Author Topic: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE  (Read 135693 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #420 on: September 05, 2014, 09:31:13 pm »
I haven't played starcraft 2, but TA was significantly slower paced (to me) than the original starcraft.  From what I've seen of youtube videos of PA the pacing is similar to TA.  It seems to allow time to think, given decent mental agility.
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #421 on: September 05, 2014, 11:29:12 pm »
I don't think so, but why wouldn't you have an internet connection?

You clearly haven't experienced "the best" that US internet has to offer if you've made this comment....

*To expand*

For the majority of my life, I've had to deal with slow to extremely poor internet speeds, constant drop outs and ()*&@% customer service. It's only in the past couple of years when I moved, and had to choose Comcast, has it stabilized and been reasonable. But I'm waiting for the other thing on your foot to drop. So yeah, always-online DRM is something I truly hate.

If PA has always-online DRM, count me out. It is a deal breaker for me if a game, and especially RTS/Strategy games, come with always-online DRM. Everyone else has figured out how to do non-server-based RTSes before, they can figure it out now.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 11:50:44 pm by KingIsaacLinksr »
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #422 on: September 06, 2014, 12:30:52 am »
Had a great start.

Saw what happened when I landed on a planet, thought:

"THIS is the map I play on"

then quit.

Wasn't inspired at all. Maybe over time I'll warm up to it?

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« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 12:49:41 am by chemical_art »
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Offline Misery

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #423 on: September 06, 2014, 01:15:34 am »
and had to choose Comcast, has it stabilized and been reasonable.


what.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #424 on: September 06, 2014, 01:35:36 am »
and had to choose Comcast, has it stabilized and been reasonable.


what.
My thoughts exactly.
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #425 on: September 06, 2014, 02:36:06 am »
I don't think so, but why wouldn't you have an internet connection?

You clearly haven't experienced "the best" that US internet has to offer if you've made this comment....

*To expand*

For the majority of my life, I've had to deal with slow to extremely poor internet speeds, constant drop outs and ()*&@% customer service. It's only in the past couple of years when I moved, and had to choose Comcast, has it stabilized and been reasonable. But I'm waiting for the other thing on your foot to drop. So yeah, always-online DRM is something I truly hate.

If PA has always-online DRM, count me out. It is a deal breaker for me if a game, and especially RTS/Strategy games, come with always-online DRM. Everyone else has figured out how to do non-server-based RTSes before, they can figure it out now.
That's your right, however the game was specifically designed in such a way that the servers handle the massive load of most of the game including the planets, their orbits, the shadows, and much of the load of thousands or tens of thousands of units duking it out across an entire solar system.

To my knowledge, it's the first RTS to ever use this mechanic, allowing such massive-scale battles while still keeping fantastic performance on even the most modest of PCs. It also avoids the individual slowdown, "weakest link in the chain" problem basically every RTS since the beginning of time has had when the architecture is structured around the players, not the server. One person shouldn't ruin the fun for everyone else, and the way Uber designed the game handles it fantastically.

Considering that they've (in my opinion) completely revolutionized the RTS genre by literally bringing to the planetary scale, doing in all within two years, and on an Indie Developer budget, I honestly think there's no room to complain. There's a good explanation for why it was designed this way, and while offline single player may be added in the future, I can't fault them for not putting in the extra few months of work before release just for people using 56k modems in the year 2014.

This isn't an RPG like Diablo 3 in which there's absolutely no excuse to not have a single-player offline option. That was just pure greed on Blizzard's part, I completely agree. However Uber isn't a billion dollar company either, and Planetary Annihilation isn't a small-scale, zoomed-in RPG with one character and locally generated monsters.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 02:37:38 am by Wingflier »
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Offline zespri

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #426 on: September 06, 2014, 02:42:34 am »
That's your right, however the game was specifically designed in such a way that the servers handle the massive load of most of the game including the planets, their orbits, the shadows, and much of the load of thousands or tens of thousands of units duking it out across an entire solar system.
Excuse me, what are you talking about? Did they not promise off-line single player from the get go?

