Arcen Games

Games => AI War Classic => Topic started by: Gott365 on January 03, 2017, 10:46:59 AM

Title: Armor question finally answered and fps impact
Post by: Gott365 on January 03, 2017, 10:46:59 AM
Hi fellow commanders,

I´m playing AIW since a couple of hours now, and after six or so losses I´m now trying to get some info on how things work here in the forum.

I have found some things that I´d appreciate to be answered:

the exodian blade does damage fps-wise, does the refresh rate of the "death ray" increase with more fps?
that would be quite hilarious  :P

Second: I know the formula for the calculation of damage is 1000/(1000+armor-armor pen) but why did you cap that at 1/5 at maximum?
I mean, some things are supposed to be reeeeeally strong and durable, e.g the armoured golem or the hardened force fields, but I watched them going down in one or two salvos of a 1000-ship mk 3 ai carrier (could have been more than the single one, they tend to stack upon each other. I presume, they really like each other :P ). same goes for the super fortress and some other things, that explode way too fast.
I also don´t quite get the use of 2 armor on a single fighter, so it needs to take 3 more damage to be destroyed...
So why don´t alter the formula to something like 100/(100+armor) with a cap of, let´s say, 10 dmg per shot? and maybe also add "real penetration", so that armor-armor pen can become less than zero.

I know this would probably be a major balance issue, and you devs are kind of distracted with something else at the moment ;) but for future releases, this could be at least considered, or what do you think?

what I´m trying to say is: PLEASE NERF THOSE CARRIERS!!!!111!ELEVEN!!1!!!

Another thing I forgot about, does AIW support multi threading? And if not, does AIW 2 in the future?

With kind regards and best wishes for 2017 :)
Title: Re: Armor question finally answered and fps impact
Post by: GiftGruen on January 03, 2017, 02:46:56 PM
Depending on how old the post with the armor formula is, this one might be horribly out of date. All damage, hull strength, armor and similar things were divided by 100 in a major update some year or so ago. So, back then, you would have in a fighter vs. fighter situation: dmg*1000/(1000+350-0), which is 74% of the original damage.

Maybe now the formula is 10/(10+armor-penetration)?
Title: Re: Armor question finally answered and fps impact
Post by: Toranth on January 03, 2017, 05:15:40 PM
AFAIK, the Exodian Blade damage does not change based on FPS.  Of course, it's insane enough that it doesn't really need to...

The minimum anti-armor damage is because without it, if you didn't have a dedicated anti-armor platform when something like an AI Armored Golem showed up, you lose.  That's not fun, so there's a minimum damage level so that it is *possible*, but not easy, to deal with it.

AI Carriers are dangerous, yes.  Sometimes, moreso than the 1000 ships contained inside them!  However, they have the Ultra-Heavy hull type, so standard units like the Laser or Needler turret get major damage multiplier against them.  In the worst case, a Warhead can provide significant help, at the cost of a permanent AIP increase.

Although, if you are facing Mk III AI Carriers, it sounds like you may be having some other difficulties.  What game options are you playing with, what is the AIP, and how many systems do you have?  Posting a screenshot or two (or attaching a saved game) will likely get a lot of advice.  Possibly more than you actually want  :P
Title: Re: Armor question finally answered and fps impact
Post by: Gott365 on January 04, 2017, 10:06:56 AM
For GiftGruen: I looked the formula up in the wiki, but that one is pretty old, and I don´t think it´s still correct, and I read some other posts ( from 2012-2013 I believe) where there are different formulas (the one I wrote, too).

For Toranth: I don´t think I´d have a problem with armored golems showing up, because afaic they show up in later stages of the game, if ever, and you have enough things which completely ignore armor by then.

For the carriers.... Well I figured facing the AI head on, when it is more powerful than you, is probably a bad idea, but I did anyways :D I think this could be some kind of challenge: Try to win this!

Warning though, there are quite a *lot* of ships, this is not for weak machines, and even mine struggles (although I think it´s rather the game ;) )

Have fun trying to defend  :P
Title: Re: Armor question finally answered and fps impact
Post by: Nodor on January 04, 2017, 12:39:31 PM
AI War is a game where taking planets has a "Cost" in terms of AI progress. 

You get benefits of course, knowledge, resources etc. 

The only way the benefit for taking all of the planets exceeds the cost in terms of AI progress is when you are playing the Fallen Spire campaign and can build out a massive Spire fleet.

