Arcen Games

Games => AI War Classic => Topic started by: x4000 on September 16, 2009, 09:20:04 AM

Title: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: x4000 on September 16, 2009, 09:20:04 AM
The basic rule is this:  keep it work safe.

I've managed to avoid having to really talk about profanity here for a long while because the community was small and close, but now it's growing at an increasing rate and we need to make sure that everyone feels welcome here.  I'm not interested in clubbing people over the head for slips of the tongue or whatever, but let's just try to keep the language to a level that is PG/PG13. 

Mild Stuff Is Okay
I myself say crap, hell, bloody, etc, for emphasis, and as long as this isn't something that is maliciously directed at someone else I think that's just a part of normal adult speech in most areas, even in mixed company.  Excessive cursing, dropping the f-bomb all over the place, the b-word, the c-word, etc, and things of that nature tend to make a lot more people uncomfortable, however, so let's stay away from that.

Let's Try Not To Offend People
Beyond the issue of cursing itself is the use of slurs, which thankfully has not yet been an issue.  There have been some recent comments that have been reported to moderators, however, that were coming a bit close to slurs -- either they were offensive to women, or people with varying sexual preferences, or they were just plain out using some words that normally one wouldn't want to encounter in polite conversation ("cuddly hug," in particular, seems to offend some -- consider reamed, or decimated, or something else along those lines).  Please don't use those sorts of things, it just makes more work and trouble for me, and/or offends other customers.

Demographics Are Changing
The main demographic here in these forums is presently males between the ages of 20 to 40 or so.  When a group of guys get together, often our speech patterns shift a bit and we make jokes that we would not around our wives or girlfriends, etc -- or our kids (unless they are grown), for that matter.  We're seeing more youngsters and women entering the forums in general, though, and some of Arcen's future titles will be aimed very much at kids (this is a few years off, but still). 

We'll always have titles for hardcore gamers, but that's not all we're interested in making.  So let's keep it as clean and welcoming as reasonable, without putting a lid on things to a degree that people feel uncomfortable expressing themselves.  This isn't Disney or Nintendo, but this isn't a forum for M-rated games, either.  I have a feeling that most of the Arcen titles will be either E or T (on the American ESRB scale), so let's just keep that in mind.

Thanks!

Tone
Important Addendum:  Also, please remember that tone is very poorly conveyed through written mediums like this (http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/02/70179).  In most cases that have been reported for moderation, I knew enough about the person who made the comment to know that they had been joking or sarcastic, but to an outsider coming in this was not clear.  Does this mean we have to be humorless?  Not at all.  But keeping the innate unclarity of tone in writing in mind may help solve those few issues that have arisen. 

When writing suggestions in to me, it also helps if you keep that in mind -- some suggestions from new forum members (or old regulars, on rarer occasion) come off as overly aggressive, preachy, or demanding to me, which I never appreciate.  Often that's not at all the sense in which the suggestion was made, so I try to put my emotions aside and respond to each suggestion on its merits alone, but this causes me a lot of heartburn when it happens.  It's almost invariably a big misunderstanding, but if more care is taken to make the tone clear (or at least avoid a seemingly snarky tone), that just makes my life a little more pleasant. ;)
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Haagenti II on September 16, 2009, 04:46:48 PM
On an not wholly unrelated note, I always wondered what was wrong with some words, where similar words are allowed in SF shows like Battle Star Galactica (frak!) and Red Dwarf (smeg!)
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Echo35 on September 16, 2009, 07:17:37 PM
On an not wholly unrelated note, I always wondered what was wrong with some words, where similar words are allowed in SF shows like Battle Star Galactica (frak!) and Red Dwarf (smeg!)

Don't worry, I use Frak in every day conversation. ;D
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: eRe4s3r on September 16, 2009, 08:46:12 PM
I probably can safely assume that so far none of the reported posts to a moderator where actually profanity (what ever the hell that is (yes, that is hopefully flagged as profanity  ;D)  :D But given that i got one of those too its really.. ehm  ::) problematic.

If its not too big a change, can moderators please start to change posts (to their moderation urges) without sending the originator of a post a pm to do so? (Rather, send the originator a pm with the reason why it was edited).

Given that i am totally for moderation i hope the rules can be made a bit cleaner/sleaker and clear.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Revenantus on September 16, 2009, 08:54:57 PM
Thus far, none of the posts reported to me have been intentionally offensive/abusive, or included excessive obscene language, or links to such content. Therefore, I have had no interest in forcefully editing the posts without the user's permission because they didn't meet any of my criteria for instant moderation.

Instead, my policy in such cases is to make the poster aware that their post may be considered offensive by some, and give them the opportunity to edit it if they so wish. I will respect their decision either way. The user editing their own post in this way is as much a benefit to themselves as it is everyone else, as it affects how they will be perceived by others.

