Author Topic: Am I doing this right?  (Read 3188 times)

Offline CaptainTaz

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Am I doing this right?
« on: May 24, 2015, 06:59:27 PM »
So, I've owned the game for a while, and Have been casually playing on difficulty 6 lately (I know, people say the game sucks below 7, but I'm a very casual video-game player, and the AI gives me a good ass kicking as-is, so I think I'm on my level). I heavily rely on spire ships (w rails, highest I can stick in each slot) and my champion(s, set as Spire with ion/rail spam w 3 shields) as my offensive fleet, and use bottlenecks  (Station parked at wormhole defended by forcefields and turret spam) and my remaining fleet to defend while I attack the AI/obtain objectives.

I normally have 1 AI with Hybrid 5, Adv Hybrid 1, and the other Astrotrain 5. I also use almost all the different minor factions (I'm still experimenting, but I always have the traders, fallen spire, spire civillians, golems(Botnet too) on easy, Human murauders, human resistance, dyson sphere, nomad planets (With only 1 nomad), Exodian blade (Still have not rescued it...), rocket corps, roaming enclaves (10), dark spire (4-6), and Easy spirecraft.) I also use alt chap progress (10) and Nemesis (3) If it wasn't obvious, I have all of the current expansions. Only ship type I have not enabled is the swallowers, because I'm unsure of them.

My strategy works pretty well until the late-game when I hit AI tier 3... and then hell breaks loose when the AI sends forces after forces after forces....

I'm dying to trigger a showdown and use the blade to help me kill the motherships that spawn (and while they're distracted, use the nomad beacon to turn one of their homes to pulp after I get the achievement), an use the 'invincible' spire fleet of mine to eliminate the remaining forces. (I wanna get that 120 planet control achievement badly....)

For my defensive, I use lots of turret spam at the wormhole/military base under forcefields (Millitary base gives 100% attack under forcefields according to in-game text), and area mines using the line placed between the wormhole and my station, using black hole machines to protect from infiltrators.

I position my military ship construction hub at an even distance between all of my bottlenecks (Which normally end up being two) for easy deployment. My special forces hub (Golem, spire, and other supership parking) is always one hop from it, and my scouting prduction facilities are also one hop out.

I have played about 150 hours, and only won once (2 lvl 5 coward/chivalric AI using the alternate Spire victory.) and have played multiple games with different settings. Most end up with me in a deadlock unable to go far without getting killed, or I overextend myself trying to claim all of the core shield generators or showdown devices and die from the AI getting so pissed off they send hell itself to floor me.

I'm hoping to learn some general tips, not to become hardcore, but just so I can avoid my doom and actually experience everything I can in the game ^^; Thank you for taking the time to read this :)
Just that guy who hides behind walls of death hoping that they stay up.

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2015, 07:35:00 PM »
  • what map style are you using?
  • What is the smallest number of systems you can defend while still completely blocking the AI from getting to your home system?
  • The AI's Exo-waves get deadlier over time. If you're going to 150 hours on the clock, things are going to get nasty.
  • Do you have Spire Cities over every choke wormhole?
Things that are useful:
  • Whenever you can: SEIZE THE INITIATIVE!
  • On the other hand, make sure your Spire Shard Reactors and Spire Habitation Centers are fully equipped before you trigger anything scary.
  • Champions are disposable. If you need to run your S-S-BB into a superfortress five times in ten minutes to kill it, you can just do that.
  • Spire Cities over every choke
  • The most important modules on Fallen Spire things are the shields.
  • Assault Transports to make your Spire Fleet mobile
  • On systems outside your chokes, don't put the command station near the wormhole -- put it away from the paths between wormholes so that Exo-waves don't kill it
  • An entire cap of Econ-3 and Econ-2 command stations behind your chokes
  • A Mil-3 command station on every choke.
Here is a save from shortly before I blew up the first AI homeworld. I led off with my champion blowing up the OMD, Then I sent in the Spire Fleet in an assault transport.

