Author Topic: Out of your tracks  (Read 4840 times)

Offline Kahuna

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2015, 12:18:45 AM »
You are not going to put any ship more then a scout there unless you are a genius and manage to arrange to destroy those tachyon posts without you or the AI losing any ships so you can cloak ships past the system. In other words you cannot let anything more then a scout or two die at any of those posts until you are ready.
Destroying Tachyon Guardians aren't ships? They're Guardians after all. Also you could destroy them with Assault Transports. Flagships have damage multiplier vs Medium so put a couple of Flagships and Plasma Siege Starships into the Assault Transport(s) and then go pop some Tachyon Guardians.
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Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2015, 05:34:18 AM »
My last game is done. It was a (barely) no MF, so no superweapon. A vanilla 7/7 game with the challenge to unlock almost only fleetships. It didn't pushed me too much out of my tracks, just forced me to play with fleetships because I'm a starship fanatic (yep, same as the AI), but I love fleetships too. I got viral shredders and vampire claws, among other fun things. I was surprised how a 7/7 game could be hard, without superweapons. It pushed my skill for sure, but maybe not to its edge, however, because I still don't use warheads. One day, maybe. On 8/8, maybe.

Anyway, you're not here to listen to my life. You're here to get !!fun!!
So my next game will be Mal's challenge. (Mal, do you really know what your pseudo mean in French? Do you realize how fun it is to me to write "Mal's challenge"?)
What did we say? Oh, yeah, Pumpkin's gona be nefarious!

Minor Factions:

Human Resistance Fighters: 10
Dark Spire: 10
Neinzul Roaming Enclaves: 10
Neinzul Preservation Wardens: 10


Other options:

Map Style: grid
Map size: 40
Starting Homeworld: random


Personal defaults:

Auto AIP: 1/30min
AI Modifiers: Schizophrenic
AI Plot: Counter Post (both)
AI Types: Random Moderate*
AI Difficulty: 7/7**


* ...minus the ones I already encountered, related to achievements.
** I know we've said 7.6/7.6, but my last 7/7 vanilla made me a bit shy about toying with diff immediately. :-[

So in that game the surviving humans are struggling with a vile force of corrupted Spire, while Neinzul are fighting each other in their intestinal election's turmoil to determine who'll decide the next color "à la mode" for enclaves' hull.
And I, in the middle of this, am the nefarious minor faction of the last human faithful to Terra's memory who want to seek revenge against the AI. I'll promise to vote for yellow enclaves for them to clean the galaxy from AI's guard posts, and I'll trade chocolate bar with humans and hopefully they'll patrol my modest territory and defend me from the elder evilness lurking around.

And of course I'll post the AAR on this forum. I've got some idea about my interpretation of the game. Red.Queen's AAR inspired me a lot. Does someone know about Sup'Com?


Well. Nobody else is interested in getting a challenge like that? Our strategical consultations are on sale -50% off! Just tell us where is your comfort zone and we'll put you out of your tracks!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 05:37:06 AM by Pumpkin »
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2015, 10:56:44 AM »
Well, well, well.

This stup... very interesting challenge is done; 8/8 vanilla is done; ... Oh, my AI War TODO list is empty...
*turn the piece of paper over*
Ah, yeah, 10/10... not for today... I said "outa my tracks", not "into the fire of hell".

So, I came with a silly idea that I partially tested... a sort of invasion mode.
No wave warning, cross planet waves and preemption, alongside with some aggressive AI types.
It's supposed to push ones' defense skills to its edge. I did no wave warning + CPwave (and no preemption) but got turtle AI types... The annoying is that waves tend to pile as threat and never attack, so the CPwave+preemption may just be no wave and preemption++. Sad.
If someone is interested in testing this out, taking the challenge or tweaking/improving it, I'll be happy to hear.

Also I think (need testing) a 10 intensity preemption is 100% reinforcements released as threat, that's why the common middle ground of 4 intensity (40% reinforcement?) is already a bit high. Maybe mantis that one day (intensity 10 would be 50% so intensity 4 would be 20%, which is already a big plot).

Anyway, back to silly challenge dispensing.

