Author Topic: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative  (Read 14144 times)

Offline vonduus

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2010, 08:03:19 am »
A comment on x4k's argument about farmers:

If you take a summer trip through the countryside in this small northeuropean country where I am living, you will see a lot of small unmanned stands along the road, where farmers put their potatoes and other vegetables for sale. If you want to buy some, you take the potatoes and put money in a little box. If you want to steal some, nothing is easier than just taking the potatoes without paying.

I believe quite a few people don't pay for the potatoes they take. But the fact that the farmers continue to put their potatoes for sale like this shows me that most people actually pay. Farmers are generally not filantropists, in my experience. But this again means that the great majority of people in this country must be honest, when it comes to buying potatoes. This whole country road trade system is based on trust.

I guess most people feel the same about software: The great majority will want to pay for their games, because they basically are honest people. Even if they are anonymous and have the chance to steal and get away with it, most people will pay anyway.

My point is, that if game wholesalers continue to treat me as a person that cannot be trusted, even after I have payed for my game, I will eventually stop giving them my money. Either I will buy directly from the farmer (in this case Arcen Games), or I will become a pirate.

To me the whole issue centers on trust. The big corporations openly demonstrate that they do not trust me. They stigmatize me as a potential pirate, even after I have payed. And when you as a customer realizes, that you cannot really trust the big corporations themselves, because they keep charging you for faulty software that doesn't get fixed, or insist on installing malware on your computer (remember Starforce?), you may feel inclined to not pay: They tell me I am not a person to be trusted, no matter what I do, okay: I shall show them that I am a person not to be trusted! (revenge!!!!). Perhaps a childish reaction, but I know a lot of grownups, all of them honest people, who feels this way. So it is not only me.

SEGA is another of those untrustful, untrustworthy big corporations. In a few weeks they release Napoleon Total War. I absolutely do not want to do any more business with SEGA, or Steam, for that matter, because they cheated on me with Empire Total War. But I absolutely want to play Napoleon Total War, to me it is a must-have, and even if CA really did 'sell  out', as some people claim, I want to try their new game, I have been a Total War fan ever since Shogun.  See my dilemma?
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Offline Captain Cake

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2010, 12:07:13 am »
What I don't understand is how this really helps anything aside from pissing people off. There are free WoW servers so clearly that idea isn't bulletproof. What's there to stop me from running a service on my computer and routing all the ports its trying to connect to back to my computer. Or just end up with a crack that removes all the checking.... I just don't get Ubisoft anymore :(
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Offline Kordy

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2010, 02:06:10 am »
Huh. Didn't they release the last Prince of Persia game without any DRM at all?

Weird.

Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2010, 09:10:21 am »
If humanity as a whole was to say abolish the monytary system, and move towards a resource based system where all human where provided for with food, drink, housing, health, communication access, all basic needs. Then we could fianlly see nice things start to emerge and people making games for the pleasure of making them, and it could be distributed freely to everyone who wants to play em.


Maybe this is just a "dream world", but the sad thing is humans could pull it off if we got off our asses, we got enough resources on the planet to provide for all of us, and we got the technology to do it. All we really lack is the, I guess, education and understanding that we do, and that it could benefit us all.

I realise something like this may not happen for hunderds of years (cause lets face it, our monetary system and current sosical structure can not last indefinatly). But I can dream ;)

What you're describing is not very different from Communism. Unfortunately, it is an idealistic system that looked good on paper but has never worked in practice and wound up being exploited by those in power.

Humans are imperfect beings, and as such, we require self gratifying motivation and reward for EVERYTHING we do. That means we need money, and always will. It's of no use to point out exceptions to this rule, either, because you're speaking in very, very broad terms and an exception here and there is no way to support the concept that such a system could ever work for humankind at any point in the foreseeable future.

So yeah, one can dream, but I prefer to be realistic and make the most of the fact that I was lucky enough to be born into a first world country.  ;) It's not a perfect existence, and it shows off a lot of the flaws we possess as a species, but it's still much better than the alternative.

