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Games => AI War Classic => AI War Classic - Strategy Discussion => Topic started by: carldong on November 26, 2015, 02:44:39 AM

Title: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: carldong on November 26, 2015, 02:44:39 AM
I am doing a gameplay on 6/6 Fallen Spire 4/10 (First time). I set up an enormously powerful (what I think) empire in a cluster map with two entry point. When I finished the first city hub, there were multiple exo warnings --- which I expect to strike everytime. However, it didn't come. Many these warning later, when I was expanding my empire to hopefully reduce to one entry point, I lost my spirecraft jumpship with all kinds of powerful stuff inside due to some stupid mistakes I made in clearing threatfleet in the 4 planets I cleared to colonize. I cleared some of my old front line defence and moving defences to new place, suddenly all kinds of ships came and fortunately my engineer team of 40 MkIIIs popped up my entire defence in seconds (Wow! Fortress built in 10 seconds!)--- and turned the fleet into scrap.
Now my question is, isn't Exo's emerge from edge of galaxy? Why do they behave like CPAs?
I got "massive AI ships are en route" warning right before the attack. Is that related?
BTW, the single entry point is right next to a, Core World... Thanks, RNG! I had to spend 5000 K on warp jammers. Still, better than two entry points since I've got Fallen Spire ships
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: TheVampire100 on November 26, 2015, 03:18:31 AM
Exogalactic forces are always coming directly from the AI Homeworlds.So they act similiar to Crossplanet Attacks. If you haven't seen them already, Ai Homeworlds have a special exogalactiv wormhole that is conencted to some unknown area out of this galaxy (and therefor out of your reach). The AI uses these wormholes for their special strikeforces when it needs them. Strikeforces travel fromt he Ai homeworld DIRECTLY to your homeworld (or whatever target they have at the moment) and will ignore most commandstations and structures on their way. That makes them especially dangerous because you cannot simply block them with your standard defenses. On the other hand it also gives you plenty of time to form a counter-operation.
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: carldong on November 26, 2015, 03:37:50 AM
Exogalactic forces are always coming directly from the AI Homeworlds.So they act similiar to Crossplanet Attacks. If you haven't seen them already, Ai Homeworlds have a special exogalactiv wormhole that is conencted to some unknown area out of this galaxy (and therefor out of your reach). The AI uses these wormholes for their special strikeforces when it needs them. Strikeforces travel fromt he Ai homeworld DIRECTLY to your homeworld (or whatever target they have at the moment) and will ignore most commandstations and structures on their way. That makes them especially dangerous because you cannot simply block them with your standard defenses. On the other hand it also gives you plenty of time to form a counter-operation.

Yeah, at the beginning of the gameplay I joked that 6/6 is too easy... Then the Exo after the second city hub broke right through my outpost, killed my "Invincible Fleet" built up on Spirecraft + Spire FF/DD + Flagship + Riot + Jumpship supported by MkI Fortress + two Mini Fortresses and my awesome Engineering team... That is at least an order of magnitude more ships, and I see Dire Gardians, more Spirecraft and stuff... Thankfully I rescued my engineer team and have my liquid defence rebuilt on my old outpost (fortunately I didn't completely scrap it, just the force fields), and stopped the Exo there.

Now I unlocked MkIII Fortress. THAT SHOULD HELP!
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: carldong on November 26, 2015, 03:42:51 AM
...

That makes them especially dangerous because you cannot simply block them with your standard defenses. On the other hand it also gives you plenty of time to form a counter-operation.

Actually, no... I have a cluster map, and I picked the cluster mostly made of 2 wormholes, so the Strikeforce has to break through every single minefield, turrets, FRD Spacedocks, fortresses, city defence, multiple shields covering wormholes, and many other things.

And, wow, Mini-Fortresses are not weak in defense: When you run out of fortresses, you can still get quite a lot of repairing power for your turrets, and make them survive much longer.

Note: My (Logistical III) command stations are always killed by Plasma Siege Starships.

Why Logistical III? Teleporting Raids, and free metal
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: Aklyon on November 26, 2015, 10:19:51 AM
In addition, FS exos get stronger because the game is leaving the guerilla war behind as you build up more Spire cities and Spire Fleet ships. It doesn't hurt to build as many ships as possible around your core of modular starships & fortresses.
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: carldong on November 26, 2015, 12:34:20 PM
In addition, FS exos get stronger because the game is leaving the guerilla war behind as you build up more Spire cities and Spire Fleet ships. It doesn't hurt to build as many ships as possible around your core of modular starships & fortresses.

