Arcen Games

Games => Stars Beyond Reach... This World Is Mine => Topic started by: x4000 on October 02, 2015, 02:22:46 PM

Title: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: x4000 on October 02, 2015, 02:22:46 PM
Release notes: https://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Stars_Beyond_Reach_Beta_Phase_3_Release_Notes#Version_0.914_.28The_Diseased.2C_The_Unemployed.2C_And_The_Balanced.29

Whew, okay, let's see:

1. This improves the clarity on a lot of things, like market items and so forth.  Still lots more to do, and there are so major hud things in the works that should really help with things people have brought up.

2. There were a huge number of bugs and balance issues that got sorted out.

3. The way that crown income happens has really been extremely changed around.  It's a lot more balanced now relative to itself, but one question that remains is if crown income is on parity with what you need to spend.  It might be that you feel too poor now, whereas you were too crazy rich before.  Not really sure.  There are a number of changes here that actually let you earn crowns from things that were not income sources before, but then other income sources got nerfed pretty hard or require more staff, etc.

4. Unemployment is once again a problem!  Although, now it's a problem in a much more straightforward way, which I'm pleased about.  A lot of the rebalancing with crowns also provides a huge amount of opportunities for more employment, so that's good.

5. Diseases are heavily restricted in the early acts in terms of how bad they can be on the severity scale, although that doesn't mean they won't still kill you if you're not careful.  Your tools for combating disease in other ways beyond just curing citizens are also now available in act 1 instead of being an act 4 thing that nobody has even seen yet.  Whether or not this is fully enough for diseases to feel right remains to be seen, but anyhow there you go.

6. Oh, you can actually use the international abilities again.  Sorry about that, I goofed it up last version.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: Cinth on October 02, 2015, 02:23:55 PM
Stay tuned for game breaking news!  Pun very much intended :D
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: x4000 on October 02, 2015, 02:27:55 PM
Hahaha.  From ptarth:

Quote
Did you increase birthrates to compensate for these changes? If not there may be issues. I'm on turn 29 of my current Boarine game with 175 people. It is going to take ages to get birthing centers with is now compounded with the massive drop in income.

Honestly though, with that many changes anything I say is speculative without trying it out.

Me: As to the birth rate issue... that's a really good point. Boarines have it particularly bad, but it may be that it needs to be increased for all races. I've got to get some lunch, but just shoot me a note if that or other things seem off. I have a feeling that some early buildings may be too expensive in crowns now, too, so I'd rather hit them all at once.


(That goes to everyone!)
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: gnosis on October 02, 2015, 02:34:17 PM
I need to start a new game with a new race ASAP... but I have soo much work to do on my own projects.. perhaps tomorow?
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: Cinth on October 02, 2015, 02:42:00 PM
I thought that the AI wasn't allowed to settle in territories next to the player...
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: ptarth on October 02, 2015, 03:30:36 PM
I think we are much too far in the poor area. Small Shops were the main source of income in previous version (along with lumber and fisheries when supported). They were cut by 90%. I'm on turn 33 in a new Boarine game. My income is 2.7k per turn. Middle Class Eateries seem to be the crown-making venture these days. All in all, I think crown production needs to be increased across the board by 500%. This would move up the crown production for the average worker to around 20, which I think is a better starting point. Right now I'm destitute.
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: Cinth on October 02, 2015, 03:34:23 PM
Well.... I went from grabbing 6-8 territories in the first 100 to nothing.

300 turns in and I'm up to 17k/ turn (still Act 1), about to go genocidal on those who took land near me (and then some).
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 02, 2015, 03:39:44 PM
I thought that the AI wasn't allowed to settle in territories next to the player...
no there not meant to. 2 I cant wait for my pet bug to go away so I can start nuking people 3 over all this all looks good ill have to try for my self though to see if the crown balance changes are a good thing.
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: x4000 on October 02, 2015, 04:02:18 PM
A bit more coming very shortly.  I hate the pollution thing too, in practice.

* The income of all the restaurants had not been properly reduced in the prior version to match the other crown producers.  Fixed.

* The amount of income directly generated by fishing wharves has been cut further, because with the multipliers those things are just plain old cash cows still.

