Author Topic: Waves with no warp gate?  (Read 743 times)

Offline Elestan

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Waves with no warp gate?
« on: November 10, 2017, 05:52:13 PM »
So I'm getting near the end of my game, and I'm seeing the AI starting to just send waves to systems I control in my interior, without a warp gate or command station anywhere nearby, and thereby bypass my defenses.  What allows the AI to do this?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 05:54:32 PM by Elestan »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Waves with no warp gate?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 06:06:35 PM »
The first thing that comes to mind is waves triggered by the destruction of a counterattack post.

The second thing is a Warp Jumper AI, but you would have noticed that earlier.

Waves get different if you've destroyed all warp gates that border you, but iirc it just spawns them at an AI warp gate then.
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Offline BadgerBadger

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Re: Waves with no warp gate?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 06:26:56 PM »
Do you have Warp Relays on?

Offline Elestan

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Re: Waves with no warp gate?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 07:45:11 PM »
The first thing that comes to mind is waves triggered by the destruction of a counterattack post.

I'm guessing the "Counter-wave" announced during the Showdown counts as one of these?  That's what's going on right now.  I think the previous time I saw it was during a big hacking response.

This seems a little sketchy, from a plot standpoint.  If the AI is intelligent, and has the ability to drop waves into my interior, shouldn't it just use that ability to wipe out my irreplaceables?

I suppose this falls in the same category as some of my earlier gripes; I like fictional worlds to have clear and consistent rules which, like the laws of physics, both the Player and the AI have to obey.  The more exceptions are made to those rules, the more it strains my suspension of disbelief in the world.

Offline Toranth

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Re: Waves with no warp gate?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 10:18:48 PM »
Well, the in-universe logic is that the AI just doesn't care enough about you to bother.  It's the same story-reason it doesn't immediately send every unit on the map at you the moment you start the game.  On the other hand, during the Showdown, you're actually threatening the AI in our galaxy, so you get some extra "special" attention.

More practically, players don't like the counter waves, so they are very limited in use.  Counter-attack guardposts, Warp Relays, and the Showdown - all of which can be turned off.  Even the Warp Jumper AI type can be easily avoided, along with the Backdoor Hacker (another unpopular AI type).  In earlier versions of the game, Counter-attack guardposts were common, and you'd be a lot more familiar with the mechanic (whether you wanted to be or not) before you could begin a Showdown.

And the AI doesn't actually follow the same rules as the player. It doesn't manufacture units, have resources, perform research, or anything the player does.  Almost all of the AI mechanics are different, so this continues the trend.

Offline Elestan

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Re: Waves with no warp gate?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 11:43:57 PM »
And the AI doesn't actually follow the same rules as the player. It doesn't manufacture units, have resources, perform research, or anything the player does.  Almost all of the AI mechanics are different, so this continues the trend.

Those all have better explanations, though:
* The AI does manufacture units - they're just being produced in another galaxy.
* The AI does have resources, and they're not infinite - in fact the premise of the game (to my understanding) is that most of those resources are committed to the war with the Spire, so you're only getting a small fraction of them.  If they were truly infinite, the AI would just send an H/K after you at the start of the game, and that would be that.
* The AI does do research; it's just off-screen.  How else would the Hybrids come to be?

So I can rationalize those away - at least well enough for my suspension of disbelief to tolerate.  But the ability to materialize units anywhere on the map crosses the line for me; it's too "magical". too capricious. and as many players have apparently decided, not very fun either.

On the plus side, I do have enough of a reserve to deal with the intruders, and still hold the line against the combined Showdown and 10 Spire City ExoTranceiver waves...at least so far.  If my forces get depleted too far, my energy reserves will rise to the point that the Exodian Blade activates...at least that's the plan.

T-19 minutes...