The main difference with me "view" and communism is that in commuism your ass belongs to everyone, while with my view your ass belongs only to yourself. ;) Its maybe a subtle difference, but non the less an extreemly impiortent one. It may not have come across well, but in my fututre world all basic needs are provided for, by technology and automated systems. Humans themself is then free to do as they please, be it art, games, science, travell etc etc. And we are quite capable of working towards such a system.

In communism everyone is also "paied" the same, but in my view there is no money ;).

I very much disagree that we always will need money tho. I do not think so at all. We are currently conditioned by ourselfs to belive money is the source of everything, but its not so. Money is just very well worked into our culture, almost too well imo. We measure everything in money, and I think that its hurting us more then it is giving us rewards. We like mony rewards since we are told its a good thing.

The way our monetary system actually works is really stopping us form advancing to a better future, and its also what is keeping others down. Because everything revolves around money, everyone wants it. But here is the big flaw, everyone can not have all the money, money come at thw expence of others. As long as we have such a system we will never get rid of poverty, we will awlays have a lower class of peole and we will awlays have the ones at the "top" loarding others with their money.

Money worked when we had scarcity of resources, but we really do not have that anymore, so it becomes only an artificial value. Imposed on ourself by ourself since birth. We grow up with it and accept it. But that not mean we can not think criticaly about it.

I really do not think money as a reward is what people want or need deep down. I really don't. People deep down really want to be happy, happiness can be derived from so many other sources or self expression. Friends, familiy, the community, self, art, knowledge, sharing etc. Money is not one of them from my expereince. Its just means to an end. So I really propose to skip the means and go straight for the end ;).

I can only speak for myself here, but I do belive others may feel the same even if they have not really thought of it to much; I got an ok job and thus an ok economy (good enough to provide all my basic needs like food and shelter), but I still feel pretty indifferent towards it, it gives me nothing of real value. However, when I am visitng frinds and familiy, I expereince value, I am really happy.

I have also expereined being what could be deifned as poor during my student days. Having to worry about if I can pay the rent and have enough food is not pleasent indeed. And even then I always had backup to turn to if needed like family and frinds, but I never did since I wanted to get through it myself.


As for humans being imperfet? No, not at all. Because what is perfect then? Humans are humans, we are who we want to be. We got nothing to comapre ourself to and say we are imperfect, or perfect. I therefore choose to not use such absolute definitions that really does not make any sense. The notion of "perfect" does not really exist in reality and using it is really detremental to ourself. I mean, saying that we are imperfect is really a quite a negative way of thinking about ourself, especailly since there is no reason to use the word in the first place to describe us. We are who we are, and we are quite capable of changing ourself if we wish to do so, as we have done in the past. I am human, the most advanced lifeform we know of, and damn proud of it! ;)

But make no mistake, I am quite happy I live in Norway, its a pretty darn good country, and I am lucky to be born here. That does not mean I am simply content when I think that there is still room for improvement. Here is the only time I can use the word perfect: To strive towards perfection, to ever better ourself. I belive that is a good goal, even tho being perfect is impossible.

I dream of such a future, but I also do belive it is possible. Really. As for when, and if we get there, that is another matter :P. So as you say I do live in reality, and i am very well aware fo how that reality affects me, but giving up hope for a better future makes me feel too shallow and unfullfiled. I like striving for something that is better, not just for me but for the ones I care for. I think we can do it as a specis if we want to, we simply need to raise teh issue and become aware.

I always was the one to think critically of our society tho, and my suroundings. I like to think about such things, and as such my views are never absolute either. I don't like absolute terms, everything is shades fo gray with me ;). And I can go on at lengt about this (and possibly try and make my views more clear, but I never was the good writer), but I won't here (as I am typing from work right now, hehe).

Anyways hope I get my points across. I am not trying to be rude or anything (hope I do not come across as anything like that), I just very much like discussing such things.
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Offline deMangler

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2010, 12:10:59 pm »
LOL.   ;D
I love the way threads on this forum just keep getting more irresistablly interesting....
In any case... for the people discussing communism and money, it seems that you might be interested in reading a book called "The Dispossesed" By Ursula leGuin.

