Author Topic: Epic Fail : Disgussed anyway :p  (Read 1583 times)

Offline Vampyre

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Epic Fail : Disgussed anyway :p
« on: November 20, 2010, 11:51:19 AM »
Hi guys,

Here is my first epic fail since I bought the game... And I'm quite disgussed... I'm trying to go along in the tutorial (for X4000, problem is definitely fixed for me... 3h30, and no problem :p you rock !). I'm at the moment where I need to make that (it's how I call that move) suicidal move... I need to go with transport ships, empty them, and kick the warp post (I think that's the one). It is located right near the AI station, but I'm sure I didn't fired at it. I reach the zone with my transports, empty, make the warp go boom, refill the transports, and warp back.

Once on the other side, I feared a counter attack, so I basically emptied again my transports, and moved them away. I had a fleet of more than 600 ships at the wormhole, waiting, and still a scout on ennemy territory. I saw the AI was counter-attacking, and they went through.

And there I don't understand... They passed my turrets, avoided the 600 ships and passed through them, straight ahead to my station, and in just seconds, it exploded (though protected by two force fields). Game lost...

But there, and that's why I'm disgussed, I watched, just to see what would happen. My forces killed anyone. So basically I survived, but not the station. I was not underpowered, and managed to end that battle. Too late, but I won that battle... I don't know what else to do at that point, as I'm at maximum ships I could build, tech 1, tech 2 and tech 3 (just the fighters) and therefore at low energy level before starting the suicidal move...

So what would be your suggestions there ? It's true I'm invading with 4 transports (a little less than 800 ships). Is it changing something if I do the same (or try, because they die fast there) with only 1 transport (200 ships ?) Do I need to build 16 huh... don't know the name anymore... that turret that avoid ennemies from moving ? I have only 1. Do I need to remove the turrets around safe wormholes ? For the moment, I've just been following the tutorial, but there, damned, the ai is fast at taking my station out !

Thanks for any information :-)

Offline Vampyre

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Re: Epic Fail : Disgussed anyway :p
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2010, 12:05:18 PM »
Huh, don't worry, found some nice tips in here :

http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,7514.0.html

Offline wyvern83

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Re: Epic Fail : Disgussed anyway :p
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2010, 12:09:42 PM »
I noticed you didn't mention any starships, you should definitely build some if you haven't already.

Also a note on Tractor beams turrets, mk1 tractors only catch 30 units and there are some ship types that are immune to tractors completely.

Good find with that thread, all the advice you need should be in there.

Offline Vampyre

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Re: Epic Fail : Disgussed anyway :p
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2010, 12:21:07 PM »
Let's make it the opposite way now lol... I've read the other thread and tried a strategy (btw, I forgot to add that I have starships, some at lvl 2 but not all)...

Here is what I made : I loaded a transport with two starships. One siege and huh (jeez, I always forget the names) - the one that boosts the attacks. I sent the transport far away where it couldn't be shot anymore. I couldn't empty it (don't know why, probably to avoid a sitting of transport), so I sent him back. Half way, he emptied himself. I had the reflex to take the two starships and send them back away from other ennemy turrets. Unfortunately, my support starship died with the ion shot. With the one left, I set him in pause, and ordered him to shoot only that warp gate. He came back on position, shot once, and destroyed it. I rushed my ship back to the wormhole, to try and save him (which he actually did)...

Since, I'm waiting for the counter-attack. It seems no ship at all were woke up. I still have my scout there, and no ship is moving at all...

Seems I get quite the opposite now, but a good tactic to remember :p

Thanks anyway for your post wyvern83

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: Epic Fail : Disgussed anyway :p
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2010, 12:22:28 PM »
Destroying the command station typically triggers a mass counterattack by any mobile forces on the AI planet.   Mass assaults can also cause severe counterattacks. Engaging defending forces in a brawl can also trigger more limited responses.

This can actually be used to your advantage if your attack forces arent strong enough to roll over the planetary defenses, since a quick strike can lure them on to your territory to be crushed on your terms. The trick, of course, is living through it.

Without defences, you're basically engaging the enemies mobile forces.  Most enemy ships are not serious dangers to forcefields except in vastly overwhelming numbers; Bombers and similar ships are a dramatic exception, and if enough make it to your command station you're in deep trouble forcefields or not.   Your principle objective is to stop the bombers and bomber-analogues before they can reach attack range of your fields; other AI forces are worrisome in that they suppress your defences and kill your defending units.  Every defence plan in AI War revolves around two aspects: killing them and slowing them down.  Killing them is normally accomplished by your mobile fleet, supported by turrets - Turrets can almost never defeat serious attacks by themselves Slowing them down (so you have more time to kill them) can be accomplished many ways, but the most basic method is to use Tractor Beam Turrets on the portal the enemy is approaching through.  This will halt the enemy in place entirely until they manage to kill the tractor turrets, which isn't easy. Even then the enemy group will be more spread out and easier to deal with.