If it is the case that your post is obviously offensive, abusive, or obscene, it will be automatically edited and locked. I hope that this never happens, and given my experience of the community here I don't expect it to.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: x4000 on September 16, 2009, 08:58:13 PM
Thus far, none of the posts reported to me have been intentionally offensive/abusive, or included excessive obscene language, or links to such content. Therefore, I have had no interest in forcefully editing the posts without the user's permission because they didn't meet any of my criteria for instant moderation.

Instead, my policy in such cases is to make the poster aware that their post may be considered offensive by some, and give them the opportunity to edit it if they so wish. I will respect their decision either way. The user editing their own post in this way is as much a benefit to themselves as it is everyone else, as it affects how they will be perceived by others.

If it is the case that your post is obviously offensive, abusive, or obscene, it will be automatically edited and locked. I hope that this never happens, and given my experience of the community here I don't expect it to.

I support this.  We're not looking to have to be censors here, or to completely put on the kid gloves.  Hopefully the community can largely self-regulate based on the general guidelines I put above, and based on the tenor and style of most of the posts around here.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: zebramatt on November 26, 2009, 02:36:26 PM
Zarking fardwarks!
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: raptor331 on January 12, 2010, 05:46:19 PM
Zarking fardwarks!

My thoughts exactly :-X
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Shrugging Khan on February 26, 2012, 03:50:53 PM
Has there been a case in which a reader notified anyone of his being offended by any post?
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: x4000 on February 26, 2012, 04:03:14 PM
Has there been a case in which a reader notified anyone of his being offended by any post?

Yes, several dozen cases of this.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Shrugging Khan on February 26, 2012, 07:32:08 PM
I'm impressed. What word was the most popular offender?  :P
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: keith.lamothe on February 26, 2012, 07:44:16 PM
I'm impressed. What word was the most popular offender?  :P
Hybrid.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: x4000 on February 26, 2012, 09:24:27 PM
Starts with r, ends with pe.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: zoutzakje on February 27, 2012, 06:53:13 AM
Starts with r, ends with pe.

rupee? no wait, that's with 2 e's... :P
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: tigersfan on February 27, 2012, 09:25:44 AM
I got a report once about an f-bomb. It wasn't a huge deal, and the reporter was more frustrated by it than offended I'd say.

All in all, this is a pretty good community about that kind of stuff. I've worked for another website where I literally spent 30 hours or so a week just dealing with stuff like that.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: zoutzakje on February 27, 2012, 07:43:45 PM
I got a report once about an f-bomb. It wasn't a huge deal, and the reporter was more frustrated by it than offended I'd say.

All in all, this is a pretty good community about that kind of stuff. I've worked for another website where I literally spent 30 hours or so a week just dealing with stuff like that.

to be honest, I've never seen much abusive language on any strategy game forum (not that I've seen many, but still). It's usually the mmo's and shooters that attract people who enjoy cursing lol
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Nodor on March 14, 2012, 12:03:41 AM
I spend a lot of time cursing as a result of this game.

However, doing so at people isn't necessarily effective in a co-op multi-player environment.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Magron on March 20, 2014, 04:59:58 PM
Starts with r, ends with pe.

I think when we let people decide for us all that non profane words aren't acceptable it's all going a little too far.
In my experience, people will act as self centered and childish as you let them.
There will be no end to it as it becomes about power, not respect.
I think the word Blue is offensive. Stop using it.  Silly of course but in time the whiners won't need the faint justification that cuddly hug  has regarding offensiveness.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: x4000 on March 20, 2014, 05:08:52 PM
Starts with r, ends with pe.

I think when we let people decide for us all that non profane words aren't acceptable it's all going a little too far.
In my experience, people will act as self centered and childish as you let them.
There will be no end to it as it becomes about power, not respect.
I think the word Blue is offensive. Stop using it.  Silly of course but in time the whiners won't need the faint justification that cuddly hug  has regarding offensiveness.

It has nothing to do with offensiveness, and everything to do with triggering.  Not using that word is not particularly an uncommon request.  It's a matter of polite respect in a certain social group, not a government crackdown on language usage.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Magron on March 20, 2014, 05:26:17 PM
Starts with r, ends with pe.

I think when we let people decide for us all that non profane words aren't acceptable it's all going a little too far.
In my experience, people will act as self centered and childish as you let them.
There will be no end to it as it becomes about power, not respect.
I think the word Blue is offensive. Stop using it.  Silly of course but in time the whiners won't need the faint justification that cuddly hug  has regarding offensiveness.

