Author Topic: New player with questions  (Read 3358 times)

Offline Kahuna

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Re: New player with questions
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2015, 11:48:03 AM »
If you don't have a different multiplexed repair unlock, I'm never gonna be convinced that miniforts aren't worth it.  I'm waaaay in the minority though, I accept that.
It is true the repair ability is very useful but I'd rather pay 2000 knowledge "extra" and unlock Mobile Space Docks which also have that ability. You can have up to 10 MSDs and they all have that repair ability. In addition to that all 10 MSDs combined build ships_really_fast so you can just keep spamming in a big fight if you have the metal.
Generally I unlock them when I'm setting up lots of unattended beachheads.  A bunch of turrets, a rebuilder drone, and some mini-forts to keep everything repaired.  Without them, attrition helps the AI wear down the beachhead much faster.
Well that's certainly true yes. Hmm yes that would make it possible to have permanent beachheads which would keep the Hybrid numbers low. That would be very useful if you have ships like Golems, Spirecraft or Spire capital ships which can't be loaded into Assault Transports to ignore all the hybrids and threat ships. A zenith power generator would probably be necessary though.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Kahuna

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Re: New player with questions
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2015, 11:51:25 AM »
I'm wondering, how do you think about normal fortresses?
Conclusion:
Fortresses, Turrets and Heavy Beam Cannons are all excellent choices. Which ones you should go for depends on your strategy, preference and situation.
-If you're going to use Fortresses you're going to have to use Economical Command Stations and unlock something that counters Polycrystal (Bombers) like Lightning, Missile or Sniper Turrets. Also Fortresses are only for small/medium size empires (+-7 planets including Homeworld). For small/medium sized empires because Fortresses have galactic cap and large empires have "too many" planets connected to the AI planets so the player would run out of Fortresses. Of course you can do gate raiding but you can't really control where the CPAs and Exos come from. Fortresses are very good for creating chokepoints.
-Turrets are always a good choice regardless of the size of your empire. If you have a small/medium size empire with a few or no chokepoints then Military Command Stations are a better choice. If you have a medium/large empire and have beachheads then you should go for the Economical Command Stations to keep up with the raising Energy costs. Turrets are really powerful in the early game because Mark II Turrets cost only 750 Knowledge. They're the #1 choice for low AIP
-Heavy Beam Cannons work well with Military Command Stations. Heavy Beam Cannons' Energy consumption isn't going to wreck your economy so you can manage without Economical Command Stations. Like Fortresses they have a galactic cap so they're only for small/medium size empires and chokepoints. HBCs don't use attack multipliers so they're good vs everything. Mark IV HBC is an absolute beast.
Fortresses are very strong but you have to find a way to deal with their energy cost and weakness to Polycrystal.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: New player with questions
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2015, 04:12:10 PM »
Turrets are really powerful in the early game because Mark II Turrets cost only 750 Knowledge. They're the #1 choice for low AIP
Interesting. I'm a low-AIP player and I always use almost my knowledge in fleet/starships. I'll try MkII turrets on low AIP, one day. Thanks!
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: New player with questions
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2015, 11:15:14 PM »
I guess I should have said #1_defensive_choice for low AIP games.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline DinosaurVet

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Re: New player with questions
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2015, 02:56:05 PM »
You guys have probably been busy, but did you notice any glaring problems with my save file?  Things I can improve upon?

I managed to clear the Core World, now it's on to the homeworld, but...man that's a lot of ships.  The strategic reserve does not mess around.

Offline Toranth

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Re: New player with questions
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2015, 09:23:49 PM »
You guys have probably been busy, but did you notice any glaring problems with my save file?  Things I can improve upon?

I managed to clear the Core World, now it's on to the homeworld, but...man that's a lot of ships.  The strategic reserve does not mess around.

I played around with your game a bit, and right off the top:  build more Space Docks!  Concentrate your Engineers!  Stop building Mercenaries!  Build more Matter Converters!  Build more Turrets on border worlds, and fewer on interior systems!  Beachhead surrounded AI systems you aren't going to capture!  Choose you Command Stations for a specific purpose, and change them when the need changes!

