Arcen Games

Games => AI War Classic => AI War Classic - After Action Reports => Topic started by: Mad Rubicant on May 12, 2014, 09:54:47 PM

Title: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on May 12, 2014, 09:54:47 PM
I think it's time for something entertaining.
8/8 Special Forces Captain/Special Forces Captain
H/K plot.
80 planet X map, taking the center spot.
The "What AIP memo?" challenge.

Apart from that, I'll have:
Low caps
Resistance Fighters 4/10
Roaming Enclaves 4/10
Zenith Trader

Bonus ship is Lightning Torpedo Frigate
Alt-Champion Progress-Nemesis 5/10

Schizo waves
H/K 4/10-4/10

Things that are tempting, but I'll save for another time:
Dark Spire
Hybrids/Advanced Hybrids
Shark
Neinzul Rocketry Corps



First step is to unlock EMP and Area Mines, and cover my homeworld in them. I get the feeling that I'll have SF trains going across a lot.
Second unlock is Mil 2 Stations and Scout IIs, last is Mil 3 Stations. I need that defense.

Initial scouting reveals that AI 2 has EMP guardians. This should be fun.

4:26: The trader shows up. I buy out his stock: Armor Booster/Inhibitor, Jammer II, 2 OMDs, and a ZPG.

6:00: First wave, 41 ships

9:00: Second wave, 100 ships. Interesting difference there.

14:00: I've managed to find both core worlds. Interestingly enough, the two homeworlds are in the same arm of the X. The big arm, so I'll probably be targeting those last.

19:26: AI 1 has Warp Gate Guardians. This is going to be an extremely interesting game.

30:00: Initial scouting complete. Only 31 planets remain unscouted, most of which breaking a tachyon guardian or two will reveal. 2 ARSs found, both way far out. 7 Data Centers and 3 CoProcessors. 1 Factory, 1 ASC. My first arm that I'll conquer is the northern one, since it has the ARS and two unexplored planets.

Have a map. P5 is DC/CP, P6 is Core Turret Controller/Core Fab, P7 is ASC/FacIV, P8 is ARS, and P9 mark the two core worlds.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: keith.lamothe on May 12, 2014, 10:10:03 PM
I think it's time for something entertaining.
8/8 Special Forces Captain/Special Forces Captain
H/K plot.
80 planet X map, taking the center spot.
The "What AIP memo?" challenge.
Yes, I think that will supply plenty of SF Insanity.

I wouldn't be surprised if your own fleet paid the Zenith Trader under the table to construct AI Black Hole Machines on your own planets, so that they'd have a legitimate excuse not to wander into SF land.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Winge on May 12, 2014, 11:57:16 PM
On the center point of an X map too...how does the logic for Special Forces entering your planets work again?
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on May 13, 2014, 12:27:41 AM
Well, I kind of wiped attempting to get to the northern branch, but then the game crashed. Time to build some starships and try again.

36:00: Heading out to the north branch. I ignore the sentry eye on the second planet, and kill all the guard posts there. AI 2 also has Disassembler guardians.

38:00: Sentry eye goes down. It only cost me half my fleet! Back home to restock, and wait for the level one reprisal

42:30: The reprisal wave hits, and shows just how annoying the starships in waves are right now. Seriously, Leeches have Missile + Sniper immunity, plus enough engine health to shrug off engine damage? They just get shifted around my planet creating false attack.

44:30: Time to blow up Darkicatch, and use it as a forward base for the entire northern sector.

46:00: So you know those Warp Gate Guardians I mentioned earlier? I just found out that they have the offensive capabilities of Zombards. That was fun. I'm just glad they don't retreat *cue patch adding auto-kite to WGG*

49:50: I pop the Darkicatch command station, releasing the 136 Mark 2 ships in the barracks. Time for a full retreat!

58:00: Darkicach gets a Mil 3. Next stop, ARS. But in between me and the ARS is Raesamu, a Mark 4 planet with a bunch of Spire Shield Generators. Unlocking Bomber IIs. While I wait for the K and bombers, I'll do some DC raids.

1:12:00: Time to clean out Raetosamu and get that ARS. After a fleetwipe, that is. I take out an MLRS, a Disassembler, a Spider, and 2 Ion Cannons.

Reprisal Level 3.
241 AI 1 Ships
There it is. That's the AI I was looking for.
Especially when it sends them after my barely defended outpost, and nearly kills it with a Plasma Siege.

1:32:00: Fleet is finally built, and Darkicach is free of bombers. Did I mention that wave was bombers? I only survived because of how hilariously strong Mil 3 stations are. Time for clearing Raetosamu, take 2. It's generally a lot easier to clear a planet when all its offensive guard posts are dead.
1:36:30: I get my ARS onto Sochi. Choices are Zevastators, Gravity Drains, or Reprocessors. I want Zevastators, but that .1 multiplier against Command-Grade hurts. I haven't seen any H/Ks yet, but it'll happen, I'm sure. Of course, given what Toranth said about hacking earlier, I might not even be able to hack. We'll find out.