It has nothing to do with offensiveness, and everything to do with triggering.  Not using that word is not particularly an uncommon request.  It's a matter of polite respect in a certain social group, not a government crackdown on language usage.

exactly. a small handful of individuals forcing their view.
the appropriate response, imho, to such a complaint is "have you considered counseling to help you find a way to deal with your emotions OTHER than forcing other people arbitrarily to your will"
I see you completely missed the point of my post though... sigh...
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: keith.lamothe on March 20, 2014, 05:54:07 PM
exactly. a small handful of individuals forcing their view.
the appropriate response, imho, to such a complaint is "have you considered counseling to help you find a way to deal with your emotions OTHER than forcing other people arbitrarily to your will"
I see you completely missed the point of my post though... sigh...
The use of a term which means "to assault sexually" to mean "to defeat in military conflict" is quite unsettling to many people, not just a small handful.  I would not normally participate in conversations where that was very frequent behavior, for instance.

Put another way, we try to take reasonable measures to ensure that the community members (i.e. customers) can be comfortable here.

One reasonable measure is moderating the level of vulgarity to a point lower than the usual internet norm.

Another reasonable measure is not indulging requests like "I think (insert name of color name here) is offensive, please don't mention it".

If you don't see the very substantial difference, I don't think there's anything else I can say that would get through :)
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: ZaneWolfe on March 20, 2014, 10:28:41 PM
I'm impressed. What word was the most popular offender?  :P
Hybrid.

You know there might be a reason that Hybrids offend so many people Keith. But I can't see what it is. I just get some really shiny rocks and then all the mutated abominations just, go away.

Starts with r, ends with pe.

Having played at the higher difficulties, even with my hacking for infinite K, I can see the reason a certain word is used when describing AI tactics. I think many of us would complain less if the AI at least bought us dinner first. Or used lube.

Starts with r, ends with pe.

I think when we let people decide for us all that non profane words aren't acceptable it's all going a little too far.
In my experience, people will act as self centered and childish as you let them.
There will be no end to it as it becomes about power, not respect.
I think the word Blue is offensive. Stop using it.  Silly of course but in time the whiners won't need the faint justification that cuddly hug  has regarding offensiveness.

It has nothing to do with offensiveness, and everything to do with triggering.  Not using that word is not particularly an uncommon request.  It's a matter of polite respect in a certain social group, not a government crackdown on language usage.

exactly. a small handful of individuals forcing their view.
the appropriate response, imho, to such a complaint is "have you considered counseling to help you find a way to deal with your emotions OTHER than forcing other people arbitrarily to your will"
I see you completely missed the point of my post though... sigh...

Margon, I can see where you are coming from. Honest. Because having a small minority tell the majority that a certain word is very hard for them to hear so the rest of us are not allowed to speak it, sounds INCREDIBLY stupid. I can also see where the Arcen staff is coming from too. Pissing off either customers or potential customers is NOT good business practice, no matter what certain AAA companies get away with. Looking at you EA. They want to broaden their customer base, and more power to them. That also comes with the need to keep their forums a tad more PC than the rest of the general internet. Kinda sucks, but that's business.

However, I can also see where the third side of the argument is coming from. You can't. And I personally hope you never do. Somethings can't be understood until you are a part of them. This is a small request. And in all honesty, is it really a hard request to do? You don't need to understand the why and you don't want to.  Trust me.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Kahuna on March 21, 2014, 01:21:21 AM
Using the word that starts with r and ends with pe to describe victory or success is incredibly stupid. It's about as stupid as using "gay" to describe negative things. If one wants to talk like an idiot one can go play League Of Legends.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Zeyi on March 21, 2014, 06:45:21 AM
Using the word that starts with r and ends with pe to describe victory or success is incredibly stupid. It's about as stupid as using "gay" to describe negative things. If one wants to talk like an idiot one can go play League Of Legends.

I think it's more commonly used to describe military defeat, which whilst still inappropriate is more understandable. Perhaps not in a forum setting, but if we look at actual war, actual defeats where a soldier might be screaming down the radio for reinforcements because they are getting R'd  it becomes more forgivable as their level of suffering is debatably similar to sexual assault (although I'm not wanting to start that discussion haha). I'm fine with avoiding offending people but I do question when things might get too far (I don't think we are here) but I would point out that I know more than a handful of social groups that find the R word offensive would also find this very game deplorable.

I had a female friend get very upset at me after she had been laughing at the death sounds on Bionic Dues, she thought they were utterly hilarious until I told her the name of the game. She then decided the whole thing was a pun and disgustingly insulting. It was... odd but people will draw strange conclusions at their whim.

Basically, I'm all for maintaining a friendly community with as little vulgarity as possible but let's not forget who the demographic is playing these games. I don't think there is an issue now at all by the way but it's been a while since I read this post and noticed it mentions you plan to make children's games. I heavily suggest you make a separate forum for that when the time comes.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Histidine on March 21, 2014, 08:05:08 AM
However, I can also see where the third side of the argument is coming from. You can't. And I personally hope you never do. Somethings can't be understood until you are a part of them. This is a small request. And in all honesty, is it really a hard request to do? You don't need to understand the why and you don't want to.  Trust me.
Seconding this.

