Arcen Games

General Category => AI War II => : x4000 October 02, 2016, 03:07:41 PM

: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: x4000 October 02, 2016, 03:07:41 PM
Original: http://arcengames.com/5905-2/

Lots of stuff has been happening on the AI War II forums in general, and a lot of news in the dev diary section in particular.  Once the kickstarter for the game launches -- later this week -- we'll be sharing more through our blog and social media.  It's been an intensive process so far in the forums, though, with folks contributing 2,470 post on 180 topics in a matter of just a couple of weeks.

Here's the first video of the game:



The kickstarter for AI War II is coming up in the next week! If you want to be notified of it by email, please send a note to arcengames at gmail dot com and we'll be happy to.

Our forums have a ton of information about what's going on and how you can contribute (non-financially) prior to the kickstarter if you wish to.

And our public design document is huge and still growing.  The latter will be finished up (for purposes of v1.0 specs) within the next 3 days.

I'll be around on the forums plenty in the coming days, or I'll hopefully catch you later this week when we launch the Kickstarter!

-Chris
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: Mad Rubicant October 02, 2016, 03:27:22 PM
Looks great!

The capital ship animation looks a little cartoony though. They should probably stray way less from their center, or perhaps just turn in place. Also, maybe have a setting where small ship animations are turned off but your single-unit squads aren't, because they're cool.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: x4000 October 02, 2016, 03:31:33 PM
Cheers!  And yep, I imagine we'll do one or both (improve it and/or have an option to disable it), and it will be moddable between some various animations in general, anyway.  I made it wander that far because it felt odd having it just run in a circle like a dog chasing its tail, heh.  A lot of the larger ships will clearly need to just be motionless, or drift slightly, when they are idle.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: Mánagarmr October 02, 2016, 06:11:07 PM
Worst timing ever for the Kickstarter. I had one car burning and the other vandalized, so I'm down about $1000. Yeaah, hoping I can back anyway.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: Vyndicu October 02, 2016, 06:50:46 PM
Sorry to hear the timing is terrible. Story of our lives eh? Mánagarmr

I would not put the asteroid belt on the planet's edge border. It would look "weird" to see a ring of object breaking Newton's gravity laws.

Otherwise the zoom itself looks good.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: mrhanman October 02, 2016, 07:36:01 PM
This is really looking awesome, guys!  I can't wait to break my PC with it!  :D
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: PokerChen October 03, 2016, 03:07:58 AM
*chuckles* It certainly looks nice - although considering the economy of movement aspects of present RL, the idling animation are somewhat jarring. The bombers behave like a school of fish (who must move around to breathe), while the fighters are swarming in a slow-motion feeding frenzy.

 If it's possible to procedurally vary holding flight patterns, this may be useful to break the large-scale idling synchronisation that creep up in the final product.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: Stormking October 03, 2016, 05:48:01 AM
The map certainly reminds me a lot of Sins of a Solar Empire. Hope that will yet change!
Units are looking good, no concerns there, except if the squads would now create an opportunity for micro-management. Because that would be the anti-thesis of what AIWC was to me.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: kasnavada October 03, 2016, 05:57:02 AM
The planet being a background is so strange.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: Yavaun October 03, 2016, 10:01:30 AM
Gotta say the new AI War looks an awful lot like SINS (except more fluid). :D
It's not a bad thing, just my first thought.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: Draco18s October 03, 2016, 01:28:58 PM
Delicious
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: x4000 October 03, 2016, 02:31:56 PM
Glad the general thoughts are positive!

Worst timing ever for the Kickstarter. I had one car burning and the other vandalized, so I'm down about $1000.

Oh man, I'm so sorry to hear about that!

I would not put the asteroid belt on the planet's edge border. It would look "weird" to see a ring of object breaking Newton's gravity laws.

I can always change that, or make it something you can turn off.  It makes the border easy to see from a side-on view, though, at any rate.  Presuming that these have sufficient lateral velocity, I'm not sure why these couldn't be in a stable orbit in general, though?

*chuckles* It certainly looks nice - although considering the economy of movement aspects of present RL, the idling animation are somewhat jarring. The bombers behave like a school of fish (who must move around to breathe), while the fighters are swarming in a slow-motion feeding frenzy.

If it's possible to procedurally vary holding flight patterns, this may be useful to break the large-scale idling synchronisation that creep up in the final product.

An absolutely enormous set of potential options for ways ships can idle, or travel, are quite possible.  None of it affects the sim, so the flexibility there is pretty insane as to what's possible.

The map certainly reminds me a lot of Sins of a Solar Empire. Hope that will yet change!

What do you mean in terms of that?  You want it to change in what way?  I haven't played Sins since literally 2008 or so, and I didn't particularly care for it, so I'm very out of date with it.

except if the squads would now create an opportunity for micro-management. Because that would be the anti-thesis of what AIWC was to me.

It would be the antithesis of that to me, too.  Definitely see the design document for notes on how squads work; should set your mind at ease some.

The planet being a background is so strange.

Do you mean being below the playfield plane?  That's how it was in AI War Classic as well.  Actually, I guess this could be what is violating newtonian physics in terms of where the asteroids are orbiting (they don't have an equatorial orbit).  I don't feel like having the planet as something that blocks the battlefield would be a positive thing for gameplay, honestly.

: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: kasnavada October 03, 2016, 06:15:18 PM
Quote
    The planet being a background is so strange.
Do you mean being below the playfield plane?  That's how it was in AI War Classic as well.  Actually, I guess this could be what is violating newtonian physics in terms of where the asteroids are orbiting (they don't have an equatorial orbit).  I don't feel like having the planet as something that blocks the battlefield would be a positive thing for gameplay, honestly.