Red.Queen

You seems to like archipelago style of play.
Then I present you with one of my favorite plot-mix:
- No minor faction unless I allow it (I love being a benevolent dictator... Too much SBR-redshirt alter mind)
- Fallen Spire
- Tree/80 (or spoke or X if you prefer)
- White: Gravity Driller / Black: One-way doormaster
- optional Zenith Trader
- optional CPwave + no wave warning
- any other plot/modifier you want
- No auto AIP (Well, normal auto AIP if you really want it (but no more than 1/30 min... Well, let's say 5/30 because it's you (How can you negotiate without posting? (too much parenthesis in this list entry))))
- optional Spire Civilian Leaders if you complain about no/low auto AIP
- any AI difficulty
- secondary types if you really want to (or putting GravDriller/OW-DM secondary and picking random primary)

Goal of the challenge:
- introduce you to the awesome Fallen Spire campaign
- force you to go conquest

(My other favorite FS campaign is the Nomad Spire campaign... because Spire cities have a special rule on Nomad planets.)

Call it "space-time war" and add "Gallifrey" to your altplanetnames.txt ;)

Mal

After your suspended Xenofilth and Time Bomb games, I don't know what you were doing... Big Tangled Map (should be a map style name) was supposed to be an interesting challenge to you. I don't know what you're up to. Please gives signs of life. ;)

Pumpkin

Here!

Well, the recent double Teuthida enthralled me into giving the brutal type a try. However, I don't know how to put it in a thematic flavor. Maybe using my Thematic Zenith LobbyScript, however I already tried one (the golem/hard + golemite is !!fun!!). It has been some games I played vanilla/no-superweapon; maybe it's time to get back to it (Oh, and I'll play starfleet, like in the good ol' days). But then the brutal GP wouldn't be that challenging... I dunno. You tell me.
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Offline Mal

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2015, 11:40:28 PM »
Quote
After your suspended Xenofilth and Time Bomb games, I don't know what you were doing... Big Tangled Map (should be a map style name) was supposed to be an interesting challenge to you. I don't know what you're up to. Please gives signs of life. ;)

As I said back in that thread the Vengeful AI was not working, reported it as a mantis, waiting for fix.

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2015, 04:57:46 AM »
Quote
After your suspended Xenofilth and Time Bomb games, I don't know what you were doing... Big Tangled Map (should be a map style name) was supposed to be an interesting challenge to you. I don't know what you're up to. Please gives signs of life. ;)

As I said back in that thread the Vengeful AI was not working, reported it as a mantis, waiting for fix.
I'm aware of that part, but I expected you to go on a new campaign in the meantime. You mean you're not playing AI War at all? I can't believe it!
 :P
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Offline Red.Queen

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2015, 05:28:49 PM »
Heya Pumpkin,

I'm going to hold off on taking that challenge in its exact form for now, I'm currently focused on trying to flush out the ceiling on what difficulty I can handle before I start checking out the alternate campaigns. It's the same reason I'm stepping through the minor factions and plots a few at a time, and at moderate settings.  Well, except for auto-AIP but you know the story behind that one already.  ;)

However... I've been thinking about what settings I want to try next on either 8.6 or 9 and I *was* thinking about the CPA waves and no wave warning plots...  So I just might have to consider your challenge a second vote to try those two plots next.  :)

And your vote for seeing me go on a "crush my enemies, drive them before me, and hear the lamentations of their women" conquest spree is... duly noted.  >D  I might be able to make that work for the next chapter of Aggressive Stupidity.  Let me think about it a bit more, I'm not going to start my next game until I finish posting AS2 at any rate (won't be long, I'm getting down to the end) -- still recharging my AI War batteries.

Buuut... I was thinking about YOUR thoughts on what to play next, and I think I have a themed challenge for you8)  (Wow this took a while to write out, hehe.)


---[Mission: Impossible]---

Agent Pumpkin, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to infiltrate a high-security galaxy that the AI has concentrated some of their best science facilities in, capture as much research and development as possible, and then blow up their command centers to sabotage their development efforts to buy the Resistance more time.

The enemy has heavily defended this sector due to its great value to the war effort, so this will be no easy task.  However, should you succeed, you will be a hero to humanity.  Well, you would be a hero if it were safe to disclose your identity afterward!  We'll still give you a medal though.


Special Task: You must do at least three of the following things:

1. Capture at least 2 ARS.
2. Capture BOTH Spire Archives!  >D
3. Hack at least 2 Design Backups.  (Your choice whether you want to corrupt or download.)
4. Hack the Superterminal, if present.

AI Stuff:

AI Types:

AI1: Brutal -- This AI's defensive preference is to shoot intruders on sight, with the biggest gun it can find.  It likes to keep things simple.
AI2: Alarmist -- This AI, however, prefers a more subtle approach to security, crippling and confusing the intruder until its forces can whittle the human fleet down.

