4:00 Exo. I just wasn't ready. (Did you increase exo spawn rates in their recent buff?)Indirectly, yes. Both you and Kahuna have had your exhaust pipes handed you via platter by the first exo as a result, so I'm guessing it's a bit much. Basically the goal was to bring with-superweapons up to the challenge level you were encountering on without-superweapons.
int minimumEffectiveAIP = 50 + ( Game.Instance.GameSecond / 360 )
int divisor = 360;
if ( AIDifficulty >= 8 )
divisor -= ( 120 * ( AIDifficulty - 8 ) ).IntValue;
int minimumEffectiveAIP = 50 + ( Game.Instance.GameSecond / divisor );
Hour | Old Result | New Result On Diff 9 | New Result On Diff 10 |
1 | 60 | 65 | 80 |
2 | 70 | 80 | 110 |
3 | 80 | 95 | 140 |
4 | 90 | 110 | 170 |
5 | 100 | 125 | 200 |
6 | 110 | 140 | 230 |
7 | 120 | 155 | 260 |
8 | 130 | 170 | 290 |
9 | 140 | 185 | 320 |
10 | 150 | 200 | 350 |
it's almost like you don't want people winning 10/10.Yea it does seem like that doesn't it.
Though the AI unlocking blade spawners and infiltrators (each incredibly painful, but in different ways) does not help.Yea, that was the RNG coming out swinging.
This particular game is interesting: I have strong motivation to both take my time (my freed SCLs) and move as fast as humanly possible (exos).I think the exos win that particular tug of war; the SCLs can deal ;)
Finally: Hunter-Killer mkIII? With SC shield V escorts? On the first exo? <Thread title>Is that how you say "Doom" in your language?
but it won't be a flat "I win" at hour 4.But it likes its I-Win button!
But it likes its I-Win button!Nerf the exos, or I pull out the heavy-duty cheese. And the AI does. not. want that to happen >D
More seriously, does resetting the rate while maintaining the strength seem reasonable?I'm thinking of going with:
Maybe increase the strength later if it that ends up being too easy?
int divisor = 360;
if ( AIDifficulty >= 8 )
divisor -= ( 30 * ( AIDifficulty - 8 ) ).IntValue;
int minimumEffectiveAIP = 50 + ( Game.Instance.GameSecond / divisor );
Hour | Old Result | 6.021 Result On Diff 9 | 6.021 Result On Diff 10 | Proposed Result on Diff 9 | Proposed Result on Diff 10 |
1 | 60 | 65 | 80 | 60.91 | 62 |
2 | 70 | 80 | 110 | 71.82 | 74 |
3 | 80 | 95 | 140 | 82.73 | 86 |
4 | 90 | 110 | 170 | 93.64 | 98 |
5 | 100 | 125 | 200 | 104.55 | 110 |
6 | 110 | 140 | 230 | 115.45 | 122 |
7 | 120 | 155 | 260 | 126.36 | 134 |
8 | 130 | 170 | 290 | 137.27 | 146 |
9 | 140 | 185 | 320 | 148.18 | 158 |
10 | 150 | 200 | 350 | 159.09 | 170 |
Warhead Fortresses:o
Warhead Fortresses
And the AI has tackle drone launchers. OW. I have regularly faced groups of 40 of these things. The mk hubI started with 17. These need a nerf in AI hands, otherwise it basically says "no fleetships allowed."
They also have infiltrators, because the AI should always have something with both cloaking and forcefield immunity ::)
How the crud did they get 17 of them on game spawn? Did that planet have only 17 of them and like nothing else mobile on that planet?Precisely. I don't think 2 caps of mobile ships is a bug, per se. It was certainly a roadblock, though.
Now you might be happy that they getYeah, spending 1000 k not to worry about them seems reasonable.anti-dark matter ammo.
One big hammer on the choke. Led by an H/K mkIII.Oh, yeah! (http://blazbaros.deviantart.com/art/Brother-Koolaidius-180110431)
My huge group of penetrators insta-kills him.Oh, no! (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2000/7/21/)
28 Rams deal with the three enemy golemsYou really know how to make the AI feel welcome.
only 5 hours in and you are already getting Mk. III H/Ks escorted by golems in exos, followed by a 7500 ship count CPA!? Ouch!! 10/10 hurts. :oYea, but
I think a mild strength buff is still in order (their rate is good, though).He still asks for more. On the exos, at least.
