Author Topic: No More Home Command Stations For Players  (Read 3600 times)

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2016, 12:39:32 PM »
So it would be an option? Or a sort of Minor Faction?

Default: immobile Home Command Station.
MF Activated: Command Flagship.

A journal entry would welcome the player with something like "Hey, boss, we found that old Flagship from the previous AI War. It was there when the first AI got its artificial ass kicked. We repaired and overhauled it to be used as a mobile command bridge. I'm sure you don't want to command your army from an immobile command station, right?"

Optional, fun... everybody is happy.
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.
Pumpkin>> Do I need another cure about paranoia on top of overexcitement?
Mal>> We play AI War, enthusiasm and paranoia are both required!

Offline Tridus

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2016, 01:51:49 PM »
So it would be an option? Or a sort of Minor Faction?

Default: immobile Home Command Station.
MF Activated: Command Flagship.

A journal entry would welcome the player with something like "Hey, boss, we found that old Flagship from the previous AI War. It was there when the first AI got its artificial ass kicked. We repaired and overhauled it to be used as a mobile command bridge. I'm sure you don't want to command your army from an immobile command station, right?"

Optional, fun... everybody is happy.

I'd support that with the default being reversed (ie: default is flagship).

Offline zharmad

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2016, 01:52:23 PM »
Yeah, a deploy option is probably a good way to not accidentally send Tanya on a face-off against a platoon of tanks.

Whether mobility is on by default with a lobby option to disable or the converse, doesn't really matter all that much to me.

Offline kasnavada

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2016, 01:53:50 PM »
So it would be an option? Or a sort of Minor Faction?

Default: immobile Home Command Station.
MF Activated: Command Flagship.

A journal entry would welcome the player with something like "Hey, boss, we found that old Flagship from the previous AI War. It was there when the first AI got its artificial ass kicked. We repaired and overhauled it to be used as a mobile command bridge. I'm sure you don't want to command your army from an immobile command station, right?"

Optional, fun... everybody is happy.

I'd support that with the default being reversed (ie: default is flagship).

In the design document it's written that default is flagship. Extract of the OP of the design doc:

Quote
Having a lobby option where you can’t move it is certainly also possible if some folks really want that “play it as it lies” sort of experience.

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2016, 02:41:08 PM »
Yes, indeed, mobility is default in the design document. I would suggest to make it the other way around, but let's see the details, shall we?

1. Conservatism first.
Just a little thing. I believe the most conservative option should be the default one.

2. Easiest first.
Well, indeed, immobile home-thing sounds like a challenge when there is the possibility to move it somewhere in the game, so new players could get used to an easier, more forgiving / flexible gameplay before increasing the difficulty by enabling the "don't move" challenge.

3. Thematic.
Coming from AIW1, I feel the immobile is "normal" and the mobile should find a justification ("we found and overhauled an old flagship"). But that could be true for the other way around. Let's see. If the default is "players/commanders come in with their personal bridge-flagship", then what is the justification for the immobile twist? I can imagine something like "We just met the AI Special Forces and the Riot Control Starships completely destroyed the engines of our bridge-flagship; it would take months to repair/rebuild a special piece like this, and it seems we're immobilized until the end of this conflict."

Good job, Pumpkin, you sold yourself to the enemy.
Ah, okay, make the mobile version the default option.
 ;D
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.
Pumpkin>> Do I need another cure about paranoia on top of overexcitement?
Mal>> We play AI War, enthusiasm and paranoia are both required!

Offline Captain Jack

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2016, 02:45:39 PM »
Yes, indeed, mobility is default in the design document. I would suggest to make it the other way around, but let's see the details, shall we?

1. Conservatism first.
Just a little thing. I believe the most conservative option should be the default one.

2. Easiest first.
Well, indeed, immobile home-thing sounds like a challenge when there is the possibility to move it somewhere in the game, so new players could get used to an easier, more forgiving / flexible gameplay before increasing the difficulty by enabling the "don't move" challenge.

3. Thematic.
Coming from AIW1, I feel the immobile is "normal" and the mobile should find a justification ("we found and overhauled an old flagship"). But that could be true for the other way around. Let's see. If the default is "players/commanders come in with their personal bridge-flagship", then what is the justification for the immobile twist? I can imagine something like "We just met the AI Special Forces and the Riot Control Starships completely destroyed the engines of our bridge-flagship; it would take months to repair/rebuild a special piece like this, and it seems we're immobilized until the end of this conflict."
Hmm... Something here speaks to me. What is it? Zoom and enhance!

3. Thematic.
Coming from AIW1, I feel the immobile is "normal" and the mobile should find a justification ("we found and overhauled an old flagship"). But that could be true for the other way around. Let's see. If the default is "players/commanders come in with their personal bridge-flagship", then what is the justification for the immobile twist? I can imagine something like "We just met the AI Special Forces and the Riot Control Starships completely destroyed the engines of our bridge-flagship; it would take months to repair/rebuild a special piece like this, and it seems we're immobilized until the end of this conflict."
Hmm. Enhance again!

the mobile should find a justification
When you're ready Chris.  :D

Offline chemical_art

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2016, 03:25:02 PM »
Yeah, a deploy option is probably a good way to not accidentally send Tanya on a face-off against a platoon of tanks.


Good times.
Life is short. Have fun.