1:43:50: I've saved, starting the hack. The AI still refuses to send any zombies that aren't Mark 3. It's quite annoying.
Hack goes without incident. Let's see what this post-hack response looks like. A stream of zombies out of the command station. Not too bad. What's supposed to happen when you pop the command station though? It's not supposed to stop like it just did, right?

1:57: Vampire claws took out the energy collector on Darkicach. I almost brownouted, but not quite.

2:01: Shodi gets colonized. Champion unlocks are Neinzul Champion, Nanosubverter, and Gray Spire Starbase. From the ARS, I get Reprocessors.

Now feels like a good place to cut off

Notes: I like how at Alt Progress 5, the champion gains 3 levels per planet. At least so far. Zenith Reprocessors are INCREDIBLY cheap for those stats (8k Metal? 90k attack? 3M HP? All at Mark 1?). The AI is still only spawning Mark 3 zombies during hacks. It can get other things, right?
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: keith.lamothe on May 13, 2014, 10:49:52 AM
Well, I kind of wiped attempting to get to the northern branch, but then the game crashed. Time to build some starships and try again.
What sort of crash?  Unhandled errors?  Standard windows "this game has crashed"?  "My computer's temperature sensor tripped and it immediately shut off"? :)
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on May 13, 2014, 12:12:36 PM
Well, I kind of wiped attempting to get to the northern branch, but then the game crashed. Time to build some starships and try again.
What sort of crash?  Unhandled errors?  Standard windows "this game has crashed"?  "My computer's temperature sensor tripped and it immediately shut off"? :)

It wasn't game related. I had 2 IDEs and Chrome open, and was downloading something. Windows started crying and I had to close everything. Then I rebooted.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on May 13, 2014, 08:28:35 PM
2:03: Shodi is under attack by roaming threat. Vampire claws take out the ARS. I send in my champion to deal with them.

2:07: The ZPG finally finishes building. Next up is OMD #1, for that sweet, sweet EMP absorption. Since I am planning on taking every planet eventually, I think I'll take Aosjer, which is adjacent to my homeworld. It'll give me Knowledge, too.

2:12: Aosjer down and colonized. It'll be a Logistics station, since it's still a highway area.

2:16: Ginfoto taken out and colonized. I now have a Logistics highway to the northern hub. And some nice Metal income. And 2 ZPGs, for 1.5 million energy. No chances of a brownout there.

2:17: Champion hits level 11, and upgrades to Destroyer hull. I also unlock the HBC module, and Neinzul Mourner starbase.

2:25: I see the first nemesis champions. They threw themselves uselessly on my homeworld.

2:31: 10.5k Knowledge. Time to get all my mark 2 ships! Time to clear out the entire northern branch. The Mark 4 worlds come first, starting with Fufo and Ginwucso.

2:33: Fufo has 2 WGG and a Counterattack post. Fortunately, the post targets Murdoch, my homeworld. Then a 330 ship reprisal declares.

2:35: Oops, I went and did it again. Fleetwipe, and now the reprisal is at level 3. Considering that the wave just declared was a level 1, I expect in excess of 1k ships. Oh, it bought 4 starships, so it's only 700 ships.

There's a bug in the metal interface. It's showing me at 5k metal a second from salvage, but listing my income before salvage (in the net metal/second calculation) as 4.8k/s. Considering that my metal stockpile is going up by the net income number, I'm going to guess that the interface is using the old salvage rate.

2:38: That 700 ship wave? It was headed for Darkicach, not my homeworld. I'm kiting it around the gravity well with my champion, a Leech, and a Plasma Siege, no that it's taken out the command station.

2:50: Darkicach is finally clear of threat. All that's left is some vampire claws that I don't want to spend inordinate amounts of time finding.

2:54: CPA declares. 254 ships.

2:58 Ginwucso goes down. However, the ships in the barracks make me wipe
Reprisal level 4
2196 ships, 8 starships to Murdoch in 2:27
I dun goofed. A total of 2600 ships in waves.

I'm not sure whether I can survive.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: keith.lamothe on May 13, 2014, 08:39:38 PM
And 2 ZPGs, for 1.5 million energy. No chances of a brownout there.
Nice ZPGs you have there.  Be a shame if anything happened to them.


Quote
There's a bug in the metal interface. It's showing me at 5k metal a second from salvage, but listing my income before salvage (in the net metal/second calculation) as 4.8k/s. Considering that my metal stockpile is going up by the net income number, I'm going to guess that the interface is using the old salvage rate.
There's really only the one salvage rate in the game, it doesn't have the old version's numbers to refer to.  I suspect it's just being somewhat unclear.  My guess is that your expenses-per-second were 5.2k greater than your non-salvage income.


Quote
Reprisal level 4
2196 ships, 8 starships to Murdoch in 2:27
I dun goofed. A total of 2600 ships in waves.