You really know how to make the AI feel welcome.That was merely a welcome mat. This (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11286.0;attach=5717;image) is a full greeting. And that isn't the craziest choke I've set up.
We'll see about the CPA, but I think we all know where this is going.I read that as "my victory." Not there yet, though.
I guess the key question is if he will be able to reach the CSGs and homeworlds in time before he is forced to use this sort of stuff so many times it no longer becomes sustainable (running out of spirecraft, or attacks and CPAs get too big for even martyrs and warheads to handle in time, Mk. V carrier spam, whatever)Indeed. I don't think I'll run out of spirecraft for quite a while, though.
Been pretty busy, with the return of health problems, the skyward alpha, and trying all of arcens' other games. But AI War remains my favorite, and I find time for it.I hope you feel better soon (and that those problems are not serious). Glad the games are there to entertain you. For some definition of "entertain".
Yes, "swat" is the appropriate verb. A shadow cruiser (did the Mourner scenario in the 10 mins between announcement and arrival) and black widow kill threatballs fast.Clearly the AI needs more fear of wormholes.
Apparently the AI thinks its reserve is made entirely of bombers. Every one of the ~5000 ships contributed by the SR is a bomber.It has this curious notion that 5000+ bombers can actually penetrate your defenses.
You might want to update guardian-creation-from-carrier costs to reflect their new nastiness.Hmm, yea, I guess that aspect of their pricing didn't get updated, though the other ones did in various ways.
The SF-Alarm posts may need a revisit. ~10,000 extra threat is no picnic, especially led by enemy frigates.They may need a revisit in the sense of emphasizing to the player that "there is something on this planet that can kill you". The mechanic itself I like quite a bit.
I hope you feel better soon (and that those problems are not serious). Glad the games are there to entertain you. For some definition of "entertain".Nothing close to life-threatening, but it seriously interferes with going to school. AI War (among others, but mainly this) has been the difference between bad and terrible days.
It has this curious notion that 5000+ bombers can actually penetrate your defenses.Silly AI. Can't it read the "no fleetships" sign, made of insanity inducers, translocators, and turrets?
They may need a revisit in the sense of emphasizing to the player that "there is something on this planet that can kill you". The mechanic itself I like quite a bit.I'd up the AIP to 10, but if you destroy the post, you definitely won't get a special forces attack.
Nothing close to life-threatening, but it seriously interferes with going to school. AI War (among others, but mainly this) has been the difference between bad and terrible days.Sorry it's so rough. Glad that cheesing the living daylights out of an unsuspecting piece of circuitry can be of some assistance, though.
Silly AI. Can't it read the "no fleetships" sign, made of insanity inducers, translocators, and turrets?None of the ships seem to file proper reports before dropping off the comm net, for some reason.
Operation ExoswatMore mechanical futility, I see.
Gee, I wonder how much of this probable coming up victory can be written up to "Spirecraft cheese" (martyr, ram, and penetrator, I'm looking at you) and "AI lack of response to mobile cloak if it gets past the static tachyon defenses" cheese.I don't consider the spirecraft cheese (unless I did something like kill the HW with just penetrators/cloaked rams), because they are, after all, superweapons. Martyrs have saved me time, but have never been vital. Rams did exactly what they were supposed to, same with penetrators.
Many of the "this group of ships should go to a planet" type systems will cause ships to just blindly stumble into human worlds if there are no other ways they can go.This hasn't happened. If anything, it's the opposite problem, of them being too cowardly to attack, even if they would win (or at least do some damage).
I wonder how much of this is the spokes. At least for the CPAs/threatfleet.Well, I did build my strategy around the map, making it difficult to really be sure. However, spokes definitely helps, for chokepointing waves (it's not nearly so good for exos, though), and isolating AI fleets from each other.
cheesing the living daylights out of an unsuspecting piece of circuitryAnything standing out as disqualifyingly cheesy?
Not really. My main concern is that the AI is just not handling the disjoint graph problem well; I honestly don't know why those threatfleet ships are just waiting to cross rather than just crossing if they've got a target planet (which they always do). That might not be better but at least it would have a chance of hurting you instead of just feeding the widow golem.cheesing the living daylights out of an unsuspecting piece of circuitryAnything standing out as disqualifyingly cheesy?
