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AI War II / Re: War of the Dark Spire - AI War 2 AAR
« Last post by Kesseleth on January 12, 2019, 09:03:37 PM »
Hmm. Posting my saves here is proving a problem, for reasons I don't understand. Attachments are screwing something up, is the best I can fathom. Well, if you want my saves, please contact me directly and I will send them to you.
The Last Federation / Re: Thinking about getting this game
« Last post by Ovalcircle1 on January 12, 2019, 08:59:18 PM »
Just got the Last Federation Collection from Humble Bundle. Massive discounts going on right now.

Edit: Observer mode! :) :D
AI War II / Re: War of the Dark Spire - AI War 2 AAR
« Last post by Kesseleth on January 12, 2019, 03:23:21 PM »

PART 1: The opening

Welcome, one and all, to the beginning of the War of the Dark Spire. When we last left off, I had just finished preparing the game save. Today, we shall begin in earnest.

It is worth noting that I actually had to remake the game, due to a glitch where it said I won immediately. Here's proof that everything is as it should be (edit: sans one mistake I made setting it up again, to be discussed later. Don't worry, it doesn't make things any easier for me!):

The first order of business, of course, is to begin spawning in my fleet. For science, I purchase the Mark I Spider Turret, upgrade each other turret to Mark II, and bring up my Parasites to Mark II. I also grab mobile builders and MSDs. This leaves me with some science left over, which is fine for now.

Unfortunately, a lack of metal rears its head quickly, so said fleet will take a few minutes to construct. In the meantime, I brought my scouts out to take a look at the starting cluster.

And what luck! There's nothing hugely threatening nearby, which is not particularly surprising, but there's a Data Center, mercenaries to employ, and a Tritium Sniper Turret Schematic! Things are off to a great start. I plan to be taking every planet in this cluster, so knowing I'll be rewarded for it is a great boon.

With my fleet built, I start setting up some rudimentary defenses. VERY rudimentary, just ten pike turrets. My energy and metal are both low, after all, and I need to start taking planets as soon as possible. It won't hold off a huge attack, but hopefully it won't have to... Hey!

Looks like the AI got tired of waiting. This shouldn't be a problem. In fact...

We even got a friend. I have a good feeling about these parasites.

First order of business is Asperta, because I want those schematics. This should be an uneventful battle, but a save never goes amiss.

... Perhaps I spoke too soon.

Some of the Hunter Fleet makes it past me but not enough to pose a huge threat.

A bit of fighting and I push them back. No major issues so far.

It's not long before the planet is mine.


Military command station for now. I expect to replace it later but at the moment security is what is needed... that, and for those ships to be out of the way.

Kazus is next. My homeworld will be relatively secure once it's been eliminated. It means I won't benefit from high homeworld salvage rates, but that's acceptable.

The battle proceeds mostly without incident. I begin building a complement of MSDs and builders back on my homeworld. Meanwhile a few ships slip into said homeworld but I am not concerned.

Okay, now I'm concerned. My fleet returns home to deal with this threat.

And back to your regularly scheduled programming. I must move the shield on Asperta over the warp gate to prevent this from happening again.

Next up is Anabas. This cluster will be clear soon, thankfully.

Visit from the hunter fleet is delaying that some. Meanwhile I'm building some sniper turrets, which is why my metal is so low.

blink I should have seen this coming.

Lovely. I may need to reload a save I made just before entering this planet, we'll see.

Okay, eeeeverybody out. This bodes poorly. I'm just going to call mulligan and try this attack from the start once more.

Seems like this is a good opportunity to use more science. At the moment, metal is a heavy limiter, so Metal Harvester Mark II seems like a good choice. I'm also powering up concussion corvettes and sniper turrets, to Marks II and III respectively.

Ah, an incoming wave...

Not enormous defenses, but the best I can do at the moment. Now, on to attacking...

Ouch. For the third planet I take this is no slouch. Lots of ships. Getting some sniper turrets activated will be a boon, hopefully. I'll see what I can do.

Well, I'm making some headway at least. It's rough, though.

Have at thee, vile fiends!

Well, they've been repelled, though not without losses. It seems the AI's turtle abilities have come into play quite quickly.

Ah, I almost forgot about the wave. Looks to be well under control. I almost wish this was a logistical station so I could take advantage of salvage. Ah well.

With the capture of Anabas, I now have shield starships to assist me. Frankly, I don't see myself getting all that much use out of them, but more ships is (generally) better.

Octave is a much easier planet to conquer, it would seem. I don't expect any major difficulties conquering it.

