Author Topic: Which special units compliment cruisers?  (Read 2829 times)

Offline Alex2290

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Which special units compliment cruisers?
« on: November 09, 2009, 02:14:42 PM »
I tend to clump all of my ships together and move as one big group. I like to kill the ai units before they have a chance to get near to do serious damage, and if they do make it close enough to fire my close-range units will take them out fairly quickly. Last round the units that did the most damage for me are laser gatlings, cruisers, and starships(all but light(low dmg), leech(n/a), dreadnaught(n/a)). Bulletproof fighters and bombers were just a waste of money and had a horrible kill-to-death percentage.

I was thinking that instead of laser gatlings that I should start with spiders or snipers. Would this be a good plan?


Also.. Are parasites and leech starships worth it? Do they really make enough kills to make the effort worthwhile?


Thanks

P.S. I was playing on level 6 difficulty for this. I am going to try 7 tonight, or maybe stick to 6 and try other variations for strategy.

Offline x4000

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2009, 02:17:46 PM »
I imagine that snipers would be a poor complement to cruisers if you are group-moving them around, but spiders would do well.  If you omit bombers from your ball of death, though, expect to mysteriously start seeing your cruisers having shorter lifespans -- that's because the enemy fighters will get in there and take them out.

Grouping a starship of some sort, or munitions boosters, with your cruisers would also be a good thing.  But spiders and cruisers are pretty killer together in general, in my experience.

There is a lot of love for parasites on these forums, it's the favorite ship of many.  But I'll let them tell you about their feelings on it. :)
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Offline Kjara

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2009, 02:43:09 PM »
Both MLRS and Shield Bearers do reasonably well as cruiser support (both are slowish units with decent range that kill fighters).

Autocannon mini-pods are also decent anti-fighters with less range but the speed to get around.

If you want a unit that can also take down turrets well, armor's don't do that poorly against fighters either.

Offline Alex2290

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2009, 03:22:39 PM »
Thanks guys. I'll keep that in mind and try a few things tonight. =)


Honestly, I've had no problem on 6 difficulty with cruisers being killed. I lost a few here and there but nothing major. The kills for say a mk2 cruiser is 1000 and deaths maybe 40 as opposed to bulletproof fighter (kills 20 deaths 300)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 03:54:56 PM by Alex2290 »

Offline x4000

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2009, 03:46:22 PM »
Honestly, I've had no problem on 6 difficulty with cruisers being killed. I lost a few here and there but nothing major. The kills for say a mk2 cruiser is 100 and deaths maybe 40 as opposed to bulletproof fighter (kills 20 deaths 300)

Yeah, but remember that these are not isolated systems.  Those smaller, cheaper ships are absorbing gunfire and distracting the enemy even if they don't make a huge number of kills.  They may also damage enemies down to a point that cruiser blasts then finish off the enemy with one hit, etc.  So it's hard to say how many "assists" the bulletproof fighters have, and/or how much help they provided by simply drawing the fire and providing the cruisers with an opportunity to get off a shot and kill the enemy before even taking any damage themselves.  That's the main thing to bear in mind, especially if you start seeing the performance of your cruisers trending down or up as you experiment with your ship mix -- it's a rather complex ecosystem, and removing a "useless" part of your mix might have unintended side effects. 

Or it might not, depending -- but that's the thing to watch out for, anyway, and keep an eye on.
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Offline Alex2290

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2009, 03:57:58 PM »
Yeah, but remember that these are not isolated systems.  Those smaller, cheaper ships are absorbing gunfire and distracting the enemy even if they don't make a huge number of kills.  They may also damage enemies down to a point that cruiser blasts then finish off the enemy with one hit, etc.  So it's hard to say how many "assists" the bulletproof fighters have, and/or how much help they provided by simply drawing the fire and providing the cruisers with an opportunity to get off a shot and kill the enemy before even taking any damage themselves.  That's the main thing to bear in mind, especially if you start seeing the performance of your cruisers trending down or up as you experiment with your ship mix -- it's a rather complex ecosystem, and removing a "useless" part of your mix might have unintended side effects. 