Code: [Select]
while ( has_guardposts ( $AIHW ) ) {
    Pause
    Identify the scariest target in the system, and order the AT to drive right next to it, then unpause
    Pause as soon as the AT is near the target
    Give unload order, then unpause-repause
    Order fleet to shoot the target, then unpause
    Pause as soon as the target is dead
    Order fleet to get back in the lunchbox, then unpause
    Pause as soon as fleet is loaded
}
Order AT to Command Station, then unpause
Pause when in range
Give unload order, then unpause-repause
Order fleet to attack command station, and wait about a minute for the forcefields to evaporate along with the command station
Either pull fleet back or go for targets of opportunity
My fleet wiped once, but overall things went pretty well.

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2015, 07:50:19 PM »
  • what map style are you using?
  • What is the smallest number of systems you can defend while still completely blocking the AI from getting to your home system?
  • The AI's Exo-waves get deadlier over time. If you're going to 150 hours on the clock, things are going to get nasty.
  • Do you have Spire Cities over every choke wormhole?

Mainly encapsulated (The round one with the groups in the center, preferably one where I can stick my homeworlds in one and use the small breathing room as choke points, claiming the inside of the section as easily defended planets. I always play with 120 planets.

I've had 25-30 managed at once.

longest game I've played was about 40-some hours In-game-time (it was that level 5 one)

yes, I plan my bases that way to ensure I get 5 generators (Most turret points) there.

Things that are useful:
  • Whenever you can: SEIZE THE INITIATIVE!
  • On the other hand, make sure your Spire Shard Reactors and Spire Habitation Centers are fully equipped before you trigger anything scary.
  • Champions are disposable. If you need to run your S-S-BB into a superfortress five times in ten minutes to kill it, you can just do that.
  • Spire Cities over every choke
  • The most important modules on Fallen Spire things are the shields.
  • Assault Transports to make your Spire Fleet mobile
  • On systems outside your chokes, don't put the command station near the wormhole -- put it away from the paths between wormholes so that Exo-waves don't kill it
  • An entire cap of Econ-3 and Econ-2 command stations behind your chokes
  • A Mil-3 command station on every choke.
Here is a save from shortly before I blew up the first AI homeworld. I led off with my champion blowing up the OMD, Then I sent in the Spire Fleet in an assault transport.

Could i get a bit of clarity on the first one?

2,3,4, 7 and 8 are ones I do

5, is that actually possible? can you actually put those large spire fleet ships in that? o_O

6, good to know.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 07:52:21 PM by CaptainTaz »
Just that guy who hides behind walls of death hoping that they stay up.

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2015, 08:01:39 PM »
  • what map style are you using?
  • What is the smallest number of systems you can defend while still completely blocking the AI from getting to your home system?
  • The AI's Exo-waves get deadlier over time. If you're going to 150 hours on the clock, things are going to get nasty.
  • Do you have Spire Cities over every choke wormhole?

Mainly encapsulated (The round one with the groups in the center, preferably one where I can stick my homeworlds in one and use the small breathing room as choke points, claiming the inside of the section as easily defended planets. I always play with 120 planets.

I've had 25-30 managed at once.
Could you upload an example of a game-in-progress?

Quote
Could i get a bit of clarity on the first one?
Every second sooner you get things done is a second the AI doesn't get to build Exo-waves, Special Forces, and other nasty stuff.

Quote
5, is that actually possible? can you actually put those large spire fleet ships in that? o_O
Yes, at least up through cruiser. I haven't tried to put battleships in lunchboxes, because it's been so long since I sent a FS battleship outside my territory.

---

Oh, two more things:
  • If it's not tremendously inconvenient, clear out the threatfleet and special forces as much as possible. The less assets the AI has wandering around where you're not looking, the better your attacks will go.
  • I'm sure you already know this, but getting your FS fleet wiped is generally kind of bad, and should be avoided.