I'm not sure whether I can survive.
A mere 2600 ships?  Surely a warhead can smooth over that little indiscretion ;)
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on May 13, 2014, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Quote
There's a bug in the metal interface. It's showing me at 5k metal a second from salvage, but listing my income before salvage (in the net metal/second calculation) as 4.8k/s. Considering that my metal stockpile is going up by the net income number, I'm going to guess that the interface is using the old salvage rate.
There's really only the one salvage rate in the game, it doesn't have the old version's numbers to refer to.  I suspect it's just being somewhat unclear.  My guess is that your expenses-per-second were 5.2k greater than your non-salvage income.
Well, my normal metal income was around 2000/s at this point. My expenses were at 3-4000/s. My salvage was at 5000/s. The calculation for net metal/s was reading: ~2000 = ~5000 - ~3000. At no point did the gross income number ever exceed my salvage. If I see it again, I'll upload a save.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on May 14, 2014, 11:44:47 PM
3:00: The reprisal wave was fighters. 2000 of them. I didn't even need the lightning warhead I prepared. Compared to that, the CPA will be child's play. All the unbuilt trader goodies were killed off by the Plasma Siege, though.

3:18: The trader is back! Time to buy all his goodies again.

3:19: Waves all done, and I'm finally fully fleeted. Time to go crush the Dire Guardian Lair on Ginwucso, then take Fufo.

3:23: 2 Implosions and an Infiltrator. Meh. They all die.

3:26: Fufo goes down. Translocator stations are a pain to kill.

3:28: Fufo and Ginwucso colonized. AIP is at 100. Champion hits level 21, and I get Translocator module, and Zenith Destroyer/Fort.

3:32: OMD 1 finishes building. Time to blow up Raetosamu.

3:34: The champion nemesis exo declares. This'll be my first one.

3:36: Raetosamu is down. With the knowledge putting me at 9.5k, I unlock Metal IIs, and Flagship/Leech/Plasma/Bomber IIs, and Spire/Zenith Is.

3:56: My new starship army is complete. Next stop, Pihdarkjo. It's an Eye planet, so starships only.

4:02: Pihdarkjo falls. The alarm post on the adjacent planet goes off, but I don't care.

4:04: I lose all my starships on Karo because of 5 mark 4 plasma guard posts. That alpha strike HURTS. Only level 3 reprisal, surprisingly.

4:13: Karo falls to champion shenanigans. The barracks lets out 140ish mark 4 ships, and the alarm post triggers, releasing nothing.

4:19: Champion hits level 31. I get the IMT starbase, Bomber Bay module, and Insanity Inducer Module (!). Unlock Force Field II and III, for the homeworld and modular forts.

4:28: Through Champion raids, I manage to pop 2 data centers, and lower AIP to 130, which is just low enough to consolidate my hold on the northern branch before hitting Tech Level 2.

4:33: Attacking Barkvilsav. I fleetwipe, thanks to the implosion guard posts. Reprisal level 4. 2100 ships to Murdoch
This time it was bombers. I'm really glad I bought those mark 3 FFs. I also lost the ZPG on Ginfoto to the rampaging threat. Still didn't need the warhead.

5:00: Fleet is rebuilt. I have at most half an hour before the Champion exo hits, and I want the northern branch mine before that.


STATE OF THE GALAXY: 4 planets remain in the northern branch. I have a bunch of zombies and Resistance fighters patrolling the area, so threat dies pretty fast. Champion Exo is at 94%. I've seen one H/K so far, but it's just idling.

Question: Why do alarm posts count as Warp Gate - FULL, in addition to their alarm? Along with an AIP cost for only 50% chance of avoiding the alarm effect.

Notes: The SF are just idling outside my homeworld. Will they go through a planet when there's no other way past? I figure they should have pathed through my homeworld at some point, considering I've already taken out an ARS world. Maybe when I go for the ASC?
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on May 20, 2014, 06:52:09 PM
Question: What happens when you update to a new version that nerfs exos, when said exo is at 94%?
Answer: Nothing
Also, I get to play with counterattack posts AND warp relays.

5:07: The radar jammer II finishes, with a scant 2% left on the exo timer. Next up is the armor inhibitor

5:10: The exo has launched. And now the threat is building warp relays! Exo arrives, and it's a puny 9 frigates. Mmh, free scrap.

5:12: Oh right, there's 2 AIs. They should probably attempt to sync their Champion exos, at least when the numbers are low.

5:14: Threat behind my frontlines decided to attack. Insanity inducers are a terrifying, terrifying weapon.
In other news, I found the rest of the threat. It's a carrier and a bunch of Champions.

5:17: Barkvilsav down. AIP is at 160.
5:18 Owaeotio down. I feed the barracks to my insanity inducers

5:29: So uh, the AI reinforced a Xinowor while I was fighting there. With Mark 3 ships. The proper response is to turn them all into zombies, of course.

5:37: The Armor Inhibitor is finished. Next up is the Armor Booster.