Yes, well, game-play wise you're more than probably right. Thing is it looks like sins does (which is good) but with no center. It probably can still change a bit after the KS if needed - not important to focus on now I think.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: Vyndicu October 04, 2016, 04:00:02 AM
I would not put the asteroid belt on the planet's edge border. It would look "weird" to see a ring of object breaking Newton's gravity laws.

I can always change that, or make it something you can turn off.  It makes the border easy to see from a side-on view, though, at any rate.  Presuming that these have sufficient lateral velocity, I'm not sure why these couldn't be in a stable orbit in general, though?

By looking weird is that even if they do start with "enough lateral velocity"; the gravity alone is enough to make them change into a "two perpendicular ring" configuration orbit given enough time. Although there are other worse outcome like Kessler Syndrome. The Kessler Syndrome is actually a real headache/problem in real life by the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome

I don't have any problem specifically with making border look nice. I would suggest either a wider simple white solid perimeter as GUI like what you have in video but make it bigger or come up with something else that doesn't violate astrophysics principles. We can always revisit this at a later date and I think the quickest way for now is to go with GUI approach.

If you still want asteroid belt somewhere, you can create "dwarf planets similar to Ceres" with asteroid field through the entire planet zone and beyond. It will not matter that much where the asteroid are because they will never have enough gravity to pull other asteroid orbit (especially Ceres-isque dwarf planet). This will look much better and can be revisit later after 1.0 if not enough time.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: x4000 October 04, 2016, 09:38:53 AM
Got it.  I'm running ten million miles a minute for now, but those are certainly things I'm open to tuning as time goes on into the alpha and so on (and even during the kickstarter).
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: Draco18s October 04, 2016, 01:27:30 PM
Got it.  I'm running ten million miles a minute for now

Fast enough to get to Alpha Centauri in just under 12 hours! ;D
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: Stormking October 05, 2016, 12:19:34 PM
    The map certainly reminds me a lot of Sins of a Solar Empire. Hope that will yet change!


What do you mean in terms of that?  You want it to change in what way?  I haven't played Sins since literally 2008 or so, and I didn't particularly care for it, so I'm very out of date with it.

a) size. I know it's supposed to be smaller, but I hope it won't feel too claustrophobic. Will show during beta I guess.

b) wormhole placement. couldn't find anything in the design doc where they are. I know them being in the right direction, but if they're all at the outer edge, I think that will get boring quicker than the original. Heck, even them all being in the exact right direction might get old too quick, so I wouldn't want to lock that in just yet.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: Vyndicu October 05, 2016, 02:36:12 PM
a) size. I know it's supposed to be smaller, but I hope it won't feel too claustrophobic. Will show during beta I guess.

b) wormhole placement. couldn't find anything in the design doc where they are. I know them being in the right direction, but if they're all at the outer edge, I think that will get boring quicker than the original. Heck, even them all being in the exact right direction might get old too quick, so I wouldn't want to lock that in just yet.

I would actually prefer that the wormhole show up at the solar system edge instead of what we had in AI War Classic where wormhole could and will show up anywhere.

I had some map on Fallen Spire where the wormhole was so "close to each other" that I could not use it as a defense choke-hold at all.

Although if the wormhole exit were fairly close to each other (given how solar system are generated unlikely) we still have the same problem. I will certainly look out for this in beta.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: chemical_art October 06, 2016, 05:35:02 PM
To that video:

<3
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: Misery October 07, 2016, 04:06:26 AM
My initial thoughts upon seeing this:  1, the ships sure look cool when zoomed in.  It'll be interesting to see what they look like during a fight.   But then also, 2.  The scale when zoomed out absolutely bugs me.   It goes instantly from looking like you have tons of ships, to looking like you have, like, 5 or so.  It's like the whole "massive scale" aspect just completely breaks down upon going towards full zoom out. 

A bit negative-sounding, yes, but... just being honest as always.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: jenya October 07, 2016, 07:05:34 AM
me too remembered about Sins of a Solar Empire, spent long hours in that game a few years ago. This overhead view, 2D plane, planet, circle around and a direction to outside. I guess the similarity is unavoidable because of space theme, please check this video as an example, at 0:18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DCv4Hq0mlM
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: jenya October 07, 2016, 08:03:24 AM
please be aware that Unity has a floating point limit (it uses floats for physics, not doubles) which affects scene sizes unless sectoring is used:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/1x9qdf/is_there_any_real_way_to_extend_unitys_floating
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: PokerChen October 07, 2016, 10:20:25 AM
2.  The scale when zoomed out absolutely bugs me.   It goes instantly from looking like you have tons of ships, to looking like you have, like, 5 or so.  It's like the whole "massive scale" aspect just completely breaks down upon going towards full zoom out. 

It's worth waiting for a combat mockup, I think. In the Total War series, where units are strictly ordered into formations, a large battle can still be seen in sufficient details to retain massive-ness, although individual soldiers might be only a few pixels. There should be room to play with here by retaining a couple of polygon's worth of speck+exhaust.
One of the devices other sci-fi use is to have larger explosions of strike craft that can be seen in far zoom, which allows player to mentally fill in details that are not explicitly visible - this would also help.
: Re: AI War II - Far Zoom First Look
: Vyndicu October 07, 2016, 11:28:29 PM
In total war, you have way too much discrete control over your unit's formation. You can control how wide down to number of men on the frontline. That may not translate very well into a game like this.

Although I do see where you are coming from.