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Games => AI War Classic => AI War Classic - Strategy Discussion => Topic started by: Pumpkin on March 19, 2015, 07:23:12 PM

Title: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on March 19, 2015, 07:23:12 PM
I'm rediscovering AI War with a (almost) no Minor Faction game.

I'm just out from some hours in a game... I wanted it to be more vanilla. I played a spire campaign earlier and won it a bit too easy : the mothership didn't stand the spirefleet firepower. I realized that I'm starting to feel at ease on 7/7 level, even with moderate AI types. I'm planning some harder types still at 7/7 before going for my first 8/8. But before that I wanted to test myself with a no-superweapon game, something that I do very rarely because I love having tons of toys around me, and all my games end up with [golem/spire/spirecraft/neinzul/starship MkV] fleet alone against exo waves or AI core/home worlds, and fleetships staying at home in case of an AI deepstrike. So just to be sure my comfort at 7/7 doesn't come from superweapon abusing, I started a vanilla game (only marauders, rez fighters and Neinzul Rocketry Corp that I'm unusual to). I was worried of being bored by so few "fun" in the activated options. I decided to add myself one more limit: no research in starships.

Surprisingly (to me, at least), I'm having a really good time with this game. AIP is lower than 50 and I need only 2 more CSG, and some data centers are still hanging around. I used no hacking for now. Nothing to play around also mean nothing to get out of your way: no golems, no Dyson, no need for Zenith PowerGen... I rediscovered Eye's fear* and metal lacking (something that never happen in a Fallen Spire campaign: Hab centers at +1K metal/s and exo's tons of scrap), I hunger for research (because I'm taking fewer planets)... and on another side, I'm rediscovering MkIV fleetships' firepower and strategical fleet mixing, I'm toying with Viral Shredders and fighting Powerslavers...

Anyway, I'm out of my tracks and I'm enjoying it!

So tell me:
- Where do you always spend your science? Are you a fleetship player, a starfleet addict like me, a turret boy like Kahuna, or something else?
- Which Minor Factions do you always enable? Do you hunger for superweapons? How long ago did you attacked an AI homeworld with only fleetships (or barely only)?
- Against which kind of AI are you often playing? Have you a favorite AI type? Did you tried no wave warning + cross planet waves + preemption, for instance?
Now create a new game with the opposite and go for what you never do.
Never toyed with younglings? Fight against a youngster AI and go hack its design backups.
Do you always go for low AIP games with deepstrike and assassination style of play? Follow the Fallen Spire campaign and trigger the alternate victory (the Showdown Devices' way is similar but I prefer the ramping up of the FS campaign).
Which Minor Faction do you never enable? Then make a game with this MF at 10 and nothing else.
Did you try a 10 planets map? a 120 one? Is there a map style you're uncomfortable with? Is there a bonus fleetship you never select? An AI type you avoid with disabledaitypes.txt? So just take it and go.

Really, do it, I'm not joking. Tell me what you never do, do it, and come back telling me how it unfolded. And how fun (or maybe unfun) it was.

* Eye's riddle: how to take down an eye without starships? Answer: use starships.

Here's my "goal" list:
- 30/realistic
- 80/snake (starting middle, no superweapon)
- All MF 10
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Mal on March 19, 2015, 10:37:59 PM
What a cool post, pumpkin :)

Concerning playing with fleet ships:

As a newb -  I found that I wanted to use just starships all the time for everything due to their immunities to annoying stuff that easily destroyed fleet ships. Then I learned about swallowing ships/posts that made this tactic really unreliable and downright dangerous. So I mixed in transport ships with bombers and missile frigates to target the medium hull, but still found fleet ships unappealing due to how flimsy they were.

As a struggling Kahuna Turret fan- After deciding that starships were great and that I could invest my energy into turrets to defend home, I still found myself struggling very often with losing worlds to mauraders that come in as an exo behind my defenses. Also a stray Neinzul Rocketry Corp would obliterate homestations ( the rockets are immune to missiles and have nice AOEs that killed my defenses in one blow). I tried multiple builds and arrangements of turrets. If I built defenses too close, then the AI waves/exos/CPAs would trash my planet by bumrushing it ( unless I was advanced enough to have grav 3 turrets). This lead me to trying to keep lightning warheads on hand and stockpile, but those would still be nuked by siege plasma or just not be enough if the world was not a homeworld or a front-line fortress world.

As a more experienced veteran- So this lead me to learn the power of fleetships. The tiny ships I had ignored for so long due to their vulnerability to near everything in the game. These little suckers on patrol routes between my worlds solved nearly all the above problems in one fell swoop - often with little to no research at all. I would FRD them and set them to patrol my empire and they would instantly aggro and distract waves, fly quickly ( thanks to command station speed boosts) to mauraders/neinzul warden preservers, and would cheaply/easily take out stray NCR warheads. I felt like such a noob when I implemented this basic strategy. They were there all along!

Concerning how I play the game now and what I feel is important in minor factions:

The one thing I have learned from exploring the game is that the difficulty of an AI mostly determines its total numbers and wave strength. So I have calmed down on trying to climb the difficulty ladder and to start exploring the AI types themselves as they are what really determines the interesting factor in the game ,not the difficulty number so much ( although 7.6 and 8.6 are what I like to play currently). I usually play with all minor factions enabled because I love the chaos of the game.

But my favorite " negative" minor factions to play with have been the dark spire and the neinzul rocketry corps with nomad planets cranked high. The Darkspire because they can totally trash your empire or easily go and make short work of the AI, depending upon the timing. The Hatred star ship that spawns is like a plasma siege version of the hunter-killer in  some ways, without the machine-gun like fire, but the strength and AEO are pretty damn fierce. The Nomad worlds with NCR silos on them really keep you on your toes as they can ambush your economy line of worlds that are protected. So this keeps your defense distribution and planning honest.

My next game is going to be a diff 7.6 against some of the red AI ( probably not the technologist just because I want to fight more interesting opponents rather than just higher marks of ships, aka a numbers game) such as vicious exotic and vorpal.

Concerning maps -

I tend to like to go random on a 40 grid map just for visibility purposes and because the amount of connections keeps your defenses honest but also makes a solid empire both fun and visually appealing looking...but I will take your advice and try something chaotic...like realistic 80 worlds...for a grand epic game.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on March 20, 2015, 06:40:27 AM
Concerning maps -

I tend to like to go random on a 40 grid map just for visibility purposes and because the amount of connections keeps your defenses honest but also makes a solid empire both fun and visually appealing looking...but I will take your advice and try something chaotic...like realistic 80 worlds...for a grand epic game.

80/realistic is my "default" setup, but I often go back to 80/simple when I increase chaos by enabling many MF at once.
But "many" for me is maybe far away from your "many"; I barely never pick more than one among Fallen Spire, Hard Golems, Hard BotNet, Spirecrafts, Neinzul roaming/preservation. I often enable low-impact MF like Zenith Traders and Dyson Sphere, but never more than five or six MF.