5:42: Urnmichku goes down. AIP is at 220, just BARELY below tech level 2. Then a CPA declares. 1003 ships. Hey Keith, when are you planning on switching these over to strength?

5:43: Champion hits level 41. New unlocks are Cruiser hull, Flak Module (ugh), and Epsilon Erdani starbase. Then Xinorow's command station gets killed by threatening vampire claws.

5:47: The AI is syncing 2 waves to the CPA. Total of 1500 ships coming in. Shame they're all Mark 1. Then I get the ASC on Urnmichku. Interceptors, Paralyzer, Neinzul Mod Fort, Slicers, Plasma Siege, and Shattered Pillar Starbase. Now those are some unlocks.

5:54: The Armor Inhibitor finishes. Work starts on a Neinzul fort and OMD #2

5:55: The CPA launches, and immediately after, I blow up the Alarm on Karo. AIP is 225. We're officially in tech level 2. I now control the entire northern branch.

5:57: Looks like AI 1 unlocked Spire Railclusters. Wonderful. I know what I'm hacking.

6:00: I think I found the special forces. A huge BALL of carriers shows up, and starts disgorging Mark 1 ships. New unlocks: Riot IIs, Plasma/Leech III/IVs, and Spider Turrets.

6:11: Hasanbu has a Warp Relay under construction, so I finally trigger the Raid Engine one planet back to kill it all. Also, first H/K killed this game.

6:13: Raid Engine killed with a whole 10 seconds to spare.

6:29: Nemesis Exo #2 declares. I manage to scout the rest of the southern branch, and ooh boy are there lots of toys down there. And 2 Factories. I'll blow up the rest of the AIP reducers on the western branch, then it's time to go a-conquerin.

6:46: So I'm NOT going to take out one of those Data Centers, because it's under a Spire Shield Post next to two Arachnid posts and a Translocator station, all while deepstriking.

6:52: Let me introduce you to a champion design I like to call 'Forcefield's doom': 7 Plasma Siege IVs on a Spire Shadow Cruiser. Replace Plasma modules with Shields as necessary for survivability. The damage its bonus hulls is just absurd: 22.4 million on an alpha strike.

6:56: Hasanbu falls, beginning the cleanse of the southern branch.

State of the Galaxy: I have an ASC, Cruiser level Champion, 2 modular forts (Human coming soon!), most of my trader goodies (BHG, Counter-Spy, and Superfort remain), and a boatload of metal income. AIP is 230, making TL2
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on May 20, 2014, 10:52:07 PM
7:02: Chraki goes down. Next stop, Xiyaeao, the hub of the south.

7:06: Xiyaeao down. Exo is at 76%.

7:08: Haslene is down. Out of the Dire Guardian lair on Haslene comes an implosion, needler, and MLRS guardian. And now they're all dead.

7:12: The Ion Eye on Ickdu dies. Putting all your guardposts near the wormhole tends to kill your Eye, AI. The planet dies a minute later. Time to retreat and take care of Warp Relays.

7:18: 4000+ incoming MKII ships to Murdoch.
So that's where all the waves went.

7:21: Those waves hit me with enough salvage to finish my BHG. Exo is at 92%. Champion hits level 51; unlocks are Acid Jets, Rail Cluster, and Spire Mod Fort.
Oh! It's doing the income thingy again. There's absolutely no way my base income is below 2000 m/s. Save attached

7:29: Champion Exo launches. Let's see how this one goes for the AI. Will I be forced to use a warhead? The answer is of course no. Also, Shadow Frigates are most definitely NOT worth 2 metal

7:32: New unlocks: Flagship III/IV, Zenith and spire II/III/IVs. Mmmh, starships.

7:35: Quitinark Data Center goes down. The planet subsequently follows suit.

7:41: The Romb Command Station is down.

7:44: Champion hits level 61. I get Battleship hull and Projected Shadow Decoy.

7:54: Zingtic goes down. It thought it could survive by piling all the guard posts on the command station. It couldn't.

7:58: Ulza goes down. Not even Mark 3 forts can stop me. I should probably head home now, actually, since there's a warp relay at 94%.

8:00: I have 15k knowledge. I should probably unlock something. Unlock Bomber Starship III/IV, and Triangle ships III.

8:13: Enamnar has a Parasite Eye. I have 104 ships immune to reclamation.
8:16: Enamnar dies. Champion hits level 71. I get a Projected Munitions Booster and finally get a Photon Lance module.

8:20: Roasivi has a Zevastator backup. I know what I'm hacking!
8:21: Hey, the AI isn't responding with Mark 3 ships. Rather, it's responding with Mark 4! For whatever reason, the AI deigns to only respond to hacking with ships at +2 tech level.

8:26: Hack finishes without issue. The post hack response seems reasonable. Then I blow up the planet. 420 raze it AIP.

8:32: Orki gets blown up.

8:36: CPA declares, at 3600 ships. On low caps. Galaxy stats screen says that the AI has 10k ships total.