Offline Tridus

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2016, 03:29:47 PM »
the mobile should find a justification
When you're ready Chris.  :D

What, you mean other than "fighting an all powerful, ruthless opponent by keeping our entire leadership in a single stationary location is a really stupid plan"? ;)

Unless the home command station is some kind of massive fortress that is heavily defended, it doesn't make sense to leave it stationary. You've made the head of the resistance a sitting duck. Why do that when you can make powerful ships and be able to escape if needed?

The thematic justification is obvious. Gameplay wise, it seems clearly superior to me because you get the option to flee if things go badly in a given system, and that gives the AI a chance to be more aggressive without it being a constant game over situation.

The king isn't a fast moving piece, but he's not stationary for a reason.

Offline kasnavada

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2016, 03:35:31 PM »
Also, it's not exactly a far reaching idea. Armies and even firefighters have used mobile command centers, or similar concepts, for quite a while now. If not since the start of warfare, for all we know.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 03:42:40 PM by kasnavada »

Offline Tridus

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2016, 04:44:25 PM »
Also, it's not exactly a far reaching idea. Armies and even firefighters have used mobile command centers, or similar concepts, for quite a while now. If not since the start of warfare, for all we know.

Genghis Khan sure didn't sit in an immobile base far from the front. :)


Offline Pumpkin

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2016, 04:45:49 PM »
Also, it's not exactly a far reaching idea. Armies and even firefighters have used mobile command centers, or similar concepts, for quite a while now. If not since the start of warfare, for all we know.

Genghis Khan sure didn't sit in an immobile base far from the front. :)
Genghis Khan didn't have remote galactic fleet control. :P

Just kidding. I totally agree with Kasnavada on that.
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.
Pumpkin>> Do I need another cure about paranoia on top of overexcitement?
Mal>> We play AI War, enthusiasm and paranoia are both required!

Offline kasnavada

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2016, 04:54:45 PM »
Genghis Khan didn't have remote galactic fleet control. :P

That's what they want you to believe 8).

Offline Coppermantis

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2016, 05:30:10 AM »
I like this a lot. Gives a Battlestar Galactica sort of feel, and makes losing your starting system not an immediate game over. If it starts with a lot of resources it's a major loss, but could lead to some neat "retake the capital" scenarios like you might get in Civ or Crusader Kings.
I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.

Offline Yavaun

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2016, 06:37:52 PM »
This does sound interesting. However, there are lessons to be learned from other games which had this (supreme commander for example). But let's adress the obvious question first:

  • How do you end up in a hard to defend position, or bad spot with your immobile command station, when you can freely place it at the games start?
There is a lot of strategical choice in your initial home planet selection and having a mobile command station will dilute this. Just want you to think about it. That is all.

... and now to the lessons:

1. A combat-ready king is often nothing but wasted potential.
In games like Supcom where you have a mobile ACU which if dead ends the game for you and which has some very decent fighting power is often left even behind the last line of defense because the risk of losing it is simply too high. Unless you make it as durable as a golem there is no way people (generally) are going to risk losing it just to get some extra dps. Slow and steady wins the race. Why take the risk? Not even the fact that your ACU has an ability with unmatched power (overcharge) could lure people to use it offensively unless as a last ditch effort or during the very early stages of the game where there are no armies that can contest the king.
So what the guys at Gas Powered Games did in their sequel was to greatly increase it's mobility. Through extensive research (and costs) you could unlock additional movement abilities which almost garuantee you being able to disengange if something goes wrong or you lose control of the situation.

I think this is something a mobile, combat oriented home command station would require too - especially in a game like AI wars where one of the AI's core traits is being unpredicable. If you move your HQ and the AI all of a sudden throws all the threat and strategic reserve it has at it you need to be able to escape (unless there is nowhere to escape to). Otherwise you shouldn't have moved it in the first place which defeats the purpose of a mobile HQ.


2. Some people still didn't like the idea- so they added OPTIONS to trade combat power for economical boost.
I think this is something AI War II could use as well. Something along the lines of "permanently settle your HQ - get an economical boost (like an extra generator) in return".


Then again, if you're fine with another ship which is "useless" 99% of the time but provides you a spectecular last stand during the other 1% then perhaps this is just what the game needs. I can't say which one I prefer. It's just important to me that you consider both aspects.


My 2 cents.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 06:46:17 PM by Yavaun »

Offline Nuc_Temeron

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Re: No More Home Command Stations For Players
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2016, 07:46:05 PM »
This idea is actually pretty great. I would like to be able to move my command station and honestly it's not that much of a departure from AIWC (are we calling it that now?). Here's some random thoughts.

The mothership should also be a carrier for cleanup drones and any other kind of drones that seem sensible. Make it like a Neinzul carrier kinda. It should be painfully slow and not particularly formidable. Please give it a force field ha.

Also, when moving, you shouldn't be able to collect resources and/or do some other thing that you can do when you're not moving that is important, in order to make it a "decision" instead of just an innate ability. Perhaps it could be like a transformer ship, you can pay some cost to switch it into mobile mode, and then you'd better hurry up and figure out where to get it back into stationary mode so you can start collecting resources and/or doing that other thing that you do when you're stationary.

Also, perhaps going through warpgates would have some additional cost associated with it.

Thinking of Starward Rogue here, what if we could have a variety of motherships to choose from at the beginning?