Hey, I got the idea of thematic MF mix. Did you read my topic (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17186.0.html)?

You know what? I'll try a "all MF 10" game, and you'll try a "NO MF" game. What do you think?

What was I saying, again? Oh, right: map size and type.
So 80/realistic for me, and I like shaped map styles, like concentric and X. I never tries wheel; maybe because roads are always 2 planets wide and never less... I'll give it a try one day, but it won't put me out of my tracks, anyway. I tried a 10 planets map and I won, accordingly to my achievements, but I don't remember; I tried it again recently but canceled after the full scout phase with no planet captured. Maybe I'll go for a 40 or 30 planets map; that would push me out of my tracks without pissing me off (hey, the goal is to have fun, not to push ourselves in truly uncomfortable places).

One day I tried a FS campaign on a 120/snake, starting at an end of the snake, and capturing every single planet along the way (aiming the control-110 achievement). My processor was burnt before I completed the capitol! I'll try a snake game with a more reliable strategy, one day: start at the middle (no homeworld would block my path to the other one) and only go for deepstrike and "stepstone" planet capture.

I never tried grids; I imagine it will be a bit awkward. That would push me outa my tracks. I note it. Which size to you recommend, Mal? You said you're comfortable on grids, don't you?

On the sharing side: do you (Mal and others) ever tried all younglings + mobile space docks (MSD)? Do you never feel a bit ashamed with your MkI neinzul starships siding dozens of friendly roaming enclaves? I know some new players rarely try younglings because their use can be unclear only reading their stats. I swear that the 9 MSD + 3 or more younglings types (not counting firefly and nanoswarm; weasel and vulture aren't good alone too) all MkI-IV can tear through a homeworld on 7/7 like a blazing knife through lukewarm butter. Just pretend MSDs are true neinzul enclaves and you can play "human roaming enclaves" MF!

I'll edit my first post to list my "goals".
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Mal on March 20, 2015, 11:35:34 PM
I did see your post, just replied to it.

You are definitely getting the short end of the stick with all MF at 10 hahahah! I would say one MF at 10 would be an interesting/challenging twist to the game as long as the AI is beefed up/powered down appropriately( like playing dif 7 if you normally do dif 8 or if you play with a beneficial MF, beef up the AI to make it to where you need your allies), unless you feel you can juggle it well.

If I go with a no MF game, I will probably make sure the AI is at a diff 7.6 but has a harder type combo, that way the game still stays interesting for me.  It would definitely switch up the game flow for me...I would not have to prepare for four exos in a row, more due to the Shark B plot I always have on.

The real out of the comfort zone for me is map size. Big maps always look tedious in my eyes...but...in this game it might encourage me to do more deepstriking, which is something I don't have to do too much of on a grid map it feels like...

So yeah pumpkin, I accept your challenge!

My proposal for my game ( which I will post in AI War:AAR) is:

, ,  .  Any other counter-proposals for this?

For you, I propose a Clash of the Titans, with you in a supporting role of the nefarious minor factions.


If you want to change any of the above, just let me know...Can't wait to start playing this :)

EDIT- concerning mobile docks and neinzul ships, those are awesome...keith has affectionately dubbed that strat the "dock cannon".
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on March 21, 2015, 05:59:39 AM
I did see your post, just replied to it.
Sorry if I let you think I was talking without taking your post into account. I just wanted to expand on my idea and get a bit carried away by my enthusiasm (as I often do, I realize... Do you think I need a cure about this?) Also, English no being my native language, subtlety about the ways things are said or heard (rather than WHAT is said or heard) are kinda blur for me.

(...) the Shark B plot I always have on.
Yeah, I didn't mentioned that IMO some personal default options are fine. For instance, I always play with the schizophrenic modifier and counter guard post "plot" (I still don't consider it a plot). So if you feel that Shark B is part of the base game as you consider it, it's fine to me. I mean, I'm not a referee, there is no unbreakable rules I and only I state... Am I getting paranoid about the way what I say could be interpreted? Maybe... (Do I need another cure about paranoia on top of overexcitement?)

The real out of the comfort zone for me is map size. Big maps always look tedious in my eyes...but...in this game it might encourage me to do more deepstriking, which is something I don't have to do too much of on a grid map it feels like...

So yeah pumpkin, I accept your challenge!

My proposal for my game ( which I will post in AI War:AAR) is:

  • two dif 7.6 AI, both are random/random non-technologist harder types
  • no MF options on
  • no AI plots ( which I normally turn them all on)
  • on a max size map, (120 I think), on Realistic, random start locale
, ,  .  Any other counter-proposals for this?
Are you comfortable on 80? You mentioned 40/grid; if that's your comfort zone, maybe 80/realistic  is enough "outa tracks". You know, 80/realistic is my comfort zone, but 120/realistic often frustrate me. It's up to you.
I suggest you consider enabling shark plot, counter posts, warp relay, schizophrenic  and/or preemption if they're part of your base game. They're minor tweaks (unless preemption, maybe; I didn't toyed much with it). Human Marauders and/or Resistance Fighters at 2 (or somewhere in 1~3) seems fine. The point of the challenge is "no superweapon" (golems, spirecrafts, traders...), and not "boring game". The point is not to put yourself in a TLF game with only Peltians!!!

For you, I propose a Clash of the Titans, with you in a supporting role of the nefarious minor factions.

  • Two dif 7.6 AI at any random you want, you can reveal AI types if you so please
  • Darkspire at 10/10 - the nightmares these things can generate can both aid you indirectly or decimate you with extreme prejudice
  • Human Resistance 10/10 - powerful human allies are commanding this war, these ships will spawn frequently and help defend you and lead the offensive against the AI.
  • 40 Map Grid, random homeworld start

If you want to change any of the above, just let me know...Can't wait to start playing this :)
7.6/7.6
I never went ahead of 7/7. My plan was to test if 7/7 no-superweapon was comfortable before jumping to my first 8/8 no-superweapon. Maybe I'll stay 7/7 for a reasonably !!fun!! game. Or maybe go for a 8/8 Clash of the Titans if I doesn't fell truly uncomfortable with 8/8 vanilla.

Dark Spire 10 VS Human Resistance 10
Dark Spire doens't frighten me... when at 4. I never tried to push it up, so ok, I'll take the "DS vs HRF" challenge.

40/grid
Ok for 40; I was planning an 40~20 map one day, so I'll be enough "outa my tracks" with that.
Grid? Well, that would be awkward for me. I'm familiar on a chaotic network designing its own random clusters, bottlenecks and highways (simple or realistic) or on a shaped snake or concentric where I know a special strategy to adopt. But I've no "special strategy" for grid. Nice! I'll be challenged AND I'll learn something new! Ok for grid.