8:39: 3700 ship wave syncs with the CPA. This should be fun. I'm buying Fort Is. Then a 3200 ship wave syncs. And then it turns out there was a warp relay and I didn't notice and they're going one planet behind my front line. Those things need an alert. Something like "Warp relay on blah blah blah"

OH YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS. Now the Champion exo is synchronizing too!
I lose Aosjer and Ginofo. A lightning warhead III blows up a lot of the threat, and all the carriers. A second one takes out everything that isn't a Missile Frigate
8:56: I have no idea how, but I've survived. Now I just need to clear out 3k threat outside my borders. All of which is going to build warp relays, of course. While I refleet (most of my starships...), I use my champion to clear out the warp relays. Photon Lance V modules are insane.

9:17: This is taking too long. I unlock Mark 2 engineers.

9:23: 2 waves totally 4000 ships nearly killed me. The good news is it baited all the threat into attacking, and I didn't even use a warhead. I'm going to need gravity turrets. Unlock Grav turrets I/II

9:28: Larjo falls to my solo champion.

9:35: Thoanpan falls. 4 planets remain in the southern branch. And I'm finally refleeted. Now I just need to survive long enough to colonize the southern branch.
Observations: Cloaked ships should be able to build warp relays. Stopping them is near impossible without knowing where they're gathering or spending AIP on a warhead. Relays also need that static message for when they're fully built.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on May 21, 2014, 10:05:01 PM
Updating to 7.031. While I'm glad SOMETHING is replacing Counterattack posts, a deepstriking warp gate is not fun. A threat catapult would definitely be more interesting. Also liking the proposed changes to turrets, since this isn't my usual game.

9:40: Desmond falls. It had a Sentry Eye and a paltry one guard post.

9:43: Binguo goes down. Fort 1s are not sufficient defense against my fleet.

9:44: Champion hits level 81. I get Polarizer and Doom Accelerator modules. Meh.

9:45: Abatoari kicks the bucket. Now I've got access to a FacIV.

9:47: Akmurdesk, the final planet in the southern branch, broadcasts its last.

10:00: Colonization of the southern branch begins. I capture the Decoy Drone fab, and get Rail Cannon and IRE modules.
Wave declares. 5800 ships, 39 starships. The AI is sure getting serious. But I have a Superfort. Second wave declares. 6300 ships, 40 starships. 13k mark 2 ships coming at my homeworld. Oh my. Also, get Heat Beam module and Projected Shadow Tachyon emitter. Finally.

10:03: Waves hit. I actually have 17k knowledge, so I'll buy all the mark 2 turrets, and use the hose from this attack to build them. It cost me 9750 total.

10:05: I warhead about 3k ships, mostly bombers. Because you know, bombers. After that, the wave mostly dies. I project a 100% chance that I would have died without those gravity turrets, so I can see Grav IIIs in my future. And maybe Logistics substations. And I'm unlocking Tractor IIs.

10:12: I need something to funnel all the salvage I get from these waves. Ion V, here I come. I also unlock all mark 3 turrets except the HBC.

10:15: So uh, my fleet doubled in size. Between that and all these new turrets, I should be able to clear the western branch. From there, to the east and the Homeworlds.

10:19: Generas becomes the first planet in the west to fall.

10:22: Huh. Judau has an H/K. Too bad it can't stop my champion from blowing up the Eye. Jidau is down.

10:36: I raid all 4 coprocessors, bringing AIP down to 564. Then 2 waves worth 14k ships declare.

10:42: I'm not sure how, but I somehow survived. Unfortunately, I doubt I could handle another one of those at TL 3. New unlocks: Human Mod Fort, Gravity Turret III. Trader arrives, so I pause the Ion V and start work on 2 Ion IIs, and prebuy an Ion III and IV.

10:55: Aelkoemich has an ARS. I think it's time to see what's in there.

11:01: Tachyon Microfighters, Minirams, or Zenith Hydras. I'm hacking for Minirams, thank you very much.

I'm stopping here for now. I'm probably due for a CPA right about now. This next one is going to be terrifying.


Notes: I'm loving these changes to increase wave size at high AIP. It feels like the AI is mad and trying to kill me.
Also, I've unlocked all of the champion modules.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Arc-3N-4B on May 22, 2014, 04:23:06 AM
You should totally trigger a Special Forces alarm.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on May 28, 2014, 09:11:44 PM
Quote from: Arc-3N-4B
You should totally trigger a Special Forces alarm.
Yeah, no thanks. I don't think I can handle 30k+ threat.



Now that finals are done, I can finally play again.

11:11: It's time to finish scouting.

11:13: Or not.
19000 AI 2 ships, 56 Starships (III) to Murdoch
This may well kill me. I think I'll build an armored warhead, to go with the two lightnings
4000 AI 1 ships, 55 Starships (III) to Murdoch
W-what low cap ship did AI 1 get? It's probably Railclusters
Also, why is the AI getting Mark 3 waves? I'm only on TL2, unless tech level is based on total AIP, not adjusted.