The book is not about communism, or money. But I am always wanting to introduce people who discuss those issues to this book. It really does explore some of the good ideas that people throw around when discussing subjects like this, as well as being a really good read.
Also, in general as an exploration of the nature of property it kind of fits this thread.

Another enormously good and funny short story for anyone interested in these ideas is a story called "And Then There Were None" by Eric Frank Russell, which I have just dicovered is available to read on-line here.
Again, not about communism or money exactly, but has fun with some of the ideas that are often mis-used by communist and socialist thinkers.
dM
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 12:12:30 pm by deMangler »

Offline Chimpster

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2010, 07:09:51 pm »
But wait, there's more...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/98396-Ubisoft-Online-DRM-Its-Worse-Than-Expected

- Yep, you now have to have a constant connection to the Ubisoft servers in order to play the game at all!

Where does this end?

Skip forward 10 years;
"Assassins Creed 5 will ship with the latest anti pirate technology where if someone stops paying £1 an hour to play the game on our dedicated servers, we use an orbital platform to nuke their house into atomic dust. We figured people won't have a problem with this because who would want to stop playing this incredible new game unless they were planning to steal it and use it for free? Since people live under the threat of nuclear apocalypse every day we figure one more nuke pointing at their house won't make any difference!"

Offline vonduus

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2010, 07:49:23 pm »
@ Ozymandias: I so much agree with your views on money vs. happiness and on the non-reality of absolute ideas that I only want to add this: Perfection does not exist in reality, as you correctly claim, nor does necessity nor consistency. These notions are all absolutes, ie. ideal. Nothing is really perfect, nothing is really necessary, nothing is really consistent, except in our minds (and I suspect not even there, if we take a closer look). I am not saying that ideas are not important, on the contrary, without principles we could not think at all. But really great thinking can only be accomplished by those who dare to think against all what we habitually believe are absolute principles. Believing money is an absolut value is the madness of our times. When principles go mad, the guy with no principles is sane. You are from Norway, you must have read Arne Næss. I quote: "There is an abyss between what everybody believes and the truth. Consensus can never guarantee truth." (Arne Næss: Livsfilosofi, my translation).

@ those who do not know Arne Næss: He is a norwegian philosopher, known by most elderly scandinavian logicians for his early works on modern logic. Now he is retired, writing books on "Livsfilosofi" = "Lebensphilosophie" - is there an english word for this? Life philosophy? No, wrong connotations. Anyway, I am a great fan of this guy, he is a logician who tells us not to take logic too seriously.

Note: this post is not an overflow of Norwegian pride, on the contrary, I am Danish, and as such I am expected not to like foreigners. But I belong to the minority in this country who actually like even Norwegians, in spite of the fact that they talk funny and cannot spell ;).

@ demangler: Thanks for the link to the Frank Russell text, it is a great read. I am too tired to comment on it now (and this post would be far too long). I will go tomorrow and see if I can find a copy of the leGuin text, I am a great  fan of her, too, but I never read  this one.

Oh, and what has all this to do with the topic of this thread? I guess it is a way of complimenting x4k for his ability to really think instead of just blindly applying those absolute principles I am sure he was taught when he learned about business economy.


@ Chimpsters: Thanks for keeping us up to date on the madness of this world. Have these people never watched Monty Python and the Flying Circus?
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Offline quickstix

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2010, 07:40:15 am »
A group of engineers go into the stock market with high aspirations of making it rich. They carry the logical and common sense mentality of, 'It's just a system, we can figure it out.'

A week later they give up. The reason, 'Damm. People are confusing.'

Human beings are strange creatures. All the power and resources we could ever need, and yet so many issues on our world.

