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It'll eat the Ark. But it's much slower than the Ark.
I can just imagine how the AI would react.
AI Ship 1: Hey, I haven't seen any of those pesky humans around lately, did we finally crush them?
AI Ship 2: Nah, that Devourer thing ate that big ship they had, now all their remaining ships are just floating around uselessly.
AI Ship 1: Oh, that was easy, soooo... what do we do now?
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Also, atm is there anything in place to make it where the devourer golem can't eat your Ark, or will we just have to run as fast as we can if it visits the planet with your Ark on it?
It'll eat the Ark. But it's much slower than the Ark.
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What about also adding a structure or unit that attracts the devourer golem more than normal, so once you get rid of the units repelling it, you can get it to go there sooner? Possibly making it where the Nemesis can send the unit or build the building on your planets instead, so they can also be used against you. Also, atm is there anything in place to make it where the devourer golem can't eat your Ark, or will we just have to run as fast as we can if it visits the planet with your Ark on it?
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First, how do we make sure the Devourer doesn't accidentally eat the AI Master Controller. What if there was a "Devourer-Repeller" attribute that could be given to MarkV guardians controlled by the AI? Then the devourer just needs to avoid planets with those units.  This has the additional benefit(?) of imagining a clever human strike force that destroys the Devourer-Repeller units and then persuades the Devourer to attack the AI Master Controller.
Yea, my thought had been to simply have the Devourer not route through the AI HW. But making it not route through planets with any Dire Guardians (distinct from MkV guardians) would be more interesting. Or possibly "more than 1 dire guardian", since other planets occasionally get some.

Kind of like an elephant being scared of particularly warlike mice.

That way you have to take out most of the AI HW before the cookie monster will go there. But then he will. "Get the Devourer to win the game for you" does sound like a fun achievement :)


A second part of it is how to balance the Devourer to not be quite the unstoppable force it can be now, without it just getting killed by the first MkV AI planet it runs across. I'm thinking of making the Devourer faction just respawn the thing every X game minutes if it's dead.

Another interesting idea is to find some mechanic whereby its strength varies over the course of the game, either by linear time or by total positive AIP (ignoring reductions), etc. That's a bit tricky because max health and shields can't vary for a specific entity definition. Attack power can be added through additional systems. And shields could theoretically be added by it spawning additional shield-generating ships that fly with it, but that's brittle.

Perhaps the best way there is to actually have different entity definitions for the Devourer, with different levels of strength. Then the faction just spawns the one that's appropriate to the current state of the game, whenever it dies or simply replacing it every X game minutes if it's not in the middle of a fight.


Or we could go the other direction and give it Dyson-levels of durability and make its weapon range relatively short so it doesn't just clean out the galaxy. But that would basically be an enemy-to-all astro train, which doesn't sound as interesting. Maybe that's a good variant for someone to mod in at some point, though.


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Second, making it "less lame" for the Dyson Sphere to not capture AI planets. One possibility is to say "AI Progress happens on Capture of a planet controller, not destruction of the AI planet controller".  This way the Dyson Sphere can casually destroy the AI planet controllers. To make sure that the "neuter all the AI planets by destroying the controllers" strategy doesn't get too powerful, give the Usurper fleets significant strength increases when attacking an unowned planets with human defenses on it.
That's a good point. I've thought several times about having AIP happen on first-capture-of-planet rather than on first-liberation-of-planet.

Combined with the AI's reconquest mechanic that it already has with spawning the Usurper fleets, I think that could work well for letting factions raise all the ruckus they like. Still need to have them not kill ARS's and Advanced Factories and suchlike, which I don't know that they currently refrain from, but they could clear the AI off of planets entirely. And then when the AI's stronger or the Devourer has moved on or whatever the AI just moves in and reclaims the planet. Unless you take advantage of the situation at the right time, of course.


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Another possibility for the Dyson Sphere would be to introduce a new mechanism for visually clarifying for a given a planet that "Capturing this planet will cause AI progress". This is currently a problem already, because right now there's no feedback for a planet that has been recaptured by the AI with the Usurper. I'm not going to be able to remember which planets on the edge of my empire have been recaptured (and thus I can take them back without additional AIP), or which have never been captured.
Yea, it does need to make that info visible.
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A couple comments on the questions Keith raised in the release notes.

