Author Topic: Reprisal a bit too mush  (Read 1668 times)

Offline Shelly

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Reprisal a bit too mush
« on: February 25, 2015, 06:23:34 PM »
Is it normal to have an level 5 12k reprisal wave at ~200 AI progress 7.max difficulty when ai waves are about 200?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2015, 06:29:55 PM »
What kind of losses were you having on AI planets?  Did it just jump from no warning to warning level 5, or was there some progression?
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Offline Shelly

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2015, 06:41:57 PM »
Recycled my starship fleet :D, but still the question stands is this normal?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2015, 06:43:59 PM »
If you wipe a full starship fleet all in a short period of time (not just in bits and pieces; then you'd see the warning level 1 and be able to adjust)

And on an AI planet (not a neutral/player planet, they don't get the reprisal scrap in those cases)

Then yea, a 12k-ship reprisal is certainly possible.  It's basically one of the few counterbalances to a starship-heavy force: an excellent weapon in the right hands, but use it wrongly and you can risk the game.

That said, a one-time influx of 12k ships can be handled readily via a heavy-to-extreme chokepoint and/or warheads :)  And if you don't vaporize it with the warheads, then the huuuuge pile of scrap from those 12k ships can really help pay for all that starship refleeting.
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Offline Shelly

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2015, 07:02:43 PM »
I  got a level 4 (6.6k) reprisal when killed eye on the homeworld and then tried to get out of dodge (mark 1-5 starship heavy attack force plus mark 4 bombers ). Due to disjointed territories they easily killed my defences (i redeploy almost a full stack of mk 2 shields and build every turrent to cap) and i lost the main strength of my fleet. And i easily get level 3 (2-3k) reprisals just by general fighting.

Offline Shelly

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2015, 07:07:54 PM »
Also what are execogalactic attack force. I play game on slow and plus i am a very slow player will execogalactic attack forces destroy me if i do nothing for a long time?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2015, 07:13:39 PM »
Interesting.  It does seem that player-side casualties vary a great deal from player to player.  And there's a fair bit of variance in AIP, so if one tends to keep that low-ish, and tends to have "high turnover" among the fleet, it can be pretty night-and-day.  Especially on the more normal difficulty levels like 7.

Hmm, will bear it in mind.  Certainly not the only time I've heard "jiminy crickets where on earth did all those ships come from?" regarding the reprisal mechanic.  It's just the answer to so many of the problems we used to have :)


On the exogalactic strikeforces those are all either related to minor factions, the "Exotic" AI types, or (iirc) what happens when you start killing AI core guard posts (the ones on the AI HWs).  They will get worse over time, but whether they'll destroy you depends on how slow is slow.  Generally speaking you can spend as much time as you like if you pause while thinking.  If the clock's always running you'll probably still not hit a wall due to sheer passage of time, but if we're talking 50 game hours it could get out of hand.  Typically the upper limit I see people actually playing is 30 hours before victory.  Average is more like 10, and the speedy folks can do it in 5 or less.
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Offline Shelly

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2015, 07:26:29 PM »
Slow as 20h and i am about ready to attack homeworlds slow still have some hack points to burn (aka steal knowledge). Playing complete vanilla. I guess i will postpone the attack get a bit more knowledge and clear out the way to the second ai homewotld. Most of my time is used to rebuild my fleet. Maybe i will use a very small force to kill things on ai homeworld (still it's a bit sad that i can't use my main fleet unless i know what ill win engagement).

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2015, 07:36:48 PM »
If you're seeing exos it may be that you've already "woken the bear" with whatever you were doing on that AI homeworld.  I hope you have a save from before that point :)  Normally you want to win fairly soon after you present a credible threat to the AI's actual hold on the galaxy (i.e. attack a homeworld in force; I forget the exact trigger).

But on diff 7 you can probably handle it for long enough to pull out a win.

Bear in mind you don't necessarily have to avoid heavy losses when fighting these last battles.  You just have to be aware that those losses have consequences.  Another thing to be aware of is that, in this game, you will probably never meet a consequence that can't be handled by a sufficient combination of warheads and audacity.  Except, of course, the consequences from using a ton of warheads.  That's why you want that last consequence to not fully hit until after you've already won :)
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Offline Cinth

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2015, 11:03:32 PM »
Typically the upper limit I see people actually playing is 30 hours before victory.  Average is more like 10, and the speedy folks can do it in 5 or less.
Saw this and chuckled. 

More to the point, if your defense is solid, time shouldn't kill you.  A good way to measure it is by the casualties you take during an AI attack.  If they are starting to get high, you should be getting concerned about the next few major attacks actually breaking through.  You'll want to press your attack before that happens.  :)
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2015, 09:41:34 AM »
Typically the upper limit I see people actually playing is 30 hours before victory.  Average is more like 10, and the speedy folks can do it in 5 or less.
Saw this and chuckled.
You and "typically" have nothing in common ;)
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Offline sk_2013

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2015, 10:40:45 PM »
Quote
Except, of course, the consequences from using a ton of warheads.

Ah yes, this one's the kicker. I once fell in love with EMP warheads once. That was an unhealthy relationship, I tell you.

Offline TheStratovarian

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 11:00:00 PM »
Okay, I'm about 9 hours into this fight. (120 words, positive hack balance, tier 3 ai progress) I have a core of words that have two very nice chokepoitns of grav/tractors, and a suite of tier 5 defenses around each. One world has the exodan blade defending it singlehandedly.

I'm not hacking, or near the ai homeworlds, but jammering up to nearby and still away from the core 4 types. All of a sudden. I'm hit with the warning 78k Teleporting station attack. and the tag teamer with the 30k bombers)

I'm not hacking anything, or fighting over anything, save getting ready to do an advance starship hack on a dyson sphere guard. (Not dropped anything yet.)

They hit the exodan blade at the chokepoint with 100 carriers. And when it fires, my pc dies the Dwarf fortress fps death.

Any ideas why it did this after loading a save when it had a good hour before (Nothings changed in my world setup, just balancing and setting up defenses after the last 5k ship wave nearly broke through, and keeping down the dark spire outpost spawns so they cant hit other worlds.) And it was the highest ship exo-galatic I had hit when I woke up the exodan.

Offline Cinth

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Re: Reprisal a bit too mush
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 12:42:44 AM »
The EB is an end game move... you are supposed to go about winning once you activate it.  BTW, the AI gets real agitated when you activate game enders (Exo Blade, Showdown Devices, Imperial Spire Fleet).  Expect the AI to hit you with increasingly heavier attacks (aka win now or die).
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.