Do threatfleets consider the firepower of neighboring threatfleets when they make their "should I attack" decision? Because I've had systems defended by only a fort+miniforts, and 1500 ships around it, in groups of about 300, and no attack.
Here's the CPA:
It'll hit in about 10 seconds, freeze for about a minute, then pile up on the wormholes. Debug shows that they typically target planets a few hops away, don't know if that explains it.
I just finished ripping all the references to "Firepower" out of the game and replacing it with the relative-strength logic (had to put in numbers for some things that didn't have that, but it's done now).
Testing your scenario the AI fairly quickly overruns Recursion, No Context, and Box of Mazes.
But it looks at "Midnight" and says "Good Night!". It's about 70,000 strength of Threatfleet (another 12,000 pinned down elsewhere) staring across the wormholes at over 52,000 strength of your mobile and non-mobile defenses.
There's enough AI TF strength (about 4,500) in your "local cluster" to overrun Milkman's Lair and go after High Lab (which the TF is fixated on despite not being able to reach it, due to a lack of "reevaluate whether we can even get there" logic, a lack I'm currently testing a remedy for), but the ally enclaves are camping Milkman's Lair with some 3,000 of their own strength and the AI wants none of that.
Testing continues...
Woa. I knew you mentioned you would like to have only one type of per ship relative strength/cost property, but I didn't think you would actually go through with it this early.Firepower just didn't work as a consistent measure of power. It was basically just BaseDPS. Not even counting bonuses or whatever.
Also, how are the firepower displays in the UI handled? Do they now just show the relative strength sum now?They're all updated to use strength now.
I just finished ripping all the references to "Firepower" out of the game and replacing it with the relative-strength logic (had to put in numbers for some things that didn't have that, but it's done now).Very nice.
Testing your scenario the AI fairly quickly overruns Recursion, No Context, and Box of Mazes.Yeah, they aren't intended to repel attacks, merely discourage them/support the fleet.
But it looks at "Midnight" and says "Good Night!".Midnight, on the other hand...
[...]Still not enough to get them to go after Midnight.
So the entire 82k+ strength TF attacked simultaneously....is an all-out, exo-grade chokepoint. I am not surprised at the result, though it is good to know.
Midnight's defenses destroyed them all.
Unattended by player control.
Your Cursed Golem slept through the whole thing. Nor did any of Tripwire's golems or spirecraft get involved.
You might want to have stuff like gravity turrets and forcefields factor in to planetary strength evaluations (if they don't already).They aren't counted (and haven't been under firepower rules). I'm not sure how to count them as they shouldn't really scare anyone off on their own, etc. But it probably should do some degree of "if the player's using those smartly, this is going to hurt a lot more than otherwise indicated, so..."
Basically, the CPA should be attacking everywhere but Midnight (and possibly High Lab/Milkman's lair, with mercs+allied enclaves) but be hitting hard everywhere else.That's actually exactly what it did with the strength rules, in an earlier test.
And the ones that can't shouldn't wait at the wormholes.Still working on that ;)
BI'm not sure how to count them as they shouldn't really scare anyone off on their own, etc. But it probably should do some degree of "if the player's using those smartly, this is going to hurt a lot more than otherwise indicated, so..."Idea: have the "civilian" things multiply the military strength, by (1+ some evalution).
