Author Topic: Golem Proposal (now includes Black Widow/Hive Golem download)  (Read 513 times)

Offline RocketAssistedPuffin

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Golem Proposal (now includes Black Widow/Hive Golem download)
« on: December 19, 2018, 12:39:16 PM »
Making a new topic to avoid diverting Badgers more than it already is with Golem discussion.

Seems Golems aren't very well liked, with particular issues with multishot and not being impressive in any way. This is...a first draft proposal of sorts for people to look at, poke holes in, and anything else that comes up.

Armored:

* Weapon damage goes down slightly, shot count drastically increased (Currently it's 8, thinking around 20).

* Gains a new weapon specifically for single targets, which it currently cannot deal with at all due to multishot. Thinking something like a Sabot, but definitely not as powerful as what the Artillery Golem has to avoid overlap.

* Range increase for the current main weapon, which the new one will match.

* Potential boost to the Tesla weapon if desired.

Comments: A generic brawler tank of a Golem. I see this one likely becoming the jack of all trades, with more emphasis on simple survival and being the vanguard Golem.

Cursed:

* Loses self damage entirely, loses a bit of health to make it the weakest in that area (but not much).

* Goes up to 20 shots on the main weapon as well, just like the Armored. Damage shifted around as well possibly - paralysis is kept.

* Gains a similar Sabot weapon to the Armored, but still weaker, as the range is global. Possibly will have a unique kind of paralysis, being able to stun Guardians, Starships and Guard Posts.

Comments: A bizarre Golem, having traits of support via Paralysis, yet good generic damage output at infinite range, yet is tissue paper relative to other similar units. Paralysis will not be like what the Widow Golem will do, when that returns - Widow will be far better at that kind of shenanigan.

Artillery:

* Reload time goes down a fair bit to make it more impressive. Damage may go down a bit to compensate, but still an overall increase.

* Damage multiplier to higher mass like OMDs, so it inherently will target the big targets first before all else, instead of having to micro it constantly.

Comments: The Big Freaking Gun of the game. Should be the king of looking at something and having it disappear, and not have to be micromanaged to do it.

Botnet:

* May have more shots in each salvo, to keep it as the king of annihilating hordes of ships. Also means it follows the Classic incarnation of generally being unable to target anything but fleetships, though of course it can still zombify things even with one hit.

Comments: Feels pretty decent already, but could go up a bit.

Regenerator:

* Small offensive bump possibly.

Devourer:

* Fires every shot in the salvo simultaneously, and possibly will have some form of limited area damage for it to chew through swarmer types.

* Gets a secondary weapon, just like the Armored and Cursed, to allow it to properly eat single targets such as Starships. This'd appear exactly as normal shots, same range, etc, just with a large bonus to big targets.

Comments: Om Nom Nom Nom. It wasn't called the Cookie Monster for nothing!
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 11:43:04 AM by RocketAssistedPuffin »
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Offline AnnoyingOrange

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Re: Golem Proposal
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2018, 02:12:50 PM »
This sounds very good, especially as a first draft.
One thing that makes me wonder is the Sabot-like bonus weapons: they would make combined fleet tactics risky as the golem would then be able to use both weapons at once, while pure fleetship and pure starship tactics would only face half of the golem's firepower.
Could be interesting in a ion eye fashion.

Offline RocketAssistedPuffin

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Re: Golem Proposal
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2018, 06:53:59 PM »
EDIT: The one with the new Golems is at the bottom.

Here is a test file for it, and what changed.

Note: If you remove this, any saves you had probably won't load anymore - the game doesn't like systems being removed like this.

To install, just copy the things inside (except the change notes) to AIWar2 > GameData > Configuration > GameEntity, and let it override. To remove, just validate the game on Steam and it will revert it for you.

I will note that the Widow and Hive Golems may return sometime soon. If they are completed, I'll put an updated file with those included.

These may need some changes to the AIP increases, so that taking one isn't a light thing to do all the time, but we'll see.

Hopefully this is all done right and doesn't crash any games...been a while since I did this.

Changes:

* Armored Golem weapon damage reduced from 10,000 to 6,000, shots per salvo increased from 8 to 20, range increased from 6500 to 8000.

* Armored Golem now has a Zenith Sabot Cannon, dealing 8,000 damage every 2s, but with a 5x multiplier vs anything mass 5 and above.

* Artillery Golem reload time decreased from 17s to 9s, damage reduced from 500,000 to 350,000 and has a 1.2x multiplier vs anything mass 5 and above.

* Regenerator Golem reload time decreased from 4s to 2s.

* Cursed Golems no longer self damage.

* Cursed Golem weapon increased to 20 shots per salvo, range increased from 15,000 to 18,000.

* Cursed Golem now has a Zenith Paralyzing Sabot Cannon, dealing 5,000 damage every 2s, with a 5x multiplier vs mass 5 and above, and paralyses anything below mass 6.

* AI Overlord Phase 2 mass increased from 5 to 6, to make it immune to the above change.

* Botnet Golem shots per salvo increased from 50 to 80, range increased from 6,500 to 8,000.

* Devourer Golem now has a 6x multiplier vs mass 5 and above, fires 30 shots instead of 16, fires everything simultaneously, and has a small AOE on each shot as well.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 08:42:01 AM by RocketAssistedPuffin »
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Offline AnnoyingOrange

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Re: Golem Proposal
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2018, 01:15:21 PM »
Tested a bit, seems good to me.
Maybe Armored and Cursed are slightly too strong if facing something that's not Telsa guardians, but the AI insisted on spamming those so I can't say for sure.