11:16: Wave 1 hits. The first thing to deploy is 500 Autocannon Minipods. Then 2000. The entire wave is Autocannon Minipods. I'm not sure whether to be relieved or laugh.

11:17: Now for the fun part. The second wave hits. Fortunately, a lot of the units are blocked from deployment by the Minipods.

11:18: I finish both the Ion IIs off of the scrap hose.

11:22: Waves repelled. I succeeded in no small part due to my insane gravity network. It would have worked better, too, if there hadn't been ships off to one side that drew the AI in the wrong direction.
NOW it's time to clear out some tachyon guards.

11:27: CPA declares, at 10k ships. Pathetic.

11:33: While I'm on Aelkoemich, I might as well hack it. With 5 minutes left on the CPA timer. I'm not worried.

11:36: The Special Forces Carriers have arrived. This should be fun. I see 54 so far.

11:38: Status of my fleet: Obliterated. I need more Lightning Frigates

11:39: CPA drops. Literally a minute afterwards, the Champion Exo declares. I sure dodged that one. Then a 5700 ship reprisal wave declares, but that's child's play.

11:42: Ooh, here it comes. The reprisal wave triggered the CPA threat to attack. They're all going to die, of course, but now I'm going to get tons of salvage.

EMP Guardian Detonated on Murdoch. WHAT'S THIS ABOUT MASS DRIVERS ABSORBING EMPS? HMM? HMMMMM?
Seriously though, if it doesn't stop the EMP, what does it mean? I was fine, since EMPs don't stop grav turrets, but the enemy got closer because they were able to ignore a ton of mines.

11:47: Wave repelled. My research hack went off without a hitch, apart from the whole fleetwipe thing. The Ion III is finished, too. Next up will be Ion IV.

11:52: 10000ish ships, 100ish starships incoming. Sweet, more salvage. I can only imagine what this would be like if salvage wasn't capped by my stockpile cap.

12:01: Finally refleeted. Man, that takes way too long
...Oh wait, the starships aren't done yet.

12:05: I pop Aelkoemich. I think I'll take Hydras when I finally cap it.

12:17: Lauareliu goes down. Time to harvest it for knowledge. It's even the last planet in the northern branch.

12:22: 9750 K. New unlocks: Lightning Torpedo Frigate III/IVs, Scout IIIs.

12:26: I have eyes on the AI 1 homeworld. Core Translocator Eye, 3 Neinzul Spawners, an H/K factory, and a Riot Guard post. That Eye would hurt, but it's mitigated by the absurd numbers of Cockroaches that are going to be spawning. I also found the Sniper Controller - it's behind a Core world.

12:29: Here we go. ~17000 AI ships to Murdoch. And the Champion exo is at 98%.
Also, AI 2 homeworld: Core Raid Engine, 2 Neinzul Spawner posts, and a Teuthida. Among other things.

12:32: The waves hit. I almost instantly max out my scrap. Champion Exo launches, too

12:35: Waves repelled. I think the Champion exos were ignoring my gravity turrets, despite the planet being practically blanketed in them.

12:44: Mutherhung has the Railcluster design backup. I think I'm going to hack that out of the AI's hands.

12:56: Design corruption on Mutherhung begins.

13:01: The hack goes off without a hitch. No more Spire Railclusters for you, Mr. AI.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on May 28, 2014, 11:05:56 PM
My immediate first action after the hack is to destroy the Mutherhung Command Station. I need knowledge.

13:04: The plan is to clear out the north branch. The reality is, I'm due for a wave any minute now.

13:08: I was right! 11000 AI 1 ships, 80 starships, 9500 AI 2 ships, 69 starships I'm just going to unlock Fort IIs...

13:10: Wave 1 hits

13:11: Wave 2 hits, somewhat underwhelmingly, since the first wave is past half dead. It was bombers too, so it could have done quite a bit of damage.

13:15: Waves repelled. Next up, northern branch.

13:19: Yezing goes down.

13:21: Parfallus, the planet behind it, falls.

13:32: Barkyaqmoat falls.

13:34: Kuticmel goes down, bringing my AIP up to 727, and into Tech Level 3.

13:37: Dire guardian spawning in 5 minutes, and 8500 K.  I buy Reprocessor III/IVs.

13:42: Dire Needler Guardian. Meh, not too scary. I unlock Fort IIIs and Metal Harvester IIIs. Now nothing can touch me!

13:49: Celeasi goes down. Then I kill the Dire Guardian Lair. My AIP is now a Boeing plane, at 747.

13:52: Haboatnei goes down.

13:56: 5 EMP Guardians detonate on Mutherhung. Ohhhh dear. Then the waves declare: 20,000 AI 2 ships, 87 starships. 23,000 AI 1 ships, 80 starships. 43000 ships headed straight for my homeworld. The only way this could be worse if there was a CPA right about now. I really really home that the new fortresses can hold this off. I think I'll also buy HBC IIIs.