(...) with you in a supporting role of the nefarious minor factions.
Oh yesss, I want to be nefarious!
Ya wana push it up? Enabling Neinzul Roaming Enclave on 10 could be in the "you're the support, I'm not" style of game: I would allow my friendly enclaves to attack independently and go support them. I remember some 7/7 games with roaming enclaves at 4 where 20 or so friendly enclaves were gathered at my home, sometimes going on a defense duty when waves hit; I enabled "allow independent attacks" and went back to my own plans; about one hour latter, half the galaxy was neutered. I felt like a Fallen Spire campaign where you don't control the spire fleet. (Hey, that's an idea! Protect some neinzul node and they'll fight for you like a Rebelling Colony, but you don't contol them like Dyson's spawn or BotNet's zombies.)

So I add Roaming Enclaves 10 VS Preservation Wardens 10 to my challenge. What do you think?
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Mal on March 21, 2015, 08:35:19 AM
Quote
The point of the challenge is "no superweapon" (golems, spirecrafts, traders...), and not "boring game". The point is not to put yourself in a TLF game with only Peltians!!!

HAHAHAHA! This made me laugh pretty hard.

Quote
Also, English no being my native language, subtlety about the ways things are said or heard (rather than WHAT is said or heard) are kinda blur for me.

No worries, you are pretty clear with your meanings...shit, you express yourself better than I do sometimes :)

Quote
(Do I need another cure about paranoia on top of overexcitement?)

We play AI War, enthusiasm and paranoia are both required!

Quote
I suggest you consider enabling shark plot, counter posts, warp relay, schizophrenic  and/or preemption if they're part of your base game....Are you comfortable on 80? You mentioned 40/grid; if that's your comfort zone, maybe 80/realistic  is enough "outa tracks". You know, 80/realistic is my comfort zone, but 120/realistic often frustrate me. It's up to you.

Alright! Done and done. I will enable all the AI plots, go on an 80 realistic map, and just won't have any super-weapons or minor factions on.



Quote
So I add Roaming Enclaves 10 VS Preservation Wardens 10 to my challenge. What do you think?

Accepted! Game on brother! I will start playing tomorrow( i mean today, I just have not slept yet rofl) and post up my progress or defeat as I go on the AAR board. Looking forward to trading war stories with you.

(http://i.imgur.com/aSprmht.jpg)
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on March 22, 2015, 05:40:25 AM
Quote
(Do I need another cure about paranoia on top of overexcitement?)
We play AI War, enthusiasm and paranoia are both required!
That's so true I added it to my signature. "AI War, a game about enthusiasm and paranoia". It could be a meme. Or maybe replace "fleet command" in the title. Or be an expansion name! Or... meds... BRB...

Accepted! Game on brother! I will start playing tomorrow( i mean today, I just have not slept yet rofl) and post up my progress or defeat as I go on the AAR board. Looking forward to trading war stories with you.
I never posted AAR. Maybe I'll do. Did you read RedQueen's "Aggressive Stupidity"? That kind of stuff makes me want to try. I'm a bit busy this week, but I'll have more time to kick AI's butts soon.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Mal on March 22, 2015, 12:07:19 PM
Hah! A signature line from me? You do me too much honor pumpkin.

Yeah, no need for you to do an AAR if you are busy, I just wanted to do it because it will be fun. But if you do, I shall surely read it and comment it up! As far as Red.Queen's AAR, I want to read it and have some time today, so I will definitely give it a look.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: chemical_art on March 22, 2015, 12:31:42 PM
...
  • Two dif 7.6 AI at any random you want, you can reveal AI types if you so please
  • Darkspire at 10/10 - the nightmares these things can generate can both aid you indirectly or decimate you with extreme prejudice
  • Human Resistance 10/10 - powerful human allies are commanding this war, these ships will spawn frequently and help defend you and lead the offensive against the AI.
  • 40 Map Grid, random homeworld start

If you want to change any of the above, just let me know...Can't wait to start playing this :)

EDIT- concerning mobile docks and neinzul ships, those are awesome...keith has affectionately dubbed that strat the "dock cannon".

Ears perked up at the mention of Darkspire.

I have only done one 10/10 game with a relatively mild amount of cheese and that involved using those guys being the "peacekeepers" of the galaxy. The initial rush of them once they are start going crazy will be bad. Really bad. If by a miracle you live, you should find a galaxy clean except for the homeworlds. Good luck! If you are interested I can try to dig up some notes on what I used to mitagate the terror.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Mal on March 22, 2015, 12:53:47 PM
Yeah, if you have any helpful hints against a 10/10 Darkspire I would definitely like to know :)

Hey Pumpkin, here is the start of the AAR. http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17206.0.html (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17206.0.html)
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on March 22, 2015, 02:04:14 PM
I have only done one 10/10 game with a relatively mild amount of cheese and that involved using those guys being the "peacekeepers" of the galaxy. The initial rush of them once they are start going crazy will be bad. Really bad. If by a miracle you live, you should find a galaxy clean except for the homeworlds. Good luck! If you are interested I can try to dig up some notes on what I used to mitagate the terror.
Thank you very much, but please don't. The goal of this game is to put the player (myself, for our instance) in a galaxy where his little onslaught isn't the main topic. From the galaxy's point of view, at least. Neinzuls factions are fighting each others and ancient dark artifacts are blindly wreaking the place. In the middle of what Human Resistance Fighters decided to finish with the AI and the player (me) is required to support them.

The big twist is "you are not in charge".

So if you want to explain to Mal how to deal with a 10 Darkspire, please do. But in another thread, to allow me not to be spoiled now. Anyway, do expose your helpful hints, I'll need it sooner or latter  ;)

(I hope I don't let you think I'm sarcastic, because I'm not.)

Hey Pumpkin, here is the start of the AAR. http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17206.0.html (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17206.0.html)
I'll read it in a minute.

You know what, I had (yet another (stupid)) mod idea that I'm working on  ;)
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: chemical_art on March 22, 2015, 02:13:34 PM
Yeah, if you have any helpful hints against a 10/10 Darkspire I would definitely like to know :)

Hey Pumpkin, here is the start of the AAR. http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17206.0.html (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17206.0.html)

Cool. Now remember, I haven't done this since like....a year ago. I'm sure Arcen has thrown some new tricks but the idea is still sound for 8.0 or less.

First of all, those dark spire outpost structures? You are not going to put any ship more then a scout there unless you are a genius and manage to arrange to destroy those tachyon posts without you or the AI losing any ships so you can cloak ships past the system. In other words you cannot let anything more then a scout or two die at any of those posts until you are ready.