Offline RocketAssistedPuffin

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Re: Golem Proposal
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2018, 06:33:21 PM »
Oh hey, thanks for trying it! Not often that happens and the person gives feedback.

Just a small tone down on both of those maybe?

EDIT: I've put those changes in officially, as they seem to work and don't break anything (thankfully). I can of course tune it further from any feedback from people before the next update comes.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 07:13:36 PM by RocketAssistedPuffin »
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Offline AnnoyingOrange

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Re: Golem Proposal
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2018, 05:00:34 AM »
Just a small tone down on both of those maybe?

I wouldn't be against that, I think the multi shot might need a damage penality vs high mass: against heavy ship swarms, the sabot gun only contributes around a fifth of the total damage output, sure it's focused but with those health pools golems can afford to tank shots.

Offline RocketAssistedPuffin

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Re: Golem Proposal
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2018, 06:25:18 AM »
Maybe a small drop on the multi-shot, small bump on the sabot for both.

Did just occur to me the Armored has similar damage to the Botnet vs swarms...ow.
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Offline AnnoyingOrange

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Re: Golem Proposal
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2018, 07:21:51 AM »
Did just occur to me the Armored has similar damage to the Botnet vs swarms...ow.

To be fair the Botnet got a massive nerf compared to classic, great DPS but it's not converting 25 ships per second on its own.

Offline RocketAssistedPuffin

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Re: Golem Proposal
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2018, 07:39:32 AM »
It also doesn't have the inability to target anything but Fleetships (and some were immune), nor does it have its own Exo-Galactic strikes, or cost a ridiculous amount of AIP/Energy to acquire. It also can be rebuilt when destroyed. So...I guess it has some upgrades to compensate.

I'm honestly not much of a fan of super units, and don't like using them in general, so balance on them is most likely going to be near entirely from community feedback.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 09:34:55 AM by RocketAssistedPuffin »
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Offline AnnoyingOrange

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Re: Golem Proposal
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2018, 10:41:57 AM »
What I meant was, it would be a lot more worrying if Armored was wiping out 25 ships per second.
About balance, at the moment botnet is more of a combined arms deal as you want other units to focus fire on the tagged targets to create zombies as fast as possible, it's certainly more interesting than being a "delete ships in this quadrant" button even if it still needs a bigger cost (high energy requirement? metal for repairs could go up too, since this golem usually gets a fair bit of scratches in battle).

Offline RocketAssistedPuffin

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Re: Golem Proposal
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2018, 10:56:28 AM »
Ah, gotcha.

It is a bit more interesting I suppose. In the quick testing I did, the Botnet was indeed the main one to get shot at.

I'll have a think about the energy and metal costs. I could change the AIP as well technically, different for each one.

I imagine those would change with the Easy-Medium-Hard settings in future, as only the Hard one does anything currently.
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Offline RocketAssistedPuffin

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Re: Golem Proposal
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2018, 11:42:35 AM »
This one now includes the Black Widow and Hive Golems. Not super tested so far, so anyone using this then reporting back on anything I missed, messed up, or how broken they are etc is appreciated.

To install, follow this path:

AIWar2 > GameData > Configuration

There are two files, Golems, and DroneMenus. First, put the Golem file into the folder "GameEntity", and let it overwrite. Then, put the DroneMenus file into the folder "BuildMenu", and let it overwrite.

Then just start a new game with Golems enabled and they should be there.

The AI can possibly get the Black Widow, but it cannot get the Hive currently.

If all goes well, I'll put these in officially.

As an odd experiment, the Yellow Jackets spawned from the Hive have the Metabolization effect. Curious how that'll go.

EDIT: They seem to be fine, so they're now officially in, with some small changes to the Widow as a precaution.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 10:02:21 AM by RocketAssistedPuffin »
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Offline AnnoyingOrange

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Re: Golem Proposal (now includes Black Widow/Hive Golem download)
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2018, 05:45:11 AM »
Trying it out, so far I can confirm that the AI gets the Black Widow and that said golem is pretty effective at runing the day of a fleetship-based force.

Offline RocketAssistedPuffin

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Re: Golem Proposal (now includes Black Widow/Hive Golem download)
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2018, 09:34:23 AM »
I knew it could. Just not guaranteed to pick it.

Guessing too powerful? It felt like that when I was making it...paralysis could maybe be toned down in duration.

Might test myself later, not been feeling it past few days, so thanks for giving it a go again.

EDIT: Seems the Classic one only tractor beamed 200 ships. The ones in that file are 350 for AI, 500 for player. Might swap the paralysis to engine stun...I'll have a think again.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 10:38:22 AM by RocketAssistedPuffin »
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Offline AnnoyingOrange

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Re: Golem Proposal (now includes Black Widow/Hive Golem download)
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2018, 11:08:25 AM »
Got a hive golem, tooltip claims it builds drones up to 50 strenght, but in practice it seems to stop building at 10 strenght (132 drones): automatic drone release limits its use severely, at least the drones are good at dealing with tesla guardians.
I wouldn't say yet that Black Widow is too strong, I engaged it in a very unfavourable situation (bunch of sabots and a OMD on the other side of the planet) so a loss was expected.