All my "normal" fleet are auto built and FRD in my branch world after the single entry world. However, since the crucial Z power generator is so close to the entry (two hops), I don't quite dare to make the energy below 600K (Now I am running around 800K-500K, depending on situation). However, it looks like my defence is solid enough since the Exos split up at two branches, so I only need to deal with half of them on each branch, with my planetary capped turrets.

Plus, I stack city hub, fleet, starships, Spirecrafts, missiles, Spire fleet, etc. on my branch world toward my economic line

PS. AI Homeworld is just two hops away. The Exos come really quick but they are really just sending metal to me for now(so much scrap! with Logistical III). Most intense and exciting game, though: First time EVER I see a wave of 10K ships (total)
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: carldong on November 26, 2015, 06:13:05 PM
Wow, I totally underestimated the 6/6 AI... It coordinates a CPA, a huge reinforcement wave, an Exo, and the extra Exo when I move the shard all together... It even broke through the city hub defence line.
The interesting thing about this map is that one AI Homeworld is just two hops away, while the other is totally the other side. So when it says one Exo wave, it really mean two: half strength, double frequency.
And it is the same for CPAs
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: Pumpkin on November 27, 2015, 10:20:15 AM
Wow, I totally underestimated the 6/6 AI...
Never underestimate an AI. Never.

Little story:
My first win was on 5/5. When I saw the tips "This is your first AI War game. Use difficulty 7/7 if you're familiar with RTS games", I thought: "Of course, I'm familiar. Let's do this!" After a dozen of looses on 7/7 then 6/6, I managed to understand the game flow on 5/5 and dug my way back to "RTS familiar" level. So yes: AI War at 6/6 may be dire for someone that would misunderstand the flow of the game. Or for one that would crack the 500 AIP in a Fallen Spire campaign. :P

More seriously, Carldong. How high is your AIP?

EDIT:
Ow, I didn't read your post on the Fortress thread. 400 AIP? :o You're doomed. :D 
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: Aklyon on November 27, 2015, 10:28:44 AM
In FS? 400 AIP doesn't sound too doomed yet. Though it would be otherwise.
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: Pumpkin on November 27, 2015, 11:02:23 AM
In FS? 400 AIP doesn't sound too doomed yet. Though it would be otherwise.
Y'know, that was the damn-low AIP player speaking. 150 AIP is high to me! ;)
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: carldong on November 27, 2015, 12:54:38 PM
In FS? 400 AIP doesn't sound too doomed yet. Though it would be otherwise.
Y'know, that was the damn-low AIP player speaking. 150 AIP is high to me! ;)

About 350 now. Way above what I normally like. Worse, I need more K for Galactic Capitol stuff... Which I have no prior knowledge for (no pun intended), and a big surprise!

My "normal" defences just keep breaking... I spent too much K on using Logistical III to stop teleporting raiders, and so unfortunate that once I warp jammed the choke point they no longer send those things in, just normal missile frigates.

On the up side, 40%(or 30?) salvage rate means I can build stuff like crazy after each exo wave: I typically get 20000 metal/s.

... Except that I am always capped with metal and there is just nothing else I could build. Except when my defence break and I need to fix a planet of turrets
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: Aklyon on November 27, 2015, 01:15:26 PM
Try replacing it with a Mil 3 then, if you have the K available.
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: Kahuna on November 27, 2015, 01:37:24 PM
Exogalactic forces are always coming directly from the AI Homeworlds.
I'm pretty sure they spawn on any AI planet >1 hops away from human or neutral planets. CPAs too.
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: Toranth on November 27, 2015, 03:03:19 PM
Exogalactic forces are always coming directly from the AI Homeworlds.
I'm pretty sure they spawn on any AI planet >1 hops away from human or neutral planets. CPAs too.
Any place there is a Warp Gate, I think.  You used to be able to gate-raid to control Exowaves.  In fact, that was a big part of winning 10/10 Fallen Spire on most maps.
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: Pumpkin on November 27, 2015, 04:33:47 PM
Exogalactic forces are always coming directly from the AI Homeworlds.
I'm pretty sure they spawn on any AI planet >1 hops away from human or neutral planets. CPAs too.
Any place there is a Warp Gate, I think.  You used to be able to gate-raid to control Exowaves.  In fact, that was a big part of winning 10/10 Fallen Spire on most maps.
Yep. Fallen Spire's Exowaves are very different from counter-Golem and Spirecraft Exowaves. These spawn from AI Homeworlds.
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: carldong on November 27, 2015, 08:52:01 PM
Try replacing it with a Mil 3 then, if you have the K available.