Well, almost no major difficulties. This Orbital Mass Driver has the potential to destroy my Ark if I don't either move it back to Anabas, or destroy it. I choose the former, since Thanatos has little to offer at this point in the quest.

Damnation! The Wardens have arrived. This may complicate things, though hopefully they are weak enough not to pose too much of a threat.

A few turrets wouldn't go amiss in dealing with all these Guardians. Most have 90 armor so pike turrets will help.

Few things in this game are more irritating than an engineer prioritizing ships over turrets. And you can't set manual targeting and choose what to repair. Heh.

This planet conquering appears mostly successful. And it won't even cost any AI Progress, thanks to the Datacenter! What luck!

Meanwhile, another wave arrives. This one seems to be beelining toward the Asperta command station, which is concerning...

There. That should help.

This planet will be mine before long. Only two left before my ultimate plan may begin its first phase - "Whipping Boy Extravapalooza".

And indeed, there it is. Next up, is Tulev.

Now, Tulev is notable. Not because of its AI defenses - no, not at all. Rather, it is important because it is the gateway between my core cluster, and the galaxy writ large. Once I take it and Lederburg just below, if either the AI or the Dark Spire wants to attack me, it can only do so after passing through Tulev first, with the exception of Wormhole Invasions (which will be dangerous).

Tulev is the linchpin upon which a large portion of my strategy rests. I must have it.

Now may be a good time to mention these snipers. I must admit that I am somewhat concerned by them. I feel as though their infinite range may pose a threat in the future... or prove to be quite a boon for me. If I see a way to disable them or bring them to my side, I will give it some more thought.

Now that I've gotten past the slight hump of now metal I can build turrets with (something approaching) impunity! I feel the AI will not appreciate this, but that's acceptable. If only there was still a voiceover of the AI mocking your gameplay... I miss that.


... Well, I suppose I did ask for it.

These parasites are powerful. I almost don't feel a need to upgrade them further, when I can turn so many enemy ships so quickly at just Mark II. Of course, I doubt it will stay that way as I proceed...

mouth hangs open


In other words, I just ran into a glitch known as the Death Ball (or something to that effect), which launches far more ships than is typical. I should be able to handle this, with some additional firepower on Asperta, but it's definitely going to be a threat throughout the run.

I... I thought I'd disabled those.


Well, whatever. This will simply make my eventual triumph all the more glorious.

And with that, Tulev is mine. It is time to create the Extravapalooza - a whipping boy the likes of which are seldom seen.

Well, there go my metal reserves. Still, look at that beauty. Every turret I have, in max quantity, arrayed so that each and every one will begin firing the instant ships enter from Gyarm. A military command station backs them up, tractor beams hold them in place, ambush turrets crush them all, and mines await them as well. I doubt anything will best this anytime soon.


Piss off.

The final planet in this cluster is Lederberg. It has nothing I haven't seen before, and now that it's been cut off from the Warden Fleet, I imagine it will be even easier to conquer.

Indeed, the planet is being conquered with little issue.

And with that, the last planet in the initial cluster is mine.

Things are looking good for our quest. The opening phase ends with seven planets to my name, the Extravapalooza has been constructed, and the AI has yet to put up too much of a fight (which was a concern, given the difficulty). Two things concern me, though. One, an hour has passed, so I'm due an Instigator Base, Cross Planet Attack, or Wormhole Invasion (well, not without 200 AIP) soon. The second is...


... The Dark Spire. I've seen none thus far, but they're out there... and they're dangerous. Still, until I meet them, there's naught to be done. Until next time, brave adventurers. Stay sharp.

Saves will be posted soon.

AI War II / Re: AI War 2 v0.809 Released! "Divide By Human"
« Last post by Ovalcircle1 on January 11, 2019, 10:39:12 PM »
Bumping because I use this post to get to the patch notes and I don't want to waste time trying to find this topic.
AI War II / Re: War of the Dark Spire - AI War 2 AAR
« Last post by zeusalmighty on January 11, 2019, 08:20:57 PM »
On discord (way back, not sure when) an idea floated around that Badger expressed interest in, namely, that Dark Spire Vengeance generators could be hacked to temporarily remove their invulnerability (pissing off the Dark Spire to be sure)