5/8/2013 6:34:32 PM (6.027)
-----------------------------------
Logging CalculateWorkingAlliedAndEnemyStrength on Midnight
Allied Total Strength: 19.77; from 1 total ships:
1 of SpecialForcesCommandPost sub-totalling 19.77
Enemy Total Strength: 87359.65; from 3333 total ships:
8 of HeavyBeamTurretII sub-totalling 6336
12 of HeavyBeamTurret sub-totalling 4752
4 of HeavyBeamTurretIII sub-totalling 4752
1 of CursedGolem sub-totalling 2970
8 of FortressMissileModuleII sub-totalling 2304.84
8 of FortressTranslocatorModuleII sub-totalling 2304.84
96 of MissileTurretII sub-totalling 2304
89 of LazerTurretII sub-totalling 2136
96 of CoreZenithParalyzer sub-totalling 1920
19 of CoreZenithElectricBomber sub-totalling 1919.99
3 of Fortress sub-totalling 1782
8 of FortressInsanityInducerModuleIII sub-totalling 1728.63
12 of PlayerControlledZenithRefugeeAdvancedCombatShip sub-totalling 1573.17
48 of SpireGravityDrainIV sub-totalling 1536
96 of YounglingNanoswarmIV sub-totalling 1536
96 of YounglingFireflyIV sub-totalling 1536
4 of PlayerControlledZenithRefugeeCommandShip sub-totalling 1237.5
1 of MilitaryOrbitalCommandStationIII sub-totalling 1188
9 of PlayerControlledGraySpireAdvancedCombatShip sub-totalling 1179.88
9 of PlayerControlledHumanMinerAdvancedCombatShip sub-totalling 1179.88
9 of PlayerControlledNeinzulMournerAdvancedCombatShip sub-totalling 1179.88
9 of PlayerControlledHumanResistanceAdvancedCombatShip sub-totalling 1179.88
96 of Turret sub-totalling 1152
48 of FlakTurret sub-totalling 1152
48 of SpireGravityDrainIII sub-totalling 1152
48 of LightningTurret sub-totalling 1152
96 of YounglingNanoswarmIII sub-totalling 1152
96 of MLRSTurret sub-totalling 1152
96 of YounglingFireflyIII sub-totalling 1152
96 of SniperTurret sub-totalling 1152
95 of MissileTurret sub-totalling 1140
95 of LazerTurret sub-totalling 1140
92 of FighterIII sub-totalling 1104
4 of HeroShieldModuleV sub-totalling 990
8 of CoreZenithReprocessor sub-totalling 960
144 of CoreEtherJet sub-totalling 959.94
12 of PlayerControlledZenithRefugeeNormalCombatShip sub-totalling 786.59
96 of YounglingFireflyII sub-totalling 768
4 of RiotControlStarshipII sub-totalling 768
2 of Flagship sub-totalling 768
96 of MissileShipII sub-totalling 768
96 of FighterII sub-totalling 768
48 of SpireGravityDrainII sub-totalling 768
2 of BomberStarshipII sub-totalling 768
1 of HeroHumanBattleship sub-totalling 768
96 of YounglingNanoswarmII sub-totalling 768
3 of PlayerControlledHumanResistanceCommandShip sub-totalling 742.5
3 of PlayerControlledHumanMinerCommandShip sub-totalling 742.5
3 of PlayerControlledNeinzulMournerCommandShip sub-totalling 742.5
3 of PlayerControlledGraySpireCommandShip sub-totalling 742.5
8 of HeroMLRSModuleV sub-totalling 719.3
9 of PlayerControlledHumanMinerNormalCombatShip sub-totalling 589.94
9 of PlayerControlledGraySpireNormalCombatShip sub-totalling 589.94
9 of PlayerControlledNeinzulMournerNormalCombatShip sub-totalling 589.94
9 of PlayerControlledHumanResistanceNormalCombatShip sub-totalling 589.94
6 of HeroLaserModuleV sub-totalling 539.47
96 of Fighter sub-totalling 384
3 of RaidStarship sub-totalling 384
2 of LeechStarship sub-totalling 384
2 of LightStarship sub-totalling 384
4 of RiotControlStarshipI sub-totalling 384
48 of NeinzulScapegoat sub-totalling 384
2 of Dreadnought sub-totalling 384
48 of SpireGravityDrain sub-totalling 384
96 of MissileShip sub-totalling 384
96 of YounglingNanoswarm sub-totalling 384
1 of SpireStarshipI sub-totalling 384
1 of ZenithStarshipI sub-totalling 384
96 of YounglingFirefly sub-totalling 384
2 of BomberStarship sub-totalling 384
96 of Bomber sub-totalling 384
19 of SentinelFrigate sub-totalling 384
6 of HeroNeedlerModuleIII sub-totalling 323.68
36 of BomberII sub-totalling 288
19 of Cruiser sub-totalling 228
1 of HeroMissileModuleIV sub-totalling 198
1 of ModularSpireFortress sub-totalling 192
1 of ModularNeinzulFortress sub-totalling 192
1 of ModularZenithFortress sub-totalling 192
