Fallen Spire feedback

[BobTheJanitor]

to be honest the only neutering that needs doing is gate raiding. The text says that the spawns come through the warp gates so killing some of those night affect it. most of the mobs come from outside the systems anyway

I'd be leery of that. Sure the fleet ships aren't a big deal, but guard post DPS can be pretty nasty if left unchecked. And some of the AI guardian ships can really ruin your day if you don't ruin theirs first. It just so happens that in the process of clearing these out, you end up killing all the fleet ships as well. And then if you don't want the now-alerted planet to fill up with a few hundred reinforcements you need to kill everything you can, or leave a guard force there. And now we're back to square one again. However if there is someone who has done a shard retrieval across several worlds and hasn't done any (or just minimal) flattening of the worlds ahead of time, I'd be curious to hear the results. (And what difficulty you're playing on)

[Sir t]

Well, technically i did, but it was a more a case of "Have Hive Golem, fly to planet with Golem and transports holding fleet and survey ship, see Shard, unload thingies, watch as thingies murder everything in sight while the shards slow pace allows Golem to reload, hop to next planet, release thingies, repeat till homeworld" which is pretty situational. And I was at difficulty 5.

[BobTheJanitor]

Well yeah, with a Golem along for the ride I think you could probably set them to group move back to the home planet and then just go make a sandwich. 

I kind of wish I'd turned on hard Golems and Spirecraft for my FS game. The AI's going to send exo-galactic strike forces anyway with or without them. Something to remember for next time...

[keith.lamothe]

I kind of wish I'd turned on hard Golems and Spirecraft for my FS game. The AI's going to send exo-galactic strike forces anyway with or without them. Something to remember for next time...

Well, it would have 3 separate exo-galactic counters going in that case.  I think with all that extra firepower you'd be able to fight it off, but it could potentially make finding "windows" of time for offensive operations very difficult.

[BobTheJanitor]

Aha! Let me amend that to say easy golems then. 

[chemical_art]

Well yeah, with a Golem along for the ride I think you could probably set them to group move back to the home planet and then just go make a sandwich. 

I kind of wish I'd turned on hard Golems and Spirecraft for my FS game. The AI's going to send exo-galactic strike forces anyway with or without them. Something to remember for next time...

Depends on the difficulty, like everything else. For my second shard retrieval on 8.3 I got hit with tech IV and V units. Even the mighty DPS of the armored golem simply couldn't churn out enough damage to stop the waves. In desperation, I starting lobbing EMP warheads to at least stun the enemies, but generally I had to burn one every 20 seconds to stop the next wave of incoming enemies. As a whole, it was a frustrating ideal because I simply could not find ways to deal with the waves. I felt a rare time in AI war were I felt there was "no other option". Choices that I felt "denied" included:

Give the shard extra speed (logistical station)
Give the shard extra HP (through group moved shield generators)
Repair the shard during lulls in waves
Any other way of using the shard other then a slow crawl to the homeworld


The shard repairs would really, REALLY make a difference for me at least. If halfway during a chase I could have the shard crawl under the temporary protection of multiple shields so I could repair it I feel there would at least be a fighting chance.


Also, remember that if you enable multiple scripted event wave options you really, REALLY, have to manage your economy well. Golems and Spirecraft give you more options, but they give you no more resources or energy to be able to use them. Plus those extra exo groups really hurt and tie up your forces, further killing your economy. I had to end my last game because I had all three at once and could not use all my options but I was being hit as if I was able to.

[TechSY730]

Well yeah, with a Golem along for the ride I think you could probably set them to group move back to the home planet and then just go make a sandwich. 

I kind of wish I'd turned on hard Golems and Spirecraft for my FS game. The AI's going to send exo-galactic strike forces anyway with or without them. Something to remember for next time...

Depends on the difficulty, like everything else. For my second shard retrieval on 8.3 I got hit with tech IV and V units. Even the mighty DPS of the armored golem simply couldn't churn out enough damage to stop the waves. In desperation, I starting lobbing EMP warheads to at least stun the enemies, but generally I had to burn one every 20 seconds to stop the next wave of incoming enemies. As a whole, it was a frustrating ideal because I simply could not find ways to deal with the waves. I felt a rare time in AI war were I felt there was "no other option". Choices that I felt "denied" included:

Give the shard extra speed (logistical station)
Give the shard extra HP (through group moved shield generators)
Repair the shard during lulls in waves
Any other way of using the shard other then a slow crawl to the homeworld


The shard repairs would really, REALLY make a difference for me at least. If halfway during a chase I could have the shard crawl under the temporary protection of multiple shields so I could repair it I feel there would at least be a fighting chance.


Also, remember that if you enable multiple scripted event wave options you really, REALLY, have to manage your economy well. Golems and Spirecraft give you more options, but they give you no more resources or energy to be able to use them. Plus those extra exo groups really hurt and tie up your forces, further killing your economy. I had to end my last game because I had all three at once and could not use all my options but I was being hit as if I was able to.

Although your points are valid and suggestions good, I don't think you should complain about not having "a fighting chance" when playing 8.3 or above. 8.3 and up is when the AI starts cheating, and is supposed to be overall "not fair".