No K is actually my real issue now. Now I decide to give my Spire fleet a try and kill that first AI's homeworld that basically blocks my path.

Building Warheads now... Watch for it, dam AI!

Not sure if it is a good plan. I decide to first ram down everything in the Core world (Transports + Mini Rams to assassinate them), silently pass my Cloaker Starships (I only get MkI) with Ltn Warheads, Armored Warheads, and Spirecraft Martyrs through wormhole with a whole bunch of Scouts and Scout Starships, and probably some SC Shield Bearers, and hopefully if I understand correctly, cloaking boosters should keep them alive as long as possible. Then Armor down the guard posts, blow up strategic reserve and/or SF as much as I can, send through my regular fleet and starship fleet in transports, Fallen Spire fleet with GalEx one-way delivery system (i.e Jumpships) and/or several SC Penetrators and one shot the rest of the guard posts and hopefully the AI Home Command Station.

There are certain question though. Does Martyrs target buildings? I tested in another game and it seems that I cannot target Command Stations with it, and doesn't damage it when it explodes. I am not worried about "limited numbers" of them because I have so many asteroids in my empire that all I worry about is their energy consumption.

No nukes, of course. I am still going after the FS campaign after killing this roadblock, and I want any K and resources from any planets I take. I hope the AIP from 8 guard posts + Home CS + 100AIP won't push the difficulty too far.

Looks like it is not enough to tech up the AI to MkIII. So still there is hope
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: carldong on December 04, 2015, 07:33:40 PM
I heard that Exos are immune to Grav unless leading ship is destroyed. Is that true?
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: Toranth on December 04, 2015, 08:31:09 PM
I heard that Exos are immune to Grav unless leading ship is destroyed. Is that true?
Not exactly.  The lead ship sets the speed for all other units in that Exowave - every other unit gets a speed of the lead unit's speed + 5.  When the lead unit is a unit, like a Golem or Spirecraft, that is immune to Gravity effects, then all the other units in the Exowave gain the same benefit.  If the lead unit is killed, the other units become free threat, and are impacted by gravity speed reductions as normal.
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: carldong on December 04, 2015, 08:58:40 PM
I heard that Exos are immune to Grav unless leading ship is destroyed. Is that true?
Not exactly.  The lead ship sets the speed for all other units in that Exowave - every other unit gets a speed of the lead unit's speed + 5.  When the lead unit is a unit, like a Golem or Spirecraft, that is immune to Gravity effects, then all the other units in the Exowave gain the same benefit.  If the lead unit is killed, the other units become free threat, and are impacted by gravity speed reductions as normal.

So I would like to snipe the lead first. However, it just mixes up inside the fleetball (or more accurately, fleetline), and I can't find it. Although it is usually the first one to hit Minefields
Title: Re: Can someone explain the Exogalactic Strikeforce in Fallen Spire?
Post by: Toranth on December 04, 2015, 09:39:12 PM
I heard that Exos are immune to Grav unless leading ship is destroyed. Is that true?
Not exactly.  The lead ship sets the speed for all other units in that Exowave - every other unit gets a speed of the lead unit's speed + 5.  When the lead unit is a unit, like a Golem or Spirecraft, that is immune to Gravity effects, then all the other units in the Exowave gain the same benefit.  If the lead unit is killed, the other units become free threat, and are impacted by gravity speed reductions as normal.
So I would like to snipe the lead first. However, it just mixes up inside the fleetball (or more accurately, fleetline), and I can't find it. Although it is usually the first one to hit Minefields
The lead ship will always be the biggest, nastiest ship in the Exowave.  The Golem, highest mark Spirecraft or Hunter/Killer, or Mothership will be the leader in those cases.
There's an article here about how Exowaves work in general (https://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War:How_Exogalactic_Strikeforces_Work), and that article links to a Spoiler-heavy Fallen Spire page that discusses exactly how ships are chosen for an Exowave.
The articles are old, but I believe they are still accurate.