Author Topic: Nines, just up to my nines.  (Read 1410 times)

Offline Diazo

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Nines, just up to my nines.
« on: April 09, 2013, 10:26:31 PM »
Alright. There's been some pretty big changes to the game recently so I figure I'd give them a try.

Also, thinking on it, when's the last time I actually won a game on diff 9? It's been a while.

So, nothing exotic here, just a straight up game with a couple nine(balls). Is it just me or is it getting cold in here?

I'm going to post my thoughts and opinions as I progress as this is as much about the recent game changes as it is me actually winning.  8)

Also, after the recent thread about high-AIP being restrictive, I'm going off my usual play style and going not be as paranoid about AIP as I usually am. Let's see what happens?

Going with my usual setup so:

80 planets, lattice map, Diff 9/9, Random All/Random All, no % modifiers
Normal Cap, Normal Combat, All Ship types including CSGs enabled.
All minor factions and AI plots off, lazy AI off.

Close my eyes, hit new map, hit start game.

Here we go:



Ohh, that's a lot better map position then I usually get. I also get zenith chamelons as my bonus ship. Bombers ahoy!

OKay, going for a mid-aip (probably) game means more ships then usual. Immediately unlock Harvesters Mk III. Also grab Grav Turrets Mk I to slow those starships down.

Get my initial build going and start scouting.

AI 1 is an attritioner? Okay, that will hurt deep strikes but won't be a primary tactic of mine this game.

AI 2 I'm not sure. I have scouted 7 AI2 worlds and combine found an Alarm Post, a Troop Accelerator, and a Planetary Armor Inhibitor. That's almost half the worlds having something special. Is there a 'get lots of special structures' AI type?

***Game Time 8 minutes***

And the first wave arrives, missile frigates. Pretty easy, I've got plenty of units built.

Or it would be if they hung around, 7 seconds after warping in they turn tail and run away. I have replicated this from the autosave that happened with 20 seconds left on the wave timer. I've attached it if you want to take a look Keith, I've seen this behavior in previous games but never had a save to post until now.

***Game Time 15 Minutes***

The second wave hits and apparently AI 2 is a  Neinzul Youngster as the wave is a pretty even mix of all the neinzul types (including fireflies). Annoying enough these turn to run away aswell after being in-system only 8-10 seconds or so. As they are going to self-attrition this is kind of self defeating.

***Game Time 20 Minutes***

Well, it's a good thing my bonus ship is a bomber type, one of the AI's unlocks is Sheild Bearers. I've found an ARS 3 hops out from my HW, hammering down a path to get a science ship in.

Also 2 data centers within 3 hops, going to hammer those down too.

***Game Time 40 Minutes***

One DC is down, lost 3 raids and a transport on that run.

Got the Science Ship into the ARS. If I dont' hack, it's Zenith Auotbomb. However, I can get Tackle Drone Launchers if I hack it!. Anti-Armor is my other choice.

Tackle Drone Mk IIs? I think I'll go for that. Hacking this ARS is now my next goal. Now how to go about it?


***Game Time 42 minutes***

I need to go threat hunting already, more ships from waves are surviving to get away and go onto threat then my defenses are killing. Going to have to figure out where the threatfleet parks, the threat on worlds adjacent to me is only accounting for about half the ships showing on the threat meter at the top.

***Game Time 45 minutes***
Going to have to call it here, I've got my plan to setup the Ship Hack started, working on hammering a path.

I've updated the Galaxy Screen Shot above with the CSGs showing. I'm going to capture the D CSG (blue) on the far left (Amael) so the ARS at Barklikjer with the tackle drone can be hacked while in supply. I'm going to hop the intervening systems however so Amael will be my first capture of the game. As a bonus, the DC I have yet to kill is on Amael so my AIP will not come off the floor until I capture Barklikjer.

More to come tomorrow.

D.

edit: Picture links I need publicly available and my usual host is down. :(
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6-5UOjSWq7bMms0aGFzWl90Rms/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6-5UOjSWq7bTnRCSGVpSTN3ZW8/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6-5UOjSWq7bemdlYmkwRXR3dlU/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6-5UOjSWq7bcXV2SHQta2duSWM/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6-5UOjSWq7bZ0s1bXM3ZjBZWWs/edit?usp=sharing
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 07:15:35 PM by Diazo »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Nines, just up to my nines.
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2013, 11:19:42 PM »
I'm going off my usual play style and going not be as paranoid about AIP as I usually am. Let's see what happens?
What could possibly go wrong?

Quote
Or it would be if they hung around, 7 seconds after warping in they turn tail and run away. I have replicated this from the autosave that happened with 20 seconds left on the wave timer. I've attached it if you want to take a look Keith, I've seen this behavior in previous games but never had a save to post until now.
Ah, thanks, have added a "Investigate cowardly frigates" trello card to the "for next release" list.
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Offline Diazo

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Re: Nines, just up to my nines.
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2013, 11:54:35 PM »
I'm going off my usual play style and going not be as paranoid about AIP as I usually am. Let's see what happens?
Or it would be if they hung around, 7 seconds after warping in they turn tail and run away. I have replicated this from the autosave that happened with 20 seconds left on the wave timer. I've attached it if you want to take a look Keith, I've seen this behavior in previous games but never had a save to post until now.
Ah, thanks, have added a "Investigate cowardly frigates" trello card to the "for next release" list.

