Author Topic: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions  (Read 5433 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2016, 04:39:36 PM »
Even I don't know the answer to that one, yeah. :)
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Offline WolfWhiteFire

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2017, 08:29:37 PM »
Quote from: WolfWhiteFire on October 18, 2016, 03:13:27 PM
Quote from: Captain Jack on October 17, 2016, 08:39:34 PM
They're also not quite as central to AIWC as you think.
Are you sure? That the brother provided the technology for the AI was one of the things I was most sure that I remembered from a journal entry. (Yeah I just checked it, and it seems to very strongly suggest so, though I guess not outright say it) So really it was just the brother allied himself with the AI?
Yup. Though the relationship isn't that cut and dry it basically boils down to an alliance.
I know it is an old post and the matter discussed no longer applies to the current AI War 2 plans since it is no longer a continuation of the previous game storywise, but after playing a little, something I noticed is that the Exodian Blade Activation and Exodian Blade Victory journal entries make it clear that is NOT the case if you read them.

Offline z99-_

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2017, 09:51:03 PM »
Honestly, I gave up trying to figure out the Exodian blade plotline. Looking at it from simply a gameplay perspective, it would indeed seem that the AIs were subordinates of the Core (assuming 'the Core' is what various journal entries meant when discussing the evil brother, which considering how often the game uses the word 'core' may be a dangerous assumption to make) as the Exodian Blade win condition is supposed to kill the Core, which stops the AI. If they were independent creatures, why would that be the case?

However, perhaps due to it being DLC, the whole 'the AIs are puppets, and this evil ancient alien is the puppet master' never seemed to mesh with the rest of the lore, which always seemed to suggest the AIs betrayed humanity on their own volition (at least to me). And frankly, I prefer that concept a lot more, it seems much more ... poetic, perhaps? Since AIW2 is a remake retelling of AIWC, all that really matters is what players and the devs think is the better story, and that can be made the official lore regardless of what the gameplay or journal entries might say - as long as we're not changing the game's foundational lore like saying the AIs are actually overlords from AVWW or something, I don't have a problem with it.

Hmm ... well, since the thread is already necro'd, it occurred that I have a lore question: how much lore will end up in the base game, and in what forms? I know there's some kickstarter stuff, but how much non-kickstarter stuff will there be?

Or to put in a way that may be more easily answered, can you provide a rough estimate as to what percentage of total lore entries will be generated by the Loremaster backer?

Offline WolfWhiteFire

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2017, 11:51:29 AM »
Well the discussion I was continuing was from when AI War 2 was still going to be in the future from AI War Classic, where the AI just come back and manage to take control of most of the galaxy again, though not the whole galaxy. So what I was referring to was considering that it would be in the same universe rather than a sort of alternate universe. But I second the question about how much lore will end up in the base game, I am curious too.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2017, 01:11:00 AM »
Wut? AI War 2 is no continutation of AI War classic anymore? When was this revealed?

Offline z99-_

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2017, 08:44:15 AM »
Wut? AI War 2 is no continutation of AI War classic anymore? When was this revealed?

When the plans for the second kickstarter were being made, I think?

I remember now. It was in the kickstarter comment section, with Keith responding to some other random question with "Well, this is no longer going to be a sequel to the original, but a retelling of the original, so np" or something. I think the rationale was that a sequel would need all new lore and stuff, which would take time and money to create, while remaking AIWC allows all the old lore to be used (with some minor tweaks perhaps). I suggested that may be something best discussed a bit more beforehand, or at least make an official notice or something, but I guess it wasn't seen as a big deal to most  :-\

Offline x4000

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2017, 10:57:42 AM »
Keith put that in the design document for the second kickstarter, I believe.  Basically this is in a lot of ways seen as a reboot from a story sense, yes.  It's not that it is retelling the same story in some respects, but it's trying to evolve the older story and flesh it out more.  We lost... so much staff between the first and second kickstarters.
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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2017, 03:11:24 PM »
Okay, I guess it makes sense because some of the lore elements of AIW1 didn't work well tigether or were to confusing, so retelling the story in a new, better way might be the wiser decision.

But I won't lie, I'm a little disappointed now.