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #427 on: September 06, 2014, 03:19:57 am »
and had to choose Comcast, has it stabilized and been reasonable.


what.
My thoughts exactly.

I know right? I'm still waiting for this to suck at some point. I'm not crazy for expecting that, surely I'm not....and no, I can't tell you why its been good. I'm going with: extremely lucky.

That's your right, however the game was specifically designed in such a way that the servers handle the massive load of most of the game including the planets, their orbits, the shadows, and much of the load of thousands or tens of thousands of units duking it out across an entire solar system.

Yeah, I've heard the performance argument before...hmm...oh right, EA with SimCity (5). Except that was proven to be a bunch of bull. So, you'll excuse me if I'm skeptical.

Quote
To my knowledge, it's the first RTS to ever use this mechanic, allowing such massive-scale battles while still keeping fantastic performance on even the most modest of PCs. It also avoids the individual slowdown, "weakest link in the chain" problem basically every RTS since the beginning of time has had when the architecture is structured around the players, not the server. One person shouldn't ruin the fun for everyone else, and the way Uber designed the game handles it fantastically.


Which is impressive, if true. At this point, I have no reason to disbelieve it but this song has been sung to me many times lately when companies attempt to justify always-online DRM so to hear someone else say it makes me extremely suspicious. However, this has a big drawback to it: you're dependent on their servers. Which as we all know, last a finite amount of time.  AKA: for however long they continue to remain profitable.

Quote
Considering that they've (in my opinion) completely revolutionized the RTS genre by literally bringing to the planetary scale, doing in all within two years, and on an Indie Developer budget, I honestly think there's no room to complain.

I don't care if they're EA, Valve, Arcen Games or an old company resurrected from the dead. Always-online DRM for single player games is a deal breaker. And yes, there is always plenty of room to complain. The indie dev and small budget cards aren't immunity from criticism. The game still has to be up to snuff. Otherwise, how will games ever improve? There is never a perfect game, there never will be. Which is a good thing but holding back just because they're indie and they "completely revolutionized" the genre isn't valid.

To be frank, I thought the two year development cycle of a complicated RTS game was too quick. I've got games from Kickstarter of less complex genres still in BETA and active development polishing things out before release. I don't really understand why they rushed the release on this game.

Quote
There's a good explanation for why it was designed this way, and while offline single player may be added in the future, I can't fault them for not putting in the extra few months of work before release just for people using 56k modems in the year 2014.

I'm sorry, but did you not read what I just said? A lot of people in the US alone have very few, if any, choices when it comes to their Internet. And what they do get, is usually a terrible high-speed internet service. And even if we ignore the awful ISP situation in the USA, there's also the other end, the servers themselves. Even if we had a perfect ISP situation, servers FAIL. They go down, they lag up, they cause problems. The companies with the most experience with servers still have issues to this very day. (Everyone from Blizzard to Hi-Rez). Playing an MMO, online FPS/MOBA or any other online multiplayer game should give you more than enough experience with that. It's one more thing to fail, to go wrong. As such, I think its not too crazy to not want to deal with that while in the middle of a single player game.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 03:29:22 am by KingIsaacLinksr »
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #428 on: September 06, 2014, 03:26:39 am »
As I said, it's your right, and I certainly understand your position, but I think what Uber has done in only 2 years with an indie budget is absolutely extraordinary. Unmatched by any feat of development I've heard or seen in my entire lifetime as a gamer. I've seen games with 8+ year development cycles that haven't even held a candle to what they've done with this game in such a short period of time. Granted, they could have kept it in beta longer, but they released all the features they promised in Kickstarter, and offline single player was never one of those, to my knowledge.

