Arcen Games

Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: ricardol on May 16, 2017, 05:43:52 AM

Title: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: ricardol on May 16, 2017, 05:43:52 AM
Hey guys, I love a few of the Arcen Games just like most of you. However I'm curious as to which operating system you guys use and if you've had any problems playing the games on your system?
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Mánagarmr on May 16, 2017, 06:29:37 AM
I'm gonna kill this discussion off completely by saying: The operating system you feel comfortable using. Me I've used Windows from 3.11 to 10, and I've never felt home. So about ten years or so ago I started learning Linux and I've used both in parallell ever since. These days I'm about 95% Linux and 5% Windows. There are a few programs I can't get on Linux so I keep my Windows partition around for them.

That said, I've had no problems playing any Arcen game on either Windows or ArchLinux. None. I had some initial problems getting audio to work, but that was just a configuration error on my part.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: BadgerBadger on May 16, 2017, 08:45:56 AM
Yeah, pretty much anything works with Arcen. I run primarily on linux myself (Fedora).
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: TheVampire100 on May 16, 2017, 09:22:32 AM
If you have time and dedication to learn a little about computers and ürogramming, Linux is probably more worth for various reasons. It allows a more free customization and is more "open" towards it's programs and stuff then windows. However, you can also make a lot wrong if you don't know what to do and that's why you have to learn more than let's say Windows. Windows is good for people that are too lazy to learn how to use Linux (like myself), also most big companies develop their stuff mostly for Windows, so if you want to play big games, you won't get around the fact that you need at least a Windows partition. I would never go to Linux because it's too complicated for me and more work than worth my time.
Linux has however the nice effect that there are little viruses for it because almost no one bothers with learning it, lol.

Mac in my opinion falls flat out in every way. I really love my IPhone, its the best mobile phone I ever had but I would never get a whole PC from then because what windows is to Linux, Mac is to windows. Pretty much it's the most closed thing you will ever find,t here are almost no ways to customize or work around the system and if you want to do more to the system, you have to "break" it which removes every warranty you had on the system (and computer ebcause they are tied to it). Apple does not want others to see in their cards and don't want others to work on their stuff, that's why they are so overprotective of it and do not allow anyone to produce third company hardware or software for it. Of course you can make games and sofgtware for Apple/Mac but these have to get through their observation process and their own App store instead of having it on your own website for sell. (like Windows and Linux allow), which means every game you want to sell has to give some sort of revenue to Apple. Kinda like Steam but considering Apple is the owner of the entire computer you have, a lot more greedier.
Funny thing is, big companies prefer Apple/Mac over Linux.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: x4000 on May 16, 2017, 10:05:52 AM
Personally I'm a big fan of Windows 10, which I know will not earn me much love.  But it gets the job done, and just feels familiar to me.  That said, I've gotten pretty used to OSX in the last 6 years or so, and it's definitely no slouch.  Going back and forth between hotkeys on the two OSes is my biggest complaint.  That and the poorer OpenGL support on OSX.  And the generally underpowered hardware.

Linux is something I have used off and on since the 90s, RedHat 5 or so.  For servers I want nothing else; I can't imagine running a windows server these days.  As a desktop/laptop OS, I tend to be a bit more wary because of potential driver issues, and program compatibility issues.  But Virtual Machines are able to run very hardware-natively on most hardware now, so for cases where you absolutely need a windows install on a linux box, you aren't limited to dual boot. 

I got incredibly tired of the dual boot situation years ago, which is what pushed me off linux more.  Now I keep a dedicated laptop for linux instead.  WINE is also way better these days, and can even run most Arcen titles quite well.  I don't know how it will do with GPU Instancing in AI War 2, but all our other titles are DirectX9.  Either way, the support for the new Vulkan API is advancing primarily on Linux and Windows at the moment, and in some places faster on Linux (!), so I see a bright future for Linux if that holds true.

