Author Topic: Kiting  (Read 1533 times)

Offline phil

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Kiting
« on: July 27, 2016, 02:39:28 PM »
Hi,

Would someone explain what kiting actually does?  I can see (many) recommendations in the forum to turn on kiting -- I'm using a value of 1000 -- but I'm a little confused about what that means.  Is it that my auto-kiting ships will move to X - 1000 from their target (if X is their attack range)?

...and why is it called kiting?  I"ve not come across the term in other games.

Thanks,
Phil.

Offline x4000

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Re: Kiting
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 03:13:04 PM »
The short answer is it keeps your troops moving away from the enemy so that your troops can shoot but ideally are out of range of the enemy.
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Offline phil

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Re: Kiting
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 03:17:13 PM »
The short answer is it keeps your troops moving away from the enemy so that your troops can shoot but ideally are out of range of the enemy.
Okay... but what does the value in the auto-kiting box mean, please?

Offline x4000

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Re: Kiting
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2016, 03:30:00 PM »
Distance in pixels to stay away, I believe.  I don't use it.
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Offline Lord Of Nothing

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Re: Kiting
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2016, 07:56:52 PM »
The Value in the box is the range threshold for which ships should use the auto-kiting behaviour- ships with a main weapon range higher thatn that will, ships with a lower range won't. IIRC, anyway.

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Kiting
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2016, 04:53:53 AM »
Kitting is the behavior achieved by "hit-and-run": moving out of target's range while kipping target in range. That, of course, requires both higher speed and range than said target. However, in AI War, many long-range units are slow, and many short-range units are fast.

There are few units in the game with builtin auto-kitting. For instance, the Zenith Bombardment Ship has a huge range and while it's rather slow, it's always good for it to keep its distance. Same thing for the Sniper. The Raptor is the only ship to combine both high speed (insane speed, in fact) and long range, making auto-kitting with it very interesting. The Space Plane has a special ability (radar dampening) which basically makes everything unable to target it past a certain range, and this range is shorter than the plane's range; as a result, this unit has a perk like "outrange everything". I'm sure I forget some other, but all these units have a "retreat range" perk displayed in their ID card. That feature doesn't requires the activation of the option you're speaking of. For regular ships, auto-kitting isn't required because they generally can't kite, because they have either a short range or a low speed. Often, the moves you'll have to do are more detailed than just hit-and-run.

For example, take a defensive move from frigate/fighter/bomber against an offensive move from a similar army. Hostile bombers will move toward the defending frigates: the frigates don't have the speed to escape their attack but they need to fall back in order to give time to allied fighters to intercept the offending bombers. Meanwhile, hostile frigates will follow the attack from a distance to provide anti-fighter coverage in order to protect the bomber assault. Defending bombers will try to counter-attack and move toward the isolated frigates, that's why hostile fighters need to play defensively and stay around their allied frigates to intercept the counter-attacking bombers.

In that kind of matchup, Attack-move (X-click) for attackers and FRD (V-click: free roaming defense) for defenders plus auto-kitting won't create that kind of tactical moves. Preferred target will help (with a specific ship type selected, manually target one of its preferred target then queue an attack-move with shift-X-click) but you deny yourself more advanced tactics like baiting or escorting.

All in all, auto-kitting + attack-move + preferred target will do more than a blind FRD, but to achieve true metal-efficiency, you'll need some tactical moves. While AI War is a game about macro decisions, it's also a game that values tactics. Don't let the features that help reducing the painful micro pull you away from the tactical layer below the strategical layer.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 04:59:26 AM by Pumpkin »
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.
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Offline Elestan

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Re: Kiting
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2016, 09:15:15 AM »
In that kind of matchup, Attack-move (X-click) for attackers and FRD (V-click: free roaming defense) for defenders plus auto-kitting won't create that kind of tactical moves. Preferred target will help (with a specific ship type selected, manually target one of its preferred target then queue an attack-move with shift-X-click) but you deny yourself more advanced tactics like baiting or escorting.

On the topics of kiting and escorting, I've noticed what I think are a few minor opportunities for improvements in those areas:
  • Group move limits group speed to the slowest ship, but it should also similarly limit acceleration.  Currently, different acceleration rates make ships scatter while starting to move, which can cause them to fall out of shield envelopes.
  • It would be nice if there were a way to durably assign a ship as an escort, perhaps by selecting them and target-clicking on a friendly ship to escort.  Escorts would be automatically included in move orders given to the escorted ship, without needing to select them.
  • It would be nice if there was some clear visual indication that a ship was kiting displayed when ALT was pressed.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 10:00:36 AM by Elestan »

Offline Kahuna

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Re: Kiting
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2016, 12:46:57 PM »
This
You should always use Auto-kite behavior. Set it to anything between 0 and 1000. Auto kiting range should be shorter than the range of any of your ships. Just set it to 1000 and all of your ships will auto kite. This will reduce the amount of enemy fire they take.
was my conclusion about auto kiting when I still actively played AI War. If I remember correctly your ship will move away from an AI ship when the distance to the AI ship is smaller or equal to the auto kiting range. Which would make sense because "Auto kiting range should be shorter than the range of any of your ships". So if the auto kiting range is greater than the range of your ship then the ship will move away from the AI ship even before the AI ship is in range of your ship.

...and why is it called kiting?  I"ve not come across the term in other games.
http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/18903/what-is-kiting
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 12:50:11 PM by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Kiting
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2016, 05:56:56 AM »
You should always use Auto-kite behavior.
That sure is a good advice, because "More automation and less micro? Sure!"
However I don't use it because I personally prefer doing my moves and retreats and bait and stuff by myself. The scattering behavior induced by the auto-kite displeases me. This is a personal taste; feel free to use the auto-kite if it suits yours. (I realized I was a bit categorical in my previous post. Sorry about that.)
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.
Pumpkin>> Do I need another cure about paranoia on top of overexcitement?
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: Kiting
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2016, 02:28:43 AM »
There has been a lot of situations where I thought of disabling auto kiting because I wanted my ships to stay still. For example when a massive wave/CPA hit my brick wall defenses and I want my Munitions Boosters to stay still under force fields so they can keep boosting the turrets as long as possible.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Elestan

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Re: Kiting
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2016, 03:53:05 PM »
There has been a lot of situations where I thought of disabling auto kiting because I wanted my ships to stay still. For example when a massive wave/CPA hit my brick wall defenses and I want my Munitions Boosters to stay still under force fields so they can keep boosting the turrets as long as possible.

I think there should be an option for suppressing kiting behavior while under a FF.

Offline phil

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Re: Kiting
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2016, 10:43:10 AM »
Many thanks for the replies -- they've been very helpful.  (I've found it useful today to turn off auto-kiting while leading the AI's ships around ...)

Offline tadrinth

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Re: Kiting
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2016, 07:36:38 PM »
If I use autokite distance globally, I try to set it so that my fighters won't autokite but my bombers will.