Subtypes (Optional):

If you want one or both to have a subtype that's not Brutal or Alarmist, you can pick from the following two lists:

AI1: Neinzul Viral Enthusiast, Neinzul Cluster-Bomber, Neinzul Nester, Thief (capture the intruder to kill at leisure!), or Tag Teamer.
AI2: Attritioner, Counter-Spy, One-Way Doormaster, Peacemaker (did you say starships would maybe make this too easy?), Shadow Master, or Radar Jammer.

Difficulty Level: Your choice!  Only restriction is both AIs must be the same difficulty.

Auto-AIP: At least 1 every 30 minutes -- your infiltration fleet briefly tripped their outer sensor net.  They know something's here and are suspicious.


AI Plots:

You may use no plots if you prefer, or you may pick from the list below, assigning them to whichever AI(s) you like.  Max intensity is 6 for any Plot.

Hunter: A trespasser is here somewhere, we better beef up roaming security to find it.

Hybrid Hives: The AI is using hybrids for extra roaming security.

Advanced Hybrids: This sector is used for scientific R&D, and some of that research is devoted to producing better, faster, meaner hybrids.


Map Settings:

Map Type: Pick whatever you like for layout, it just must have at least 60 planets.  1 homeworld.
Bonus Ship:  Must be something stealthy or teleporting.  This is an infiltration mission!
Ship Types:  Complex.  You can disable certain types if you don't want to play with them in this game, though I think Dire Guardian Lairs would fit the theme of this game well.
Champion:  Nope.  A huge mysterious ship is not sneaky.  ;)
CSGs -- Your choice, the Special Task list might make CSGs overkill so enabling this is up to you.  I forget what header this is actually under but I think of it as being part of the map gen since it affects seeding, so I am putting it here.  :P


Minor Factions:

You can use none, or pick any combination you like from the list below.  If you turn on a minor faction, it can have an intensity no higher than 6.

Marauders: Pirates don't care about not blowing your cover, and they sure don't care about the AI's "no trespassing" signs -- especially since they've heard something valuable might be here for stealing.

Zenith Devourer: He also doesn't care about fences, and all these security forces concentrated here look mighty tasty.

Nomad Planets: Those unruly nomads are an annoying security flaw the AI is trying to lock down.  Maybe you used one to jump the fence and get in to this high-security zone?  If you enable this one, there is a restriction -- you can't use the beacon as a doomsday weapon (we'll just pretend like that ability is broken on this nomad beacon).  The idea is this gives you ways to potentially sneak around the map, and it can create sudden surprise "oh no!" moments if the AI uses it to ambush you.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 05:30:45 PM by Red.Queen »
Infiltrating hostile AI networks to rewrite reality.

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Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2015, 06:15:42 PM »
A bit tired by now (Hell! It's 11:55 P.M. here) but I'll quickly respond to your challenge.

I love the Hacking/Skeaky theme. I quickly tried brutal and it unfolded... disapointingly. I'll post something on that latter (and elsewhere). However, alarmist is interesting and force to play "few planet" or increase paranoia and over-preparation. A turtle colored AI should fit in the theme. Plots: hybrids tend to be aggressive and threatening, and IMO don't fit in a sneaky play. Hunter, however, is great here (also I'm having great troubles in my current 8/8 painful-plots game -- training from 9/9 vanilla). CSG is mandatory for me, no champion because... because! Maybe a heavily linked mapstyle to favor archipelago playstyle, or a shaped one (maybe a concentric, where each ring is deeper... like an exploit). Pirates, why not; they're not a big changer, even at 10, sadly. Devourer + hunter? Maybe just double 4 hunter. Nomad planet? I love it! (Not using the superweapon, of course.) I'm thinking about the meme of the black-dressed infiltrator guy descending just above the diamond in the museum with a harness and rope. (Highscore of most dictionary lookup in one sentence beaten!) Yeah, definitely nomad 4.

However, on the topic of Special tasks, I would rather:
- capture all the ARS (because they are all on CSG A-prime and I always spare the last one)
- capture both archives: OK (I will be short on radar jammers with the nomads and the archives)
- superterminal is always present, but it's rarely worth in term of AIP/HAP... dunno if I'll take this challenge...
- 2 design backups only? Wait for the following proposal.

To increase the stealth theme, I'll play against at least one AI Type with cloaked unlocks (Shadow master? Or is it the one with the planetary cloakers?)
Then I'll pick a starting cloaked ship, and download ALL the AI cloaked ships! (and use triangle uncloaked for defense only, or unlock the high mark cloaker starships)
Stealth VS Stealth.
Sounds good.