 First, how do we make sure the Devourer doesn't accidentally eat the AI Master Controller. What if there was a "Devourer-Repeller" attribute that could be given to MarkV guardians controlled by the AI? Then the devourer just needs to avoid planets with those units.  This has the additional benefit(?) of imagining a clever human strike force that destroys the Devourer-Repeller units and then persuades the Devourer to attack the AI Master Controller.

Second, making it "less lame" for the Dyson Sphere to not capture AI planets. One possibility is to say "AI Progress happens on Capture of a planet controller, not destruction of the AI planet controller".  This way the Dyson Sphere can casually destroy the AI planet controllers. To make sure that the "neuter all the AI planets by destroying the controllers" strategy doesn't get too powerful, give the Usurper fleets significant strength increases when attacking an unowned planets with human defenses on it.

Another possibility for the Dyson Sphere would be to introduce a new mechanism for visually clarifying for a given a planet that "Capturing this planet will cause AI progress". This is currently a problem already, because right now there's no feedback for a planet that has been recaptured by the AI with the Usurper. I'm not going to be able to remember which planets on the edge of my empire have been recaptured (and thus I can take them back without additional AIP), or which have never been captured.
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Hey guys!

@Sounds:

In terms of the ships when you zoom in, there are a couple of things going on at the moment:

1. They are overlapping incorrectly because the radii are not set properly in the xml files.  Cinth is going to be working on that.

2. They are also in a very boring set of formations right now, all very flat as you note.  I did those mostly as a placeholder thing.  Cinth has some really cool ideas that he's going to be doing for them, too, to make them a lot more realistic feeling.

3. They also don't move at all at the moment, aside from when the squad moves.  I've been thinking about introducing some slight movement into even the ones that don't have giant swooping actions, etc.

TLDR: Basically it's just a this-is-early thing, but it's always really a good idea to check in case we were not aware. :)

@BadgerBadger: Thanks for the kind words. :)
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Off Topic / Re: Dota 2- 7.00
« Last post by TheVampire100 on Today at 01:50:38 AM »
Actually, there happens a lot in these phases but it's kind of complicated. However, with the recent changes, that heroes take longer to level, these phases also get a little stretched.
It laso depends, on what kind of tier you are in Dota. The pro tiers play a lot safer and less daring then the lower tiers. Pro players know, if they try to make a step too early, they moght ruin the whole match, that's why you see more "poking on each other" int hese games. Casual games or the "pub tier" how it's often called, tend to be more dynamic and a lot more chaotic. Why? People don't talk to each other there and if they talk, it's most often insults. Pros talk to each other all the time and manage what they wanna do, casual gamers don't even care about this srtuff, they just want to play "their game". that's also the reasonw hy they are so pissed, if they loose or die, because they truly believe, the other teammates caused this, not they and they ruined the experience of this player. This is in soem cases even true but in most cases it's the fault of the person himself.
Anyway, I have a lot of dynamic casual games that rarely are boring. Teh games, that tend to go longer, are mostly the games were both teams are equally strong and both teams need a momentum to get the upper hand. they can do this thorugh one of two things. Either they win abig fight or at least kill an important enemy hero while not loosing one on their team. the other thing would be, farm 'til you have an item, that gives you another power spike. Looking for kill opportunities is hard, even more so if you are not coordinated with the rest of the team (and honestly, in pub tier NO one is this). Farming is way easier, you just have to kill creeps and collect gold. so they farm.

What a lot of people seem to underestimate, Dota is a game of mind fucks.  Players in Dota get pretty fast paranoid, more so, if you deny them vision from wards and deny them gold. Players will be very nervous, if they don't get their items and they get scared by the most triial things, Dota heavily relies on the fact, that your opponent looses his nerves. it's kind of crazy how much psychological this game is but it is.

I got a little carried away, but the thing is, people like this fact about Dota. A lot. The times, where "nothing happens" are actually very eventful, you just don't see it. It's more of a head thing. I'm more busy in doing stuff int he firstz minutes of the game as I am in the last minutes in the game. And even in the late game, when you wait for a big opportunity, you always are busy with anything.