Thank you for that. Because I play long range defense, all my defenses are clustered at my Command Station and I wait for the AI to come to me. Because of this almost the entirety of an AI wave can escape onto threat if it turns around so soon after entering my system.

If I recall the previous time this was tweaked many patched ago, there's supposed to be a 30 second timer before the waves can retreat?

D.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Nines, just up to my nines.
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 12:00:35 AM »
Iirc 30 seconds is the target, yes.  I don't believe I was directly involved in the implementation, though, so I may have misunderstood.  Anyway, I think 30 seconds is what it should be.  If it's going to retreat faster than that it may as well just dump the wave onto an AI planet and thus straight to threat.
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Offline Diazo

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Re: Nines, just up to my nines.
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2013, 12:10:53 AM »
***Second Game Day***

Nothing major to report. Hammering the path to the planet 3 hops out I want to capture is hurting.

In addition to the Harvesters Mk III I unlocked last night, I unlocked Flagship IIs for the Attack Boost and also to hunt Zenith Bombards. That will give me more ships to hunt them down, I've been using my raids and Flagship Mk I's to do so. I have 2,500 knowledge left which is earmarked for Zenith Chameleons Mk II but that has to wait for the system capture for my energy system to improve.

The planet 2 hops (Murdoch) out was Mk III so it took a while.

Then the planet I want to capture 3 hops out (Ameal) has a Counterattack post right next to a fortress. It is also Mk III so with 4 million HP, I'm not raiding that post down with raid SS before the fort kills them. I did try but the raids just kind of vanished.

However, I have killed all the tachyon posts now so I can transport bomb the counterattack post with a cloaked transport carrying a full load of mk I bombers. Probably a one way trip for an entire cap of bombers but once that counterattack is down I can kill the command center and then build turrets to kill the fortress. Capturing this system will also knock the CSG-D network down.

Depending on how my energy system shapes up I will then Ship Hack for my Tackle drones, or I will capture an adjacent planet first, knocking down the CSG-E network, and then Ship Hack.

I still have 30-45 minutes of game time to get my command station up in the first system though, travel times are surprisingly long at 3 hops out from my nearest world, especially as I'm bringing along the Plasma Siege to crack the higher mark FF's I'm running into.

D.

It's

Offline Vyndicu

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Re: Nines, just up to my nines.
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2013, 04:36:44 PM »
I am trying to figure out how you know which ARS design you will gain if all you did was park the science ship in ARS system.

Did you attempt to take over to find out which one it will be and go back to your previous save point?

Offline Hearteater

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Re: Nines, just up to my nines.
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2013, 04:40:58 PM »
Left most is what you get if I recall correctly.

Offline TechSY730

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Re: Nines, just up to my nines.
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2013, 05:14:36 PM »
Iirc 30 seconds is the target, yes.  I don't believe I was directly involved in the implementation, though, so I may have misunderstood.  Anyway, I think 30 seconds is what it should be.  If it's going to retreat faster than that it may as well just dump the wave onto an AI planet and thus straight to threat.

Well, as many people have pointed out, sometimes attackers aren't staying for 30 seconds. Sometimes they retreat in as little as 2 seconds.

Offline Diazo

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Re: Nines, just up to my nines.
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2013, 05:43:28 PM »
I am trying to figure out how you know which ARS design you will gain if all you did was park the science ship in ARS system.

Did you attempt to take over to find out which one it will be and go back to your previous save point?

I used a Science Mk I in a transport to get it to the system with the ARS, and then paused the game immediately after unloading.

Once you select the Science ship, there is a new tab called ARS that has 3 ships.

The ship on the left is the one you will get if you capture the system without ship hacking, if you ship hack, you get your pick of the 3 when you capture the system.

Note that ship hacking has to happen while the AI Command Station in the system is still alive.

D.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Nines, just up to my nines.
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2013, 02:31:39 PM »
You may be pleased to know that for 6.019:

Quote
* Finally fixed a longstanding bug where the "Attacking AI ships should wait at least 30 seconds before retreating" rule was not working.  It's possible there are other behaviors which may cause retreat-like results, but this fixed the reproducible case we had.

Thanks much for the save :)

Pre-fix the whole wave ran for it about 3 seconds after entering the system.  Post-fix they all charge your command station, do some damage, and then start retreating around the 30 second mark.


A few of them almost made it out, but those missile turrets have a long reach.
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Offline Vyndicu

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Re: Nines, just up to my nines.
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2013, 02:36:01 PM »
Actually in your case I would have instead use a cloaker starship + science lab on a group move order especially true if you clear all of the tachyon guardians on the way over.

To each his or her own. I knew about see the ARS tab using non-ship design hacker based science thing. I just didn't know about left one being the one you will get if you don't hack beforehand. Handy to know.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: Nines, just up to my nines.
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2013, 04:22:59 PM »
Mark II Science Lab has built-in cloaking.  They are perfect for scouting ARS hacking options.

Offline Diazo

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Re: Nines, just up to my nines.
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2013, 12:13:01 AM »
A few of them almost made it out, but those missile turrets have a long reach.

I know, Missile Turret +Grav Turret = Death, death and more death.

On the Sci Lab, I did not have all the tachyons down when I scouted the ARS, the tachyons coming down was a result of the decision to ship-hack. If I'd just decided to cap the system and take the Autobomb (non-hack ship), those tachyons would still be up.

No game play today, I was having 'fun' with Ikea instead.

D.