The main problem with a lot of linux machines is that they are either something you have to build yourself (and then pray the drivers work or do lots of research in advance), or which are geared towards business users and thus underpowered for gaming.  There are a variety of sites that make custom linux rigs that are tested out and built for you, either in laptop or desktop form.  I got my most recent linux laptop from System76, who I don't mind plugging because I'm really pleased with their work: https://system76.com/

When it comes to windows, Vista and 8 are both terribad for various reasons.  XP is incredibly dated and a big security vulnerability.  If you want lots of RAM and such, then 7 or 10 are the ways to go.  I didn't think anything would pry 7 away from me, but 10 has.  I wish it wasn't riddled with invasions of privacy, but you can turn those off.  There's a full-blown keylogger installed by default, which is pretty unforgivable.  If linux had as good a feel to me as windows, and the same compatibility, I have zero loyalty to Microsoft.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: keith.lamothe on May 16, 2017, 10:19:36 AM
I installed 10, then sawed off enough of its limbs that it stays out of my way while I get stuff done.

I prefer my OS's terrified.

Since linux now has native versions of Visual Studio and the Unity Editor, it's possible I'll make the switch in the next few years. My main concern is running into various bugs or omitted-features where the workaround is "use the windows version", but that should become less of a thing as things mature.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: BadgerBadger on May 16, 2017, 10:23:28 AM
It's worth pointing out that linux's driver issues have gotten WAY better over the years. Once upon a time you had to fight tooth and nail to make wireless or video work, but now things tend to work pretty effectively out of the box. AMD for example has been putting a ton of time and effort into their linux graphics drivers; they are pushing code into the kernel right now to support their next generation of graphics cards which aren't even on the market yet, so a recent linux distro will be able to support the cards from Day 1 that they go on sale.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: x4000 on May 16, 2017, 10:25:00 AM
That's awesome about AMD.

And the native versions of Visual Studio have been a big perking-up-of-my-ears as well.  Still no native version of the Unity Editor quite yet, but that's getting close.  It's been in beta for a long while now.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Draco18s on May 16, 2017, 10:38:28 AM
I don't like 10 myself. No one will pry 7 out of my fingers, not even if I'm dead.

10, as an OS I don't think I have any real objections to. Maybe a few things that are leftover from 8, but not anything I really have to deal with (although the settings "app" feels a lot more like Mac where it hides things from you because it would be "dangerous" to fiddle with those things). No, my objections these days are mostly down to how Microsoft is acting. They've done some really morally questionable things lately. Everyone's always grumbled about how Windows tries to get you to use the built in browser (and how garbage it is) but this is worse. File Explorer now shows advertisements for Microsoft's paid cloud storage solution.

I'm sorry, what? No. That is not appropriate. How is Windows allowed to get away with THE feature that defines adware and PUPs? On top of that, they use desktop notifications to push other applications and services, like suggesting Edge because it uses less battery than Chrome. (Hilariously I got one of those "see what apps are draining your battery" notification the other day and Skype was dominating the list by a factor of 4. 56% drain compared to Chrome at 14%, despite 1/8th the usage time; right now for the last 24 hours its only double: 28% to 15% with Visual Studio in between at 17%).
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: x4000 on May 16, 2017, 11:24:11 AM
Sadly: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2974057/windows/how-to-turn-off-windows-10s-keylogger-yes-it-still-has-one.html
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Mánagarmr on May 16, 2017, 12:38:16 PM
I got incredibly tired of the dual boot situation years ago, which is what pushed me off linux more. 
Funny, that's the exact reason that made me stick with Linux. :)
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: x4000 on May 16, 2017, 01:06:42 PM
I got incredibly tired of the dual boot situation years ago, which is what pushed me off linux more. 
Funny, that's the exact reason that made me stick with Linux. :)

I like Visual Studio, and all my other work applications pretty much require windows.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Aklyon on May 16, 2017, 10:13:26 PM
I don't like 10 myself. No one will pry 7 out of my fingers, not even if I'm dead.