Now, about Hyper Universe, I played it a little more and got a better feel for it. The beta is ending this friday, I don't know if the game launches for the public right after that or some time later but just some heads up when the earliest date might be.
There are six classes that are inspired by classic rpgs/mobas.
Let+s start with the easiest ones, Tank and Support. Tank is pretty much what you except, lot of helth, can take punches, lot of defense etc.
Support fills the typical role to cast buffs and heals on your team and gives a little indirect control over the flow of the battle.
Other classes are Bruiser, Striker, Specialist and Assassin.
Bruiser is a mobile frontlien fighter, similiar to tank but a lot more versatile. Whiel tank can take damage and only that, a bruiser also deals a lot of damage and casts nasty debuffs on the enemy to take over the control of the battlefield. Most of the time they have a lot of mobile skills to get in or out of battle fast. A good exampel of this is Jennifer, who can simply break through the ground or roof of floors to get to another level.
Specialist rely on quick spells and are identical to nukers/mages. They got a lot of low cooldown spells to deal damage to a lot of enemies at once and most of the time purely damage with little control. They can kill minions faster than other heroes and are great to farm the neutral camps for the team (because gold is shared) while also getting items from the creeps that permanently boost their stats. They can also quickly push the lanes that way and bring down towers faster but "pushing" is in this game kind of underrated.
Assassins act similiar to specialists but their spells are for single targets and dish out huge damage to a target. They roam the map to look for lone targets and kill them quickly. Since the map isn't so big to begin with and players tend to fight more on the tower/siege floors, assassins are probably the most underrated class in this game but I might be wrong.
Striker are basically the "carries" in this game. They do their damage mostly with their basic attack and all their skills just support this in one way or another. Because they rely on their basic attack, to dish out damage, they have the smallest impact in the early game but have a great impact during the end of the game, when other players run out of skills but they still can keep up the pressure with their basic attack. They heavily rely on items, more so than any other class (except maybe the tank class) because they need to boost their basic atatck. All other skilsl are pretty much worthless because they either do only little damage or just enhance the base attack in some way.

Matches in Hyper Universe are very fast paced and the early, mid and end game phases merge seamless together unlike in dota, where they are clearly visible. This game is actually really nice in the way, that I don't have to put much thought into it, which I have to in Dota (and want to) and can jsut have a big bral arena with tons of fun. So, if I want to have soemthing mor edeep or stratetgic, I play Dota but if I just want some arena mayhem, I play Hyper Universe. Matchmakign however takes foever, but this is most liekely because of the closed beta, there aren'tthat many players and probably even less in my region.

I think this could or could not fall intot he kind of "moba" section, which Misery looks for. I don't know, it simply removes everything, Miser disliked about Dota.
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Private Alpha Discussion / Wormhole no longer turns green
« Last post by BadgerBadger on Today at 01:29:57 AM »
This should be appended to mantis bug https://bugtracker.arcengames.com/view.php?id=19178, but I get this error message from Mantis when I try to append to that bug:
"APPLICATION ERROR #27

You have reached the allowed activity limit of 10 events within the last 3600 seconds; your action has been blocked to avoid spam, please try again later."

So I'm making a forum post instead before I go to sleep. I've reproduced this problem. Here is a saved game. Go to the planet Froria, select most (or all; I was just selecting "most of them" somewhat cavalierly when I noticed the issue) of the ships, then hold ctrl and hover the cursor over the wormhole to Tamass. You will observe that the wormhole name does not turn green.

I'm going to take Mantis' suggestion to go to bed now. In the future though, perhaps y'all should tweak that limit?
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Off Topic / Re: Dota 2- 7.00
« Last post by Misery on Today at 01:05:47 AM »
Here's another problem with DotA. Most other games matches are over by this point. To use an old, tired quote: "Ain't nobody got time for that!"
Most other games aren't mobas.

This is true, but the problem isn't so much the amount of time: It's what it's filled with.  I understand the point of farming and such in this, but nothing really HAPPENS during these phases.  LoL and Smite have the same issue, but it's offset quite a bit due to the constant back and forth combat between you and your lane opponent, something totally missing in Dota.  In other words, even DURING farming in those games, there's still stuff happening to keep the player engaged.  However, the problem is definitely still there nonetheless.

Which is part of the problem as a whole, honestly, when it comes to the genre, is simply keeping players engaged, when that player isn't into grindy aspects of gaming.  There's too many moments of "stuff isn't happening" in these.  Whether you're just brainlessly poking creeps or running around slowly dropping wards, it often just seems like there should be more to do, but there isn't.  It might not seem so empty if these individual activities didn't take as long as they do, or didn't have such slow pacing.
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I hope you guys have a great week-before-the-4th-of-July break! I figure y'all have earned it after so many months of labour to get all the major pieces into the game. I look forward to perverting the Dyson Sphere to my nefarious aims while y'all are dealing with that whole Life thing.
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