Some Negative Feedback [Sorry]

[Fleet]

No love for the expensive fleetships, eh?

http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=2902

[TechSY730]

Back to the Spire gravity drains. After actually facing the new 8000 gravity range versions, I gotta say, 8000 range is not all that much. Missile frigates out-range that, and the ranges of the bombers and the standard fighters are a little more than half that (around 4200 or something). The only time you will really be suffering is if you are using short range ships or melee ships. So despite that large sounding number, they aren't really that bad.

Okay, the higher Mk. versions will begin to hurt because of how much they slow down, but the lower Mk. versions won't be able to stall long enough to really make a huge difference.

[keith.lamothe]

Back to the Spire gravity drains. After actually facing the new 8000 gravity range versions, I gotta say, 8000 range is not all that much. Missile frigates out-range that, and the ranges of the bombers and the standard fighters are a little more than half that (around 4200 or something). The only time you will really be suffering is if you are using short range ships or melee ships. So despite that large sounding number, they aren't really that bad.

Okay, the higher Mk. versions will begin to hurt because of how much they slow down, but the lower Mk. versions won't be able to stall long enough to really make a huge difference.

I had suspected that the increase in range was making the mkIV and mkV drains so incredibly punishing.  The increased slow on them is bad enough.

Anyway, I am planning to cut down their ship cap and make it non-scaling.  So probably to 0.05 or 0.10 or something like that.  That will make for more durable but less spammy grav ships, and deal with the unit-scale-makes-such-a-large-difference problem.

[TechSY730]

I had suspected that the increase in range was making the mkIV and mkV drains so incredibly punishing.  The increased slow on them is bad enough.

Anyway, I am planning to cut down their ship cap and make it non-scaling.  So probably to 0.05 or 0.10 or something like that.  That will make for more durable but less spammy grav ships, and deal with the unit-scale-makes-such-a-large-difference problem.

So you are balancing them to the "starship tier" of fleet ships? So you agree with Sunshine that gravity effects are so valuable they should be rare?

And how will that effect my current game? (Both AIs unlocked Spire gravity drains in my game )

[keith.lamothe]

No love for the expensive fleetships, eh?

http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=2902

I... don't think I've ever unlocked the spire starship  It had slipped my mind that it had 7000 knowledge cost, though Chris has done the balancing on that one since I dunno when. 7000  knowledge is a lot.

At least, the mantis issue you linked to talks about the spire starship, rather than expensive fleetships (or do you mean fleet starships?), had you meant something else?

[Sunshine!]

I posted a suggestion for normalizing knowledge costs at a lower point than 12000 for getting to mk3 (6000 for getting to mk3 for a "common" non-alien-tech starship, 10500 for an uncommon alien-tech), and for splitting the Fleet Starship line into distinct Fleet Starships, Zenith Starships, and Spire Starships, because of the vast differences between the Flagship, Zenith Starship, and Spire Starship, both thematically and functionally.  It's the only sequence in the game that's still like that since the leech/raid split long long ago, I think it's time to normalize it.

Here's the link http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=3080

For those of you who have been clamoring for a modular combat (non-disruption) starship, the proposal is for the new Spire Starship line to be the base for that modular combat starship to tie into the Fallen Spire campaign thematically.