Author Topic: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)  (Read 4765 times)

Offline solosol

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2013, 07:03:19 AM »
I'm  throwing ideas some ideas about a new faction

- Egypt. Little needed to say, as everybody knows something about it. Mummies, pharaohs, pyramids, anks and other totems, hundreds of gods...you can have all the lore you need. I find it suits perfect with (against) greeks and norse. New tile: desert tile. Unique food: peas?
- Asian cultures. Ancient Japanese, chinese, Siam, Djemer ...very very exotic, and with tons of lore. New tile: bamboo forest? Unique food: rice would be the first election, but it require to change the greek food for something like moussaka, goat cheese,.... If not then may use Soya, or roasted duck, for asians....:)
- Inca, Maya, Aztek. Their lore is great too. New tile: jungle tile :)  Unique food: corn, chocolate, tomato, potato, chili,.....so many to choose from
- Celts can give a lot of lore, as said before.
- Babilonian/Persian cultures....well they are interesting...
- If looking for something really different, then try to give a look to the african cultures, that include cultures like arabian, ber ber, (and going to south) like the zulu,....) They got some many interesting things, and are also less known; indonesian and australian primitive cultures might be interesting too. I think skimo would need a lot of work, but is a excuse to introduce Ice tiles ...

Offline Admiral Tolwin

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2013, 04:37:05 PM »
Another Idea for a expansion:

Whats about some (Mini)Missions?
I think it would add a lot of flavour, when u have to sovle some Missions from time to time.

If u have success u get some good stuff (p.e. a mythical unit for free), and if u dont the bandits could get a strong unit.

A mission could be :
   - Aphrodite want more love in the world, so raise the world population to XX in 15 turns. Otherwise Aphrodite become angry and send her Son phobos who will support the bandits

   - Thor want made a party, he will need xxx Weat in xx turns, otherwise he will made the party at your home ;)

   - Ares is bored he send his cerebus to the world and promise a high reward to the unit who beat this monster

etc

As u can see a mission could have an impact on the whole world as well as on only one unit.
So u not only have to keep the world running u have also have to do some stuff for this unthankful gods around.

I think this could be a good way add more "story" to the world, what made every game more unique.
 


Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2013, 06:27:00 PM »
Another Idea for a expansion:

Whats about some (Mini)Missions?
I think it would add a lot of flavour, when u have to sovle some Missions from time to time.

If u have success u get some good stuff (p.e. a mythical unit for free), and if u dont the bandits could get a strong unit.

A mission could be :
   - Aphrodite want more love in the world, so raise the world population to XX in 15 turns. Otherwise Aphrodite become angry and send her Son phobos who will support the bandits

   - Thor want made a party, he will need xxx Weat in xx turns, otherwise he will made the party at your home ;)

   - Ares is bored he send his cerebus to the world and promise a high reward to the unit who beat this monster

etc

As u can see a mission could have an impact on the whole world as well as on only one unit.
So u not only have to keep the world running u have also have to do some stuff for this unthankful gods around.

I think this could be a good way add more "story" to the world, what made every game more unique.
 


I like that idea alot, and i think that X4000 said he wanted to add missions and new units for the main game in the Major Villans thread.  :) Take a look, its really interesting.

http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,13307.0.html


-Teal


Offline x4000

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2013, 01:06:50 PM »
I've been away from this for a lot longer than I meant to; just tons of things going on.  Anyway, we settled on Japanese because there's just so much interesting stuff there and because we could make them really different.  This is what I wrote up about them from the 1.008 release notes thread:

Skyward Collapse: Nihon no mura
All of the updates in this release are part of what we are working toward for our big 2.0 version of Skyward Collapse.  This one 1.008 version takes us a ton of leaps and bounds toward 2.0, actually, but there's still more to come.  All free updates, and definitely exciting stuff.

Alongside the free updates, we're working on the first paid expansion for the game, as well.  This will be called Skyward Collapse: Nihon no mura.  It adds a new Japanese faction, as well as hamlets.

The Japanese faction is really exciting because they work so differently from a fundamental premise.  They have fewer human units, but more mythological ones.  Their gods have no direct powers and don't stand around passively, but instead wander around causing trouble -- and summoning mythological creatures unique to them.  Rather than three powers per god, it's three unique creatures.  Very different from the Norse and Greeks!

The design for hamlets is still ongoing, but I'm really excited about how this will extend the game into a civilian direction that can be played alongside the main military showdown.  Lots of things on this still need to be fleshed out, and then lots of playtesting needs to happen before those ideas are truly honed.  But we're expecting to hit public beta for the expansion in July, and then do our full 2.0 release alongside the expansion in early August.


In terms of comments about obviousness not being a bad thing, I agree to an extent.  I find Babylonians fairly boring as well.  But there is a difference between "most obvious" and somewhat obvious.  Anyhow.  Egyptians probably will be what we do for the second expansion.

A few other things to clarify:

1. For the expansions, I wholly agree that just a new civilization is not enough to hold up that.  Obviously there is a bunch of new music as well, but there also needs to be another "anchor feature" or a ton of smaller features.  In this case, the anchor features is the hamlets.