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2015, 09:11:14 PM »
Could i get a bit of clarity on the first one?
Every second sooner you get things done is a second the AI doesn't get to build Exo-waves, Special Forces, and other nasty stuff.

Yes, at least up through cruiser. I haven't tried to put battleships in lunchboxes, because it's been so long since I sent a FS battleship outside my territory.

---

Oh, two more things:
  • If it's not tremendously inconvenient, clear out the threatfleet and special forces as much as possible. The less assets the AI has wandering around where you're not looking, the better your attacks will go.
  • I'm sure you already know this, but getting your FS fleet wiped is generally kind of bad, and should be avoided.
[/quote]

those kinda go together, the threatfleet and spire. I literally can send a full spire fleet anywhere on the map and they live (The lowest two tiers do die a lot, but the top 3 are just unkillable)

Here's a pic of a recently (Yesterday) abandoned game after I tried to rush for the blade (P9 on the right) (all planets claimed minus the one at the top were my base for almost the entire game, the unclaimed are ones I plowed through  and the showdowns (P5s) the P3 markers are spire civilians which I liberated over the course of the game with some deepsrtiking. The Nomad planet has been turning out to be counter-productive, as the AI just keeps mobbing it on every pass of the homeworld (and yes, I tried to kill the homeworld with it, the nomad wouldn't move fast enough x_x) I do not have a save before the strike (Stupid me, I know).
I like having two homeworlds to practice for when I'm playing with friends, because I normally manage the defensive.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=448797364

Pic of one of my bottlenecks, Area mines are what I'm using. (Dont mind the random ships sorta floating, they're fresh reclaims)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=448797442

Closeup of bottleneck (Ships moved aside) I normally either have a super and modular forts, or regular and modular forts. note how I have 5 spire generators and 1 habitation (For level 2)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=448797458

Dyson planet, Just a bit of defense in case the AI decides to make it angry
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=448797475

Nomad defenses (Don't mind that extra fleet... ^^;) Using mercs (When they're not dead) to enforce because I had the excess energy/metal production to do so. from here I deployed scout forces easier so I had a lot more vision. (This particular game I was being a cheatso and turned off enemy waves, it would have probably been hell if I left that on...)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=448797495

Closeup
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=448797513


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Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2015, 09:18:07 PM »
Oh, I just noticed something: Do you have freestanding forcefields over your cities?

Because that's bad.

The freestanding forcefields you can build from your command station reduce the damage dealt by your ships under them to 1/4 normal.

EDIT: The forcefields I'm talking about are seven, all of which use the pyramid icon on scout intel:
  • Force Field Generator - Player Home
  • Force Field Generator
  • Force Field Generator Mark II
  • Force Field Generator Mark III
  • Hardened Force Field Generator
  • Hardened Force Field Generator Mark II
  • Hardened Force Field Generator Mark III
EDIT 2: Looking at the HP numbers, you probably don't even care about the HP from the freestanding forcefields: 6x Spire City Shield Generator II: 6x 2,400,000 HP = 72 marks of freestanding forcefield = 12 of each type of unhardened freestanding forcefield that you can build. Which is almost literally "all of them" on a 2-homeworld setup.

Also, I'm only seeing Mk2 military command stations, which, combined with the forcefield thing, means that you're sacrificing more than 80% of your firepower. No wonder you're having trouble.

You're also putting a bunch of gravity turrets right next to each other, which makes no sense to me.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 09:36:25 PM by Radiant Phoenix »

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2015, 09:29:39 PM »
Oh, I just noticed something: Do you have freestanding forcefields over your cities?

Because that's bad.

The freestanding forcefields you can build from your command station reduce the damage dealt by your ships under them to 1/4 normal.