Well, thanks for this awesome idea. I'll come back tomorrow to cleanly sum it up.
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Offline Red.Queen

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2015, 09:56:13 PM »
Too bad about the Brutal test not suiting you, but glad you like my Mission Impossible challenge (tweaked to your preferences).  :)

I'd forgotten about the Concentric map type, that would be perfect here -- layered defenses as you work your way towards the middle.  And then a Nomad floats by and offers a shortcut... but can you get your fleet back home afterwards?  >D

I like your suggested alternates for the Special Tasks, go for it!  Shadow Master's the one with the planetary cloak I think, Stealth Master's the "I get every cloaked ship" one.  Stealth Master plus Alarmist should be hilarious -- "oh crap I rang the bell... but I can't see when some of the guards arrive!"  Bonus evil/comedy -- Alarmist gets Stealth Master for a subtype so you can't even SEE the Alarm Post (or the Special Forces when they pop onto the planet)?   >D

I look forward to watching you trying to carefully dole out your Warp Jammers, that should create some fun dilemmas.

(And that scene of the infiltrator is exactly what I had in my mind as I was writing this challenge up.)
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Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2015, 06:40:12 AM »
Okay, let's sum up the "operation Dive to the Core"

Setup

AI1: 7 / Stealth Master / Assassin (codename: Fire)
AI2: 7 / Alarmist / Teleporter Turtle (codename: Ice)
Auto AIP: 1/30
Map: 80/Concentric
Ships: Complex, everything enabled (DGL, CSG, ...)

Plots:
* Hunter (4)*2
* Counter Posts
* Warp Relay

Minor Factions:
* Nomad (4)
* Marauder (4)
* Resistance (4)

Achievements:
* Capture all ARS
* Download all Cloaked Design Backups
* Suck'up all Spire Archives
* Usage of the Nomad Controller forbidden
* Never trigger an Alarm

Setup Comments

Difficulty 7/7 because I don't want a too serious game. I want to be able to mess with the AI and go for unusual strategies (maybe including bruteforce hacking) without being too threatened or punished by failure.

Fire is the aggressive AI, with Assassin for the increased waves and Stealth Master for things to download (and stealth waves are !!fun!! to counter)
Ice is the paranoid AI, with Alarmist for the mandatory red-lazer-triggering-alarm, Turtle for more paranoia and Teleporter for more things to download!

Auto AIP low bot not null; I sometimes play with no auto AIP for the sake of peace of mind (while I enjoy big derailing battles, I prefer cold strategy and taking my time). Anyway, 1/30 is low enough; I plan low AIP however I don't know if it would be possible with so much hacking to do. Maybe I'll be forced to cancel the archipelago playstyle an go for a more conquest/empire playstyle.

Hunter for the guards patrolling the museum/bank/whatever.
Counter Posts and Warp Relay because they're mandatory pain for me.
Marauder/Resistance because they're not very influencing and put a bit more random.
Nomad because... Because!

No Super Terminal achievement because it sucks... and may be very afar or annoying for barely no gain. (You said 3 achievements among the 4 you suggested, I out-picket this one.)

New Other Idea

While I'm thinking, I imagine a new theme (for latter and/or someone else): a teleporter themed game with nomad, teleporter turtle, 120 planet, long tree-like map, brutal defensive combos like superfortress, peacemaker, eyes, DGLairs, GDrills, BHMachines, ... to force the player to bypass them with cloaked transports, teleporting ships and nomad bridges, maybe with no waves at all...

We'll see.
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Offline Red.Queen

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2015, 01:35:44 PM »
I approve these changes heartily.   :D

Going to be very interesting watching this one play out, there are so many mobility-related factors in this revised mix.  Especially now that you added Counter Posts and Warp Relay to it (I had considered suggesting Counter Posts but thought that might be just over the top when Brutal was originally going to be used).

Warp Relay on a Nomad...the *possibilities*.  They are delicious.

Or a DLG on a Nomad.   (Sitting here in the office cackling discreetly.)

Oh I wonder what happens if an Alarmist-held Nomad floats by something right as you capture it... surprise SF tripwire!

Hunter x2 is going to be hilarious if the AIP climbs too high, after what I saw in my last game.

Yesyesyesyesyesyes.

You are going to have a very interesting and complex fleet with all the hacking and the K to unlock everything, looking forward to seeing what you end up building.  And with all the cloaking and teleporting, you'll even have a good way of avoiding using assault transports without losing the ability to move around smoothly.

I hope this ends up being as fun for you to play as it promises to be for me to watch!  :)
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Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2015, 02:18:11 PM »
Warp relay isn't a warp relay problem. For me it's just a timer saying "you've ignored threatening for too long". I'll post a new topic developing my idea.