For most of us here on this forum, it's just a word. But for a very large part of the population, particularly in some places, it represents something they have to worry about constantly. And for a small segment, it's a concept that involves trauma that can last for years. Try to remember that.

The key point here is: It costs us essentially nothing to avoid using words carelessly, and it saves the other people involved a lot of issues. At the end of the day, it's just common courtesy.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: KingIsaacLinksr on March 21, 2014, 08:36:53 AM
And there are such things as dictionaries which give us an abundance of new words that we can use instead of four letter words. The bonus side effect of learning new words is that you sound much more intelligent.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: x4000 on March 21, 2014, 08:59:56 AM
I had a female friend get very upset at me after she had been laughing at the death sounds on Bionic Dues, she thought they were utterly hilarious until I told her the name of the game. She then decided the whole thing was a pun and disgustingly insulting. It was... odd but people will draw strange conclusions at their whim.

Wait... what?  I'm not aware of a pun there, certainly not one that is offensive.  Now I'm just curious.

And for a small segment, it's a concept that involves trauma that can last for years. Try to remember that.

Like me, actually.  Never happened to me, but two people I am close to.  One was murdered after.  I don't get offended when people use the word, it doesn't "trigger" me, but it's not a topic I like discussing, either.  And having a taste of this, I totally get where someone who is closer in would be utterly traumatized to have it constantly brought up.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Zeyi on March 21, 2014, 09:27:16 AM
I consider it to be a unique case so I don't want to draw too much discussion around it and for this reason I will PM you.

However, the reason I brought it up was an important one in that it's very easy to offend people and often completely unintentionally, seemingly without logic or reason. We can't know what someone else has been though, or how they perceive and experience something, thus approaching new situations with caution is important but I wouldn't want to put a strangle hold on myself or others in the name of political correctness. Sometimes it is just better to accept that some people will find something offensive, for example games oriented around war. The way to balance this is to, in my opinion keep your war games on their own forum and if you ever do divulge into child friendly games give them their own shiny, colourfully themed Arcen games forum. I think this would go a long way to keeping kids safe, keeping parents happy and allowing your war mongering customers to continue to use violent (but not vulgar!) language here.

In case there is any confusion, I have no issue with the 'R' word being prohibited. I'm just making new points after re-reading this topic with regards to the mention of children's games.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: x4000 on March 21, 2014, 09:37:45 AM
Oh, yeah, if we did children's games it would be on a completely different website, let alone forum.  It's all good.  And yes, I know it's easy to offend people; that's just part of life, and being a grown up, as we all seem to agree.  Anyhow, enough said.  Back to work for me. ;)
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Coppermantis on August 14, 2014, 05:51:33 AM
I had a female friend get very upset at me after she had been laughing at the death sounds on Bionic Dues, she thought they were utterly hilarious until I told her the name of the game. She then decided the whole thing was a pun and disgustingly insulting. It was... odd but people will draw strange conclusions at their whim.

Wait... what?  I'm not aware of a pun there, certainly not one that is offensive.  Now I'm just curious.

I know this thread was necroed by a spambot but I hadn't read this far in before and I'm really curious about this too. I've been running it through my head for about five minutes and come up with nothing.

Maybe taking the "Bi" at the beginning of Bionic to refer to bisexuals which then follows that bisexuals owe some kind of due...no, nope, I got nothing. Bizarre.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Cyborg on October 23, 2014, 08:03:16 PM
We will never know the hidden meaning found in bionic dues.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: keith.lamothe on October 23, 2014, 08:35:07 PM
The first time I mentioned the title to my wife she was initially puzzled and then laughed quite a bit, having changed many diapers recently.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: Cyborg on October 23, 2014, 08:40:49 PM
The first time I mentioned the title to my wife she was initially puzzled and then laughed quite a bit, having changed many diapers recently.


oh, it's a poop joke. I'm disappointed.
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: keith.lamothe on October 23, 2014, 08:43:54 PM
The other person's response may have been entirely different.  No idea what that one was.  Better left as a noodle incident than explained, perhaps :)
Title: Re: Rules: Regarding Profanity, Etc.
Post by: x4000 on October 23, 2014, 08:56:55 PM
I know the explanation on that one, as it was PMed to me.  Or, I should rephrase: I knew it, but it was so mind-warping that the knowledge has since fled my memory.  The poor guy was like "I know this makes no sense whatsoever, but I'm just the messenger; please don't shoot."  Out of respect for those involved I won't go digging through my PM history to see what it was. ;)