Now, Pumpkin just interjected and said he wanted no spoilers, so I will not go into any further detail here. I will feel it is OK to say that *whatever* plan you have, make sure it is ready before any military ships die at those dark spire structures. Just...avoid them. If you want more details Start a thread and I'll respond but it is Pumpkin's thread and I want everyone to have fun.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have only done one 10/10 game with a relatively mild amount of cheese and that involved using those guys being the "peacekeepers" of the galaxy. The initial rush of them once they are start going crazy will be bad. Really bad. If by a miracle you live, you should find a galaxy clean except for the homeworlds. Good luck! If you are interested I can try to dig up some notes on what I used to mitagate the terror.
Thank you very much, but please don't. The goal of this game is to put the player (myself, for our instance) in a galaxy where his little onslaught isn't the main topic. From the galaxy's point of view, at least. Neinzuls factions are fighting each others and ancient dark artifacts are blindly wreaking the place. In the middle of what Human Resistance Fighters decided to finish with the AI and the player (me) is required to support them.

The big twist is "you are not in charge".

So if you want to explain to Mal how to deal with a 10 Darkspire, please do. But in another thread, to allow me not to be spoiled now. Anyway, do expose your helpful hints, I'll need it sooner or latter  ;)

(I hope I don't let you think I'm sarcastic, because I'm not.)
As to you Pumpkin, I just  want to clarify what you want. Do you want me to tell you what you should do before you trigger any of those dark spire structures, but not tell you what happens when you do trigger them, or do you mean something else? I will accomadate the best I can, I just want to make sure I do not say too much.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on March 22, 2015, 04:03:26 PM
Hey, Chemical Art, don't take me too seriously. I mean, don't walk like on eggs just because I said "no spoils!". And excuse me for having been* a bit authoritarian with my "go spoil away" request.

And now that I re-read my previous post, I understand how the "I'm not sarcastic" could have been eared*. I wanted to prevent you thinking I didn't wanted your "useful tips" and that "useful" was sarcastic. Sorry about that, really.

Then, to clarify. I know how Vengeance Generators behaves at intensity 4 and already won a game with 'em, and what happens when something fart a bit too loud in their neighborhood. And I can easily imagine what kind of self sustained hazard may happen on high intensities. But what I doesn't wanted you to spoil me is the advanced strategy about intensity 10 DS. I've got some idea about that, like carefully avoiding, as you said. But I hope I'll be surprised by it (like "Oh, roaming enclaves were allowed to attack without me and now they've awoken some VG... Oops.") And then your hints would be of a great help to me!

*: is that correct? Ya know, French sometimes has some tortured and twisted ways of telling things, and hell it would be difficult to learn, but... AI War is not only putting my strategical skill to its edge, but my English skill as well! (And as you see with the "sarcastic" stuff, I'm still not totally comfortable.)

EDIT:
I will accomadate the best I can, I just want to make sure I do not say too much.
You're too kind, even after all the mess I've done. Thank you for your patience.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Mal on March 22, 2015, 04:18:16 PM
Very cool Chemical, alright, my thread asking for your advice on high is here - http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php?board=31.0 (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php?board=31.0)
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: chemical_art on March 22, 2015, 09:00:02 PM
Hey, Chemical Art, don't take me too seriously. I mean, don't walk like on eggs just because I said "no spoils!". And excuse me for having been* a bit authoritarian with my "go spoil away" request.

And now that I re-read my previous post, I understand how the "I'm not sarcastic" could have been eared*. I wanted to prevent you thinking I didn't wanted your "useful tips" and that "useful" was sarcastic. Sorry about that, really.

Then, to clarify. I know how Vengeance Generators behaves at intensity 4 and already won a game with 'em, and what happens when something fart a bit too loud in their neighborhood. And I can easily imagine what kind of self sustained hazard may happen on high intensities. But what I doesn't wanted you to spoil me is the advanced strategy about intensity 10 DS. I've got some idea about that, like carefully avoiding, as you said. But I hope I'll be surprised by it (like "Oh, roaming enclaves were allowed to attack without me and now they've awoken some VG... Oops.") And then your hints would be of a great help to me!

*: is that correct? Ya know, French sometimes has some tortured and twisted ways of telling things, and hell it would be difficult to learn, but... AI War is not only putting my strategical skill to its edge, but my English skill as well! (And as you see with the "sarcastic" stuff, I'm still not totally comfortable.)


Pleasure is all mine. In Mal's thread I went into some detail on strategy, so you can read that when things get rough. I will just reiterate you will need to establish a chokepoint and fortify it to no tomorrow, and just hope the ai runs out of ships before you do during the blizzard.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Kahuna on March 25, 2015, 12:18:45 AM
You are not going to put any ship more then a scout there unless you are a genius and manage to arrange to destroy those tachyon posts without you or the AI losing any ships so you can cloak ships past the system. In other words you cannot let anything more then a scout or two die at any of those posts until you are ready.
Destroying Tachyon Guardians aren't ships? They're Guardians after all. Also you could destroy them with Assault Transports. Flagships have damage multiplier vs Medium so put a couple of Flagships and Plasma Siege Starships into the Assault Transport(s) and then go pop some Tachyon Guardians.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on March 25, 2015, 05:34:18 AM
My last game is done. It was a (barely) no MF, so no superweapon. A vanilla 7/7 game with the challenge to unlock almost only fleetships. It didn't pushed me too much out of my tracks, just forced me to play with fleetships because I'm a starship fanatic (yep, same as the AI), but I love fleetships too. I got viral shredders and vampire claws, among other fun things. I was surprised how a 7/7 game could be hard, without superweapons. It pushed my skill for sure, but maybe not to its edge, however, because I still don't use warheads. One day, maybe. On 8/8, maybe.

Anyway, you're not here to listen to my life. You're here to get !!fun!!
So my next game will be Mal's challenge. (Mal, do you really know what your pseudo mean in French? Do you realize how fun it is to me to write "Mal's challenge"?)
What did we say? Oh, yeah, Pumpkin's gona be nefarious!

Minor Factions:

Human Resistance Fighters: 10
Dark Spire: 10
Neinzul Roaming Enclaves: 10
Neinzul Preservation Wardens: 10


Other options:

Map Style: grid
Map size: 40
Starting Homeworld: random


Personal defaults:

Auto AIP: 1/30min
AI Modifiers: Schizophrenic
AI Plot: Counter Post (both)
AI Types: Random Moderate*
AI Difficulty: 7/7**


* ...minus the ones I already encountered, related to achievements.
** I know we've said 7.6/7.6, but my last 7/7 vanilla made me a bit shy about toying with diff immediately. :-[

So in that game the surviving humans are struggling with a vile force of corrupted Spire, while Neinzul are fighting each other in their intestinal election's turmoil to determine who'll decide the next color "à la mode" for enclaves' hull.
And I, in the middle of this, am the nefarious minor faction of the last human faithful to Terra's memory who want to seek revenge against the AI. I'll promise to vote for yellow enclaves for them to clean the galaxy from AI's guard posts, and I'll trade chocolate bar with humans and hopefully they'll patrol my modest territory and defend me from the elder evilness lurking around.