10, as an OS I don't think I have any real objections to. Maybe a few things that are leftover from 8, but not anything I really have to deal with (although the settings "app" feels a lot more like Mac where it hides things from you because it would be "dangerous" to fiddle with those things). No, my objections these days are mostly down to how Microsoft is acting. They've done some really morally questionable things lately. Everyone's always grumbled about how Windows tries to get you to use the built in browser (and how garbage it is) but this is worse. File Explorer now shows advertisements for Microsoft's paid cloud storage solution.

I'm sorry, what? No. That is not appropriate. How is Windows allowed to get away with THE feature that defines adware and PUPs? On top of that, they use desktop notifications to push other applications and services, like suggesting Edge because it uses less battery than Chrome. (Hilariously I got one of those "see what apps are draining your battery" notification the other day and Skype was dominating the list by a factor of 4. 56% drain compared to Chrome at 14%, despite 1/8th the usage time; right now for the last 24 hours its only double: 28% to 15% with Visual Studio in between at 17%).
Same here. I'm not messing with 10 unless its on someone else's machine.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Dominus Arbitrationis on May 16, 2017, 10:24:13 PM
I don't like 10 myself. No one will pry 7 out of my fingers, not even if I'm dead.

10, as an OS I don't think I have any real objections to. Maybe a few things that are leftover from 8, but not anything I really have to deal with (although the settings "app" feels a lot more like Mac where it hides things from you because it would be "dangerous" to fiddle with those things). No, my objections these days are mostly down to how Microsoft is acting. They've done some really morally questionable things lately. Everyone's always grumbled about how Windows tries to get you to use the built in browser (and how garbage it is) but this is worse. File Explorer now shows advertisements for Microsoft's paid cloud storage solution.

I'm sorry, what? No. That is not appropriate. How is Windows allowed to get away with THE feature that defines adware and PUPs? On top of that, they use desktop notifications to push other applications and services, like suggesting Edge because it uses less battery than Chrome. (Hilariously I got one of those "see what apps are draining your battery" notification the other day and Skype was dominating the list by a factor of 4. 56% drain compared to Chrome at 14%, despite 1/8th the usage time; right now for the last 24 hours its only double: 28% to 15% with Visual Studio in between at 17%).
Same here. I'm not messing with 10 unless its on someone else's machine.

What version of Windows 10 are you guys looking at? On my Surface Pro 4 (Windows 10 Pro), I don't see any ads on the File Explorer, or any of the apps I use. That might be because I have OneDrive and all that through my second job and school, though.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Mánagarmr on May 17, 2017, 03:53:20 AM
Well, it's not entirely true that it's *just* for those people. It's more the fact that using Linux gives you completely different troubles than using Windows does. Using Windows there's usually a file you download that takes care of any problems for you, while in Linux you are kind of expected to know your way around the system and find a config file to edit instead.

That said, there's a huge difference between distros. Archlinux and gentoo are pretty hardcore when it comes to installing and configuring, while Mint and Ubuntu are essentially "plug and play" and a lot simpler than Windows.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: ChereEastland on May 17, 2017, 07:52:32 AM
I've always been using Windows as my main os, but to be honest I don't like it too much. Though there could be a lot of problems with Windows, There (http://lord-of-the-ocean-slot.com) will always be a lot of problem decisions easily found in google because of big userbase, thus I recommend Win for not very experienced users.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: x4000 on May 17, 2017, 09:17:49 AM
What version of Windows 10 are you guys looking at? On my Surface Pro 4 (Windows 10 Pro), I don't see any ads on the File Explorer, or any of the apps I use. That might be because I have OneDrive and all that through my second job and school, though.

Mostly since the creators update.  But if you already have skype and onedrive and office 365, it won't advertise to you much.  When you use edge as your "chrome or firefox retrieval software" as it was intended, though, it inserts some ads for edge right in the google search results talking about how much better edge is for battery life.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Mánagarmr on May 17, 2017, 03:24:00 PM
Mostly since the creators update.  But if you already have skype and onedrive and office 365, it won't advertise to you much.  When you use edge as your "chrome or firefox retrieval software" as it was intended, though, it inserts some ads for edge right in the google search results talking about how much better edge is for battery life.
Now that *really* rubs me the wrong way.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Draco18s on May 17, 2017, 03:49:32 PM
What version of Windows 10 are you guys looking at? On my Surface Pro 4 (Windows 10 Pro), I don't see any ads on the File Explorer, or any of the apps I use. That might be because I have OneDrive and all that through my second job and school, though.

