Author Topic: Scorched Earth, Doubled  (Read 3375 times)

Offline Diazo

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Scorched Earth, Doubled
« on: September 27, 2010, 11:13:11 PM »
Inspired by a couple recent threads talking about the Scorched Earth AI type, I decided to go and play a game with both AI's of this type.

This requires an unusual strategy to say the least.

So far I'm doing pretty good, but I did only go Diff 7.

Because I put myself up against 2 Diff 7 Scorched Earth types, I turned everything else off except for the Zenith Trader so that I could get a Zenith Power Generator.

With the scorched earth type, you can't destroy any Command stations because they then interrupt supply so the only knowledge you will gain will be from the systems adjacent to your homeplanet using Mk III science labs. Because of this I went with 3 wormholes connecting to my homeworld to get a decent chunk of knowledge but not make my defensive situation too tough.

I then established outposts in each system adjacent to my homeworld to build energy reactors so that the efficiency penalty doesn't cripple me. The science labs also get build so I can get the knowledge. The outposts are located so that any ships incoming from further away then one hop have to go through my outposts, this lets me destroy the warp gates so that I have a system for defensive depth if I need it.

So far I haven't, because I'm not destroying any command stations AIP is only 57 at 7:43:00 gametime with an AIP progress of 1 per 30 min. That means like only 50 ships in a wave.

The outposts are now up to over 100 units each, mostly turrets, and pretty much invulnerable because so few ships are being thrown at them with this low AIP.

Once all this is done, I then turn to my offensive fleet. There are two things that will make this possible. Engineers do not require supply so I can repair my fleet and there is a Mercenary Enclave Starship you can build without spending knowledge.

The Zenith power generator and Mercenary Enclave Starship alone are 1.5 million metal and crystal, it takes me several hours gametime to build these two units with only my home system for resources. I was sitting up at +10 speed and Frame Skip 10 for most of it.

I then build the rest of my offensive fleet that will go out and attack.

The basic strategy is that my Mk I units will break me into a system because I can replace them outside of supply with the Encalve starship and the sieges will clear the system, except for the command station with the rest of my fleet along to break the tougher systems.

So far, this has worked on everything I've encountered, but I haven't run into a Mk IV system yet. I expect to soon as my offensive fleet is 8 hops from my home system at the moment and I'm about to start my attack on the next world out.

Galaxy map attached. My homeworld is selected and you can see my offensive fleet in the bottom left about to curl around and up to where I'm guessing the homeworlds are.

Overall, an interesting game but it's way too slow because with only a single system for resources you just don't have enough.

D.

edit: Ouchies. That next system out had 2 ion cannons. My Mk I units have wiped 3 times now, this strategy isn't holding up too well as I hit the tougher systems.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 11:28:10 PM by Dazio »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2010, 08:57:14 AM »
Insanity strikes again ;)

A good use of that merc enclave starship, for sure.  But those tough systems with the ion cannons are going to be pretty brutal; they require significant firepower to take down, and if you're limited logistically it can be a real problem.

But good luck :)
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Offline superking

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2010, 09:21:02 AM »
insane idea: allow the MK III science ship to function out of supply

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2010, 09:30:53 AM »
insane idea: allow the MK III science ship to function out of supply

You're right, that is insane ;)
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Offline superking

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 12:47:45 PM »
...OR IS IT !!! (???)
 :P
it seems like its expensive enough in terms of cost, fleet deployment etc that players already only do it when they have to... why limit it to supply?

Offline Sunshine!

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 02:51:48 PM »
There's no way to build a Science Mk3 outside of supply because mobile builders require supply, so there's really no point in allowing science mk3s to function outside of supply without some modification to other systems.

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 03:46:49 PM »
well, the issue seems to stem from that there is no way supply can be gained outside of your home planet (and adjacent)

This lends itself to an incredibly slow game of 'travel to ai homes and destroy', where not even transports can be used..

What I do wonder, however, is how you spent all of your knowledge - you got what, 22000 of it?

you mention sieges.. a few other starships i assume in your fleet..

What I recommend is you make a living off capturing high level ions with your starship fleet. A mk3 alone is 300k mc, so a few of those and you are set.. at that low aip, and some marginal hunting for datacenters and the like, you could probably easily keep aip below 100..

Of note, you /might/ want to consider emping the systems around you so you can destroy the wormhole guard posts.. it is possible, they only have 20mill health, but require minor aip through emps to kill.
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Offline Diazo

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 05:42:46 PM »
I'll have to look at any structures to see if they are worth capturing for resources when I scrap them. I'm not in much of a resource hole anymore now that I've got the Zenith power gen and Enclave Ship built.

As for knowledge I did have 22000 total and so I went for:
Fortress Mk I
Bombers Mk II/III
Fighters Mk II
Flagships
Siege Starships
HBC Mk I
MLRS Mk II
Laser Turrets Mk I
Flak Turrets Mk I
Basic Turrets Mk II

Not on my gaming comp so I might have missed something.

