I don't think you're going to get an AIP-less superweapon. It's sort of contradictory to the whole concept of AI progress: You get powerful, the AI is supposed to notice. And even if you build it yourself, skipping the AIP from destroying a command station to take a world, it'll still cost knowledge to get. In fact, it'll probably still cost the same AIP (or more) indirectly, since you'll have to take a world, or possibly 2, to get the knowledge to pay for it, or the hacking points to get the knowledge. And then you have to build it, which just sounds complicated. We're better off just stealing one.Well, it's not AIP free exactly. You need at least four planets that are not your homeworld to build it. The idea is that it's a superweapon you don't have to target, it'll be available as long as you're willing to pay the resources and risk losing it.
The other is to make it a Mk. IV Heavy Beam Turret with thrusters and even more health/armor. The problem is that I'm not sure if that justifies Golem status, much less multimillion units of metal.IMO: not interesting. As long as there is only one support golem (the regenerator one), adding a new non-brutal golem really pleases me. A flagship-golem? Works for me! A golem with a photon lance? Why not, but we've got the exodian blade (not a regular broken golem, I know, but...) and tons of brutal BGolems. This flag-golem is a great idea.
isAll golems have the scout ability. I see no reason why this one wouldn't.
Don't know whether it should also have scouting and tachyon, because it's not a replacement for a scout vessel, even if it is a superior support unit.
Command-Net Golem : 5M Metal 50,000 Energy Ship Cap - 1Not talking about pure numbers but rather number ranges and abilities, sounds good to me. I would say less speed, less attack and more heal, but that's petty tweaking.
Health - 2.5 M, Armor 100, Attack- 500 x 25 , Ammo: Railgun, Range: 10,000 , Speed: 25, Effects: Translocation, Tachyon Coverage 5k, Boosts ships within 10,000 for +50% damage and 50% speed increase
All Ships within 5000 gain Teleport, Any Ships sent to the System the Command-Net golem is in from Galaxy view, instantly teleport to it but are stunned for 3 seconds.I disagree with this. Too weird, hard to balance, and I imagine way too complex to code. And what about a ship moving/teleporting from outside to inside the effect range? Or the opposite? And what about the speed boost? Too messy, too useless. And the "reverse warpgate effect"? Wat? TL;DR: I'm not fan.
(...) AIP-less way to get a superweapon (...) It needs to be built in parts (...) Only one part can be built on a planet, and they're immobile until the pieces are put together. You need a transport with nothing else inside to get a piece to the build site. Oh and you can only ever get 1.
(uses a star as a power source (Dyson Sphere 2.0?))I have a suspicion that a vessel of the scale this implies is well beyond the capabilities of humanity in the AI War universe, at least at the time the game is set at. The actual Zenith Dyson Sphere is implied to be significantly larger than any of the other golems in the game, and I'd tend to suspect that the majority of the existing golems are no larger than perhaps a small planet (perhaps something the size of the Moon), if that. Spirecraft almost certainly are not significantly larger than the asteroids they're made from, and they're already at least as large as just about anything mobile that the humans of AI War can build with their own technology. To jump from building ships roughly the size of a large asteroid to building ships large enough to contain a star is an incredible jump in capability; beyond that, such a vessel would require enormous quantities of resources to construct, to the point that I rather suspect it'd be impractical while also fighting the AI (I'm not speaking about this from a game mechanics perspective, but from the perspective of realism within the game universe).
Modular GolemThe Modular Golem sounds like it's much the same thing as the heavier player-usable Imperial Spire ships or champions. I'm not sure how the Teleporter Golem is supposed to distinguish itself from the existing golems except by its inconvenient-to-use-with-a-fleet mode of travel.
Teleporter (Battlestation?) Golem
Transporter Golem (Assault Transport in steroids)By which you mean what, exactly? Spirecraft Jumpship with assault transport capacity and abilities?
So, no mantis post? Don't let these ideas spoil; go ahead, polish and post it.
Okay. Then what about that?So, no mantis post? Don't let these ideas spoil; go ahead, polish and post it.
I don't really think the idea is polished enough or warranted enough to post a mantis for. Maybe if there were a more fleshed out idea of what was desired was here...but it's not, so I would not bring any attention to it.
5M Metal 50,000 Energy+ gather scout intel (like all golems)
Health - 2.5 M, Armor 100, Attack- 500 x 25 , Ammo: Railgun, Range: 10,000 , Speed: 25, Effects: Translocation, Tachyon Coverage 5k, Boosts ships within 10,000 for +50% damage and 50% speed increase
So, no mantis post? Don't let these ideas spoil; go ahead, polish and post it.Not yet, want to hammer out a firmer idea of how this should work. Some neat points have been brought up that I want to address, and then I have a suggestion that could be fun. Or FUN in the Dwarf Fortress sense.