And of course I'll post the AAR on this forum. I've got some idea about my interpretation of the game. Red.Queen's AAR inspired me a lot. Does someone know about Sup'Com?


Well. Nobody else is interested in getting a challenge like that? Our strategical consultations are on sale -50% off! Just tell us where is your comfort zone and we'll put you out of your tracks!
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on April 24, 2015, 10:56:44 AM
Well, well, well.

This stup... very interesting challenge is done; 8/8 vanilla is done; ... Oh, my AI War TODO list is empty...
*turn the piece of paper over*
Ah, yeah, 10/10... not for today... I said "outa my tracks", not "into the fire of hell".

So, I came with a silly idea that I partially tested... a sort of invasion mode.
No wave warning, cross planet waves and preemption, alongside with some aggressive AI types.
It's supposed to push ones' defense skills to its edge. I did no wave warning + CPwave (and no preemption) but got turtle AI types... The annoying is that waves tend to pile as threat and never attack, so the CPwave+preemption may just be no wave and preemption++. Sad.
If someone is interested in testing this out, taking the challenge or tweaking/improving it, I'll be happy to hear.

Also I think (need testing) a 10 intensity preemption is 100% reinforcements released as threat, that's why the common middle ground of 4 intensity (40% reinforcement?) is already a bit high. Maybe mantis that one day (intensity 10 would be 50% so intensity 4 would be 20%, which is already a big plot).

Anyway, back to silly challenge dispensing.

Red.Queen

You seems to like archipelago style of play.
Then I present you with one of my favorite plot-mix:
- No minor faction unless I allow it (I love being a benevolent dictator... Too much SBR-redshirt alter mind)
- Fallen Spire
- Tree/80 (or spoke or X if you prefer)
- White: Gravity Driller / Black: One-way doormaster
- optional Zenith Trader
- optional CPwave + no wave warning
- any other plot/modifier you want
- No auto AIP (Well, normal auto AIP if you really want it (but no more than 1/30 min... Well, let's say 5/30 because it's you (How can you negotiate without posting? (too much parenthesis in this list entry))))
- optional Spire Civilian Leaders if you complain about no/low auto AIP
- any AI difficulty
- secondary types if you really want to (or putting GravDriller/OW-DM secondary and picking random primary)

Goal of the challenge:
- introduce you to the awesome Fallen Spire campaign
- force you to go conquest

(My other favorite FS campaign is the Nomad Spire campaign... because Spire cities have a special rule on Nomad planets.)

Call it "space-time war" and add "Gallifrey" to your altplanetnames.txt ;)

Mal

After your suspended Xenofilth and Time Bomb games, I don't know what you were doing... Big Tangled Map (should be a map style name) was supposed to be an interesting challenge to you. I don't know what you're up to. Please gives signs of life. ;)

Pumpkin

Here!

Well, the recent double Teuthida enthralled me into giving the brutal type a try. However, I don't know how to put it in a thematic flavor. Maybe using my Thematic Zenith LobbyScript, however I already tried one (the golem/hard + golemite is !!fun!!). It has been some games I played vanilla/no-superweapon; maybe it's time to get back to it (Oh, and I'll play starfleet, like in the good ol' days). But then the brutal GP wouldn't be that challenging... I dunno. You tell me.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Mal on April 24, 2015, 11:40:28 PM
Quote
After your suspended Xenofilth and Time Bomb games, I don't know what you were doing... Big Tangled Map (should be a map style name) was supposed to be an interesting challenge to you. I don't know what you're up to. Please gives signs of life. ;)

As I said back in that thread the Vengeful AI was not working, reported it as a mantis, waiting for fix.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on April 25, 2015, 04:57:46 AM
Quote
After your suspended Xenofilth and Time Bomb games, I don't know what you were doing... Big Tangled Map (should be a map style name) was supposed to be an interesting challenge to you. I don't know what you're up to. Please gives signs of life. ;)

As I said back in that thread the Vengeful AI was not working, reported it as a mantis, waiting for fix.
I'm aware of that part, but I expected you to go on a new campaign in the meantime. You mean you're not playing AI War at all? I can't believe it!
 :P
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Red.Queen on April 25, 2015, 05:28:49 PM
Heya Pumpkin,

I'm going to hold off on taking that challenge in its exact form for now, I'm currently focused on trying to flush out the ceiling on what difficulty I can handle before I start checking out the alternate campaigns. It's the same reason I'm stepping through the minor factions and plots a few at a time, and at moderate settings.  Well, except for auto-AIP but you know the story behind that one already.  ;)

However... I've been thinking about what settings I want to try next on either 8.6 or 9 and I *was* thinking about the CPA waves and no wave warning plots...  So I just might have to consider your challenge a second vote to try those two plots next.  :)

And your vote for seeing me go on a "crush my enemies, drive them before me, and hear the lamentations of their women" conquest spree is... duly noted.  >D  I might be able to make that work for the next chapter of Aggressive Stupidity.  Let me think about it a bit more, I'm not going to start my next game until I finish posting AS2 at any rate (won't be long, I'm getting down to the end) -- still recharging my AI War batteries.

Buuut... I was thinking about YOUR thoughts on what to play next, and I think I have a themed challenge for you!  8)  (Wow this took a while to write out, hehe.)


---[Mission: Impossible]---

Agent Pumpkin, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to infiltrate a high-security galaxy that the AI has concentrated some of their best science facilities in, capture as much research and development as possible, and then blow up their command centers to sabotage their development efforts to buy the Resistance more time.

The enemy has heavily defended this sector due to its great value to the war effort, so this will be no easy task.  However, should you succeed, you will be a hero to humanity.  Well, you would be a hero if it were safe to disclose your identity afterward!  We'll still give you a medal though.

Special Task:  You must do at least three of the following things:

1. Capture at least 2 ARS.
2. Capture BOTH Spire Archives!  >D
3. Hack at least 2 Design Backups.  (Your choice whether you want to corrupt or download.)
4. Hack the Superterminal, if present.

AI Stuff:

AI Types:

AI1: Brutal -- This AI's defensive preference is to shoot intruders on sight, with the biggest gun it can find.  It likes to keep things simple.
AI2: Alarmist -- This AI, however, prefers a more subtle approach to security, crippling and confusing the intruder until its forces can whittle the human fleet down.

Subtypes (Optional):

If you want one or both to have a subtype that's not Brutal or Alarmist, you can pick from the following two lists:

AI1: Neinzul Viral Enthusiast, Neinzul Cluster-Bomber, Neinzul Nester, Thief (capture the intruder to kill at leisure!), or Tag Teamer.
AI2: Attritioner, Counter-Spy, One-Way Doormaster, Peacemaker (did you say starships would maybe make this too easy?), Shadow Master, or Radar Jammer.