That's not to say that 700+ AIP isn't manageable, it is... but you need to balance the benefits (and have a defensive turret system & fleet) to deal with the responses.
Title: Re: Armor question finally answered and fps impact
Post by: Toranth on January 04, 2017, 09:32:29 PM
Yeah, 892 AIP is not where you want to be, even with -200% handicap on the AI, especially since it looks like you have almost everything enabled...

Fortunately for you, it isn't impossible.  If you have a save about 10 minutes earlier, it won't even be difficult.
Start by reading Kahuna's guide on building defenses ('s-guide-to-ai-war-find-your-inner-super-cat!/).  What you have isn't terrible, but it isn't as good as it could be - especially look at how tractors, Grav turrets, and minefields can be used.
Next, concentrate on fully enhancing and re-arranging your defenses on Fimurder, Quipsa, and Joshu.  Build a warhead on each system (Joshu will probably want a Mk II or higher, the others should eb fine with a Mk I).  Replace the Command Station in each system with a Mk III Military Station if it doesn't already have one.
If you have time, build more warheads in Joshu and Quipsa.
Give up on Usor; it's toast.
With that, I was able to survive the CPA and threat.

Other advice:
Go back through your old systems, and remove all the unneeded defenses.  There's no reason for Chrki, Aiduokil, or Nuur to have lots of turrets.  Delete them, and use the energy elsewhere.  For that matter, delete most of your matter converters - they drain your economy, which can be better used on the frontlines.

Make Spirecraft.  You have Spirecraft Hard enabled, but haven't built anything yet.  That's quite a waste.  There's some wonderful stuff available to you, like Martyrs!  Basically, AIP-free warheads.  Or Spire Transports, aka Cheese Machines.

Scout.  Scout a lot.  Find all the Data Centers, CoProcessors, and Civilian Leaders out there.  The DCs and CPs can give you over 200 AIP reduction right now.  The Civilian Leaders, well, find a few more you can capture, then kill the rest.  Yes, it may seem heartless, but with that and some patience, you can drive the AIP down to 200-250, where you'll be more than strong enough to proceed.
Also, scout to find more Fabricators.  Then hack them.  You have a LOT of Hacking Points left.  You can also use them to Knowledge raid (get K from AI systems) or Sabotage (such as in Marooryaq, with the Nuclear Eye).
Finally, combining the two, there's also the SuperTerminal, which can drive the AIP down another 100-150 points, if you don't want to wait on the Leaders to do it for you.

You have Fallen Spire enabled, and you're playing in a very Fallen Spire "In Your Face, AI!" manner, but you haven't actually started the Fallen Spire questline.  This means you're missing out on all the wonderful goodies you could have.  Try pursuing that for a while, with your strong defenses keeping you somewhat safe.

It would be a long, slow fight, but especially with the Fallen Spire support, you can do it.
However - I would recommend stopping this game, and restarting a new one.  Play with fewer options - No Showdown, Exodian Blade, or Champions; and no Hard Golem/Spirecraft stuff.  You can do the Fallen Spire, although I suggest holding that off till you already have a win or two under your belt, since it is a very different playstyle.  Once you're more familiar with the game, come back to this game, or try the "everything!" game again.

Good luck!

Title: Re: Armor question finally answered and fps impact
Post by: Gott365 on January 05, 2017, 07:11:40 AM
Ty for your advice! Definitely gonna read the guide.

For the game itself: I made quite a few mistakes I know now, and I´ll try this one surely in the future, but I have already started a new one, where RNG didn´t completely shit on me: Cursed and Botnet Golem 5-6 Hops from Home, Exodian Blade 11 Hops. That´s a bit better of a start, I think. I also had one Super Terminal right after I got the Botnet Golem, so now I have quite a defensive fleet :P

Then I tried hacking an ARS. I realised I had only 63 Hacking Points left ( didn´t know the Super Terminal uses those) and the response level was at 453: "Extreme". That was quite a cost, but I have quite some defenses built up and I´m going to do the Fallen Spire now.

Anyway, learning from my mistakes, I use those Spirecraft now, and scouts, too :)
Title: Re: Armor question finally answered and fps impact
Post by: bladeravinger on January 09, 2017, 07:09:12 AM
the exodian blade does damage fps-wise, does the refresh rate of the "death ray" increase with more fps?
that would be quite hilarious  :P

why no like button on this forum, that other topic is the balls. anyway what where you saying lads?