Author Topic: Augmented Alpha feedback  (Read 9615 times)

Offline Logorouge

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2017, 07:09:47 PM »
Mirror V2: Last Phase moves forward until it hits the wall. Then what? Is it intended?

....Eh?

That shouldn't even be possible. That boss hasn't received any changes.
Coming back to this, because it did that thing again with Mirror mk1. But this time I recorded it! -Video here-
Brand new run with Roulette, where I picked up the Ice Shot Module and nothing else. Suspicious. Looking into it some more, the module includes a "SteeringDisabled" component, which must have messed up the boss movement pattern for that specific phase. Mystery solved.

Offline Ventifer

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2017, 09:13:34 PM »
Yeah, setting it to not allow you to pick up any items is kind of a thematic thing, plus it adds a slightly different gameplay element. I didn't want to do just another straight revive item. It does actually grant life on kill, but it's not a 1 health per enemy ratio. You have to kill 5 enemies for 1 health, I think. I tested it quick, and it does seem to be working correctly for me.

Okay, that makes sense then. Just wanted to make sure it was meant to do that.

The others are popcorn enemies which are set to not give XP, I think...although maybe if they just gave a very small amount of XP that would be nice. Only really respawning enemies need to be set to 0, I think.

With how often you run into "zoo" rooms where you just have 20 of those enemies types, it does kinda make sense for them to not grant xp.

Offline Misery

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2017, 06:58:00 PM »
Mirror V2: Last Phase moves forward until it hits the wall. Then what? Is it intended?

....Eh?

That shouldn't even be possible. That boss hasn't received any changes.
Coming back to this, because it did that thing again with Mirror mk1. But this time I recorded it! -Video here-
Brand new run with Roulette, where I picked up the Ice Shot Module and nothing else. Suspicious. Looking into it some more, the module includes a "SteeringDisabled" component, which must have messed up the boss movement pattern for that specific phase. Mystery solved.

Yeah, that's not one I can fix. 

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2017, 11:12:28 AM »
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Brand new run with Roulette, where I picked up the Ice Shot Module and nothing else. Suspicious. Looking into it some more, the module includes a "SteeringDisabled" component, which must have messed up the boss movement pattern for that specific phase. Mystery solved.

Yeah, makes sense. I'll probably remove the SteeringDisabled behaviour on those items. It was just a nicety to give the effect of an enemy sliding on ice a bit, but it's not absolutely necessary.

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With how often you run into "zoo" rooms where you just have 20 of those enemies types, it does kinda make sense for them to not grant xp.

I would lean towards them giving you a small XP amount myself, maybe even as low as 2XP each. It seems a shame to kill a bunch of those enemies and get nothing out of it. Enemies that respawn shouldn't give any XP, of course, but as long there are finite amounts of the enemies, a small XP amount seems fine to me. Either way, I'm not too concerned about it, though.

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Yeah, that's not one I can fix. 

Yeah, I'll remove the SteeringDisabled modifier on that item. That should fix things.

Offline Logorouge

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2017, 07:17:08 PM »
Finally compiled my feedback/suggestions from the last weekend into a format that isn't complete nonsense. So there it is:


-X1_Craig_LockerRoom: Reduce the number of layers of keyblocks per corner. 12 keys to grab everything is a bit over the top.

-X1_MinibossLargeDeathWheel: You start the room on an enemy, taking a hit before you can even dodge.

-X1_MinibossLargeOpticon: Miniboss needs a lot more health. Didn't have time to get his name before it died.

-X1_MinibossLargeHarrier: Miniboss needs some extra health. Some regular projectiles are a bit too fast.

-PT_MinibossLargeHive: Miniboss needs more health.

-Overkill perk: Works on debris.

-No shopkeepers on golden floors?

-Golden floors significantly smaller than regular ones?

-Partial shops: Room design includes 3 items, but sometimes not all of them show up ingame. (See "HalfShop" images)

-IntermittentDamageTrap: Can damage Penumbra (immune to trap) and maybe Trapmaster?

-D18_TwoFactor room: Cannot go through with victory or golden button. Need to destroy generator. Intended?

-X1_Craig_LaserDisco room: Missing Travelporter.

-Acid Crystal Minion: Explosion projectiles too fast.


-Meteor Storm consumable: Allow to damage/destroy bombables.

-Laser Lance: Any way to lock the cockpit aim angle for a split second while the lance fires? So the two stay aligned when firing? It does add an aiming movement limitation to the weapon though.