Not a feature yet, but this kind of thing would certainly matter for the kind of victory you are attempting to secure
Low, Medium and High difficutly golems should now work as they did in AIWC. Low difficulty golems have no AIP cost, medium difficulty has AIP cost, high difficulty has no AIP cost but does cause exogalactic strikeforce attacks.
AI War II / Re: Nanocaust increases AIP?
« Last post by BadgerBadger on January 01, 2019, 01:08:07 PM »
If you can find a save from before the AIP inexplicably went up and let me know when the AIP will go up (instructions like "Load this save, and in about a minute the AIP goes up by 20 and I didn't do anything") then I can take a look
AI War II / Re: Nanocaust increases AIP?
« Last post by Kahuna on January 01, 2019, 12:13:01 PM »
Hmm I'll have to look into this more. Because the Nanocaust was hostile to all.
AI War II / Re: A thought on exponential mark scaling
« Last post by RocketAssistedPuffin on January 01, 2019, 11:35:10 AM »
Okay, I get the issue. There are two main things that have influenced what I've done so far, first one is mentioned in an older update note.

"There is a huge amount of flexibility in this system, but if you're modding just do bear in mind that not everything possible makes the most sense.
For instance, stacking too many bonuses on ships is probably not a good idea. One, at most, ought to do plenty fine! Not everything even needs one! It's a matter of whether or not we can increase the interest of a ship's role with this, not whether we can make yet more stuff to read and more mental gymnastics for the player using them."

Extra bonuses are fairly simple to add on. Doing that is in a bit of a violation of the above, however. Admittedly, that's not set in stone! But it's something I'd be a bit reluctant to start doing officially, unless Chris thinks it's the way to go. There are a few units that actually do have several bonuses (Pike units are a good common example), so you could say there's...not much of a problem there? Still, it's a fairly simple secondary bonus.

I think there's an intention for things to be much clearer and simpler to understand here than in the first game, hence the reluctance to add more things in to read.

The second is...things like V-Wings are the way they are, because I've kept to their original incarnation. I don't know the reasoning behind it, but I've always tried to make it work. Giving them a damage bonus is then running into the first thing. They could technically change, but it is slightly bothering personally, kind of overriding what someone else did. I don't know what the attitude towards that is, since this is the first time I've been involved in such a thing like this.

The old hull system might be pretty simple, but I don't know why that was decided against. The current stats would...I think still be pretty usable? For the whole "immunities everywhere!" problem. Things like personal shields, and bypassing those etc is fairly neat so they'd probably stay?

Essentially I've...just tried to stick to what seemed to be rules, or a general desired idea, complete with all the difficulties associated. I'm just a volunteer - I don't want to go ripping up what Chris desired, for it is his game and all. Tried to work with what was there.


Despite that, can somewhat entertain a few ideas here. First, from my little Classic experiment the economy can be transferred over from what it is now, to nearly exactly what Classic had. A few adjustments from there, to compensate for unit caps being fairly different (which I did) and it seemed much better.

Second, setting the unit caps to increase by 0.5 per mark instead of 0.8 (of the original value, so cap of 60 = increases by 30 each Mark), then removing the damage bonuses increasing with Mark, then changing Starships to be Cap 2 instead of 1 (complete with different values) causes the scaling to match Classics exactly, e.g

Classic, 96 Mark 1 ships of 1x power, unlock Mark 2, 96 Mark 2 ships of 2x power (resulting in 3x total combined).
AIW2 copying it, 60 Mark 1 ships of 1x power, unlock Mark 2, 90 Mark 2 ships of 2x power (also resulting in 3x total combined).

(Apologies if I messed up that explanation, was hard to think of any way to do it).

That also fixes Starships scaling even better than Fleetships (because you can't increase a cap of 1 by 0.8, so it rounds up, the next one rounds up, and so on).

Third, units could get multiple bonuses. First have to note they're multiplicative, i.e if a 2x and a 4x bonus trigger, it ends up as a 8x result. This allows the interesting possibility of...a unit being able to be a small counter to target A with a 50% bonus, a better one to target B with a 100% bonus, but it gets both vs target C, resulting in a 300% bonus (damage increased by 100%, then that combined is increased by 50%). But as noted way above, this could get confusing and clutter things up, possibly. I didn't have trouble with it in Classic, so not sure how it is to others.

Lastly, the planet gravity well could be increased - this was mentioned previously. In testing this does allow you to be able to bypass a lot of the defenses of some AI planets, helping to reduce the annoying grind and compensating for the current lack of transports (far as I know, they will return). This is a fairly risky change, as it's not exactly possible to go BACK if it doesn't work out.

Just ideas to toy with. Not at all confident right now in being able to pull it off, though.
AI War II / Re: Nanocaust increases AIP?
« Last post by BadgerBadger on January 01, 2019, 09:33:57 AM »
The Nanocaust will increase AIP if it is player-allied. If it is not player allied then it does not increase AIP.
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