2 of MiniFortress sub-totalling 178.08
15 of RiotControlLaserI sub-totalling 176.92
12 of BomberIII sub-totalling 144
12 of RiotShieldI sub-totalling 142.12
9 of RiotControlMachineGunI sub-totalling 106.15
2 of RiotControlShotgunII sub-totalling 94.75
6 of ImpulseReactionEmitterIII sub-totalling 72
2 of RiotControlTazerI sub-totalling 47.37
2 of RiotControlLaserII sub-totalling 47.18
2 of RiotControlMachineGunII sub-totalling 47.18
3 of RiotControlTractorI sub-totalling 35.53
1 of RiotControlShotgunI sub-totalling 23.69
2 of VampireClawII sub-totalling 13.71
8 of NeinzulMLRSDroneIV sub-totalling 11.91
8 of NeinzulNeedlerDroneIV sub-totalling 11.91
8 of NeinzulLaserDroneIV sub-totalling 11.91
8 of NeinzulMissileDroneIV sub-totalling 11.91
8 of NeinzulMissileDroneIII sub-totalling 8.93
8 of NeinzulMLRSDroneIII sub-totalling 8.93
8 of NeinzulLaserDroneIII sub-totalling 8.93
8 of NeinzulNeedlerDroneIII sub-totalling 8.93
20 of NeinzulMLRSDrone sub-totalling 7.23
20 of NeinzulMissileDrone sub-totalling 7.23
20 of NeinzulNeedlerDrone sub-totalling 7.23
20 of NeinzulLaserDrone sub-totalling 7.23
8 of NeinzulLaserDroneII sub-totalling 5.96
8 of NeinzulNeedlerDroneII sub-totalling 5.96
8 of NeinzulMLRSDroneII sub-totalling 5.96
8 of NeinzulMissileDroneII sub-totalling 5.96
1 of InfiltratorIII sub-totalling 3.6
1 of MobileRallyPost sub-totalling 0
1 of EnergyCollector sub-totalling 0
1 of MercenaryNeinzulEnclaveStarship sub-totalling 0
6 of ForceFieldGenerator sub-totalling 0
4 of MetalHarvesterIII sub-totalling 0
34 of GravitationalTurret sub-totalling 0
6 of MineLayer sub-totalling 0
6 of SpaceDock sub-totalling 0
11 of EngineerDrone sub-totalling 0
5 of LightForceFieldGenerator sub-totalling 0
78 of Mine sub-totalling 0
1 of CloakerStarship sub-totalling 0
6 of EngineerDroneII sub-totalling 0
1 of TransportShip sub-totalling 0
2 of CrystalHarvesterIII sub-totalling 0
4 of ScoutStarship sub-totalling 0
12 of FortressShieldModuleII sub-totalling 0
1 of SpirecraftJumpship sub-totalling 0
2 of NeinzulEnclaveStarship sub-totalling 0
5 of HardenedForceFieldGenerator sub-totalling 0
Inventory of threat power on wait points against Midnight
Total Strength: 80003.41; from 2867 total ships:
28 of AICarrier sub-totalling 56606.79
150 of TackleDroneLauncherII sub-totalling 7200
1759 of BomberII sub-totalling 7036
574 of FighterII sub-totalling 2296
104 of MunitionsBoosterII sub-totalling 2101.89
62 of ParasiteII sub-totalling 496
5 of AIGuardianBeamII sub-totalling 480
2 of AIHeroSpireFrigate sub-totalling 384
2 of AIGuardianLaserIV sub-totalling 384
2 of AIGuardianSpireImplosionIV sub-totalling 384
2 of AIHeroNeinzulFrigate sub-totalling 384
1 of WarbirdStarship sub-totalling 320
75 of MissileShipII sub-totalling 300
3 of AIGuardianLaserII sub-totalling 288
41 of VampireClawII sub-totalling 281.13
1 of AIGuardianFlakIV sub-totalling 192
1 of AIGuardianArtilleryIV sub-totalling 192
20 of SpireTeleportingLeechII sub-totalling 160
1 of AIGuardianZombieII sub-totalling 96
1 of AIGuardianArtilleryII sub-totalling 96
1 of AIGuardianFlakII sub-totalling 96
1 of AIGuardianSpireImplosionII sub-totalling 96
3 of ParasiteIV sub-totalling 48
19 of InfiltratorII sub-totalling 45.6
8 of ImpulseReactionEmitterII sub-totalling 32
1 of CruiserIV sub-totalling 8
Checking for "we have enough strength" clearing wait points against Midnight
ShipsAlreadyWaitingReady.Count:2890
strengthOfThreatWaitingAgainstTargetPlanet:80003.41
targetPlanetRollup.WorkingEnemyStrength:87359.65
targetPlanetRollup.WorkingAlliedStrength:19.77
targetPlanetNetEnemyStrength:7336.47
confirmingClearWaitPointOrder:false
Idea: have the "civilian" things multiply the military strength, by (1+ some evalution).Yea, that occurred to me too, but does it actually work? I can see a mkI cap of ffs making a 10,000 strength defense "look like" a 12,000 strength defense. But should it really make an 80,000 strength defense "look like" a 96,000 strength defense?