-Armada (energy): Double energy cost. Even with that, it will still be a top tier weapon by a large margin.

-Shock Wave Missile Launcher: Reduce stun duration

-Leviathan Autocannon: The recoil was pushing me forward instead of back. Did that happen to anyone else?

-Elemental damage modules: Are some enemies weaker against specific elements? If not, might as well remove elemental mention to avoid confusion and simply describe effect (stun, DoT, etc).

-Phantom Frame module: Pass through all blocks and ignore one-way arrows AND immune to environmental hazards. Seems excessive. With only a portion of those effects, Jaywalker was made into an incredibility. My suggestion: Focus on the passing through blocks part, leaving the rest to other items/perks.

-Undead Revive (sac item): I like the concept of being reborn with a different set of rules, but the "no picking up items" part pretty much stops all progression for the mech (with the exception of levelup perks). No new weapon, module, powerups, consumable, or even credits/keycards/missiles. It's kinda of a big downer. Instead, I would recommend re-enabling item picking and using a Healthgains multiplier of 0 to negate healing pickups. That way you still have to rely on the lifeleech effect. To compensate this boost, the item could lose its damage multipliers and possibly its trap immunity. The specifics aren't that important, as long as triggering the power early doesn't mean the run is over, progression-wise.


And that's all I got for now.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2017, 09:52:01 PM »
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X1_Craig_LockerRoom: Reduce the number of layers of keyblocks per corner. 12 keys to grab everything is a bit over the top.

Yeah, it is a bit too much. I've replaced the inside keyblocks with rewards instead. It's a lot more rewarding now, hopefully not too much.

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-X1_MinibossLargeDeathWheel: You start the room on an enemy, taking a hit before you can even dodge.

Yeah, I'm hoping to get the room starting position changed some time -- I need to ask Keith about that at some point. I'd really really really rather not have to tweak the positions of the enemies for this boss since even the slightest change is probably going to cause me to have to redo a lot of the work.

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-X1_MinibossLargeOpticon: Miniboss needs a lot more health. Didn't have time to get his name before it died.

I've upped the health a fair bit. Thanks!

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-PT_MinibossLargeHive: Miniboss needs more health.

Upped the health a bit. These minibosses might need one more round of buffs, we'll see.

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-Overkill perk: Works on debris.

Drat. Sounds like a Keithy fix this. No solution comes to mind. I'll add this to the batch of fixes for Keith.

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-No shopkeepers on golden floors?

Good spot. I better investigate that then. (investigates) Sorted, fixed that now. We should probably look into creating a new shopkeeper, too, perhaps. Or possibly just get a nice Gold Palette version.

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-Golden floors significantly smaller than regular ones?

Not sure! (investigates). It does look like the floors are set up differently. This is where it'd be good to have Ptarth around so I could ask how he set these up and stuff, but unfortunately he's super busy and hard to contact at the moment. I don't really see why these should be smaller, so I'll just copy the values from the base floor setup, I think. Well spotted! I was completely blind to that, heh.

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-Partial shops: Room design includes 3 items, but sometimes not all of them show up ingame. (See "HalfShop" images)

I have no clue on this one. I'll have to think on it...or something!

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-IntermittentDamageTrap: Can damage Penumbra (immune to trap) and maybe Trapmaster?

I think I fixed these. I'll test them on one of my runs at some point.

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-X1_Craig_LaserDisco room: Missing Travelporter.

Fixed!

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-Acid Crystal Minion: Explosion projectiles too fast.

I'm not sure which enemy you mean here. Or which attack. Can you get the enemy name please?

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-Meteor Storm consumable: Allow to damage/destroy bombables.

Sounds like that would be an interesting use of the item. Done!

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-Laser Lance: Any way to lock the cockpit aim angle for a split second while the lance fires? So the two stay aligned when firing? It does add an aiming movement limitation to the weapon though.

So that you can't rotate the mech while firing? I don't actually think that's possible, but I'll think on it.

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-Armada (energy): Double energy cost. Even with that, it will still be a top tier weapon by a large margin.

Okay. Hopefully we haven't gone overboard on the nerf.

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-Shock Wave Missile Launcher: Reduce stun duration

Reduced the duration a bit.

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-Leviathan Autocannon: The recoil was pushing me forward instead of back. Did that happen to anyone else?

