Author Topic: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.  (Read 1701 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2016, 03:46:16 PM »
Gotcha -- yeah, that's a good point.  I do recall that game, although I've not played it.  It looked kinda like my sort of thing to play, but not completely.  There's definitely a lot of inherent risks in going that route if we did.  Hopefully it's not even a question that really has to arise in the future, we'll see.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2016, 05:46:47 PM »
The thing to be aware of, is that if you're going to do regular updates, you need to actually stick to that schedule.  Prison Architect was a phenomenal success because they said they'd do weekly updates and they did.

Offline Tridus

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2016, 05:57:19 PM »
The thing to be aware of, is that if you're going to do regular updates, you need to actually stick to that schedule.  Prison Architect was a phenomenal success because they said they'd do weekly updates and they did.

Prison Architect was also a great concept and well executed. Saying it was "because of weekly updates" is stretching it an awful lot. Given the numbers it sold, it's highly unlikely a majority of the playerbase  even knew they were doing weekly updates (especially since only the monthly ones got significant PR like youtube updates).

Offline Atepa

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2016, 07:56:02 AM »
The thing to be aware of, is that if you're going to do regular updates, you need to actually stick to that schedule.  Prison Architect was a phenomenal success because they said they'd do weekly updates and they did.

Prison Architect was also a great concept and well executed. Saying it was "because of weekly updates" is stretching it an awful lot. Given the numbers it sold, it's highly unlikely a majority of the playerbase  even knew they were doing weekly updates (especially since only the monthly ones got significant PR like youtube updates).

Wait Prison Architect did weekly updates? o.O I played that through most of the early access and never noticed...  :-[

Offline Misery

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2016, 10:00:59 AM »
The thing to be aware of, is that if you're going to do regular updates, you need to actually stick to that schedule.  Prison Architect was a phenomenal success because they said they'd do weekly updates and they did.

Prison Architect was also a great concept and well executed. Saying it was "because of weekly updates" is stretching it an awful lot. Given the numbers it sold, it's highly unlikely a majority of the playerbase  even knew they were doing weekly updates (especially since only the monthly ones got significant PR like youtube updates).

Those weekly updates do help ALOT though in a situation like that.  Firstly it says to the player, very loudly, "Yes, we absolutely are going to keep going with this game:  HERE IS THE PROOF".  It gives the player confidence in the developers, which is ever more important these days considering some of the crap that happens with early-access games.  Secondly, it also keeps players constantly invested, because there's always new stuff to do and see.  A player who is really invested in a game is also a player who will keep TALKING about the game. Third, well, it's like dangling food in front of a dog. Players see more and more shiny stuff added constantly, and eventually some of the hold-outs might cave and buy the thing.  And then they like it, and they too are invested in it and keep talking about it.   This though of course is assuming that the developers communicate with the community enough.  Gotta let them know that updates are there, after all. 

It's not even just updates, in a way it's almost a mini-PR sort of thing amongst the community and anyone following or connected to it.  But that sort of strict scheduling doesn't seem used very much.  The only other game I can currently think of that does something like this is 20XX, which goes so far as to have a timer counting down on the title screen, towards the next update which is every two weeks.  Talk about getting the player to notice...

Of course, the problem is that if you break that schedule at all, players get more than a little irked.  If too many updates in a row are just things like bugfixes, that irks them too.  They expect constant STUFF, which can be a problem.  It's hard to put out constant content.



Anyway, congrats to everyone working on this for the whole KS and stretch goals thing.  Cant wait to see where you take the whole thing.  Just... try not to overwork yourselves too much, yeah?

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2016, 12:30:00 PM »
Gotcha -- yeah, that's a good point.  I do recall that game, although I've not played it.  It looked kinda like my sort of thing to play, but not completely.  There's definitely a lot of inherent risks in going that route if we did.  Hopefully it's not even a question that really has to arise in the future, we'll see.
It isn't even a bad game, people just complain "Oh, you want a steady income for the project you invest all your life time into? Shame on you!"

Honestly; I don't pay the Patreon page eother but I bought all the dlc (except the skin pack) and if he wants to go that way and people are willing to pay him, so be it. No reason to bash hard on it, it means he can go on and release FREE updates.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2016, 12:36:49 PM »
Honestly; I don't pay the Patreon page eother but I bought all the dlc (except the skin pack) and if he wants to go that way and people are willing to pay him, so be it. No reason to bash hard on it, it means he can go on and release FREE updates.

I use Patreon to toss a buck or two at "people doing things I want them to do more of."  About 2/3rds artists....lets see, three programmers and one video-creator.  I'm spending...about $15 a month (a couple people are doing "per image pack/post/video/whatever" which I didn't count because they're not putting stuff out monthly).

Offline Aklyon

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2016, 12:44:33 PM »
Prison Architect did monthly updates, not weekly. And they had a rambly update video to go with it.

Offline MaxAstro

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2016, 11:11:40 PM »
I'm a big fan of FortressCraft myself, for all that it is lacking polish.  I don't support it on Patreon, but I do buy any DLC he releases, even the cosmetic DLC that I never use, because I think the developer has a good thing going.

And I definitely do like the "new content every month" think he does; it definitely keeps my eye on the game and it fresh in my mind.

That process combined with an Arcen layer of polish could work really well.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2016, 04:19:37 PM »
Prison Architect did monthly updates, not weekly. And they had a rambly update video to go with it.

Ah you're right, my mistake.  Still, they picked an update cycle and they stuck to it.

Offline x4000

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2016, 10:20:41 AM »
Erik has really emphasized to Keith and I the benefit of things that are a bit more unpredictable (but still regular) from a PR standpoint.  If it's literally scheduled and people know exactly when to expect it, there's no anticipation at all.  Minecraft has some interesting update cycles since they have the beta versions you can get at early, and the next build is ready "when it's ready."  I think that the update cycle of official things it too slow and has too little content (making me have to rely on way more mods than I'd prefer -- some of that should be in vanilla I feel like), but the concept works well in my opinion.  I'd like to see an accelerated schedule of the same thing.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2016, 12:52:43 PM »
Minecraft snapshops are still pretty regular.
They aren't major releases (which are more arbitrary; when they're ready sort of deal), but I'd still call it regular.

Offline x4000

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2016, 01:13:11 PM »
Oh absolutely -- I'm not complaining about the regularity of snapshots.  But their major new versions are only a couple of times per year.
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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2016, 01:17:06 PM »
Minecraft is, in my opinion, finished anyway. At some point people simply have to accept that a game is "done" but because Minecraft goes on, even if it is draggingly slow (most of the stuff are simply realms tweaks or command additions/changes, stuff that normal players never see in their regular games, its stuff for Multiplayer crazy people and modders), people think that every other indie game out there has to gon as well. For some weird reason no one excepts it from AAA titles (except the game is a mess and they demand fixes) but indie games seriously suffer the "Minecraft Hype" there. Because Miencraft did it and soem others joined the bandwagon, epople think this has to be the standard.

A game is at some point finished. Just like a movie or book. Get oer it. The issue is more apparent of course in sandbox games because it is hard to define there what the game makes "complete" but other genres might suffer as well. Games that have high replaybility value have the strongest problem with this, the playerbase demands even more from what they already have. Games with a clear start and ending won't be bothered at all because... well, there is an ending and you stop playing it.


So heads up, a storm might be incoming  ;)

Offline x4000

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Re: YES we hit four stretch goals. :) Plus other stretch goal info.
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2016, 02:33:15 PM »
Yeah, this is certainly a lot of good points. :)
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