So it won't discourage an attack on an essentially undefended planet, but will factor in to big chokepoints. The actual result of "some evaluation" will need some testing, but I think for each mk*cap of ffs/gravity turrets, it should be about .2 to start.
But should it really make an 80,000 strength defense "look like" a 96,000 strength defense?Yes. An 80,000 strength defence performs a lot more than 8 times better than a 10,000 defence, and this would help the AI "realize" that.
That's actually exactly what it did with the strength rules, in an earlier test.Wait, then why did you change it?
he AI actually did make the dash through Milkman's Lair to try to get to Midnight via Tripwire."Alright, we just need to wade through a horde of younglings, and get past all the superweapons the human isn't using right now to get through to his massive chokepoint! Wait..."
What it should have done is go after High Lab"Alright, we just need to wade through a horde of younglings, and then the mercenaries, and then... what is that huge ship that just appeared? It's tearing us apart!"
Not entirely sure if I want to try to make it multi-fleet as that's gonna be quite complicated, but this is one argument for it.Wait, you mean every threatfleet in the galaxy acts like one? It definitely shouldn't.
That's what it's still doing; I meant "strength" (the new numbers) as opposed to "firepower" (the old numbers). The test was "earlier" in the sense of hours ago, whereas the tests I'm currently running are at a later stage in the game (the woebegone siege of Midnight).That's actually exactly what it did with the strength rules, in an earlier test.Wait, then why did you change it?
The AI just can't get no respect.he AI actually did make the dash through Milkman's Lair to try to get to Midnight via Tripwire."Alright, we just need to wade through a horde of younglings, and get past all the superweapons the human isn't using right now to get through to his massive chokepoint! Wait..."What it should have done is go after High Lab"Alright, we just need to wade through a horde of younglings, and then the mercenaries, and then... what is that huge ship that just appeared? It's tearing us apart!"
There is only one threatfleet, correct. Before joining the threatfleet threat behaves normally for 30 minutes, and that is more "distributed" as you'd expect.Not entirely sure if I want to try to make it multi-fleet as that's gonna be quite complicated, but this is one argument for it.Wait, you mean every threatfleet in the galaxy acts like one? It definitely shouldn't.
Not entirely sure if I want to try to make it multi-fleet as that's gonna be quite complicated, but this is one argument for it.Wait, you mean every threatfleet in the galaxy acts like one? It definitely shouldn't.
The AI just can't get no respect.I have plenty of respect for it. In fact, being willing to do crazy things like that when I least expect is a big part of it. But the price of doing the right thing when it looks wrong is doing the wrong thing when it looks (and is) totally crazy.
Well, I'm making a change now to not try to TF any ship that isn't on the AI's "side" of the galaxy.Sounds great.
But when CPA ships were changed to get dunked directly into threatfleet... Well, I'm making a change now to not try to TF any ship that isn't on the AI's "side" of the galaxy. Better that they stick to the "local" logic if they're cut off in some corner of the galaxy on the wrong side of one mean chokepoint.
* Replaced the "Firepower" metric (which was basically just BaseDPS, not considering other stats) with the "Strength" metric (which, while not perfect, has been used with success elsewhere and seems to be a much better measure for comparing groups of units to see which one is stronger; something that the game does rather a lot, particularly in AI logic).
** You're likely to see situations where the AI is undervaluing/overvaluing some things and making... "questionable" decisions about when to commit to an attack, etc. Your reports (and save games) will be helpful in fixing these cases.
* Substantially improved the AI's "intelligence" in handling its threat ships:
** Previously when asking "is it safe to move this threat to its next destination planet?" it would only consider the strength of the threat on that group's current planet (and anything actually on the target planet), but now it also considers any other threat (on other planets adjacent to the target) waiting to go through.