Health- 2.5 Million | Armor- 5,000 | Shields- 1 Million, 1,000 Range, does not shrink with damage | Speed- 25 |
Attack 1 - Implosive Artillery Railguns x1,Reload- 1 Sec, 1% implosion, 30,000 Range | Attack 2- Octa-Laser Array x3,Reload- 3 Sec, 10,000 damage, 10,000 Range, 3x versus Heavy, Artillery |
Radar Dampening - 10,000 Range | EMP Net- Acts as a constant EMP effect to all within 5,000 range | Insurgency Virus Payload- Each AI command post you kill with Insurgency Battle-Star reduces AIP by 10. Additionally, you gain +10 HAP. ( You still gain AIP from killing the Command Post). | Critical Command - Upon death of the Insurgency Battle-Star, the AI gains +100 AIP |
Health- 20 Million | Armor- Implosion Resistance 50%, 5,000 Armor | Speed- 20 |
Attack 1- Astral Engine x1 , Range - 5,000, Reload- 1 Sec, 100,000 damage * Number of Systems Controlled, x3 versus Command-Grade | Attack 2- Nova Warhead x1, Range- 35,000, Reload- 10 Sec, Area- 5,000, 10,000 damage * Number of Systems Controlled, x3 versus Medium |
Total Demand- You no longer receive energy from captured planets. | Corona Engine- When you destroy an AI Command Post, you receive an additional Corona Legion at the system. However, it is immobile and you cannot build any structures at the system. | Trans-dimensional Explosion- When the first Corona Legion is scrapped or destroyed, all planets that have a Corona Legion at them explode as if a Nuke went off. |
FUN in the Dwarf Fortress sense.Then it's spelled !!fun!! (or !!FUN!! if you're a capslock aficionado).
Starting with you, the reason I don't want a flagship broken Golem is that the Zenith are not humans. Having a non-Zenithian Broken Golem gets away from the entire point of broken Golems, which is that they're barely understood weapons from a long lost alien race. They work differently than human ships, reflecting their alien nature. I want a human supership that uses the mechanics associated with human ships. I also don't want to copy how other superweapons are acquired.Ok, then I'll post the simple Zenith Flagship Golem apart.
I mentioned way at the start of this that I had a neat idea. Basically you'd start with a golem part and get a journal entry saying it's one of several and the rest were lost or taken by the AI. They're seeded on the map in containers like Distribution Nodes, and need to be Transported back to the homeworld. You can build SOME of the parts to cover for ones that might be too far or too heavily defended. The last part you need is an energy source and can't be built until you have the other parts. You can pay for it with knowledge at a hefty cost (5k?), or you can acquire it in other ways. I figure either it could be purchasable from the Trader, or you could make one by choosing to give up a ZPG. (Alternatively, maybe you could find one in an Astro Train, thus giving a reason to include ATs).That's damn good! Clear, fun, new... Good job! Now I feel the "how to obtain" part is done and ready for mantis post.
The FUN comes when you go to install it. We know we can catch the AIs attention without increasing how much of a threat it considers you (FS and with hacking). The Golem powersource is a very shiny thing and shows up on all sorts of sensors until it's shielded on your Golem. Installation takes time (5-10 min) and can't be sped up. So you get an exo-hacking response right on your doorstep until the AI loses interest. The response actually lasts longer than the installation, so you get to use your new toy to mop up the last of it.
As an aside, the human Golem raises AIP when it's destroyed. 100 points like the home command center, and the Shark plots go off as well. It's a major victory for the AI after all.
Pumpkin... May I say "broken" without it being a pun about golems? Yap, I'm sorry, Mal. Your Insurgency Virus Payload touching AIP balance is dangerous, and without it there is nothing thematic. Your Corona Legion is thematic: eating planets seems cool; but I fear the game would transform into "eat to the core", easy-conquest play.
I would agree with Aeson on the subject of humanity's manufacturing ability were it not for the Zenith Trader. 36M resources gets you a Superfortress, which is a Golem in all but name and wormhole travel. If you're crazy there's also the MK V Ion Cannon, which costs an astronomical 259M. These suggest that humanity CAN fund super projects given the proper technology. Also, Golems haven't taken attrition since 7.0x, there's no resource infusions beyond the usual after the reconstruction. :D (The Dyson Sphere is another million miles past that though, since a proper Dyson Sphere really would have a star inside).That a state can purchase a battleship does not imply that that state has the ability to build said battleship. Just about every vessel larger than the human starships that is available to the player was built by a non-human faction, even if the resources for the vessel were provided by humans.