EDIT: The forcefields I'm talking about are seven, all of which use the pyramid icon on scout intel:
  • Force Field Generator - Player Home
  • Force Field Generator
  • Force Field Generator Mark II
  • Force Field Generator Mark III
  • Hardened Force Field Generator
  • Hardened Force Field Generator Mark II
  • Hardened Force Field Generator Mark III

yes, I'm using them, but that's negated with the millitary command station, as seen in the bottom tan line of their buffs;
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=448805951
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Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2015, 09:37:12 PM »
I'm pretty sure that it's only the Military Command Station itself that does full damage under glass.

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2015, 09:38:03 PM »
I'm pretty sure that it's only the Military Command Station itself that does full damage under glass.

oh....

well....

There's my problem x_x

*Gets out lighter*

Sorry current game, but it's your time...
Just that guy who hides behind walls of death hoping that they stay up.

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2015, 09:43:36 PM »
The problem can be fixed in a second of clock-time by scrapping the freestanding forcefields.

Also, Mil3 vs Mil2 is a significant damage upgrade.

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2015, 09:46:40 PM »
The problem can be fixed in a second of clock-time by scrapping the freestanding forcefields.

Also, Mil3 vs Mil2 is a significant damage upgrade.

But if I scrap the forcefields, that leaves the station and my zenith support structures defenseless....
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Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2015, 09:51:42 PM »
You don't have spire city forcefields?

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2015, 09:58:44 PM »
You don't have spire city forcefields?

yeah, but theydon't last forever.

Also, they AI always dives for my stations, ignoring the turrets unless they are physically blocking them, meaning that they'll just hit the forcefields enough to break my devices, then explode into my undefended base...

Plus, I build the bottlenecks first, then later apply the spire when I obtain them (using the bottlenecks to fight off the impending doom)
Just that guy who hides behind walls of death hoping that they stay up.

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2015, 10:10:58 PM »
I usually put my first city on the primary choke, and then hold that for the rest of the game. In the game I uploaded, I eventually created an outer choke, after clearing out the central cluster.

But, anyway, I think I sensible plan is this:
  • Fortify the choke normally -- turrets and fortresses out of the glass, Mk3 milcom under glass, flak and lightning turrets probably under glass, because they are at 3/4 power under forcefields rather than 1/4.
  • Build the hub in about a minute using a huge pile of engineers
  • Build the city structures with only the shield pre-queued
  • Once several of the city shields are up, remove the freestanding shields, and tell the fortresses to move to under the forcefield
  • Start building the sniper modules now
  • Start scrapping and rebuilding the turrets under the city shields

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2015, 10:37:49 AM »
Hey! Don't make long topics in less than one day while I'm away!  :P

Well, it's a bit late, but: welcome. Radiant Phoenix has already handled most of your questions, I feel I'll be of no help here.

Quote
Have been casually playing on difficulty 6 lately (I know, people say the game sucks below 7, but I'm a very casual video-game player, and the AI gives me a good ass kicking as-is, so I think I'm on my level)
Y'know, I was just out of silver from Star Craft II (being pissed by this game, on the long run) and read "take difficulty 7 if you're a good RTS player". I answer "sure I'm a not-so-bad RTS player; bring it on!"
...
How foolish I was. I needed to sit on my pride and downgrade the difficulty to 5 to have my first win. Then I understood the game and slowly climbed back (I'm now comfortable on 7/7 and challenged at 8/8). So don't be shy about the difficulty. If you feel challenged, then this is your level, no matter the number or the other players.


Quote
I normally have 1 AI with Hybrid 5, Adv Hybrid 1, and the other Astrotrain 5. I also use almost all the different minor factions
:o
Quite impressive for a first game. Try some vanilla game, one day. You know, spire and golems are like a drug. I had a hard time winning a 7/7 game without golems until I re-learned how to assault a homeworld. We have a player here on the forum (Red.Queen, you'll meet him* sooner or latter) who set auto-AIP to 1 per 5 minutes (instead of 1 per 30 minutes) for his* first game and now can't play with lower setup. ^^

* or "her", I realized I don't know.

TL;DR: Welcome!
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.