I'll admit that I haven't seen the ad on my work issued laptop, I've only read about it, and at the time it was not something that was showing for everyone, just a select few, kind of a market test that might go out to everyone. Even if it doesn't, the idea that they even considered it is a problem.

Also, if you already have OneDrive that might do it too: no point in telling you about the service, you already have it.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: ricardol on May 18, 2017, 07:57:07 AM
Definitely the predominant sentiment I've heard in the past few months has been that Linux is more for people who are keen to learn coding and how to set it up, and that Windows is for more "lazy" people. I've been using Windows for the last 3 years, however I've had a few crashes and I really think I will switch in the next 3 weeks because of the greater flexibility and greater security. Reading this made me understand Linux (https://www.we don't fall for that.com/digitalguide/server/know-how/linux-the-cost-effective-alternative-to-windows/), so maybe it'll help you guys.

Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: z99-_ on May 18, 2017, 09:21:16 AM
When you use edge as your "chrome or firefox retrieval software" as it was intended, though, it inserts some ads for edge right in the google search results talking about how much better edge is for battery life.

As an edge main myself, I feel it only fair to point out that every time I use chrome for certain apps that require it, I always get a message from google inviting me to make chrome my default browser. Worse yet, the "No Thanks" button link is now purple instead of blue (because I clicked it before), so they have a memory of me not being interested, yet they still keep showing it!
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Mánagarmr on May 18, 2017, 12:59:48 PM
When you use edge as your "chrome or firefox retrieval software" as it was intended, though, it inserts some ads for edge right in the google search results talking about how much better edge is for battery life.

As an edge main myself, I feel it only fair to point out that every time I use chrome for certain apps that require it, I always get a message from google inviting me to make chrome my default browser. Worse yet, the "No Thanks" button link is now purple instead of blue (because I clicked it before), so they have a memory of me not being interested, yet they still keep showing it!
This is hardly unique for Chrome. Every single browser that is not set to be your default will, without fail, ask you every time you open it if you want to set it as your default. Firefox, Chrome, Edge, Opera etc.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Aklyon on May 18, 2017, 03:39:18 PM
When you use edge as your "chrome or firefox retrieval software" as it was intended, though, it inserts some ads for edge right in the google search results talking about how much better edge is for battery life.

As an edge main myself, I feel it only fair to point out that every time I use chrome for certain apps that require it, I always get a message from google inviting me to make chrome my default browser. Worse yet, the "No Thanks" button link is now purple instead of blue (because I clicked it before), so they have a memory of me not being interested, yet they still keep showing it!
This is hardly unique for Chrome. Every single browser that is not set to be your default will, without fail, ask you every time you open it if you want to set it as your default. Firefox, Chrome, Edge, Opera etc.
They also give you the option to disable that check.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: chemical_art on May 21, 2017, 11:55:30 PM
Windows 7 fulfills my needs, and for at least the mid term future shall continue to do so.  Until I am unhappy with the system, I feel no need to change.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: carldong on May 23, 2017, 12:45:27 AM
I can never stress my passion on Linux (or any open source systems, like FreeBSD) more. Most of the time, when I buy a game, I always check for Linux support, and no Linux support == no sell for you ;)!

As a user who has built LFS multiple times... I find that I would be very tempted to hack (and break) my linux installations.

And then, I am equally tempted to hack my Windows installations, which creates a much bigger problem because basically fix = reinstallation.

Every time I use Linux desktops, (even KDE!), I marvel how much more responsive they are than the Windows 10 installation on the same computer. Yes, KDE 5 bleeding-edge does crash occasionally, and I do need some software that runs Windows-only, so I keep a copy of Windows 10 around, for emergency use. I ran on pure Windows 10 for a few months before, but there is the problem about auto-restarting after update that cannot be solved by any amount of Registry/Group Policy fiddling, and I gave up and wiped the drive and installed a Linux on a crazily complicated setup (Gentoo on bcache with RAID 10 cache plus btrfs spanning multiple volumes), which is... hard, but is also crazy fast and makes me feel better, anyways.

