Author Topic: Engineers and effectiveness  (Read 1195 times)

Offline undefind

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Engineers and effectiveness
« on: October 16, 2015, 07:30:04 AM »
i am concerned with the efficiency of engineers. specifically, i am worried i am wasting metal/s by either not unlocking the next mk or i am using too many at once.

mk1 engineers have a repair rate of 2. mk2 engineers have a repair rate of 9. the description of a mk2 states that it is identical to the mk1 with a faster repair rate. additionally, the wiki says "...up to three engineers can be assigned to each constructor (more can be assigned, but beyond three have a severely reduced efficiency)."

1. with the difference in repair rate, does this only affect how fast it uses resources to repair, or does it use less resources with a higher rate of repair?

2. is it more economical to upgrade to mk2s? (see question 3).

3. i see some people prefer to unlock mk2s right from the start. what is the advantage of that? (see question 2). maybe people just expand so fast that they need the higher cap?

concerning the efficiency of engineers when using more than 3 on a constructor:

4. is metal lost per/s when using more than 3 or does the repair rate go down without loss of metal? does this apply to repairing as well?

thank you for being patient as i try to understand the finer points of the game. i find efficiency is important at higher levels and i am determined to beat it.
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Offline Captain Jack

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Re: Engineers and effectiveness
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2015, 12:43:13 PM »
Yes, Mk II engineers are a vastly better value proposition than Mk Is. Just look at the costs: Mk IIs are cheaper and build faster (240/s vs. 250/s). They also have extra health and 2 construction speed as opposed to 1.

The difference in repair rate is purely a construction speed thing. The same number of materials will be used in a shorter amount of time.

The advantage of having Mk 2s unlocked at the start of the game is the advantage of having full caps of every ship type in the two minutes of the game.

If you lose metal, I don't believe it's more than a rounding error's worth. It comes down to marginal utility. You COULD tell thirty engineers to work on the Starship Constructor and get the construction time of a ship down to minutes, or you could build a second or third constructor, split the engineers among them, and get multiple ships out in the same amount of time.

Offline Toranth

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Re: Engineers and effectiveness
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2015, 04:25:41 PM »
Chris posted a long explanation of how engineers work a number of years ago, but I can't manage to find it in the forums or on the wiki.

Ok, to add a little more detail to what Watashiwa already said:

Remember that each unit has a 'rate' listed on its stat card, next to the Metal cost.  The Mk I Missile Frigate, for example, costs 1200 Metal, and builds at a rate of 120 M/s.

Basically, the normal Dock has a construction speed of 1.  This means that each second, the unit currently under construction expends (1 x rate) Metal, and gets that much close to completion.  For a Missile frigate, this is (1 x 120) = 120 Metal per second.  A the base construction rate, this Mk I Missile Frigate takes exactly 10 seconds to finish.
When an Engineer assists, it adds its construction rate to that of the base Dock unit.  So with a Mk I Engineer assisting, we have (2 x rate) Metal expended per second.  The Mk I Missile Frigate is now being built at 240 M/s, and will complete in 5 seconds.
A Mk II Engineer adds +2 construction speed, resulting in a rate of 3.  For the Mk I Missile Frigate, this is 360 M/s, and 3.333 seconds build time.

The overall cost always stays the same, only the rate of expenditure changes.
Repair works the same, but there are inherent discounts in repairing (1/4?) so that the Metal expenditure is less overall when compared to constructing a new unit.

A quick check with 20 Mk II engineers building an expensive starship took exactly as long as the base math (1+assisting_engineer_construction_rate) * metal_cost_rate said it should take.  So, there is no efficiency fall-off, as in, it does not cost more Metal or reduce the help each extra Engineer adds.  However, the first Engineer Mk I halves the construction time, while the 9th engineer only shaves another 10% or so off the time.  If your engineers have other tasks, it may be better overall to let them scatter.

Technical note:  There is no benefit to be had by adding more construction units, beyond the additional base +1 construction rate they possess.  1 Dock + 9 Mk I Engineers = 2 Docks + 8 Mk I Engineers = 5 Docks + 5 Engineers = 10 Docks + 0 Engineers.

Personally, I just automate the Engineers.  Only when I need to mess up their priorities do I assign manual jobs.


PS:  A while back, there was a bug where repair costs were deducted once per tick, no matter the repair rate was - this made it very important to repair Golems with high-mark engineers.  But that bug was fixed a while ago.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Engineers and effectiveness
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2015, 05:01:33 PM »
PS:  A while back, there was a bug where repair costs were deducted once per tick, no matter the repair rate was - this made it very important to repair Golems with high-mark engineers.  But that bug was fixed a while ago.

<..<
That may also be my fault, I'm not sure.
Either way I was sad when that went away.