And, too late to do anything about it, but:  1)  Don't capture so many systems!  You've captured a fairly large number of systems for what you've accomplished.  Generally, whenever you think of capturing a system, you should be asking "What does THIS system give me that some other system couldn't instead?"
2)  Concentrate you Knowledge expenditures.  You've unlocked Mk III Harvesters, Mk III Military Stations, AND Mk II Econ stations.  Usually, it is better to concentrate on just one of these.  If you'd done just one of these to Mk III, you'd have 13,000 additional Knowledge to unlock Turrets and Fleetships.

In a little more detail:  When I loaded up the game, the very first thing I did was change your setting from "Build 5 engineers per system" to "build 1 Mk I engineer", and concentrated the rest on the Homeworld and Zimipu.  I also pulled back all other ships you had deployed elsewhere to Zimipu, replacing them with Turrets.  I built 6 Space Docks on Zimipu and 3 more on the Homeworld, setting aside one for high-cost ships, and the rest for the Mk I-III cheap ships.  This greatly helps speed up refleeting, because you are not forced to wait through a 20 second Mk V unit creation for each .5 second Mk I unit.

Once I had the fleet all together at Zimipu, I loaded up the Assault Transports and Normal Transports, and did a quick run to rescue the Rebel Colony.  This was when I realize you'd unlocked Mk III military stations, but hadn't placed them all.  Which led to a review of all you station placements.  You have 6 Mk I Military Command Stations sitting on interior systems.  They aren't doing anything there, and should be replaced by Econ stations.  Even a Mk I Econ station is a significant increase over a Mk I Mil station.
Anyway, placed a Mk III Mil station, built a bunch of turrets.  Went back through your systems, and scrapped most of your Force Fields.  Kilfo, Drether, Hasinitch all have FFs that can be MUCH better used elsewhere.  Also, 6 FFs in only useful when you KNOW whatever they are protecting will come under fire - something to be avoided.  One forcefield is all you really need, to cover against stray fire and escapees.  Instead, you should concentrate your defenses on making sure the AI never gets within range to shoot at your command station.

Once the Rebel Colony was rescued, I built out their fleet and replaced my units.  Beachheaded the Core World lightly to wear down the Reserves, and built 3 Mk III Lightning Warheads.
Finally, once the Reserves had been reduced and my Warheads were ready, I moved everything onto the AI Homeworld.  I used a Warhead to destroy the last of the Reserves, and just swept my Fleetball around in a loop destroying the Core Guardposts.  The Plasma Eye was annoying at the end there, but there were enough AI units that it was only shooting for the last minute or two before the Core Guardposts went down.  After that, a mere Mk III Fortress isn't worth talking about.
Thinking about it later, I should have brought along a Hacker and used some Sabotage to make things a little easier...

At that point, I stopped playing.  You are in an OK position - your primary problem is the AIP, and there simply isn't much you can do about that now.  I'd just start moving towards whichever of those last few unexplored worlds in the 2nd AI Homeworld, capturing every 3rd or 4th system and neutering the rest.  Once you find the 2nd homeworld, it's the same deal again:  Build a base, build up your fleet while clearing the Core World, then doing a final strike with everything you have (including Warheads).

Easy to say, at least :)

Offline DinosaurVet

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Re: New player with questions
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2015, 01:21:34 AM »
I played around with your game a bit, and right off the top:  build more Space Docks!  Concentrate your Engineers!  Stop building Mercenaries!  Build more Matter Converters!  Build more Turrets on border worlds, and fewer on interior systems!  Beachhead surrounded AI systems you aren't going to capture!  Choose you Command Stations for a specific purpose, and change them when the need changes!

Mercenaries aren't worth it I take it?  I had all that metal (and now all that spare energy from your suggestion about econ stations).  Shouldn't I use it on mercenary ships to have more ships to strike with?

By beachhead skipped systems you mean jump in and set up a turret line?

And, too late to do anything about it, but:  1)  Don't capture so many systems!  You've captured a fairly large number of systems for what you've accomplished.  Generally, whenever you think of capturing a system, you should be asking "What does THIS system give me that some other system couldn't instead?"
2)  Concentrate you Knowledge expenditures.  You've unlocked Mk III Harvesters, Mk III Military Stations, AND Mk II Econ stations.  Usually, it is better to concentrate on just one of these.  If you'd done just one of these to Mk III, you'd have 13,000 additional Knowledge to unlock Turrets and Fleetships.