I think I've seen that, yeah. (investigates) I think I've sorted this out. It was something to do with the recoil varying along with mech speed, so I set the mech speed when firing so that everything is consistent. Seems solid now.

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Elemental damage modules: Are some enemies weaker against specific elements? If not, might as well remove elemental mention to avoid confusion and simply describe effect (stun, DoT, etc).

I haven't 100% decided yet, but currently no. I'll leave this for now to think on it a bit more and I'll get the descriptions fixed when I go through all the text.

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-Phantom Frame module: Pass through all blocks and ignore one-way arrows AND immune to environmental hazards. Seems excessive. With only a portion of those effects, Jaywalker was made into an incredibility. My suggestion: Focus on the passing through blocks part, leaving the rest to other items/perks.

I'm not sure on this. It just seems so odd to me for your mech to be made into a phantom and yet still be harmed by caltrops. I know it's more a question of balance, but I'm not super convinced that the current setup is overpowered for a module, since you can only have one at a time. How no-brainer is it to pick up the Phantom Frame versus say the Homing Missiles? Not sure on this, but I'll think about it. It might be a little overpowered.

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-Undead Revive (sac item): I like the concept of being reborn with a different set of rules, but the "no picking up items" part pretty much stops all progression for the mech (with the exception of levelup perks). No new weapon, module, powerups, consumable, or even credits/keycards/missiles. It's kinda of a big downer. Instead, I would recommend re-enabling item picking and using a Healthgains multiplier of 0 to negate healing pickups. That way you still have to rely on the lifeleech effect. To compensate this boost, the item could lose its damage multipliers and possibly its trap immunity. The specifics aren't that important, as long as triggering the power early doesn't mean the run is over, progression-wise.

I'm a bit undecided, but I think those changes sound good. I might make them tomorrow, I think.

Thanks for the feedback! :)

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2017, 11:45:35 AM »
Couple of notes. The Laser Lance particle has been updated by Goldenwolf to look a little better.

On the Undead Revive. I tried the changes, and while they kind of worked it seemed a bit too much of a departure from the essence of the item. It is meant to be a pact with the devil that allows you to cheat death rather than be a simple extra life. So, when you die, your form is meant to be locked in place at the point you died. I actually did want to even remove the leveling, too, but you can't really do that in the engine, so that had to stay. I kind of prefer the current implementation because it's more original and more thematic, and still seems pretty useful to me. Yeah, if you die early then you've got a pretty hard road to victory...but at least you still have a chance, which is what the item is meant to offer. One last chance to win. I think any balancing tweaks should be based on the current implementation. Perhaps we could decrease the Sacrifice cost or up the damage bonus etc.

Offline Logorouge

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2017, 05:56:20 PM »
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-Acid Crystal Minion: Explosion projectiles too fast.

I'm not sure which enemy you mean here. Or which attack. Can you get the enemy name please?
From X1_Miniboss_KingGreen (Acid King), when his minions self-destruct they release some super fast projectiles. A bit too fast in my opinion. I think "Acid Crystal Minion" was the accurate name.

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-Phantom Frame module [...]

I'm not sure on this. It just seems so odd to me for your mech to be made into a phantom and yet still be harmed by caltrops. I know it's more a question of balance, but I'm not super convinced that the current setup is overpowered for a module, since you can only have one at a time. How no-brainer is it to pick up the Phantom Frame versus say the Homing Missiles? Not sure on this, but I'll think about it. It might be a little overpowered.
In this case, homing missiles would provide some extra firepower (nice, but nothing crazy), but the Phantom Frame would allow you to ignore everything related to the rooms themselves (including traps), doesn't need missiles anymore to reach behind bombables and the mech itself can hide in blocks to avoid most enemy retaliations. He's in a different league entirely I think.

On the Undead Revive [...]
Yeah, my suggestion might have been closer to a zombie than a blood phantom. :P I'll try to think of something else while keeping the theme in mind. The main thing I wanna avoid, is that item single-handedly causing situations akin to facing MirrorV2 in the test room (it takes beyond forever), where you simply don't have the power to face the later opponents.

Or maybe it doesn't really matter and a firm warning in the item's description would be enough. If it's a choice, even a risky one, it would be up to the player to decide if it's worth taking and it makes things interesting. Hm, I guess I got some thinking to do.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2017, 07:20:33 PM »
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From X1_Miniboss_KingGreen (Acid King), when his minions self-destruct they release some super fast projectiles. A bit too fast in my opinion. I think "Acid Crystal Minion" was the accurate name.