Offline WolfWhiteFire

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2017, 04:02:15 PM »
But I won't lie, I'm a little disappointed now.
You and me both, even if it was a bit earlier for me. I really like seeing a lot of lore and story in games, and now it will be using pretty similar lore to the previous one, though I was even more disappointed in being told that Spire were no longer going to be their own race you can play but will be mixed in with humans like the Fallen Spire campaign did.

Offline z99-_

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2017, 04:16:51 PM »
Keith put that in the design document for the second kickstarter, I believe.

I just reviewed (skimmed) the design doc, and I didn't see it mentioned there. It says in general "if it's mentioned in the first Kickstarter design document but not mentioned in this one, then it's not planned for this one", and since the story was mentioned in the first doc and not the second, I suppose that could be interpreted as the story being the same as AIWC? But that seems like a big stretch. If I missed it, feel free to point it out :)

We lost... so much staff between the first and second kickstarters.

With all the excitement around the current AIW2, it becomes easy to forget the troubles that led to this point :(. For the fans, at least. As the guy who had to had to tell his friends they were out of work, I imagine it sticks with you a lot more.

But you gotta play the cards you're dealt, right? I was also a bit disappointed initially with the change in setting, but seeing things move forward I've warmed up to the idea of "AIWC with better graphics and UI and more coherent story" quite a bit.

And besides, all the effort put into development of the original AIW2 lore doesn't have to go to waste! It can be used for the next AI War game. (Is it too soon to be discussing AIW3? :D)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2017, 04:33:08 PM »
This update in the second kickstarter is probably the best summary of how lore will be handled in the sequel: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/arcengames/ai-war-ii-0/posts/1757302

Basically it was still up in the air internally when we re-launched the kickstarter, and as I realized what the staff losses meant and what I was best equipped to do, I went the way I did. I wasn't really done telling those stories, ultimately :)
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Offline z99-_

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #56 on: March 13, 2017, 05:04:19 PM »
This update in the second kickstarter is probably the best summary of how lore will be handled in the sequel: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/arcengames/ai-war-ii-0/posts/1757302

Basically it was still up in the air internally when we re-launched the kickstarter, and as I realized what the staff losses meant and what I was best equipped to do, I went the way I did. I wasn't really done telling those stories, ultimately :)

tmw a game dev actually listens to your concerns and extensively responds to them, but you forget and go on to complain about it again in a random thread 3 months later :o

Sorry about that Keith! :-[

Thankfully most of my coworkers are elderly, so they don't notice my own memory lapses :-\

Offline x4000

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #57 on: March 13, 2017, 05:09:11 PM »
It would be nice for us to be able to use some of the AIW2 lore from the original piece as even expansions to AIW2, who knows.  I'd like to think that we can build on AIW2 for a lot of years, like we did with AIWC, rather than going to sequel after sequel.  But yep, I don't see that stuff as a waste, either way.

2016 in a lot of ways was one long slow-mo of Arcen falling down the stairs, basically.  I accidentally pushed us off the top in mid 2015 without realizing it, tried to grab a hold of the railing in October 2015, missed and smashed out a bunch of teeth in January 2016, kept spinning down the stairs until hitting with a hard crack in the middle of the back in August, then another really hard smash to the face in October, and then finally in December we managed to grab out a hand and avoid completely splitting our head all the way open at the bottom.

There's still an alarming amount of blood all over the place, and teeth and such left behind all over the stairs, but we're conscious and standing back up again at the moment.

That was a violent metaphor, eh? ;)

Anyhow, it's meant that a few things got dropped or missed, such as that particular oversight on the state of the story.  Sorry about that not being more clear in the original document, but I don't want to go back and alter that now for fear of being revisionist about it.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2017, 05:11:19 PM »
No worries :)

If anyone actually has read all the information we've put out about this project, and internalized it sufficiently to not forget any of it, then they've spent way too much time reading it ;)
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Offline x4000

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Re: The floor is now open for (LORE!) questions
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2017, 05:14:27 PM »
No worries :)

If anyone actually has read all the information we've put out about this project, and internalized it sufficiently to not forget any of it, then they've spent way too much time reading it ;)

Yeah, I don't even fit that description.  Not fully, anyhow.
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