Or it might not, depending -- but that's the thing to watch out for, anyway, and keep an eye on.

Meant 1000 in my last post. ;D (not 100)

And eventually I stopped building bulletproofs and only built a few mk2 bombers at a time. Regular fighters had an almost even K/D ratio so I built them up anyway. But yeah, I'll keep that in mind. I'll have to do some testing...! Loads new ideas now

Offline x4000

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2009, 04:06:40 PM »
Sounds good!
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Offline laxrulz777

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2009, 04:34:59 PM »
I would suggest Teleport Stations. Bind them all to a separate group and port them around the screen attacking fighters that become isolated (which they do a lot).

Offline Haagenti II

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2009, 05:06:53 PM »
There is a lot of love for parasites on these forums, it's the favorite ship of many.  But I'll let them tell you about their feelings on it. :)

I used to be a parasite lover, but that was in the time you could use parasites to steal more ships than your ship cap. That allowed you to build 1000 III Cruiser fleets, so they were nerfed.

Nowadays, I find them rather weak and very expensive in energy. Many of the ships they steal are killed immediately by their former AI buddies.  And their range is quite short: so you have to let the enemy come near you without being killed by your other ships.

The only place parasites really shine is if you fight against the AI that starts with all cloaking ships, as cloaked ships:
  • only decloak when they are very close, so they are not killed before reaching you
  • immediately recloak when killed, so they are not killed by their ex-buddies
so you can amass vast hordes of cloaked AI ships. If the other AI then has interesting specials, you can use your stolen Etherjets to drag them to your parasites and steal those as well.
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Offline laxrulz777

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2009, 05:52:06 PM »
Ahhhh... that's how I ended up with a bazillion autocannons after a raid!

I assume parasites also take over turrets like the Leech Starship... nothing like converting your opponents Lightning Turrets to your own agenda!

Offline RCIX

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 06:36:40 PM »
The Leech starship is great if only because you need to unlock the Raid starship first, which is simply awesome!
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Offline Spikey00

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 07:28:06 PM »
Hilariously, I just use Cruisers alone or with higher tier supportive Starships--I always say this, but have them retreat to maximize kiting damage.  I rarely use them to attack move, because they tend to wander off, and it is an extremely rare occasion that I allow them in Free Defender Mode on offense.  Since multipliers stack (at least I saw in the base game), you can have incredibly boosted Cruisers (even 2X is enough). 

If I have any Teleport specialties, I will of course use them to assist them or defend against waves (which is by far extremely helpful).

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Offline Volatar

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 07:33:32 PM »
I will agree on the sentiment that leech starships are awesome.

I love knowledge raiding an AI world with leeches and raids, as they are WAY effective at it, and once I retreat, I leave behind a bunch of turrets that get a bunch of kills before they are killed, making the AI need to reinforce a planet I don't want anyways   ;D

Offline Spikey00

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2009, 02:15:55 PM »
Which is ironic, right?

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Offline Grok

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Re: Which special units compliment cruisers?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2009, 06:51:47 PM »
Leech Starships are, to me, essential. They pay for themselves shortly. I cannot imagine a build that is more efficient without them. But then again, I'm playing a 7.3 AI and I cannot build T3 units, though I do have tons of IV and III units from fighting my way through AI systems.

I too blob when Traversing a hostile system, but it is always a good call to go after bunched up single unit types with the unit they are weak against. Fighters and bombers will always make it back to the main group. Also if you attack a fortified position, send your fighters in first to cover the tractor beams, then send your bombers.

Remember, you can set your cruisers and starships in one group, then orbit tightly with faster units in their range craft to increase DPS. Attack move (alt+click) is your friend. One mobile repair ship in the back makes it possible to ALT attack with minimal losses, because the cruisers take so long to get there, and you end up with a stream of fighters/bombers/other constantly catching up to them. Tugs, if not tractor beamed, remove ships from tractor beam! More than one MRS is useless in my recent experience.

Let raid starships and Leeches fly ahead of the fleet on fortified positions. They take out the shields so fast it's worth it.