Ah, right. I was trying to go through the regular enemies in my head, but didn't think of the Miniboss minions. Doh! Reduced the shot speed from 1000 to 900. Hopefully that does the trick. If not, we can go 800.

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In this case, homing missiles would provide some extra firepower (nice, but nothing crazy), but the Phantom Frame would allow you to ignore everything related to the rooms themselves (including traps), doesn't need missiles anymore to reach behind bombables and the mech itself can hide in blocks to avoid most enemy retaliations. He's in a different league entirely I think.

Hmmm, ok. As much as it irks me to see a Phantom Mech get damaged by caltrops, I'll remove the trap immunity. I reserve the right to add it back if we get a bunch of feedback saying that the module is underpowered, though, heh. What if I were to make it so that it only gave immunity to caltrops? Would that still be too much?

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Yeah, my suggestion might have been closer to a zombie than a blood phantom. :P I'll try to think of something else while keeping the theme in mind. The main thing I wanna avoid, is that item single-handedly causing situations akin to facing MirrorV2 in the test room (it takes beyond forever), where you simply don't have the power to face the later opponents.

One thing I'm considering adding is 1 missile regen on room change, so you can at least replenish missiles in some way. What do you think?

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Or maybe it doesn't really matter and a firm warning in the item's description would be enough. If it's a choice, even a risky one, it would be up to the player to decide if it's worth taking and it makes things interesting. Hm, I guess I got some thinking to do.

Yeah,  a good description should help. Cheers!

Offline Ventifer

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2017, 07:25:06 PM »
One thing I'm considering adding is 1 missile regen on room change, so you can at least replenish missiles in some way. What do you think?

Missile regen would help out on it for sure. It would at least give you chance to push through the normal rooms. A good description could be all it needs too though.

Offline Ventifer

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2017, 12:48:45 AM »
Having an odd bug that seems to be persistent in both the alpha and stable build on steam. The mech seems to just auto run to left. It continues to happen if I remove my keyboard and/or my mouse. It started happening this week. My cursor also disappears on the main menu requiring me to select game and mech choice by arrow keys. I'd assume these two bugs are related. 

Offline Ventifer

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2017, 07:37:12 AM »
Having an odd bug that seems to be persistent in both the alpha and stable build on steam. The mech seems to just auto run to left. It continues to happen if I remove my keyboard and/or my mouse. It started happening this week. My cursor also disappears on the main menu requiring me to select game and mech choice by arrow keys. I'd assume these two bugs are related. 

Seemed it was bug with unity and a program called vjoy which simulates a controller. I had to disable vjoy and now everything seems to be working. It was causing the same issue in other unity games too.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2017, 01:32:26 PM »
Having an odd bug that seems to be persistent in both the alpha and stable build on steam. The mech seems to just auto run to left. It continues to happen if I remove my keyboard and/or my mouse. It started happening this week. My cursor also disappears on the main menu requiring me to select game and mech choice by arrow keys. I'd assume these two bugs are related. 

Seemed it was bug with unity and a program called vjoy which simulates a controller. I had to disable vjoy and now everything seems to be working. It was causing the same issue in other unity games too.

Glad you got that sorted, then.

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Missile regen would help out on it for sure. It would at least give you chance to push through the normal rooms. A good description could be all it needs too though.

I'm still not sure on the regenerating missiles for the Undead Revive, or Necro Mech as it's now called. Hopefully we should get some more feedback on the item that will help me decide.

Offline Ventifer

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2017, 08:11:19 PM »
The Wire enemies that shoot a wire across the room need some sort of sound cue when they shoot. You can get sniped by that shot if aren't aware that they are in a room. 

I ran into the Circuit Rodure boss on both floor 3 and floor 4. I didn't think it was possible for him to spawn on both floors.

Offline Misery

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Re: Augmented Alpha feedback
« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2017, 11:14:08 AM »
The Wire enemies that shoot a wire across the room need some sort of sound cue when they shoot. You can get sniped by that shot if aren't aware that they are in a room. 

I ran into the Circuit Rodure boss on both floor 3 and floor 4. I didn't think it was possible for him to spawn on both floors.

Wires are getting that changed.  In the testing I've been doing over the last few days, I'm finding that they dont work out as well as I'd originally hoped they would, so yeah, a change for them coming.

As for the boss, uhhh.... Not sure how that's happening?  I hope I didn't do something derpy like define the freaking thing twice.