Author Topic: WTF: spirecraft asteroids mining in enemy territory  (Read 862 times)

Offline Pumpkin

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,194
  • Neinzul Gardener Enclave
WTF: spirecraft asteroids mining in enemy territory
« on: April 22, 2016, 03:07:50 PM »
I just realized Spirecraft's asteroids can be mined even when they are in an AI-controlled planet. For some obscure reason, I thought I needed to capture a planet before being able to mine its asteroids.That throws me in a whole new level of strategy about the spirecrafts. Now I feel the whole galaxy is mine ! (Mine... to mine... pun-pun-pun). I thought spirecrafts were precious and I barely never used the one-time-use ones (martyr, ram, shield). Now I feel like I can spam martyrs or stash a huge pile of them for the final homeworld assaults. Strangely, even in the """hard""" version, I feel this MF is a bit overpowered. Eh, the golems were overpowered too... Don't you feel even the hard versions of Golem and Spirecraft gives too much power for a not so terrifying trade-off? I didn't play with the golems since a long time but I remember feeling a big difference in difficulty when I decided to play without them.

Questions:

1) Did you know?
2) Do you feel it's balanced?
3) What about an alternate version (difficulty "extra hard"?) where only captured planets can be mined?
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.
Pumpkin>> Do I need another cure about paranoia on top of overexcitement?
Mal>> We play AI War, enthusiasm and paranoia are both required!

Offline Toranth

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,222
Re: WTF: spirecraft asteroids mining in enemy territory
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2016, 03:48:01 PM »
I just realized Spirecraft's asteroids can be mined even when they are in an AI-controlled planet. For some obscure reason, I thought I needed to capture a planet before being able to mine its asteroids.That throws me in a whole new level of strategy about the spirecrafts. Now I feel the whole galaxy is mine ! (Mine... to mine... pun-pun-pun). I thought spirecrafts were precious and I barely never used the one-time-use ones (martyr, ram, shield). Now I feel like I can spam martyrs or stash a huge pile of them for the final homeworld assaults. Strangely, even in the """hard""" version, I feel this MF is a bit overpowered. Eh, the golems were overpowered too... Don't you feel even the hard versions of Golem and Spirecraft gives too much power for a not so terrifying trade-off? I didn't play with the golems since a long time but I remember feeling a big difference in difficulty when I decided to play without them.

Questions:

1) Did you know?
2) Do you feel it's balanced?
3) What about an alternate version (difficulty "extra hard"?) where only captured planets can be mined?
Yeah, I seem to remember this came up for discussion once before (2? 3? years ago), and it's... kind of abuse-able?  You can save some AIP by not capturing the systems.
On the other hand, you've got to travel to an AI controlled world, secure the system long enough to produce your Spirecraft, which for high-mark units can take a long time, and then escort your new Spirecraft back to your territory.

If this is easy for you, then you've already got complete control over AI space, have the Special Forces under control, and don't need your fleet to defend anything.  If the game is going that well for you, what does a few Spirecraft matter?

On the other hand, if this is hard for you to do, then what's the harm in letting the player get a few Spirecraft in exchange for pulling off an expensive, difficult, and long raid into AI territory?

I, personally, don't feel it is unbalanced.

Offline Pumpkin

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,194
  • Neinzul Gardener Enclave
Re: WTF: spirecraft asteroids mining in enemy territory
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2016, 03:53:57 PM »
On the other hand, you've got to travel to an AI controlled world, secure the system long enough to produce your Spirecraft, which for high-mark units can take a long time, and then escort your new Spirecraft back to your territory.
Sounds fair enough, indeed.

If this is easy for you, then you've already got complete control over AI space, have the Special Forces under control, and don't need your fleet to defend anything.  If the game is going that well for you, what does a few Spirecraft matter?
I'm around 50 AIP after 4h30 on a 7/7 tree map. Not a difficult setting and assassin style. The first CPA was ridiculous. So yep, getting free spirecrafts in that setting is too easy, but clearly because of the setting.

On the other hand, if this is hard for you to do, then what's the harm in letting the player get a few Spirecraft in exchange for pulling off an expensive, difficult, and long raid into AI territory?

I, personally, don't feel it is unbalanced.
Thanks a lot for your comment. It sounds much better explained like that.
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.
Pumpkin>> Do I need another cure about paranoia on top of overexcitement?
Mal>> We play AI War, enthusiasm and paranoia are both required!

Offline Pumpkin

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,194
  • Neinzul Gardener Enclave
Re: WTF: spirecraft asteroids mining in enemy territory
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2016, 06:19:34 AM »
And why did I supposed exogalactic strikeforces were spawning from AI homeworlds?

I'm playing in a tree galaxy with an archipelago style ; I waited to exo down the tree, on a node cutting the AI's homewords from mine, and was !!surprised!! to see the exo spawn "in my back".

I searched the wiki (I like this new "blank" theme. :P) and found the page of the exo (here). There is nothing about how they spawn and roam. Just the "beeline toward player's homeworld". Nothing about the "from" or detail about multiple players / homeworlds. Nothing in the Fallen Spire spoiler neither. IIRC the FS's ones spawn at the nearest warpgate. Do the spirecraft's and golem's ones do the same? Anyway, the wiki will be edited soon after being brought back online!

I'm amazed that after so long times playing this game, I still discover new details and mechanisms. Best game ever.
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.
Pumpkin>> Do I need another cure about paranoia on top of overexcitement?
Mal>> We play AI War, enthusiasm and paranoia are both required!

Online Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,925
Re: WTF: spirecraft asteroids mining in enemy territory
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2016, 11:07:55 AM »
Rams are pretty much THE best use of the cheap 'roids.  You get so many of the class 1 and 2 that they end up cluttering your plants and there's almost nothing useful to be made with them.

Then you figure out that each one makes 4 rams, of which you can have like 32, you them launch them en-masse at something and build more.  Very few structure are susceptible to their damage, but the remaining few are important targets.

Offline tadrinth

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 426
Re: WTF: spirecraft asteroids mining in enemy territory
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2016, 05:31:31 PM »
Some exos do reliably spawn from the AI homeworlds.  Champion nemesis exos definitely do, and they always choose your home command station as a chase target. 

The exos that spawn when taking too long to kill an AI homeworld may also spawn from that AI homeworld.  I think they do.  Haven't actually seen them since they changed to their present incarnation.