And Linux get a LOT more usable than when I got started at around 2010, especially after Adobe Flash finally fades out of Internet (yes, I can finally use it perfectly fine without installing Flash!). For new users, staying stable with Ubuntu/Fedora is quite good, and I actually think GNOME/KDE are much better than the Windows interface (and difference between command line is just like heaven and... the other place). If you don't miss Cortana, of course. It is more useful on tablets and phones, but probably less so on laptops and desktops, I guess.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Mánagarmr on May 23, 2017, 02:23:44 AM
As a user who has built LFS multiple times...
I still need to do this some time. I just need a spare computer :P

especially after Adobe Flash finally fades out of Internet (yes, I can finally use it perfectly fine without installing Flash!). For new users, staying stable with Ubuntu/Fedora is quite good, and I actually think GNOME/KDE are much better than the Windows interface (and difference between command line is just like heaven and... the other place). If you don't miss Cortana, of course. It is more useful on tablets and phones, but probably less so on laptops and desktops, I guess.
Thank god for the death of Flash. Flash was horrible and still is. There are still remnants of flash used on websites to this day, and it's awful.

Funny also how Microsoft, with every new release of windows, just copies KDE wholesale. I find that amusing, but not necessarily bad. I like KDE, so if I can use the same interface when I have to use Windows, that's good for me ^^
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Misery on May 23, 2017, 05:30:38 AM
I'm stuck with the diseased awfulness that is Windows 10, myself.  Hate it.

Windows 7 was much better..... sort of.   Okay, it was still garbage.  But it was FUNCTIONAL garbage, and it wasn't made of spyware or whatever.  10 is basically just a giant bag of cat turds that someone somehow turned into an operating system.  With a sledgehammer, probably, considering how stable it is.

Just... ugh.

I don't use Linux because 99% of the stuff on this machine wouldn't function with it.  Useless to me.  It's very unfortunate that M$ has the blasted monopoly that they do with this.  And of course I cant just go back to 7, because the dark overlords at Microsoft sucked it out of every conceivable store ever.  Not sure how they did that, but I assume that there were blood sacrifices involved. I've never been able to find it ANYWHERE, or I'd have downgraded the funky heck outta this machine without hesitation, followed by flinging confetti around the room.  Or just had it installed when this thing was built.  But nope, gotta have 10 instead.


Bah.  Honestly I just miss DOS.  It *only* did what you told it.  Nothing else.  I've never been able to completely get along with Windows or anything similar.  The idea of the bloody thing sitting there DOING stuff that I A: never told it to do, and B: probably don't want it to do (which sums up almost every conceivable Windows function), bothers me.

I at least haven't had to reformat this one yet.   Laptop is about to get that treatment though.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Mánagarmr on May 23, 2017, 08:41:47 AM
DOS was a clusterf%&¤ of it's own merit. Memory management was a complete PITA on DOS, requiring manual editing of system configuration files and reboots. It also (initially) had absolutely no memory protection so programs could happily invade eachother. That said, not a lot of programs could be run concurrently either.

If you truly miss DOS, just get Archlinux. It's a functional DOS :P

That said, I know your pain with being stuck in Windows-based software. I've been slowly wrestling myself free over the course of 10 years, but there's still a few programs I absolutely HAVE to have Windows for, as they will not run in a VM, nor in Wine and I've not found alternative software to adequately replace them.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: keith.lamothe on May 23, 2017, 09:44:16 AM
On DOS, you did not manage memory. Memory managed you.

Oh, HIMEM.SYS, what did I ever do to you? EMM386, where did we go wrong?

Sorry, MSCDEX, yes, I'm removing you now that I've installed the game off CD, and now need the memory space you take up to actually run the thing!
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Mánagarmr on May 23, 2017, 10:16:00 AM
On DOS, you did not manage memory. Memory managed you.