** It now asks that question (is it safe, blah blah) even when moving on to other AI-held planets. Unless it's a special forces ship, which is just supposed to charge in if it's an AI planet.
** If it decides a ship needs to wait, the ship now waits somewhere not directly on top of the wormhole leading to the target planet, because that position is far too vulnerable to tractor shenanigans and such.
** If a ship is in a part of the galaxy that the AI cannot reasonably easily gather forces from (meaning there's some nasty human chokepoint cutting it off from the AI homeworlds), the AI will no longer try to enlist that ship into the Threatfleet. The "local threat" logic is better in those cases.
*** Note that ships already in threatfleet behavior (from previous saves, or before you cut it off from the AI HWs, etc) will stay that way.
* Added a debug chat command: "cmd:log ai wait"
** If used in MP this only affects the host, since only the host runs the AI thread.
** If you're in planet view when you give the command, this tells the AI thread to generate a "LogicLog_AICheckForClearingWaitPointsAgainstSpecifiedPlanet_AIThread.txt" log file in your RuntimeData directory whenever evaluating whether to clear wait points (i.e. charge!) against that planet.
** If you're in galaxy view when you give the command, this tells the AI thread to stop said logging.
** The contents of this log are fairly readable if you understand the terms, but the main benefit is so you can send it to us if you have questions about why the AI was (or was not) waiting to attack in a particular instance.
So I'm thinking that they need to pick a closer spot to the wormhole.An AAR is probably not a good spot to get a lot of responses.
My question to y'all is: what range?
In theory it could be variable (based on "does the human have a black widow golem?", probably ;)No. Riots don't work as well as widows for this specific thing, but they get the job done.
Btw, in the test I just ran the AI did a good job of wiping out most of the satellite planets. Basically only High Lab, Tripwire, Midnight, and some of the "satellites" around Box of Mazes stood; the friendly enclaves stopped the enemy from getting further in than Milkman's Lair and killed the stuff on Box that would have cleaned out its satellites.I've got a bad feeling about this change. Of course, this result was without player intervention.
An AAR is probably not a good spot to get a lot of responses.Yea, I was mainly asking the two of you actually tracking with me here. 20k sounds like a good first shot.
What the range for a plasma siege starship again? Zombard? Missile frigate? Ether jets? Tractor platforms? Martyr? Widow golem? *contemplates trip to the wiki*10000, 30000, 10000, 5000, 5000 (~1/2 for tractors), 3500, 19,000 (tractors at 12000). Note that some ranges increase with mark.
Ok, retested with the wait-20k-out rule and with the exos syncing (via pre-100% launch) with the CPA.I'd be very careful with that rule. CPAs happen at close to twice the rate of exos, so having them try to sync could make it so I never see a full exo.
The combined impact took down the Midnight command stationWhat?! How? Infiltrators, or brute force?
I'd be very careful with that rule. CPAs happen at close to twice the rate of exos, so having them try to sync could make it so I never see a full exo.True. The alternative is to try to sync CPAs up to the exos (so you'd have something like CPA -> CPA/exo -> CPA -> CPA/exo, etc).
I wasn't watching closely, but I suspect the H/Ks. That part of Midnight was hammered flat; nothing left.The combined impact took down the Midnight command stationWhat?! How? Infiltrators, or brute force?
Anyway, it does seem that the AI's responses to your normal stuff and its responses to your superweapons need to cooperate, or there's no way through that doorThis principle applies to all the significant asynchronous responses (FS exos, Golem/Botnet/Spirecraft exos, Nemeses, CPAs). They should all sync up to some degree, or the player gets an advantage for each new, reasonably fair "deal."
True. The alternative is to try to sync CPAs up to the exos (so you'd have something like CPA -> CPA/exo -> CPA -> CPA/exo, etc).I think that would work out pretty well (for the AI).
You could make the degree to which it bends the rules for sync'ing be related to game time. So early game syncs are just random. But the longer the game drags on, the more "effort" is put into syncing. For example, for every one hour of game time, a CPA or Exo can be bumped two minutes later to coincide with the other.That is an excellent idea.
