Author Topic: When to use Logistical command stations?  (Read 5126 times)

Offline Kahuna

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2015, 07:29:54 AM »
I feel the 8 speed is too low anyway.
It's needed to stop AI Carriers. Stopping CPAs (which include a butt load of carriers) has become a contest of "how much heavy countering stuff do you have". A full Carrier is almost as scary as a Mark II hunter killer. Or Mark I H/K at least. If player's gravitational stuff was nerfed Carriers should have their health reduced and hull changed to scout. Fortresses' damage penalty vs scout hull should be removed in that case. (This has been discussed before)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 07:31:59 AM by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
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Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2015, 07:32:05 AM »
... I thought attacking Carriers attacked their contents, not the Carrier itself?

That's the way things seemed to work yesterday, at least.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2015, 07:57:38 AM »
Carrier's health=the health of all the ships inside combined. And with heavy hull. So yes.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline kasnavada

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2015, 10:16:54 AM »
I feel the 8 speed is too low anyway.
It's needed to stop AI Carriers. Stopping CPAs (which include a butt load of carriers) has become a contest of "how much heavy countering stuff do you have". A full Carrier is almost as scary as a Mark II hunter killer. Or Mark I H/K at least. If player's gravitational stuff was nerfed Carriers should have their health reduced and hull changed to scout. Fortresses' damage penalty vs scout hull should be removed in that case. (This has been discussed before)

Ok, let's be honest here =), what I really feel is that the gravi turrets is cheesy, especially with the lastest years of "let's add radar dampening to a lot of stuff". It enables the player to shoot way larger things in defence than what is possible when attacking. The player should have enough of an advantage with simply mines, turrets, tractors, fortress and command stations.... but no, let's add also some "does not matter what the speed of opponent is" mechanic while shooting it where it can't attack back. So it makes for stupidly larger in my opinion. If it was only me, the speed reduction would (at best) be percentage based and ships would have a resistance to speed reduction effects, or completely removed. That's why I was proposing both gravi and logistical stack with percentages.

Sadly, a lot of things have been balanced around what I think of a really poorly choosen game mechanic. So it's here to stay if only for the amount of work which would be needed to balance the game again. I do believe the game would be better after those changes... but that's kind of not the point of this thread, and I don't have much to add about this. Most seem to like it the other way. Oh, and I do have the same opinion about radar dampening too - should be at best percentage based and at worst removed.


Back to logistics, basically around since the 4.0 I've seen and read that they were mostly useless, and... they still are. Maybe it's time they went away. I did not play the game much recently and lost the recent changes but... there is a "need" for what... about 12 stations max in a low AIP game anyway ? 6 military 3 + 5 warp jammer + home station is 12. Even if it was made a better choice, it would kick something else from being at the top. It's a never ending quest. To compensate, I'd try to convince Keith & Chris of the need to hack AI stations to get more choices of human military command stations.

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2015, 12:00:11 PM »
Looking at my suggested addition types:
  • I would use two build-accelerator CS and the foldout -- the foldout in my home system where I build all my normal ships, one in my backfield Spire Shipyard with 40 engineers next to it, and one wherever I'm building the current city.
  • I would use several Stargate CS -- a foldout in my home system where I build my stuff, one adjacent to my main Spire Shipyard (same system if build-accelerator isn't added), others in somewhat-secure places scattered across my empire where I want to deploy.
  • I would use several Stealth CS in places outside my choke, so they wouldn't need quite as much babysitting to avoid the annoyance of rebuilding.
  • I already use Warp Jammer CS (Stealth 3 in my suggestions) to stage my assaults on homeworlds, although I'm not sure how important that actually is.

Offline Red.Queen

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2015, 09:13:07 PM »
I'd like to remind about my idea about the warp gate command station. Mark III log stations could have a warp gate ability that would allow the player to load ships inside the command stations like transports. Then the player could use any Mark III to unload the ships to teleport them from log station A to log station B.

I would use the *hell* out of that, and gladly pay the K it took to unlock up the tree to get there.
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Offline gia

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2015, 11:45:48 PM »
If you ever play the spire campaign, do use log stations on your whipping boy, you'll be rebuilding a lot, and you will have a use of the planetary slow, you can get the military station bonuses from other stuff just as you can get the slow from gravity.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 11:51:34 PM by gia »

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2015, 01:26:46 AM »
In addition to no-hassle +100% attack boost (letting me leave auto-FRD on and not get my attack boosters fragged by exo-waves), Mil3 grants planetary tachyon coverage (saving me the hassle of protecting/microing tachyon sources) and is a halfway-respectable combatant on its own.

I guess maybe if I had to deal with FF-immune foes or teleporters or something I might consider the Log3.

Offline gia

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2015, 03:44:18 PM »
It does depend on the game/playstyle I guess, if you get annoyed by having to handle tachyon then sure keep mil3s, I tend to play with just eco3s so whatever :P

Id go with: is planet safe from attacks? eco, is firepower enough as it is, and dont really need extra tachyon? log, wont survive without mil? mil.

If you have enough power to defend without using mil3 you should get log3 so you can build your superweapons faster from that extra salvage, log makes the game faster not just movement.

Offline Toranth

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2015, 04:01:18 PM »
I guess maybe if I had to deal with FF-immune foes or teleporters or something I might consider the Log3.
AI Teleporting Carriers to match Spirecraft Jumpships?

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2015, 03:36:23 AM »
From what I understand from this thread, i should probably swap my MK 3 logistics on my front line bottlenecks for MK 3 millitary.... yes?
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Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2015, 11:46:09 AM »
From what I understand from this thread, i should probably swap my MK 3 logistics on my front line bottlenecks for MK 3 millitary.... yes?
Yeah, that sounds right.

That said, I did find use for CS-Log in my current game: rapid redeployment highways in empire-style setups. With them, I managed to just barely redeploy my Spire Fleet fast enough to save my third Spire Civilian Leader from a 40k-or-so strength threatball.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 09:59:38 AM by Radiant Phoenix »

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2015, 11:47:57 AM »
From what I understand from this thread, i should probably swap my MK 3 logistics on my front line bottlenecks for MK 3 millitary.... yes?
Yeah, that sounds right.

That said, I did find use for CS-Log in my current game: rapid redeployment highways in empire-style setups. With them, I managed to just barely redeploy my Spire Fleet fast enough to save my third Spire Civilian Leader from a 40k-or-so threatball.

Good to know. Now... time to get some K...
Just that guy who hides behind walls of death hoping that they stay up.

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2015, 12:12:16 PM »
CS-Log 1 is sufficient to make a highway, although you might want ZSTMs on top, which do cost K. (2 per planet on the highway had my FS ships moving at roughly 400-500 speed)

Offline Kahuna

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Re: When to use Logistical command stations?
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2015, 04:28:40 AM »
from a 40k-or-so threatball.
How many homeworlds do you have and which fleet size setting or whatever are you using?
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!