Oh, HIMEM.SYS, what did I ever do to you? EMM386, where did we go wrong?

Sorry, MSCDEX, yes, I'm removing you now that I've installed the game off CD, and now need the memory space you take up to actually run the thing!
This, in essence.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: carldong on May 23, 2017, 12:08:59 PM
Funny also how Microsoft, with every new release of windows, just copies KDE wholesale. I find that amusing, but not necessarily bad. I like KDE, so if I can use the same interface when I have to use Windows, that's good for me ^^

Not "copying", but takes four times more memory with it. Although my slight complain about KDE is that it is wayyyy too colorful. Hurts my eyes.

If only I can circumvent that pesky reboot-after-update problem I would probably still be using it. If only I can get a copy of Questasim for Linux... Then I can abandon Windows all along (but then my license key is wasted. Damn sunk cost!)

BTW, I actually tried to use KVM/QEMU to do a GPU passthrough, and run a Windows under Linux VM, with full graphical power, with some level of success. Yes, you need two graphics cards, one for host, one for guest. Yes, you need two keyboards and mice if you don't want to accidentally exit the guest (which makes it feel like two computers installed in a single case). Yes, GPU performs excellently, though CPU is somewhat less ideal. So, unless a game has cheat-protection that doesn't allow VM run, it should mostly run natively on this set up.

Although, I found it terribly difficult to use because I don't have two mice/keyboards. and constantly have to switch monitor to move cursors between host and guest. And, added with the fact that QEMU doesn't have very good clipboard support, guest interaction is not very ideal either.

In conclusion, let's wait for the era of GPU Virtualization. Maybe then we can have truly parallel dual systems.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Misery on May 24, 2017, 06:14:21 AM
DOS was a clusterf%&¤ of it's own merit. Memory management was a complete PITA on DOS, requiring manual editing of system configuration files and reboots. It also (initially) had absolutely no memory protection so programs could happily invade eachother. That said, not a lot of programs could be run concurrently either.

If you truly miss DOS, just get Archlinux. It's a functional DOS :P

That said, I know your pain with being stuck in Windows-based software. I've been slowly wrestling myself free over the course of 10 years, but there's still a few programs I absolutely HAVE to have Windows for, as they will not run in a VM, nor in Wine and I've not found alternative software to adequately replace them.

See, I went through the entire DOS era having none of these problems, and I used those PCs just as much as I use my current one... was still a big PC gamer even in the really ancient days, back when CGA games were still a big thing (all of the possible palettes for that are burned permanently into my memory).  Every now and then I'd have to do something screwy to get a game to run, this is true. 

However.... when I found the right settings or whatever, IT JUST STAYED THAT WAY.   I didn't have to worry about it suddenly deciding to shove virtual knives up it's nose and run around making bird sounds instead of doing what I told it to.  Once it was set to do something, it was *really* set.  And then unless I changed something myself.... nothing got changed.  High end PCs performed like high end PCs, and they STAYED that way.  They didn't start to just randomly devolve into a gibbering mess over time like Windows does, because they were utterly without that capability.  Windows, however, makes it's own changes (usually stupid ones) whether I want it to or not.   Really, after way too much time with this sort of crap, I can see why some people actually go back to those ancient machines and take a real interest in them.  I've been considering getting an old 386/486 machine myself to mess with.  Or just fixing one of the 15 or so I have in a closet for no apparent reason.  Lots of good games from that era, it'd be worth it.   Wheras Windows can even screw THOSE up.  I'll say that my experiences with DOSBox are.... well, lots of facepalming.  Which is one reason why the idea of just getting an ancient PC set up instead is appealing lately.