EDIT:
Arh! Killing an Alarm only has 50% chance not to trigger the alarm! For 5 AIP, 1/2 chance!!! I can have 1/4 a planet, one gate raid, 25,000,000 damage from LightningWH MkI, 30,000 metal from DNodes or 5 mark of ZReserve, for 5 AIP!

I rage-posted on Mantis.

Well, the "never trigger an alarm" achievement is highly compromised. I counted on destroying them to get some HaP for my numerous downloads. I guess I'll need to go with 50% for 5AIP and we would say that triggering an alarm while killing it wouldn't count toward the achievement, OK?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 04:12:51 PM by Pumpkin »
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Offline Traveller

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2015, 08:22:38 PM »
I've got three wins of any significance under my belt, all on 7/7 with very few plots, generally easy versions, or 4/10 or less.  Only ever used the default win condition, and have every expansion except the most recent one.  Used to like golems a lot, but have been avoiding them as OP lately.  I generally play on 60 planets against relatively vanilla or defensive AI types and no subtypes, with pretty simple maps...just tried Spokes so I couldn't effectively gate raid, which was fun, but most of my planets were still super safe.  I'm OCD about grabbing core turret controllers, especially spider ones, and mini-fortresses are my best friend (healing and beachheads).  I'm presently abusing Assault Transports (not even the bug--just that they are powerful) and I'm planning to put those on my personal ban list until they get nerfed, or at least stop using them in combat.  I generally start attacking core worlds with ~250-350 AIP at 15 hours.

...I guess it's starting to sound like I should bump the difficulty up to 7.6 and play against aggressive AIs on a realistic-hubs map, but I'm open to suggestions as long as they won't be 30+ hour games.

Offline Captain Jack

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2015, 09:13:25 PM »
Warp Relay on a Nomad...the *possibilities*.  They are delicious.
I've got a Warp Relay sitting on Nomad 1 in my current game. I'm just waiting for a Nomad to float by an AI homeworld.

It's okay as far as it goes. Could stand to build production facilities there but the Nomad Beacon vampirized more energy than expected. Now what's REALLY fun is the Dyson Sphere spawned on Nomad 2.  :D

Offline Red.Queen

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2015, 01:47:03 AM »
Pumpkin -- Hehe you found out the hard way about the *other* little trick with the Alarm posts.  You can Sabotage hack those I believe to avoid both the alarm and the AIP hit.  I'll let the AI handle thwacking you with a rolled-up newspaper for setting one off.  :P

Traveller -- Hmm, so you feel like your planets have been safe... TOO safe... I have a suggestion that can help fix that (better keep stacking up those core turret controllers...).  Disregard any that require the most recent expansion, I am too impatient to double-check which options come from what expansion at the moment as I am itching to kick off my first 9/9 game in a few minutes.

Try this:

---[Nowhere Is Safe!]---

AI Types: at least one Backdoor Hacker, at least one Warp Jumper.  Secondary types, if any, are your choice, but I suggest picking a type that tends to send more dangerous waves like Mad Bomber or Sledgehammer, or Retaliatory (not Vengeful, that one is currently bugged and awaiting a patch), Overreactive (careful with that fleet!), or if you are feeling like *really* living dangerously, Vorpal.

Map Type:  Realistic or Realistic Hubs, at least 70 planets

Minor Factions (optional, any combo, intensity 4 if activated):  Marauders, Neinzul Rocketry Corps, Nomad Planets

Plots (optional, any combo, intensity 4 if activated):  No Wave Warning, Counterattack Posts, Preemption

Auto-AIP: Your choice, but I personally like high auto AIP (notorious for doing 1/5min), guarantees that late game gets spicy (ever see AIP over 900?  I have!).

Difficulty:  Yes, definitely sounds like it's time for you to bump the difficulty up a few notches.   :) 

Watashiwa -- Oh no, I wasn't meaning the player-built warpgates, but the Threat-built additional warpgates that come from the Warp Relay plot.  Gateraided Nomad ends up having some threat board it, floats behind your lines right as the threatball builds a gate, just in time for a wave to immediately pop out of it.  But the Dyson Sphere spawning on Nomad 2, well, that produces a hearty laugh.
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Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Out of your tracks
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2015, 02:50:21 AM »
Pumpkin -- Hehe you found out the hard way about the *other* little trick with the Alarm posts.  You can Sabotage hack those I believe to avoid both the alarm and the AIP hit.
Destroying an Alarm increase AIP and HaP. Hacking it save AIP but decrease HaP, and hell I'm going to need some by the end of this game! Downloads are not cheap.

Now what's REALLY fun is the Dyson Sphere spawned on Nomad 2.  :D
Free drunk-roaming defense/offense dispenser?
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.