13:59: 12 EMPS! 3 MINUTES OF PARALYSIS! AAAAAH

14:07: Somehow, the wave is repelled.

14:08: The Ion IV finishes. All that's left is the Ion V.
I think this is a good spot to take a break. Man, these waves are getting crazy. I may have to try and superterminal down to the floor.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on June 02, 2014, 02:03:44 PM
Well, I dun goofed and lost about an hour of play. To make a long story short, I tanked a Champion Exo, a 20k ship CPA, a 20k ship wave, and a 30k ship wave, all within the span of 20 minutes. I had to use a few warheads, too. I'm probably going to lose this game soon. My homeworld is half-trashed

14:47: The rebuilding begins.

14:52: The gravity and mine networks are back up. Now it's time to blow up another planet in the northern branch with my champion. I need the Logistics command stations

14:53: Inimucha falls.

15:02: Tchmurderpi goes down. Now there's only one planet left in the northern branch, and it's a rude gesture that got a CSG-D.

15:07: Only triangle ships and starships remain to be built. I also unlock Logisitics III stations. I hope that it'll keep me alive for the next wave.

15:10: I destroy Waybul. Now all the waves will be coming from one wormhole. I'm down to starships for rebuilding.

15:13: Waves declare. A total of 55k ships headed for me this time.

15:21: The carriers are up to my command station, and there's still 20k ships left on the planet. I pop a lightning warhead, to little effect. Next is an armored warhead, but it only takes out 2k. I think this might be it.


15:23: The AI has won. The Home Command Station on Murdoch falls, with 10k ships left on the planet. AIP was at 875.



Well, that was fun. I had two of the branches under my control by the end. If I'd had attritioners or a botnet (or both) on my home planet, I'm sure I could have won. As for the salvage nerf, while I'm glad it's not a fire hose, I'm sad that I'll never be able to make an Ion V. Maybe in a FS game.
On the AI side, I barely saw the Special Forces, since both AI homeworlds were in the same branch. The H/Ks weren't very threatening either. I'm glad the AI will dip into the SF for CPAs, at least. There were at least 50k+ running around by the end. But they were also waaay late to the party whenever I went after a high priority planet. Maybe they should patrol between planets marked for protection, so that they get there in time?
Lightning Torpedo Frigates are just amazing on defense. Also, are they using the same kind of attack as before the warhead change, where they hit everything in range for damage? Or do they hit for a maximum of 1500 total?
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: keith.lamothe on June 02, 2014, 02:16:25 PM
Congratulations on seeing that all the way through, it was impressive to get that far with the semi-recent changes to make reinforcements send their "excess" to waves (that's why it was getting so absrud, mainly: past 200 AIP it just does reinforcements like it was 200 and sends the rest to waves).  So it may be that one really does need to get the memo nowadays, or die horribly.

AI War hopes you have enjoyed this annihilation experience and that it may also serve your future being-annihilated needs.  Share and enjoy!


But they were also waaay late to the party whenever I went after a high priority planet. Maybe they should patrol between planets marked for protection, so that they get there in time?
Hmm, possibly, though that may lead to more situations where it's pathing through player planets, etc.  But having it shift the "rally point" more often wouldn't be a bad thing to consider when I get around to moving its logic to the AI thread (where it can use more CPU time).

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Lightning Torpedo Frigates are just amazing on defense. Also, are they using the same kind of attack as before the warhead change, where they hit everything in range for damage? Or do they hit for a maximum of 1500 total?
I don't think LTF torpedoes were ever "strikes literally everything in range", but have a target cap like most other stuff.  But maybe I remember wrong.  Anyway, they were not affected by the warhead changes.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on June 02, 2014, 02:23:22 PM
Congratulations on seeing that all the way through, it was impressive to get that far with the semi-recent changes to make reinforcements send their "excess" to waves (that's why it was getting so absrud, mainly: past 200 AIP it just does reinforcements like it was 200 and sends the rest to waves).  So it may be that one really does need to get the memo nowadays, or die horribly.

AI War hopes you have enjoyed this annihilation experience and that it may also serve your future being-annihilated needs.  Share and enjoy!
Huh. I probably could have pulled this off before that change, then. Oh well. The AI was also waiting almost an hour between waves, so that was big multiplier, too.

Actually, if wave sizes are getting this much bigger at high AIP, what does it mean for Fallen Spire?
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: keith.lamothe on June 02, 2014, 02:32:15 PM
Huh. I probably could have pulled this off before that change, then. Oh well.
That particular change was primarily motivated by the fact that people were in fact winning this challenge, which should generally not be winnable :)

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The AI was also waiting almost an hour between waves, so that was big multiplier, too.
It will wait longer if you've only got one planet it can send waves to; was that the case?