The reason for the fortress is to handle the waves with their range and to keep the systems adjacent to my homeworld clear. The fortresses can attack the entire system from where my outpost is located so it keeps the system clear and because I've destroyed the warp gate, hostile waves have to cross said system under fire from the fortress the whole time. This also makes emping the system pointless as the fortress clears anything that reinforces right away.

I am considering emping systems along my line of advance to prevent them reinforcing however.

Also, I went with so many different types of turrets instead of unlocking MLRS Mk III (Which would be higher DPS) because both fortresses and MLRS are missile ammo and with my entire fleet 8 systems away I can't count on my mobile ships to take care of anything that is missile immune.

I'm not keeping any mobile military around my home system, it's all off with my fleet. I don't ave the spare energy to build a fleet of mercenary ships worth noting either.

One thing to keep in mind, I consider this very much breaking the game. The game is designed to force you to choose what systems to capture and by playing this way I can't capture any systems. Well, I technically could, but it would do me no good.

And as mentioned, it is slow. Because I'm leaving the command stations alive when I leave a system, I can't reinforce on the fly. I have to take my entire fleet, return it to my homeworld while clearing the defences that have respawned, pick up the reinforcements then head back out to the end of my line of advance.

This was just because I could really, I'll probably drop this game as soon as 4.0 beta is released.

That's all for now,

D.

Offline superking

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2010, 09:15:09 AM »
I'm not sure, but wouldnt stocking up on flagship/zenith/spire, leeches & the raid line have been the best route?

they all repair superfast and- if used well- never die, which allows you to save lots of resources in the long run. used with cloaking starships they can deep strike and take engineers with them. leech starships can use incoming waves to provide you with a constant supply of free ships, and capture anything killed by your capital ships. a full posse of starships can bully down fortresses with no losses, and kill just about everything swiftly


Offline Diazo

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2010, 11:27:16 AM »
Are starships really that tough?

I've tried going starship heavy and without a screening fleet to spread out the damage, I lose too many clearing out a higher Mk system.

I've never gone pure starship mind you, but they aren't *that* tough.

The Mk III I cleared recently had 2 fortresses and 4 LRM Guard posts in range of the warp point, add in the warp point defences themselves and I can't see breaking into that system without losing something.

Keep in mind I can't build a forward constructor, any losses have to come from my home system that is now 9 hops away.

Which is why I built my strategy around the Enclave Starship, Mk I fleet ships are the only thing I can build without a 30 minute delay to go back and get reinforcements.

D.

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2010, 12:26:29 PM »
zenith starships and spire starships both have over 10 million health.. i lose them very rarely. Flagships tend to die most often, but even then its rare to lose one to anything other than massed hybrids or something
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Offline superking

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2010, 07:55:07 PM »
zenith starships and spire starships both have over 10 million health.. i lose them very rarely. Flagships tend to die most often, but even then its rare to lose one to anything other than massed hybrids or something

14 million on the zenith, similar on the spire, and both of them can be repaired super fast so they very rarely die unless neglected

Offline Diazo

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2010, 08:53:04 PM »
Even without a screening fleet?

I haven't tried a starship only fleet recently, but the time I did they were not efficient enough because their numbers were so few.

I haven't tested it on ver. 3.189 but I still think that Mk IV systems (and Mk III's once they build up) would kill too many starships to make starship only fleets effective.

Hmmm.....

D.

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2010, 09:40:12 PM »
the thing is, fleet starships need no screening fleet.

Starships are very strong even unescorted... The main problem I have found is that I am too scared of OMDs and forts to let them take fire for too long.. and I imagine in your game a number of systems have forts :\

They might not be able to kill stuff instantly, but they win through attrition - cap of fleet+zenith will easily take down mk3 systems solo if they must (aside from forts, but those can usually be dealt with by sieges in few volleys), with no losses, thus the only issue is repair (and even outside of supply, that is easy)
Even with 'only' a mk1 fleet escort they are still very powerful

id certainly be interested in seeing your migrant fleet move along, you should get some pictures up :p
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Offline Diazo

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Re: Scorched Earth, Doubled
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2010, 01:07:55 AM »
Well, at the moment it's spam Mk I  bombers and fighters through to get the immediate defences down then bring through everything else to cover the sieges while they go to work. I'm trying to not use anything except Mk I fleet ships until I hit a Mk IV system (which I haven't yet) because it takes forever to get reinforcements from this far out.

Even a Mk III fort halfway across the system usually dies to a full shipcap of Mk I fighters and bombers, although I do have to clear any guard posts in the immediate path first.

Next reinforcement run I'm probably going to leave my sieges behind with some escorts, moving at speed 8 for 9 hops is going to be painful.

D.