---

On topic: Not. Happy. Jan. (It's an Aussie injoke). Comments thread at Rock Paper Shotgun has exploded, and rightly so. People need to realise that prevention is better than cure. Until companies realise they need to address why people are pirating their games in the first place instead of treating legitimate consumers like crap, piracy will still remain a significant problem. So not only are they losing money from usual piracy, Ubisoft will now lose even more profits from the disgruntled consumer, as unlike securom and activation limits this is an extremely noticable form of piracy that even non-gamers will notice and be annoyed by.

This is why Arcen Games will continue to see my support. Not only does the CEO have business sense, but also has a deep understanding of the field of development the company is involved in.

I'll send more money, you send more stuff. :P

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2010, 05:10:38 am »
I loved Assassin's Creed and the Silent Hunter series. I even own the Collector's Edition of Silent Hunter IV (in spite of it's crappy buggyness), but neither AC2 or SHV will make it for me. Why? That ******* DRM. I will never, ever EVER support that kind of crap with my money. Goodbye UBI! I will not miss your rushed releases and buggy games, nor your mistreatment of your customers with DRM.

I respect indie developers or companies that go "I make a living with this. I have no DRM in my game, save for a serial key. Please don't pirate it." That line alone makes me buy the game just to support them. I pre-ordered Achron. Not because I overly like the game, but because the developers are sane. Sane developers need to get ahead in this world.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 02:23:25 am by Moonshine Fox »
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Offline Spikey00

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2010, 04:59:07 pm »
Apart from the DRM, I'm seeing overwhelming amounts of games during this year being released without LAN support.

Circumventing for it exists,
- Hilarious in the case of SupCom 2 where they failed in preventing illegal copies from connecting to their legitimate servers in consequence of their "oh-so-perfect" coding.  The only outcome here was incurring a minor inconvenience to pirates, and frustrating the real players.  Not acceptable.
- We all know that Starcraft 2 will be cracked within a few moments when it is released.
- Yet again, we all know that all software will be cracked eventually, and there is no stopping hackers/crackers in doing so.

I don't find this amusing--all for preventing pirating by cutting out a significant functionality from the game.
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2010, 02:28:17 am »
That is the problem with DRM. It's easily circumented and results in either minor or major grievances for the legitimate customer. I was overjoyed when Bioware released Mass Effect 2 without any DRM whatsoever (save for a serial key). It meant I could install and play the game without hassle. Then again, since I bought it over Steam it had its own kind of DRM, but it's much less of a hassle than say...Star Force. Steam can at least be put in offline mode, thank god.
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Offline orzelek

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2010, 01:48:47 pm »
Actually not only Ubisoft is like that - others hide this a bit:
Dragon Age - after you use any DLC you need to log in to authenticate it before save loads
C&C 4 - no idea if I can even start game without logging in

All this online community and accounts thing is getting seriously out of hand. Soon we will have no ability to play anything without logging in somewhere before that.... AI War nad other indie titles should be exceptions but the mainstream is going downhill fast...
(I wont mention the fact that DA addin was available on torrents few days before it unlocked for me which is pathetic.. )

Offline Spikey00

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2010, 04:09:57 pm »
Mass Effect 2--the Cerberus network is slightly on the DRM side.  I can assume similar to Dragon Age because they created that close to the time they developed ME2.

Ugh, PC gaming takes another hit.
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Offline Rod Serling

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2010, 04:39:29 pm »
Cerberus Network is actually LESS anti-DRM, and more anti-GSRUGFPPTTDPNGAO (GameStop Reselling Used Games For Pure Profit That The Developers/Publishers Never Get Any Of)

It's easy enough to simply turn off.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2010, 02:25:51 am »
Mass Effect 2--the Cerberus network is slightly on the DRM side.  I can assume similar to Dragon Age because they created that close to the time they developed ME2.

Ugh, PC gaming takes another hit.
Not entirely true. You are not FORCED to connect to the Cerberus network on login, and you are never forced to. If you simply turn the connection off, you can run any "illicit" DLC you wish, the game will not complain. It only validates DLC when you are actually online and connected. I have tested. So that's a solution I can accept; it checks when it is allowed to connect. (That said, I always have mine connected to get news and be informed of new free DLC stuff.)
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