, and perhaps even damage through shield?  (Read 665 times)

Offline Professor Paul1290

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Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I feel like traps should deal more damage and perhaps should even go through shields.

They're often used as obstacles in "puzzle rooms" which makes the ability to "take damage and pass" rather detrimental to those rooms.

The traps in this game (unless there are "invisible" ones still coming) are always clearly visible threats that are supposed to be seen by the player the moment they enter the room, they're not the sort of thing that "emerges" into play out of an enemy or another trap.
I don't think taking instant significant health damage from a trap would feel "unfair" because in most cases a player has to make a clear mistake in order to take damage from them.

There's also sort of an existing game convention/trope of visible traps doing more damage than mobile enemies, so a lot of players already expect traps to be very painful.
(Again, can't speak for everyone, but I actually found it surprising that didn't take that much damage when I first walked over spikes and ran into a beam)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 05:56:50 PM by Professor Paul1290 »

Offline Nargasse

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Argh, i hate traps. I don't think the main issue about traps are the damages, but the interactions between traps and the shields. In most rooms with only traps, you can just use the shields, take the loot and go away, it's clearly a problem. But i don't think making the traps bypass the shields may be a solution, because in situations where you have both traps and enemies, i often end up running into traps because i'm too focused on dodging bullets. Taking some damages from something you had to see is frustrating enough, and making traps more deadly will just make trap-maze more frustrating.
But still, room with only traps are still a big issue, as you can even go out and back into the room to fill up shields, and run into the traps again. I was suggesting to make the shields only be filled when you kill the last enemy of a room, but i guess making traps damages go trough the shields may also be a fair solution. But boosting damages will definitely just make mistakes more frustrating, without resolving the true problem.

Offline Professor Paul1290

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Argh, i hate traps. I don't think the main issue about traps are the damages, but the interactions between traps and the shields. In most rooms with only traps, you can just use the shields, take the loot and go away, it's clearly a problem.

Ok, I agree with "trap interactions with shields" being closer to the "main issue" than the actual damages and that it should take priority.

However, I'm either really disagreeing with or severely misinterpreting much of what comes afterwards.


But i don't think making the traps bypass the shields may be a solution, because in situations where you have both traps and enemies, i often end up running into traps because i'm too focused on dodging bullets.

Why is that a problem? Isn't that kind of the point mixing of trap-filled environments and combat?
Is dying to a trap somehow inherently "worse" than dying to enemy fire?

Alternatively, is the problem really that taking more damage (trap or enemy) might increase the difficulty in an undesirable way?


Taking some damages from something you had to see is frustrating enough, and making traps more deadly will just make trap-maze more frustrating.

Ok I'm really not understanding this one because "damage from things you had to see" strikes me as the least frustrating category of damage provided you can do something about it (which in this case seems to be a given thus far).

Are there cases where you cannot reasonably take action to prevent the damage?
Alternatively, is the problem here more about "trap-mazes"?


I was suggesting to make the shields only be filled when you kill the last enemy of a room,

I guess technically this works, but it kind of strikes me less intuitive than treating traps as a different damage type (which is something that already exists often enough).
That said it's not too far out there, I've certainly played action games with weirder.

Offline zharmad

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I would also disagree, due to two things:
- the controls are chaotic/too sensitive on the keyboard and mouse setup. You can't guarantee pixel accuracy, and therefore you can't guarantee trap avoidance.
- the hitbox of the caltrops is currently the entire square, this means any clipping of the mech will damage the player. The mech being almost one tile itself, this leave only a few pixels of wiggle room in one tile areas.

Both of these would need to be changed in order for your suggestion to be desirable (to me).

Offline Misery

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This bit likely isnt changing.

There's one huge reason for it:  Having some very specific thing go through shields, while others do not, isnt exactly intuitive, and from a logic standpoint, doesnt really make any sense.  I'd prefer to avoid moments like that in this game.  Things that just absolutely dont seem to make sense can often seem like either lazy moves by the devs, or concepts that werent tested or thought out very well.

However, having shields charge only on completion of a room COULD make sense.  I keep intending to bring that up with Chris, and keep forgetting. 

And yes, there are occaisional situations where it's nearly impossible to avoid damage in some rooms.   Rooms as a whole have been very well designed so far, but when you've got so very many, it's inevitable that there are going to be mistakes.  I can think of a couple of rooms that have this issue.  This involves non-combat rooms as a rule.

Offline Professor Paul1290

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And yes, there are occaisional situations where it's nearly impossible to avoid damage in some rooms.   Rooms as a whole have been very well designed so far, but when you've got so very many, it's inevitable that there are going to be mistakes.  I can think of a couple of rooms that have this issue.  This involves non-combat rooms as a rule.

Makes sense, if there are rooms where traps are unavoidable then they shouldn't cause persistent damage all the time.

In that case shield recharge on room completion would probably be a better option.


Offline Misery

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I will say though, if you encounter a room where there appears to be unavoidable trap damage, a report about it would help alot.

You can hit F3 in game to bring up an info display at the top of the screen, and at the bottom of this, the room file name is listed.  Just send that via Mantis, and it's a very quick fix for the room designers.  The more of those ironed out, the better!