The only thing I found really annoying in that era was the mice (well, once those became a thing, anyway).  You know.... ball mice.  I used to clean them out by taking out the ball, and stabbing the rollers with my car key over and over.  I'm glad I don't have to do THAT anymore.   That and install times of lengthy doom.  Well, I never minded that all that much though to be honest.  The ways that Windows makes me wait are sooooooo much more irritating. 
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Mánagarmr on May 24, 2017, 10:58:48 AM
Well, DOS was hardly without it's problems and it certainly was a mess when it came to memory (mis)management, but I will absolutely agree that Windows is even more of a mess. What they gained in memory management (at least there IS protected memory now!) they lost in reliability.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Cyborg on May 25, 2017, 12:35:16 AM
I use Linux all day. I find it weird that the Linux culture is still getting enjoyment out of complaining about Windows, when a huge amount of Linux is clearly inspired by Windows. I can write pages and pages of why Linux sucks. But let's just do a few.

1) "It works on my distro!"
2) "You need a driver? Write it yourself, nub."
3) "I hate Windows, Microsoft is so dumb." *whistles while virtualizing Windows in Linux*
4) Compatibility hell. Windows users don't know how good they have it.
5) Automounter spellcasting.
6) Config file harassment.

Being a power user of Linux means spending more time trying to get the computer to do as you want than doing what you want. If you just want to get crap done and have it work, I still prefer Windows. And yes, I have been using Linux every day of my life for about 13 years. I can do the crazy crap, but it sucks, and I don't enjoy it. I prefer Windows, even with all the Microsoft bs that I am well aware of.

Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: Misery on May 25, 2017, 01:35:35 AM
Well, DOS was hardly without it's problems and it certainly was a mess when it came to memory (mis)management, but I will absolutely agree that Windows is even more of a mess. What they gained in memory management (at least there IS protected memory now!) they lost in reliability.

At the very least it'd be nice if Windows as a whole would stop corroding over time.  I mean, each new iteration just makes it more awful than it already is.  And M$ gets away with it, because of course they do.

The fact that the horrid thing is capable of spraying ads is particularly terrible.   Just yet another problem added to an OS that basically is just one giant problem.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: chemical_art on September 02, 2017, 09:03:12 PM
I wanted to necro this thread because over the summer I have started to dabble with the cryptocurrency market.

As someone who never used 10 before this adventure, I will say that setting up systems was simply a breeze. I love 7 to death and I still have a legacy hard drive for niche products with it. But for my 3 new computers I used 10. Compared to 7:
-They could read USB devices out of the package
-They started about 50% faster
-I don't have to find a driver for every little thing

These are features that are not particularly hard to overcome, but when trying to run 3 workstations time is literally money and I'd rather it just work out of the gate rather then every. hardware. change. requiring pulling out the ethernet cord for drivers. For basic tasks I am finding 10 more stable then 7 across the board.

Again, my legacy drive, which I use for pleasure rather then business, still uses 7. But that's as much because it has 5 years of drivers loaded into it and I am trying to keep the 10 drive "clean" for at least a little while.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: eRe4s3r on September 03, 2017, 07:28:13 AM
It's also worth noting that W10 does in fact not fix the "driverstore" bloat... as I just discovered last evening.... cleaning a good 9gb of wasted space from my SSD from Nvidia drivers which thanks to GeForce Experience auto-updated and bloated the entire w10 install by a whopping 21gb altogether. (Installer2, GeForce Experience, Unpack directory, driver-store) ;/

So yeah, they (MS) really did not fix anything when it comes to W10, it still degrades over time ;/ But the situation with GPU drivers is imo totally unacceptable. Nvidia ships drivers that are unpacked 1.3gb PER version.
Title: Re: Which operating system do you guys recommend?
Post by: chemical_art on September 03, 2017, 09:58:41 AM
Yes I imagine that is a problem, but I wonder if that is just a part of the nature of the business. I don't feel like an operating system should dictate things such as that to programs. Not like they have the power to enforce it anyway. It would be nice if the vendors saved space, but driver upkeep goes under "maintenance" in a business and that never has been a strong suit for any business, not just in computers.

As for driverware bloat, that is a similar boat. I would imagine it would take some intrusive, resource intensive work to try to determine which drivers are no longer needed and that would result in minimal gains with plenty of cases of key drivers being deleted. Assuming the user doesn't just start downloading drivers outside the system, which is also almost inevitable.