Yeah sorry about that.  I kept getting attacked from my backfield so I thought I'd try clearing it.  I'd clear the guard posts and the warp gate, but they'd still send unnanounced ships from neutered planets.  Jimoat was a frequent offender.  I'll handle it better next time.

In a little more detail:  When I loaded up the game, the very first thing I did was change your setting from "Build 5 engineers per system" to "build 1 Mk I engineer", and concentrated the rest on the Homeworld and Zimipu.  I also pulled back all other ships you had deployed elsewhere to Zimipu, replacing them with Turrets.  I built 6 Space Docks on Zimipu and 3 more on the Homeworld, setting aside one for high-cost ships, and the rest for the Mk I-III cheap ships.  This greatly helps speed up refleeting, because you are not forced to wait through a 20 second Mk V unit creation for each .5 second Mk I unit.

Good idea.  I'll do that from now on.

Once I had the fleet all together at Zimipu, I loaded up the Assault Transports and Normal Transports, and did a quick run to rescue the Rebel Colony.  This was when I realize you'd unlocked Mk III military stations, but hadn't placed them all.  Which led to a review of all you station placements.  You have 6 Mk I Military Command Stations sitting on interior systems.  They aren't doing anything there, and should be replaced by Econ stations.  Even a Mk I Econ station is a significant increase over a Mk I Mil station.
Anyway, placed a Mk III Mil station, built a bunch of turrets.  Went back through your systems, and scrapped most of your Force Fields.  Kilfo, Drether, Hasinitch all have FFs that can be MUCH better used elsewhere.  Also, 6 FFs in only useful when you KNOW whatever they are protecting will come under fire - something to be avoided.  One forcefield is all you really need, to cover against stray fire and escapees.  Instead, you should concentrate your defenses on making sure the AI never gets within range to shoot at your command station.

Sorry about that.  Those were old defense points/irreplaceables and I forgot to switch them over once the front line moved on.   I did have a question about the forcefields though.  Is it just a matter of more tractor beam turrets to hold AI ships back?  Since they're aren't enough to go around do people just scrap tractor turrets in systems not under attack and put them in systems where you know they're going to be throwing 4,000 ships? 

Akiapegar and Toothnomurd are opposite defense strategies.  I used them to experiment.  Which seems better?  Both have only one hostile wormhole, one defends at the wormhole the other defends at the station.  I constantly have to pull Toothnomurd out of the fire, but Akiapegar has held against giant waves by itself so I'd go with defending at the wormhole, but I'm open to hear your thoughts.

Once the Rebel Colony was rescued, I built out their fleet and replaced my units.  Beachheaded the Core World lightly to wear down the Reserves, and built 3 Mk III Lightning Warheads.
Finally, once the Reserves had been reduced and my Warheads were ready, I moved everything onto the AI Homeworld.  I used a Warhead to destroy the last of the Reserves, and just swept my Fleetball around in a loop destroying the Core Guardposts.  The Plasma Eye was annoying at the end there, but there were enough AI units that it was only shooting for the last minute or two before the Core Guardposts went down.  After that, a mere Mk III Fortress isn't worth talking about.
Thinking about it later, I should have brought along a Hacker and used some Sabotage to make things a little easier...

I'm not sure how you did this.  I thought the AI would always leave 70% of the reserve no matter what you did to a Core world.  I thought you had to face the last 70% on the homeworld.

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Offline Toranth

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Re: New player with questions
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2015, 10:21:00 AM »
I played around with your game a bit, and right off the top:  build more Space Docks!  Concentrate your Engineers!  Stop building Mercenaries!  Build more Matter Converters!  Build more Turrets on border worlds, and fewer on interior systems!  Beachhead surrounded AI systems you aren't going to capture!  Choose you Command Stations for a specific purpose, and change them when the need changes!
Mercenaries aren't worth it I take it?  I had all that metal (and now all that spare energy from your suggestion about econ stations).  Shouldn't I use it on mercenary ships to have more ships to strike with?
Generally, no.  Mercenary units cost 10x the cost of the equivalent player unit.  Mercenary Enclaves are worth it.  Mercenary Parasites are OK, due to special mechanics about how Mk interacts with reclaiming units.  Everything else is less than efficient.  If you are already at you metal cap, then sure.  But never build a Mercenary unit over something else.
Second, because of their cost, it is best to be more careful with them.  I normally leave all Mercs on my Homeworld, as a final "Win or Die" reserve.  Only in the end game do they get spent.