Difficulty Level: Your choice!  Only restriction is both AIs must be the same difficulty.

Auto-AIP: At least 1 every 30 minutes -- your infiltration fleet briefly tripped their outer sensor net.  They know something's here and are suspicious.


AI Plots:

You may use no plots if you prefer, or you may pick from the list below, assigning them to whichever AI(s) you like.  Max intensity is 6 for any Plot.

Hunter: A trespasser is here somewhere, we better beef up roaming security to find it.

Hybrid Hives: The AI is using hybrids for extra roaming security.

Advanced Hybrids: This sector is used for scientific R&D, and some of that research is devoted to producing better, faster, meaner hybrids.


Map Settings:

Map Type:  Pick whatever you like for layout, it just must have at least 60 planets.  1 homeworld.
Bonus Ship:  Must be something stealthy or teleporting.  This is an infiltration mission!
Ship Types:  Complex.  You can disable certain types if you don't want to play with them in this game, though I think Dire Guardian Lairs would fit the theme of this game well.
Champion:  Nope.  A huge mysterious ship is not sneaky.  ;)
CSGs -- Your choice, the Special Task list might make CSGs overkill so enabling this is up to you.  I forget what header this is actually under but I think of it as being part of the map gen since it affects seeding, so I am putting it here.  :P


Minor Factions:

You can use none, or pick any combination you like from the list below.  If you turn on a minor faction, it can have an intensity no higher than 6.

Marauders: Pirates don't care about not blowing your cover, and they sure don't care about the AI's "no trespassing" signs -- especially since they've heard something valuable might be here for stealing.

Zenith Devourer: He also doesn't care about fences, and all these security forces concentrated here look mighty tasty.

Nomad Planets: Those unruly nomads are an annoying security flaw the AI is trying to lock down.  Maybe you used one to jump the fence and get in to this high-security zone?  If you enable this one, there is a restriction -- you can't use the beacon as a doomsday weapon (we'll just pretend like that ability is broken on this nomad beacon).  The idea is this gives you ways to potentially sneak around the map, and it can create sudden surprise "oh no!" moments if the AI uses it to ambush you.

Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on April 25, 2015, 06:15:42 PM
A bit tired by now (Hell! It's 11:55 P.M. here) but I'll quickly respond to your challenge.

I love the Hacking/Skeaky theme. I quickly tried brutal and it unfolded... disapointingly. I'll post something on that latter (and elsewhere). However, alarmist is interesting and force to play "few planet" or increase paranoia and over-preparation. A turtle colored AI should fit in the theme. Plots: hybrids tend to be aggressive and threatening, and IMO don't fit in a sneaky play. Hunter, however, is great here (also I'm having great troubles in my current 8/8 painful-plots game -- training from 9/9 vanilla). CSG is mandatory for me, no champion because... because! Maybe a heavily linked mapstyle to favor archipelago playstyle, or a shaped one (maybe a concentric, where each ring is deeper... like an exploit). Pirates, why not; they're not a big changer, even at 10, sadly. Devourer + hunter? Maybe just double 4 hunter. Nomad planet? I love it! (Not using the superweapon, of course.) I'm thinking about the meme of the black-dressed infiltrator guy descending just above the diamond in the museum with a harness and rope. (Highscore of most dictionary lookup in one sentence beaten!) Yeah, definitely nomad 4.

However, on the topic of Special tasks, I would rather:
- capture all the ARS (because they are all on CSG A-prime and I always spare the last one)
- capture both archives: OK (I will be short on radar jammers with the nomads and the archives)
- superterminal is always present, but it's rarely worth in term of AIP/HAP... dunno if I'll take this challenge...
- 2 design backups only? Wait for the following proposal.

To increase the stealth theme, I'll play against at least one AI Type with cloaked unlocks (Shadow master? Or is it the one with the planetary cloakers?)
Then I'll pick a starting cloaked ship, and download ALL the AI cloaked ships! (and use triangle uncloaked for defense only, or unlock the high mark cloaker starships)
Stealth VS Stealth.
Sounds good.

Well, thanks for this awesome idea. I'll come back tomorrow to cleanly sum it up.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Red.Queen on April 25, 2015, 09:56:13 PM
Too bad about the Brutal test not suiting you, but glad you like my Mission Impossible challenge (tweaked to your preferences).  :)

I'd forgotten about the Concentric map type, that would be perfect here -- layered defenses as you work your way towards the middle.  And then a Nomad floats by and offers a shortcut... but can you get your fleet back home afterwards?  >D

I like your suggested alternates for the Special Tasks, go for it!  Shadow Master's the one with the planetary cloak I think, Stealth Master's the "I get every cloaked ship" one.  Stealth Master plus Alarmist should be hilarious -- "oh crap I rang the bell... but I can't see when some of the guards arrive!"  Bonus evil/comedy -- Alarmist gets Stealth Master for a subtype so you can't even SEE the Alarm Post (or the Special Forces when they pop onto the planet)?   >D

I look forward to watching you trying to carefully dole out your Warp Jammers, that should create some fun dilemmas.

(And that scene of the infiltrator is exactly what I had in my mind as I was writing this challenge up.)
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on April 26, 2015, 06:40:12 AM
Okay, let's sum up the "operation Dive to the Core"

Setup

AI1: 7 / Stealth Master / Assassin (codename: Fire)
AI2: 7 / Alarmist / Teleporter Turtle (codename: Ice)
Auto AIP: 1/30
Map: 80/Concentric
Ships: Complex, everything enabled (DGL, CSG, ...)

Plots:
* Hunter (4)*2
* Counter Posts
* Warp Relay

Minor Factions:
* Nomad (4)
* Marauder (4)
* Resistance (4)

Achievements:
* Capture all ARS
* Download all Cloaked Design Backups
* Suck'up all Spire Archives
* Usage of the Nomad Controller forbidden
* Never trigger an Alarm

Setup Comments

Difficulty 7/7 because I don't want a too serious game. I want to be able to mess with the AI and go for unusual strategies (maybe including bruteforce hacking) without being too threatened or punished by failure.

Fire is the aggressive AI, with Assassin for the increased waves and Stealth Master for things to download (and stealth waves are !!fun!! to counter)
Ice is the paranoid AI, with Alarmist for the mandatory red-lazer-triggering-alarm, Turtle for more paranoia and Teleporter for more things to download!

Auto AIP low bot not null; I sometimes play with no auto AIP for the sake of peace of mind (while I enjoy big derailing battles, I prefer cold strategy and taking my time). Anyway, 1/30 is low enough; I plan low AIP however I don't know if it would be possible with so much hacking to do. Maybe I'll be forced to cancel the archipelago playstyle an go for a more conquest/empire playstyle.