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Actually, if wave sizes are getting this much bigger at high AIP, what does it mean for Fallen Spire?
It may prove problematic, I don't know.  In general the idea is that the FS stuff should be able to vaporize waves (but be more challenged by the exos) but that may not be the case.  Buffs for the spire city stuff are quite likely, and buffs for the capital ships are also possible.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Peter Ebbesen on June 02, 2014, 03:10:11 PM
Regarding what the redirection of reinforcements to waves does to Fallen Spire, in my limited experience so far the result is that the regular waves are considerably more dangerous than the exo-waves.

This might be different if I were playing with the Zenith trader or champion goodies and tanking normal waves on my homeworld with full Mil3 and Log3 station support rather than tanking them on another planet, as those extra goodies are made for killing humongous numbers of weaker units, but using just the normal stuff and Fallen Spire, the exowaves don't come anywhere close to being as dangerous as the regular waves at the two spire city level and 450 AIP I've reached so far.

Here's an example from when I tried logging wave strength last night to find out just why the Mad Bomber was throwing more than a thousand Electric Bombers at me as part of a 6k wave at rather lower AIP than Mad Rubricant ended up with. Around 400 or so IIRC.

normalWaveStrength:22852.76
AccumulatedStrengthForNextWave:22863.54
waveStrength += this.SurplusWaveStrengthDonatedFromReinforcements = 52531.76

In other words, the bonus added from reinforcements is considerably greater than the base amount granted by AIP, to the degree that I seriously considered halting further conquest until I'd polished off every single guardpost in the galaxy outside the core worlds, working on the assumption that this would lower the number of reinforcements directed to waves. Which would admittedly be a rather silly approach to war, but seemed to follow the logic of the game mechanics as I perceived them. "We don't dare conquer anything until we've destroyed everything". :D
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Mad Rubicant on June 02, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
The AI was also waiting almost an hour between waves, so that was big multiplier, too.
It will wait longer if you've only got one planet it can send waves to; was that the case?
Yeah, my homeworld was the only planet with adjacent warp gates. Gotta get that 50% salvage, after all.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: keith.lamothe on June 02, 2014, 03:18:46 PM
Regarding what the redirection of reinforcements to waves does to Fallen Spire, in my limited experience so far the result is that the regular waves are considerably more dangerous than the exo-waves.
Yea, I'm thinking maybe the contribution from "extra AIP" (> 200) to waves should be halved, or some such.  So it still gets to spend the strength, but less efficiently.  Maybe even 1/4, dunno.

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normalWaveStrength:22852.76
AccumulatedStrengthForNextWave:22863.54
waveStrength += this.SurplusWaveStrengthDonatedFromReinforcements = 52531.76

In other words, the bonus added from reinforcements is considerably greater than the base amount granted by AIP
Haha, yea, that's a bit much.  Though eventually it's to be expected, as before the AI's reinforcements were capped to not benefit from AIP over a certain level it would spawn TONS of reinforcements.  Which didn't tend to cause a loss, but did tend to cause stalemates.  So the idea is for them to now try to cause a loss.  But on FS the increased response should be something that can be dealt with.

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to the degree that I seriously considered halting further conquest until I'd polished off every single guardpost in the galaxy outside the core worlds, working on the assumption that this would lower the number of reinforcements directed to waves.
Actually that's one of those cases where you'd be better off not knowing outside-the-game info (like the redirection of reinforcements being why the waves go up so much) or else knowing more completely what's going on, but being in the middle leads to conclusions like that :)

When the AI gets bonus wave strength from > 200 AIP not being "used" on reinforcements, it does so at the "base rate" of what that extra AIP would have granted to reinforcements.  Specifically, that's before any bonuses due to guard post count or troop accelerators or whatever.  So destroying guard posts will not substantially help there.  Nor do I want it to, to avoid motivating precisely such behaviors.
Title: Re: Special Forces Insanity
Post by: Peter Ebbesen on June 02, 2014, 04:27:37 PM
to the degree that I seriously considered halting further conquest until I'd polished off every single guardpost in the galaxy outside the core worlds, working on the assumption that this would lower the number of reinforcements directed to waves.
Actually that's one of those cases where you'd be better off not knowing outside-the-game info (like the redirection of reinforcements being why the waves go up so much) or else knowing more completely what's going on, but being in the middle leads to conclusions like that :)
Hah, good one!

When the AI gets bonus wave strength from > 200 AIP not being "used" on reinforcements, it does so at the "base rate" of what that extra AIP would have granted to reinforcements.  Specifically, that's before any bonuses due to guard post count or troop accelerators or whatever.  So destroying guard posts will not substantially help there.  Nor do I want it to, to avoid motivating precisely such behaviors.
That's where the benefits of being both a mathematician and a games developer for most of my professional career come in. I'm way too logical to actually do all that much work without structured testing. If I'd decided to go that way based on the data, I'd have systematically polished off a handful of easily accessible systems and then set down to parse the data from the log to see whether it worked the way I assumed rather than do the honours on all the remaining systems first. In the event I decided not to do it as it wasn't in the spirit of your original challenge, but I iwas sorely tempted.