Just as a quick note, it is possible to have the game auto-manage keeping a metal reserve.  If you assign the Mercenary Dock to a control group (I usually use Group 9), you can go to the Controls screen, flip to the Control-Group-Specific tab, select your group, and put a number in the "Suspend spending if Resources Less Than" box.  I usually set that number to about 90% of my max resources, going back periodically to update as I grow.

By beachhead skipped systems you mean jump in and set up a turret line?
Correct.  A group of turrets will kill the AI reinforcements as they spawn, never giving them enough time to build up threat to attack you.


Yeah sorry about that.  I kept getting attacked from my backfield so I thought I'd try clearing it.  I'd clear the guard posts and the warp gate, but they'd still send unnanounced ships from neutered planets.  Jimoat was a frequent offender.  I'll handle it better next time.
Just a note on mechanics and terminology as used around here.  A Wave is an announced group of ships sent to the wormhole of a single specific targeted human system.  These must originate from Warp Gates.  What you were experiencing was called Threat, or border-aggression.  Basically, after you cleared the AI system, it still got reinforcements.  However, without Guardposts to protect, those AI ships become free-roaming "Threat" (you can see the total Threat in the galaxy in the upper right).  When there got to be enough of those, it was stronger than your neighboring systems.  At that point, it just piles in.  If you keep down the number of AI units in that system, or keep enough turrets in your neighboring systems, it won't send the Threat in.


Akiapegar and Toothnomurd are opposite defense strategies.  I used them to experiment.  Which seems better?  Both have only one hostile wormhole, one defends at the wormhole the other defends at the station.  I constantly have to pull Toothnomurd out of the fire, but Akiapegar has held against giant waves by itself so I'd go with defending at the wormhole, but I'm open to hear your thoughts.
Toothnomurd is a MUCH better defensive set up than Akiapegar.  Akiapegar will drop a hammer on the AI units as soon as they enter the system, but if there are enough to get away from the wormhole, your system is toast.
Toothnomurd, on the other hand, makes all the AI ships traverse the entire system, getting shot by Snipers, Missile Turrets, running through Mines, all before it finally reaches something it wants to attack.  And while the AI is sitting there pounding on your ForceFields, your turrets are still shooting at it.
The only minor issue I had with Toothnomurd is the way you spread your Sniper and Spiders out in wings.  This is not good, as it distracts the AI units.  Some of them go off-course to attack those, and escape the mines, tractors, and other turrets.  It is better to concentrate your Snipers, close to your Command Station but not under FF.
If you haven't, I suggest you read Kahuna's guide to defense.  There's a link is his sig.  He explains in excellent detail not only what, but why.


I'm not sure how you did this.  I thought the AI would always leave 70% of the reserve no matter what you did to a Core world.  I thought you had to face the last 70% on the homeworld.
You are correct.  But by destroying the relatively small group of 30% of the reserve on the Core World, the AI cannot deploy it on the Homeworld.  If you just zoom though, ignoring those units, they will undeploy and redeploy back on the Homeworld.
Reserve size is based on AIP, but it is galaxy wide for each AI player.  Reducing it in one place reduces it in all.  At least, until it recharges, which takes a few hours.
Actually, just noticed it didn't actually matter - The Core World is AI 1, the Homeworld is AI 2.  Ah, well.  I always use different colors for the AIs when I play, so I thought Red AI = Red AI.  Oops.

Offline DinosaurVet

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Re: New player with questions
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2015, 03:31:49 AM »
I did it!  I cleared out both AI homeworlds!  Thanks for the help that was great.  I was using a strategy of jumping in with my fleet and clearing as much as I could then retreating before I was overwhelmed.  I'd have reinforcements streaming in and i'd keep making these glancing attacks until all the guard posts were down.

 The only strange thing was that it kept telling me that an Exo galactic strike force was coming.  The timer counts down and  I kept on the lookout for huge nasty fleets, but nothing ever appeared. What gives?