Hunter for the guards patrolling the museum/bank/whatever.
Counter Posts and Warp Relay because they're mandatory pain for me.
Marauder/Resistance because they're not very influencing and put a bit more random.
Nomad because... Because!

No Super Terminal achievement because it sucks... and may be very afar or annoying for barely no gain. (You said 3 achievements among the 4 you suggested, I out-picket this one.)

New Other Idea

While I'm thinking, I imagine a new theme (for latter and/or someone else): a teleporter themed game with nomad, teleporter turtle, 120 planet, long tree-like map, brutal defensive combos like superfortress, peacemaker, eyes, DGLairs, GDrills, BHMachines, ... to force the player to bypass them with cloaked transports, teleporting ships and nomad bridges, maybe with no waves at all...

We'll see.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Red.Queen on April 27, 2015, 01:35:44 PM
I approve these changes heartily.   :D

Going to be very interesting watching this one play out, there are so many mobility-related factors in this revised mix.  Especially now that you added Counter Posts and Warp Relay to it (I had considered suggesting Counter Posts but thought that might be just over the top when Brutal was originally going to be used).

Warp Relay on a Nomad...the *possibilities*.  They are delicious.

Or a DLG on a Nomad.   (Sitting here in the office cackling discreetly.)

Oh I wonder what happens if an Alarmist-held Nomad floats by something right as you capture it... surprise SF tripwire!

Hunter x2 is going to be hilarious if the AIP climbs too high, after what I saw in my last game.

Yesyesyesyesyesyes.

You are going to have a very interesting and complex fleet with all the hacking and the K to unlock everything, looking forward to seeing what you end up building.  And with all the cloaking and teleporting, you'll even have a good way of avoiding using assault transports without losing the ability to move around smoothly.

I hope this ends up being as fun for you to play as it promises to be for me to watch!  :)
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on April 27, 2015, 02:18:11 PM
Warp relay isn't a warp relay problem. For me it's just a timer saying "you've ignored threatening for too long". I'll post a new topic developing my idea.

EDIT:
Arh! Killing an Alarm only has 50% chance not to trigger the alarm! For 5 AIP, 1/2 chance!!! I can have 1/4 a planet, one gate raid, 25,000,000 damage from LightningWH MkI, 30,000 metal from DNodes or 5 mark of ZReserve, for 5 AIP!

I rage-posted on Mantis (http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=16412).

Well, the "never trigger an alarm" achievement is highly compromised. I counted on destroying them to get some HaP for my numerous downloads. I guess I'll need to go with 50% for 5AIP and we would say that triggering an alarm while killing it wouldn't count toward the achievement, OK?
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Traveller on April 29, 2015, 08:22:38 PM
I've got three wins of any significance under my belt, all on 7/7 with very few plots, generally easy versions, or 4/10 or less.  Only ever used the default win condition, and have every expansion except the most recent one.  Used to like golems a lot, but have been avoiding them as OP lately.  I generally play on 60 planets against relatively vanilla or defensive AI types and no subtypes, with pretty simple maps...just tried Spokes so I couldn't effectively gate raid, which was fun, but most of my planets were still super safe.  I'm OCD about grabbing core turret controllers, especially spider ones, and mini-fortresses are my best friend (healing and beachheads).  I'm presently abusing Assault Transports (not even the bug--just that they are powerful) and I'm planning to put those on my personal ban list until they get nerfed, or at least stop using them in combat.  I generally start attacking core worlds with ~250-350 AIP at 15 hours.

...I guess it's starting to sound like I should bump the difficulty up to 7.6 and play against aggressive AIs on a realistic-hubs map, but I'm open to suggestions as long as they won't be 30+ hour games.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Captain Jack on April 29, 2015, 09:13:25 PM
Warp Relay on a Nomad...the *possibilities*.  They are delicious.
I've got a Warp Relay sitting on Nomad 1 in my current game. I'm just waiting for a Nomad to float by an AI homeworld.

It's okay as far as it goes. Could stand to build production facilities there but the Nomad Beacon vampirized more energy than expected. Now what's REALLY fun is the Dyson Sphere spawned on Nomad 2.  :D
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Red.Queen on April 30, 2015, 01:47:03 AM
Pumpkin -- Hehe you found out the hard way about the *other* little trick with the Alarm posts.  You can Sabotage hack those I believe to avoid both the alarm and the AIP hit.  I'll let the AI handle thwacking you with a rolled-up newspaper for setting one off.  :P

Traveller -- Hmm, so you feel like your planets have been safe... TOO safe... I have a suggestion that can help fix that (better keep stacking up those core turret controllers...).  Disregard any that require the most recent expansion, I am too impatient to double-check which options come from what expansion at the moment as I am itching to kick off my first 9/9 game in a few minutes.

Try this:

---[Nowhere Is Safe!]---

AI Types: at least one Backdoor Hacker, at least one Warp Jumper.  Secondary types, if any, are your choice, but I suggest picking a type that tends to send more dangerous waves like Mad Bomber or Sledgehammer, or Retaliatory (not Vengeful, that one is currently bugged and awaiting a patch), Overreactive (careful with that fleet!), or if you are feeling like *really* living dangerously, Vorpal.

Map Type:  Realistic or Realistic Hubs, at least 70 planets

Minor Factions (optional, any combo, intensity 4 if activated):  Marauders, Neinzul Rocketry Corps, Nomad Planets

Plots (optional, any combo, intensity 4 if activated):  No Wave Warning, Counterattack Posts, Preemption

Auto-AIP: Your choice, but I personally like high auto AIP (notorious for doing 1/5min), guarantees that late game gets spicy (ever see AIP over 900?  I have!).

Difficulty:  Yes, definitely sounds like it's time for you to bump the difficulty up a few notches.   :) 

Watashiwa -- Oh no, I wasn't meaning the player-built warpgates, but the Threat-built additional warpgates that come from the Warp Relay plot.  Gateraided Nomad ends up having some threat board it, floats behind your lines right as the threatball builds a gate, just in time for a wave to immediately pop out of it.  But the Dyson Sphere spawning on Nomad 2, well, that produces a hearty laugh.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on April 30, 2015, 02:50:21 AM
Pumpkin -- Hehe you found out the hard way about the *other* little trick with the Alarm posts.  You can Sabotage hack those I believe to avoid both the alarm and the AIP hit.
Destroying an Alarm increase AIP and HaP. Hacking it save AIP but decrease HaP, and hell I'm going to need some by the end of this game! Downloads are not cheap.

Now what's REALLY fun is the Dyson Sphere spawned on Nomad 2.  :D
Free drunk-roaming defense/offense dispenser?
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Captain Jack on April 30, 2015, 05:31:25 AM
This game's been kinda weird. For more Nomad fun, N3 has an Armored Golem, but where things get funny is how the first two FS Shards both spawned on the same planet. I didn't notice until the Survey Ship I'd left was down to less than a minute for the second chase to start, and my fleet was already deepstriking.   :o
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Red.Queen on April 30, 2015, 06:39:23 AM
Destroying an Alarm increase AIP and HaP. Hacking it save AIP but decrease HaP, and hell I'm going to need some by the end of this game! Downloads are not cheap.