I think they've been more than fair to their fanbase, have far exceeded the expectations of what most developers could do in the same timeframe, and have (once again, in my opinion) revolutionized the RTS genre from a meager, quaint 2D square plane to battles raging across entire solar systems, where the "maps" themselves can be used as weapons against other maps. Just like the original Total Annihilation which was released in '97, it will be another decade before the rest of the gaming world can even catch up.
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #429 on: September 06, 2014, 03:41:06 am »
As I said, it's your right, and I certainly understand your position, but I think what Uber has done in only 2 years with an indie budget is absolutely extraordinary. Unmatched by any feat of development I've heard or seen in my entire lifetime as a gamer. I've seen games with 8+ year development cycles that haven't even held a candle to what they've done with this game in such a short period of time. Granted, they could have kept it in beta longer, but they released all the features they promised in Kickstarter, and offline single player was never one of those, to my knowledge.

I think they've been more than fair to their fanbase, have far exceeded the expectations of what most developers could do in the same timeframe, and have (once again, in my opinion) revolutionized the RTS genre from a meager, quaint 2D square plane to battles raging across entire solar systems, where the "maps" themselves can be used as weapons against other maps. Just like the original Total Annihilation which was released in '97, it will be another decade before the rest of the gaming world can even catch up.

Which it is impressive that at least one more kickstarter dev actually stuck to their word. Because we've had quite a few more completely fail to meet expectations or disappear altogether. But let's be fair here, Uber had experience with TA and SupCom and from what I've seen via videos so far, that experience and knowledge shows. Its not like these guys were starting from scratch. Whether this is as revolutionary and awesome as you say it is, well, the jury is out on that. At least for me. As-is, I'm delaying the purchase until sometime after the single-player offline experience comes out. So, I can't really comment on anything other than the DRM-requirements at this time.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #430 on: September 06, 2014, 05:14:05 am »
Wait, this game is one of them always-online sorts?

Though wasnt the single-player stuff not even at all there yet?  Or maybe that's changed since I last messed with it?  Or maybe I'm remembering wrong.


As online-only-whatever goes, I usually A: dont care, and B: dont notice.  My thoughts on it are very simple:  If you've got a good connection, and your machine is online all the time ANYWAY, well... to me, not a problem.

Particularly since, if the Net should go down.... *lots* of things on your PC instantly stop working.  Many people wont actually be trying to run anything during that time, because they'll be sitting there trying to fix it until it works.  That's always been my experience, which is one reason why I often dont notice online-only requirements.  If the Net goes down, it takes half of the machine with it.  And I get irritable when things dont work and will sit there for hours trying to force it to work.

Now if your connection kinda sucks.... that's a whole other matter.


Though, WHY some of these games end up being this way, I often dont know.  Things like SimCity (ugh) being nasty examples.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #431 on: September 06, 2014, 07:23:57 am »
Had a great start.

Saw what happened when I landed on a planet, thought:

"THIS is the map I play on"

then quit.

Wasn't inspired at all. Maybe over time I'll warm up to it?

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Depends a lot on what map you chose, I guess. The very smallest maps are usually either two moons and one central planet, or two planets. Ideal for 2-4 players. Then there are the really big maps made for 8+ players that house multiple moons, asteroids and planets. What was the problem with the map?
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Offline Hearteater

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #432 on: September 06, 2014, 09:07:41 am »
Just because a game is client-server doesn't mean it has DRM. They may be functionally similar, but they are not the same.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #433 on: September 06, 2014, 09:29:25 am »
Granted, they could have kept it in beta longer, but they released all the features they promised in Kickstarter, and offline single player was never one of those, to my knowledge.

From https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/659943965/planetary-annihilation-a-next-generation-rts/posts/289765 :

Quote
Offline / LAN play support
By popular demand we are happy to announce that we will support LAN play and running your own servers! There will be elements of the game that are online only and will only be available when connected. For example things like player stats, auto-updating, metagame etc. However, we feel it’s important to be able to have an offline experience as well.

DRM-Free
For offline play, the game will be DRM free. For online play that gives you access to the global community and social features, you will need to be logged in.
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Offline Aklyon

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #434 on: September 06, 2014, 09:46:43 am »
Yeah, you missed one Wingflier.

Also theres a giant circular argument on Uber's forum currently (which is considerably nicer than a quick peek elsewhere), but the general direction of it seems to be 'It'll get here when it gets there, they probably wanted to have 1.0 ready for pax'.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 09:51:41 am by Aklyon »

 

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