2. Regarding the civilizations, bear in mind that you're only ever seeing two at once still -- red and blue, whatever you assign them to.  Even in the base game you can do greek on greek if you like.  But now you can do any of the combinations including (or not) Japanese.  It's kind of like the AI Types in AI War (although now with the dual-type AIs I guess that's a hair different).  Having all the factions out on the board at once is definitely not a goal of mine: it would make the games way longer, the maps way bigger, the maps way more crowded, each turn far slower, the faction flag colors progressively less clear, and the interface impossible to handle (because of the need to show the stats for more factions at the top of the screen, and having no room for that).
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Offline Penumbra

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2013, 01:11:49 PM »

. . . there also needs to be another "anchor feature" . . .

. . . Regarding the civilizations, bear in mind that you're only ever seeing two at once . . .

For far in the future... potential new expansion feature?  :P

Offline x4000

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2013, 01:19:02 PM »

. . . there also needs to be another "anchor feature" . . .

. . . Regarding the civilizations, bear in mind that you're only ever seeing two at once . . .

For far in the future... potential new expansion feature?  :P

I really doubt it, but I guess you never know.  I listed a lot of problems above, which I feel like are pretty intractible.  Remember that the interface has to fit in 1024x720 pixels of space.  Right now there is no room to do more factions at once without either changing the top bar GUI heavily or breaking that rule.
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Offline Penumbra

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2013, 01:31:18 PM »

I really doubt it, but I guess you never know.  I listed a lot of problems above, which I feel like are pretty intractible.  Remember that the interface has to fit in 1024x720 pixels of space.  Right now there is no room to do more factions at once without either changing the top bar GUI heavily or breaking that rule.

Yeah, I meant it mostly tongue in cheek. But, I thought it was interesting that you said you would need new "big" features in the future, and then listed a giant one!  ;)

Maybe they would be configurable, yet uncontrollable, factions similar to bandits?

Sorry! Getting too far ahead. I have barely scratched the surface of what you have given us already to be asking for more. 

Offline x4000

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2013, 01:36:18 PM »
I can't really speculate with too much accuracy on what sort of features might come in the future, both in terms of expansions or in terms of even just updates to the base game.  I mean, just look at AI War!  Most of the stuff in The Zenith Remnant (expansion 1) was stuff that I had already wanted to do prior to getting 1.0 of that game out.  In terms of the updates for version 2.0 of the game, that was also just refinement of the base concept as well a lot of polish and basic extensions that came from the desires of players more than anything else.

But then once we got even to the second expansion... things really started taking a turn for the unexpected, in a good way.  New ideas came from players, we had new ideas between Keith and myself as well, and so on.  So many good ideas come much later down the line once a game has matured, rather than during initial development or even shortly after the game comes out.  It's why I love that long-term support model so much, is that it really allows games to evolve in a way they never would otherwise.
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Offline Cyprene

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2013, 03:35:14 PM »
This is so minor I feel stupid even writing it, but is there a reason the "mura" in Nihon no mura is uncapitalized?  Japanese has no caps, so you can do whatever you want with it, but it just feels kind of odd to me. 

Props on getting the Japanese right, by the way.  It's a tricky language.  I do half my work in it, and it's amazing how people who've been learning the language for years will still slip up (Myself included!), so I'm always impressed when people who don't work with it regularly do it correctly. 

Offline x4000

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2013, 03:40:07 PM »
Cheers, thanks for that -- I'm glad to have someone check me anyhow.  And for the capitalization... yeah, I don't actually know why I did that.  Nihon no Mura, or Nihon No Mura, do you think?  I seem to recall mostly seeing no as lowercase even in titles; but then again I've seen loads of titles that are all lowercase like you say.  Doesn't feel right here, though.
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Offline Cyprene

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2013, 03:54:53 PM »
Well, by no caps I just mean the concept doesn't exist in the language at all.  It would be written either ?????? or ????, depending on what kind of feel you were going for.  (Probably the latter.)   "no" is the possessive, the "of" in "Villages of Japan", so typically you would follow the same rule you do for "of" in English, and write it as "Nihon no Mura". 

Japanese religion and monsters are something of a specialty of mine, as these things go, so if there's anything you're not sure about feel free to send me a PM and I'd be happy to help.  I'm really looking forward to the expansion. 

Offline x4000

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2013, 03:56:57 PM »
Awesome, thanks -- that's what I'll do (and I knew what you meant about the concept of capitalization not existing there; the same is true in Latin, which is my specialty language.  Latin also had no real sense of word order or punctuation at all, fun fun).

I'll have Josh hit you up for some information, because he's doing all the research and I'm sure would love some of your insight. :)
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Offline melkathi

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2013, 12:31:35 PM »
Looking forward to the japanese faction.

Other than the already mentioned Egyptian, Babylonian, Aztec etc. did anyone mention hinduism yet? Indra, Ganesha, Varuna, Kali... loads of possibilities at least god-wise. And the belief in reincarnation could offer some interesting faction possibilities.

Offline x4000

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2013, 12:50:09 PM »
Pretty much most current religions I'd like to stay away from.  Obviously Buddhism and Shinto are still things, but I don't think their older gods and mythology are considered all that current.  Same with a lot of the demonology with Catholicism.  But Hinduism very much still actively has a lot do do with the gods you mentioned, so far as I know.  I've never thought to ask honestly, although I know quite a lot of Hindus.
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Offline melkathi

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Re: First expansion discussion (split from other thread)
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2013, 01:43:15 PM »
Better safe than sorry :)