If you're feeling truely paranoid, you can establish multiple layers of tractor turrets, use forcefields to make them resistant to most enemies, or even look into using advanced slowing methods like grav turrets, EMP mines, or engine damage.

Now, as for killing them...

Unlike most attacks, counterattacks consist of a varied mix of enemy units probably accompanied by Guardian ships.  Since these ships have varied speeds, they tend to clump into discrete unit types on their way to your command station, which means that with a little elan and enough firepower you can cut them apart in detail.   Your ships are typically faster than the enemies, so try to only engage their leading elements, and engage them with units that counter them for maximum efficiency.  Typically this works as the fighters leading the enemy group, the bombers following, and the missile frigates bringing up the rear. Fighters counter Bombers, Bombers counter Frigates, and Frigates counter Fighters. So ideally your frigates are staying ahead of their fighters, pummeling them while staying out of range of their bombers; your fighters are mixing it up with their fighters and their bombers while staying out of range with their frigates; and your bombers are swooping around the side to pummel their frigates from the rear, outside the range of their fighters.

But, that's a lot of micromanagement. Just remember that the primary threat to your base is the bombers, and concentrate on having your fighters take out the bombers.  Your frigates and bombers are basically there to support the fighters in this task, and are more expendable if need be to get the job done.

Particular turrets are good against different enemies, as well. Specifically, Missile Turrets are good against Bombers, MLRS Turrets are good against Fighters, and Basic Turrets are good against Frigates.

The wild card in this is the AI Guardians. I don't know what types show up in the tutorial, but theyre significantly more capable and usually more difficult to counter than the basic enemy ships.  But, if you have a doubt, look at its Armor Type and look at your ships to see what's good against that armor type. Beware of annoying special abilities, like the Spider Guardian that hurts your engines and the Heavy Beam Guardian that has good bonuses against your turrets.

Offline wyvern83

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Re: Epic Fail : Disgussed anyway :p
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2010, 12:37:35 PM »
and ordered him to shoot only that warp gate.

Ah, I was wondering if that was what you were doing. 'gate raiding' can be very handy so be sure to use it often in the future if you want to reduce the number of possible wave warp-in points in your systems.

Just be sure to always have one AI warp gate adjacent to your territory, if you destroy them all waves will come at you the long way and you will have less control of where they show up.

You can learn even more here: http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Rate_Of_Expansion, the section on 'whipping boys' says more about how this can be very useful, x4000 elaborates on it a little ways into that section.)

Offline Vampyre

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Re: Epic Fail : Disgussed anyway :p
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2010, 02:18:29 PM »
My god !!! I'm not lucky on this tutorial lol...

Thanks for your post, before I forget... But I think I didn't won on the lottery in this tutorial...

When I reached up the last message, telling me that from that moment, I wouldn't have more hints on what to do. Just go and defeat Homeworld of the AI...

So, I built my fleet, and even managed to go capturing the Mark IV build factory. Cool... Now I can build those mark IV... AI is almost dead now to me...

By disabling a lot of systems not anymore in use, and keeping the very minimum against security, I build a fleet of near 1000 ships... Wonderful ! Maximum starship bombers, siege, and support, to deal a maximum of damage, while having my queue list set and 12 engineers linked to it, for fast rebuild for the losses, and preparing sending other waves if I encounter resistance.

After that, I send my full fleet to the nearer system next to the AI homeworld... I manage to take out the mark V ships of the AI, and what only remains are some building. I notice there an Ion Cannon, destroying 1 low ship per shot, and also two data centers. Cool, this will help me keeping the AI level low... I head for the one with the ion cannon... It's protected by a bubble. I start attacking it... And there, when the bubble is halfway dead, comes the big AI surprise !

I don't know what I shot at, but suddenly, I hurt an explosion like, and see my screen red with ennemies ! Shit ! What happened ? I had only lost something like 150 ships, so I still had 850 ships more or less... They got destroyed in seconds. A quick watch at the number of ennemies in system just killed me ! 1900 ennemy ships ! Oh my god ! A quick watch, and I just have the time to notice the word Neinzul... Before attacking that data center, I had only 142 ennemy ships in that system. And suddenly they came with nearly 2000...

The rest I leave it to you. They quickly defeated my fleet, jumped from system to system, overwhelming and destroying in seconds what I had built, and quickly arrived at my homeworld, which they decimated... No time to respond there...

Big surprise indeed !

Now, I know who are the Neinzul, and the homeworld of the ai is neinzul... I think I will have it hard defeating such a power with my small tutorial ships... :s