* All sources of crowns except the lander itself have had their income levels increased by 3x.
** It may need to go further, but we'll take it one thing at a time for now.
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: Cinth on October 02, 2015, 04:19:59 PM
It's not that bad once you get going and get room to build up.  It's just a lot slower.  Of course my neighbors are P.O. with me and I think the planet has gone genocidal, but it will be ok.   ::)
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: x4000 on October 02, 2015, 04:23:32 PM
Hahaha.

And yeah, understood.  But I don't want things to feel like they are sluggish at the start.  Granted, previously folks were abusing the heck out of some buildings and so it was WAY faster than intended, but there's a middle ground in there somewhere.  :P
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: ptarth on October 02, 2015, 04:28:07 PM
...abusing....

 :P

How long are you ball parking Act 1 to take?
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: Cinth on October 02, 2015, 04:30:46 PM
...abusing....

 :P

How long are you ball parking Act 1 to take?

I'd be in Act 1 for a couple hundred turns.  No hurry to advance really.  I'd just like to hit 150k crowns so I can expand my territory and build up from there.
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: x4000 on October 02, 2015, 05:05:19 PM
Haha, fair points.

The new version is out now!

My main gripe is not how fast you were doing things, but rather:
1. Tons of money without having a lot of buildings and citizens to back that up.
2. Spamming a single kind of building being a reasonable thing.

That's where my term of abuse comes from. :)
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: ptarth on October 02, 2015, 05:11:23 PM
Haha, fair points.

The new version is out now!

My main gripe is not how fast you were doing things, but rather:
1. Tons of money without having a lot of buildings and citizens to back that up.
2. Spamming a single kind of building being a reasonable thing.

That's where my term of abuse comes from. :)

Which I still think would be cured by the need-based economy.  :D
Any estimate on how many turns you feel Act 1 should be?
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: x4000 on October 03, 2015, 12:01:37 PM
Based on your definition of a need-based economy, and our discussion of that, it seems that a worker-based economy is exactly equivalent so long as the workers all have needs (which they do).  Having workers have needs and then the need-providers need workers and then also generate money based on customers is incredibly complicated.

Not to code, mind you.  Computers are awesome at that sort of thing.  I had that half coded and then was like "this is a nightmare for the interface."  It's just one of those things that I can't possibly see as being tenable, as there are just soooo many multipliers and whatnot that then get in there.  How do I wrap my head around planning for that as a player?

In terms of the number of turns act 1 should be, I'd probably say 80-100 on average.  I'm pulling that number out of my rear as I have not had proper time to test in a holistic sense lately, though.
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: Cinth on October 03, 2015, 12:12:12 PM
In terms of the number of turns act 1 should be, I'd probably say 80-100 on average.  I'm pulling that number out of my rear as I have not had proper time to test in a holistic sense lately, though.

I can see that depending on what your start condition is (normals can do that pretty easy).  You definitely
hurt for research advancing that early though.
Title: Re: Beta 0.914 (The Diseased, The Unemployed, And The Balanced) Released!
Post by: ptarth on October 03, 2015, 12:42:37 PM
Based on your definition of a need-based economy, and our discussion of that, it seems that a worker-based economy is exactly equivalent so long as the workers all have needs (which they do).  Having workers have needs and then the need-providers need workers and then also generate money based on customers is incredibly complicated.

Not to code, mind you.  Computers are awesome at that sort of thing.  I had that half coded and then was like "this is a nightmare for the interface."  It's just one of those things that I can't possibly see as being tenable, as there are just soooo many multipliers and whatnot that then get in there.  How do I wrap my head around planning for that as a player?

In terms of the number of turns act 1 should be, I'd probably say 80-100 on average.  I'm pulling that number out of my rear as I have not had proper time to test in a holistic sense lately, though.

Hmm, possibly I was underthinking it. I was imagining a continuation of the same sort of system they use in Ano 1509 and Cleopatra (etc). Housing provides needs based on citizen count. Those need transform into your effective income when met. So if you meet 50% of your luxury housing citizens needs you'd get X crowns. And so forth. The interface the player would get would be a simple: You need 757 police protection, 234 fire protection, etc (just like now). When met the needs go away (just like now). And then you get magical money from the sky as you provide each unit of need. Future needs could be either kept as a per building requirement (just like now) or could arise from your buildings as you discover the technology required to produce it (you could also just hide need X until a building that produces it can be built).

The 50-100 turns is what I was thinking, but I didn't want to put (more than I already do) words in your mouth.

Cheers, pt.