Not sure what you want with the 'waiting-off-the-wormhole' bit. If you want to protect the threatball from warheads and tractor raids, then yeah, 20,000 or so is fine. But that means most units will be out of range to shoot anything.An AAR is probably not a good spot to get a lot of responses.Yea, I was mainly asking the two of you actually tracking with me here. 20k sounds like a good first shot.
I agree. I've always wanted a little more variance in Exos in general (like normal waves), and timing them to sync a little better both does that and improves the 'impact' as the importance of syncing goes up.You could make the degree to which it bends the rules for sync'ing be related to game time. So early game syncs are just random. But the longer the game drags on, the more "effort" is put into syncing. For example, for every one hour of game time, a CPA or Exo can be bumped two minutes later to coincide with the other.That is an excellent idea.
Anyway, this is an AARI have Aura of Thread Derailing +5, sorry ;)
Exo-galactic strikeforce responding to hackingI thought you'd appreciate that.
What the?! Ok that got my attention; pausing the hack (1044 k extracted).
Pop a few D nodes to refleet essentially instantly, and then send the entire fleet to the other homeworld. Eye killed instantly with penetrators, strategic reserve warheaded, forcefields artilleried"Our powers combined..."
and victory achieved.Congratulations! Again. (sound of AI tinkering in the background... was that a scream?)
Special forces should base themselves at the HWs, to prevent situations like me cutting them off.As in cheat to hop to the HW?
If they are cut off, then they should redeploy via carriers.
SC shieldbearers are awesome come HW attack time.Yea, they're kind of the defensive equivalent of the warhead. The match seems natural.
SCLs might not be that bad. Possibly.I noticed you riding the floor with those. The AI should be a bit better at killing them when I'm through with them.
I have Aura of Thread Derailing +5, sorry ;)No problem.
(sound of AI tinkering in the background... was that a scream?)The sound of the AI attack synchronization?
As in cheat to hop to the HW?Yup. On second thought, it wouldn't really affect me, beyond deploying a nuke.
I noticed you riding the floor with those. The AI should be a bit better at killing them when I'm through with them.Yeah, I saw some AI ships literally fly past one of them without killing it.
Among other things.(sound of AI tinkering in the background... was that a scream?)The sound of the AI attack synchronization?
Yea, the AI didn't even consider it an "irreplaceable". No longer.I noticed you riding the floor with those. The AI should be a bit better at killing them when I'm through with them.Yeah, I saw some AI ships literally fly past one of them without killing it.
Oh, I forgot one of the goals of this game: chokepoint comparison. Yeah, single choke is a luxury, but it isn't necessary to victory. No-choke is possible without any superweapons, but you need to be constantly vigilant.Midnight certainly is pulling choke-duty. It's also pulling map-fragmentation duty in a big way. But yea, the Milkman's Lair angle is still open (until you gate raided back there anyway) and I've seen the AI pull off exo kills that way sometimes. But player-attended it would still be very survivable.
Congrats on the win, though I think you may have been able to finally uncover the situations and the "need" to deal with one of these few remaining "gaps" in the AI intelligence (where and when to attack). That may not bode well for your next AAR. ;)Thanks. I'm not too worried; the AI will be able to attack as intelligently as it likes. I will have eight champions and an FS fleet waiting for it. And warheads, of course.
Thanks. I'm not too worried; the AI will be able to attack as intelligently as it likes. I will have eight champions and an FS fleet waiting for it. And warheads, of course.Yea, my guess is that the scaling nebula rewards will make you unassailable just by themselves. 32 Mod Forts? Against single-HW stuff? Sure you'll face like a billion nemesis units, but they won't scratch that defense. If you can power it, at least.
In fact, this (http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=11091) is much more of an issue.The counter posts, or the CSGs themselves?
Yea, my guess is that the scaling nebula rewards will make you unassailable just by themselves. 32 Mod Forts? Against single-HW stuff? Sure you'll face like a billion nemesis units, but they won't scratch that defense. If you can power it, at least.Just 24 (human mod fort is a k unlock), and energy will be an issue. Further, the AI doesn't have to kill my defenses, just get past them. And it will be single-HW Exogalactic Transceiver stuff, so I doubt it will be all that easy. And I wouldn't put it past you to implement this (http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=9850) in the middle of my AAR.
The counter posts, or the CSGs themselves?The posts. The CSGs go away as soon as I conquer 1 of them, after all.