I think I accidentally a sentence there; the point I was (trying to) make with that line is that human remnant clearly has the material capacity to support Golem construction, but not the technological base.QuoteI would agree with Aeson on the subject of humanity's manufacturing ability were it not for the Zenith Trader. 36M resources gets you a Superfortress, which is a Golem in all but name and wormhole travel. If you're crazy there's also the MK V Ion Cannon, which costs an astronomical 259M. These suggest that humanity CAN fund super projects given the proper technology. Also, Golems haven't taken attrition since 7.0x, there's no resource infusions beyond the usual after the reconstruction. :D (The Dyson Sphere is another million miles past that though, since a proper Dyson Sphere really would have a star inside).That a state can purchase a battleship does not imply that that state has the ability to build said battleship. Just about every vessel larger than the human starships that is available to the player was built by a non-human faction, even if the resources for the vessel were provided by humans.
Also, mobility is huge, as far as construction difficulty goes. It's one thing to make a giant, immobile (more or less) ball in space. It's something entirely different to be able to make it move without the stresses tearing it to pieces at reasonable accelerations.
I think I accidentally a sentence there; the point I was (trying to) make with that line is that human remnant clearly has the material capacity to support Golem construction, but not the technological base.
Given the Exile is the basis for the AI, and the fact that AI controlled Golems are almost certainly recent copies and not repaired broken superweapons it's an easy guess that Golem research was a hot topic in both human states. Part of the reason I've been emphasizing the human Golem's singular nature is that it would be the first successful attempt by one of these nations to ape the constructions left behind by the Zenith. It's a super-prototype, basically irreplaceable, last best hope for peace/victory kind of deal.
I don't buy (heh) the line about the Trader building its goods for you, you see it leave and it's your engineers who'll do most of the construction. I think the Traders provide the schematics and certain black boxes and the actual work is undertaken by the faction that bought the item.
So yeah, that's my take at least.
QuotePumpkin... May I say "broken" without it being a pun about golems? Yap, I'm sorry, Mal. Your Insurgency Virus Payload touching AIP balance is dangerous, and without it there is nothing thematic. Your Corona Legion is thematic: eating planets seems cool; but I fear the game would transform into "eat to the core", easy-conquest play.
Well considering how much work you have to put into building the golem from Wata's post, this seems appropriate. Each of the Golem's do add something to the mid-game where an AI is already vamping up to be pretty dangerous. The Insurgency Battle-Star helps accelerate a hacking happy player, which while good, still is limited by your ability to control ever growing AI responses. The Corona Legion has a humongous drawback of focusing your entire empire to wherever your Corona Legion goes, which can be really bad when it comes to CPA's and the like.
What specific criticism do you have for these ideas that made them appear "too good to be in the game"?
Pumpkin -I'm glad all these super features are options, then every gamer can play the way it want: powergame or assassination style. Arcen did a great job about that.
Health- 600,000, Regeneration 100 | Armor- 200, Hull Ultra-Heavy | Speed- 45, | Shields- 200,000 Range 5,000 Does not Shrink |
Weapon 1- Spire-Railgun x2 9,000 Damage, Range 35,000, Reload 8 sec, Knockback, x2 Versus Light, Medium | Weapon 1 - Zenith Laser Array x4 4,000 Damage, Range 15,000, Reload 2 Sec, x3 versus Heavy, Polycrystal |
Neinzul Regeneration Shroud - All ships within 5,000 gain 100 Regeneration | Transgeneration Module - If a human command center in the system that the "Rebellion" is in would die, the "Rebellion" suffers 100,000 damage instead and the command center is restored to full health. |
"Rebellion" Class Battle-Dreadnought
Combining the R&D efforts on observed Zenith, Spire, and Neinzul ships, the "Rebellion" provides a quick response to sudden AI attacks, has a powerful long range artillery for support, and helps fleet logistics.
Requirements - Gather Zenith, Neinzul, and Spire technology fragments, capture AI Hyper-Node power supply in systems at least 3 jumps away from current empire.
Health- 600,000, Regeneration 100 Armor- 200, Hull Ultra-Heavy Speed- 45, Shields- 200,000 Range 5,000 Does not Shrink
Weapon 1- Spire-Railgun x2 9,000 Damage, Range 35,000, Reload 8 sec, Knockback, x2 Versus Light, Medium Weapon 1 - Zenith Laser Array x4 4,000 Damage, Range 15,000, Reload 2 Sec, x3 versus Heavy, Polycrystal
Neinzul Regeneration Shroud - All ships within 5,000 gain 100 Regeneration Transgeneration Module - If a human command center in the system that the "Rebellion" is in would die, the "Rebellion" suffers 100,000 damage instead and the command center is restored to full health.
What do you think Watashiwa?
I think that I've not been paying enough attention to this thread. :oSummoning is complete.
Clearly, the first human built golem needs to be the Pancake Golem. :PWe already have the Nomad Bacon Golem. Why not?