[keith.lamothe]

8.3 is brutal.  I'm surprised you survived FS on 8.3 at all

[chemical_art]

Well yeah, with a Golem along for the ride I think you could probably set them to group move back to the home planet and then just go make a sandwich. 

I kind of wish I'd turned on hard Golems and Spirecraft for my FS game. The AI's going to send exo-galactic strike forces anyway with or without them. Something to remember for next time...

Depends on the difficulty, like everything else. For my second shard retrieval on 8.3 I got hit with tech IV and V units. Even the mighty DPS of the armored golem simply couldn't churn out enough damage to stop the waves. In desperation, I starting lobbing EMP warheads to at least stun the enemies, but generally I had to burn one every 20 seconds to stop the next wave of incoming enemies. As a whole, it was a frustrating ideal because I simply could not find ways to deal with the waves. I felt a rare time in AI war were I felt there was "no other option". Choices that I felt "denied" included:

Give the shard extra speed (logistical station)
Give the shard extra HP (through group moved shield generators)
Repair the shard during lulls in waves
Any other way of using the shard other then a slow crawl to the homeworld


The shard repairs would really, REALLY make a difference for me at least. If halfway during a chase I could have the shard crawl under the temporary protection of multiple shields so I could repair it I feel there would at least be a fighting chance.


Also, remember that if you enable multiple scripted event wave options you really, REALLY, have to manage your economy well. Golems and Spirecraft give you more options, but they give you no more resources or energy to be able to use them. Plus those extra exo groups really hurt and tie up your forces, further killing your economy. I had to end my last game because I had all three at once and could not use all my options but I was being hit as if I was able to.

Although your points are valid and suggestions good, I don't think you should complain about not having "a fighting chance" when playing 8.3 or above. 8.3 and up is when the AI starts cheating, and is supposed to be overall "not fair".

I should have added more sarcasm, I am happy I found a way to do it at all! I simply meant I felt narrowed to "one tactic" rather then the current AI war philosophy of "multiple choices, even if they are all hard ones"

[keith.lamothe]

Well you did have a few choices: emp spam, lightning warhead spam, or nuke spam

And theoretically some really mad layered-ffs-plus-engies micro could get you through quite a bit.

[chemical_art]

Well you did have a few choices: emp spam, lightning warhead spam, or nuke spam

And theoretically some really mad layered-ffs-plus-engies micro could get you through quite a bit.

oh yeah! I did use some cloaked (via starships) lightning warheads to eat at immoblized ships, so I guess I did have multiple options and I used multiple. I actually had to basically devote my whole economy to churning out those warheads; 50 AIP later the shard was home despite being 4 jumps away.

I considered that mad ffs engie combo, but being unable to "group move" with those shields seemed to make the endeavor just a little to microish, even for me.

Never did consider those nukes though. hahaha that is always an option, but they don't work against the MK V ships unlike the EMPs and lightning warheads.

[TechSY730]

oh yeah! I did use some cloaked (via starships) lightning warheads to eat at immoblized ships, so I guess I did have multiple options and I used multiple. I actually had to basically devote my whole economy to churning out those warheads; 50 AIP later the shard was home despite being 4 jumps away.

Wait, warheads are not immune to super-cloak boosting?
*files this away in my list of nifty cheap tactics*

[chemical_art]

Wait, warheads are not immune to super-cloak boosting?
*files this away in my list of nifty cheap tactics*

It was under one of those "Tips of the day", but yep. Handy if you need to guarantee your lightning warhead hits its target, you want to use any warheads for deep striking, or for ensuring your own warheads don't blow on your own worlds. Assuming you clear tach guardians ahead of time, you can use 6 MK II nukes + cloaking to neutralize most MK IV buildings of a whole world for a fraction of the cost of a nuke.

Warheads are one of the few, few things only humans can use. I sometimes think more players should use the EMP ones especially during those "big battles" on an AI world. It really acts as a game changer.

EDIT: I thoroughly enjoy how they are "advanced player" weapons as well. The warning is necessary so you don't spam them for MK I worlds, but once I figured out how the cost / benefits work out I find myself using them at a rate of one per hour of game time.

[Varone]

At the moment i'm playing my first FS campaign and have just retrieved the 3rd shard so i'm making my second hub. I feel that the shard moves too slowly, it seems to take ages to get back to the homeworld. Perhaps some sort of mechanism so that every hop closer to your homeworld doubles the base speed of the shard. Therefore it is still slow moving far away so the initial challenge is still there but when it's almost home it zips along. I don't mind retrieving them it's just the speed after the initial threat has gone away.

[Red Spot]

Personally I think the speed of the shard is ok, it makes it "painfully" slow, and I think that is exactly how it should be

I do however find the retrieval of 5 shards a bit too much, specially when you try to expand in a certain direction and you end up being forced moving 20+ planets into AI terf(from your homeplanet).
I would rather see the no. of jumps for each shard get increased by 1 jump, only 3 shards need to be retrieved, but after that the AI attacks pick up in strenght .. drasticly .. and I really mean the constant brutally brutal attacks. After which you can build a capitol, but the endgame stuff only triggers with say 3 capitols.

I think that, specially at a bit higher AIP, the last 2 shards are bit more of a grind to the FS campaign, which doesnt have to be imo.

For the rest I am really enjoying it though.
(For me you may scale up the attacks a bit, but that is just my flavour