Hehehe true, true.  (Why not just use some nukes?  They're self-delivering HAP!  /NotATerribleIdeaReally)

Initial reaction to the 9/9 I just rolled:

>>C:\Red.Queen\format C:

AI starting unlocks are Eye Bots, Zenith Siege Engines, and Autocannon Minipods.  Why.  I think it got every fleetship with bonuses to Structural and/or Turret except for Zombards... at time 0:01.  The only way that could get worse is if its next unlock is Infiltrators or the missing Zombards.  (Prediction 1:  30 minutes from now, Black and White say "Guess what we just got!!!"  Prediction 2: I bet there's a double Wrath Lance again.  Prediction 3: I bet the other homeworld has a double Teuthida because why not.  Prediction 4: I am going to build a LOT of warheads.)

Initial guardian unlocks look just as awful.  Spotted Implosion, Needler, Sniper, and EMP already on the board.  Not a single wasted pick.  I don't think Black and White want to play with me any more.

*Sigh*

Well, it's not Aggressive Stupidity (TM) if I don't at least try...  (I'm going to get pwned!)

This game's been kinda weird. For more Nomad fun, N3 has an Armored Golem, but where things get funny is how the first two FS Shards both spawned on the same planet. I didn't notice until the Survey Ship I'd left was down to less than a minute for the second chase to start, and my fleet was already deepstriking.   :o

<lol>  Hope your fleet has a good alternate route home!
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Pumpkin on April 30, 2015, 10:33:25 AM
Outa Tracks MkII is out! Two hours of hotnotes about messing up with stealth and teleportation!
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Traveller on April 30, 2015, 09:21:23 PM
Well this "waves come from anywhere" game sure is interesting so far, I didn't do any optional stuff except marauders but I did bump auto progress up to 1 every 5 minutes.  God, that's uncomfortable, but it really changes the way I play.  No more slowly waiting for things to finish--I'm splitting my forces to take objectives faster, and suddenly distribution nodes and zenith ship caches are a no brainer.  I also realized I'd been playing with simple ships before, and bumped it up to the full loadout.  Took protector starships...having to put a lot more thought into my attacks since I can't afford to throw the i am spam sink at enemy planets then wait around to rebuild.  I'm pretty scared of threat this time, no idea what it'll be like on 7.6 compared to 7, but probably I'm paranoid for nothing...I think it doesn't get smarter until 8?

As luck would have it, there's also not many good core turret controllers.  This is going to be painful.  Might have to take a bunch of extra planets just so I can ensure quick travel.  And I think I found an answer to an earlier question I posted about when to use logistical command stations...when waves can come from anywhere, you can't even defend yourself with gravitational turrets, so they may well turn out to be more effective than military stations.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: Red.Queen on May 01, 2015, 06:29:31 AM
Well, Prediction 1 was sort of true, I forgot to list the other alternative of it unlocking Raid guardians in its next round, which it did.  Hate.  Took the Eyebots away from it already at least, hacking is rough on 9/9, I am going to have to reevaluate how much of that I will be doing.

Next stop is denying it any more Zenith Siege Engines -- those things are absolutely horrifying in enemy hands.  I had to warhead down a swarm of 70 of the things at the 45 minute mark, 1-2 salvos took out 50% of my double FF coverage and the splash damage alone ate 25% of my home command's health.  UNACCEPTABLE.  I think I hate these more than Spire Railclusters.

TL;DR -- Difficulty 9 has some teeth.

Outa Tracks MkII is out! Two hours of hotnotes about messing up with stealth and teleportation!

YES!  \o/

Gonna read that and do a little peanut-gallery commenting over there after I get some sleep (sun's coming up here).  Fingers crossed it's a quiet day at work so I don't have to wait until I get home.  :)

Well this "waves come from anywhere" game sure is interesting so far, I didn't do any optional stuff except marauders but I did bump auto progress up to 1 every 5 minutes.  God, that's uncomfortable, but it really changes the way I play.  No more slowly waiting for things to finish--I'm splitting my forces to take objectives faster, and suddenly distribution nodes and zenith ship caches are a no brainer.  I also realized I'd been playing with simple ships before, and bumped it up to the full loadout.  Took protector starships...having to put a lot more thought into my attacks since I can't afford to throw the i am spam sink at enemy planets then wait around to rebuild.  I'm pretty scared of threat this time, no idea what it'll be like on 7.6 compared to 7, but probably I'm paranoid for nothing...I think it doesn't get smarter until 8?

As luck would have it, there's also not many good core turret controllers.  This is going to be painful.  Might have to take a bunch of extra planets just so I can ensure quick travel.  And I think I found an answer to an earlier question I posted about when to use logistical command stations...when waves can come from anywhere, you can't even defend yourself with gravitational turrets, so they may well turn out to be more effective than military stations.

<steeple fingers>  Excellent.  Sounds like the combo is doing exactly what I was hoping for -- hope you're having fun!  :)

Protectors will serve you very, very well, they are incredibly powerful.

I think 8 is the last main breakpoint, mostly for unlocking a few more unit types and just making it a bit more aggressive in general.  7 actually unlocks 99% of the behaviors, so you're already seeing the majority of its logic.

I can't speak for 7.6 as I skipped from 7 to 8, but Threat on 8 (non-Preemption) didn't draw much of my attention until somewhere between AIP 400 and 500.  That was the point where it would rack up 2000-3000 strength over time and go stalk a planet.  And then eat a warhead once it bunched up sufficiently.  But your experience may vary, everyone plays differently.  :)

Look forward to hearing how the Logistics stations work out for you, I have yet to try them.
Title: Re: Out of your tracks
Post by: RabidDonkey on May 04, 2015, 11:24:50 AM
Warp Relay on a Nomad...the *possibilities*.  They are delicious.
I've got a Warp Relay sitting on Nomad 1 in my current game. I'm just waiting for a Nomad to float by an AI homeworld.

It's okay as far as it goes. Could stand to build production facilities there but the Nomad Beacon vampirized more energy than expected. Now what's REALLY fun is the Dyson Sphere spawned on Nomad 2.  :D

I think it's a good idea to use your nomad as a production facility. It's also important to keep it defended with mobile forces since the AI can easily "accidentally" zerg the warp rally on a nomad at a bad time (when it's just about to lose connection with your worlds) and your entire defense grid would go down. This happened to me and by the time I reestablished connection, the AI rammed a couple thousand ships from a CPA+extragalactic strike force through nomad 1 and down my backlines completely by-passing the 30+ fortresses I had on my choke. Bad times were had by all... lol.