Author Topic: 7/7 Variety Games  (Read 1952 times)

Offline Sean_K

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
7/7 Variety Games
« on: March 10, 2012, 03:24:10 AM »
I’ve been a fan and on/off player of this game for over a year and thought I’d actually get myself to finish a game by creating an AAR.  I’ll probably end up updating this every 3-5 hours of gameplay when I have time, as even in the games I’ve tried I tend to progress pretty slowly especially compared to some of the people on here.

Settings:

Realistic, 120 Planet
All base game minor factions and AI plots (for variety, hoping to get to all minors and plots from all expansions eventually)
AI 7.0/7.0 Both Random Non-technologist

Random Homeworld

This, I remind myself, is why realistic maps with lots of planets are a pain.



After some scouting and untangling the map:



Names for reference:



Darkdo has my first ARS as well as an Ion IV.  Found a data center on Hebarkko I might save for later.  AI 2 seems to be a counter spy so further scouting will be fun.  First wave of raiders decided to camp out on Toothpelanc.

Since the AI’s main defenses and a good amount of the resources are to the bottom right of my start, I’ll probably start there.  Unlocks going forwards are the economic station line.  May need to go for scout starships if scouting is too much of a hassle.

Offline zoutzakje

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,046
  • Crosshatch Conqueror
Re: 7/7 Variety Games
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 07:36:16 AM »
welcome to the forums ^^
interesting looking map you got there. And yeah, realistic can be confusing sometimes (which is exactly why I like it).
Already found an ARS so close to your homeworld on a 120 planet map? nice.
Turning all minor factions and AI plots on could be... deadly lol, even if it's just for base game. Playing with the avenger on while you have no golems or spirecraft to take it out seems like a serious challenge to me.
http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,10328.msg100587.html#msg100587

Me? Wrong? Never! I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken...

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: 7/7 Variety Games
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 10:02:04 AM »
Welcome to the forums :)  And thanks for recording your experiences; AARs are both entertaining and educational for the DMdevelopers ;)

As for Avenger and no-superweapons; yea, it's a boss fight, but it's quite doable.  Folks had a lot of fun figuring it out shortly after it was implemented.  Fortresses help a lot.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Catma

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: 7/7 Variety Games
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2012, 09:01:29 PM »
Hiya! Nothing better than seeing more threads in the AAR forum!

What was your starting ship, and any idea on the other AI type?

On a side note, those planet names... lol. Darkdo AND Darkto? Barkboom, Killerasub, Toothpelanc?! I personally am hoping for an epic battle at "Caved'em".

Offline Sean_K

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: 7/7 Variety Games
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 12:15:05 AM »
Next Update 6 Hours into the game:

Forgot to mention, bonus ship was deflector drones which is annoying as the only laser-using ships so far for the AI is the raider.

Also, to explain before the gameplay for those above who were commenting, the reason for using all minor factions/plots is that I'm the kinda guy who tends to overanalyze strategy games to the point of knowing the most optimal strategy and keeping myself from actually having fun playing the game.  Hence, their supposed to keep the randomness at the point where there's really no optimum strategy and if I keep the same strategy something will cause that to lose its effectiveness before too long.

Plans proceeding as expected, took Amako as leaving a mk IV planet next to you homeworld soon becomes fun (DF style) quite fast if given time to reinforce.  Meanwhile two waves of bombers and fighters glance off of Revaid.  Unlocked mk3 Econ Stations to get a good resource flow going.

Took Therco next for the resource nodes.  More fighter/bomber waves interrupt the takeover and some human raiders who proceed to wipe my mk I fleet out and then nicely clear the planet out for the most part.  When those finally dispersed, plopped another econ station and proceeded to Rewmel.

Popped the ion cannon and counter post on Rewmel with raid starships.  Two waves pop up while I wait for the counter wave and I’m forced to firefight between Therco and Amako.  Once the waves are clear, I go after Rewmel with my fleet.  Attrition is high due to a few leech starships on the planet which necessitates a few rebuilds of the fleet.  Finally, the last guard post (darn 160 Million health mk III Spire Shield Post) and the ships under it go down.  Plop Econ Station.  Moving on...

Meanwhile my raid starships were wiping out the posts and command station on toothpelanc and its ships are wasted on my homeworld’s defences.  Waves of ~400 fighters and ~200 frigates hit Amako and Reviad but rush-built turrets quickly take those fleets down.

Raids start working on Edtoyi taking out the ion cannon and gate.  Waves of cloaked (planes) and deflectors pop in on Toothpelanc and Amako.  Raid continues on Edtoyi, destroying the command center and freeing the few units there.  Wave of bombers goes to Therco and I rediscover the joy that is building your entire stack of lightning turrets in the middle of an unsuspecting wave then watching the survivors flee as more than half are wiped out immediately as the lightning’s come online.  Edtoyi is taken soon after while a wave of 400 frigates pushes me to set up and get moving.

5 down (Achievement!) four to go.  Mabul has my first fortress so I send in a few waves of bombers while my raids take out the ion cannon and counterspy and other annoying defences.  Waves of human raiders and deflectors distract me and pull me away off to Mabul.  Luckily, deflectors have ridiculously low hp and make for an easy wave.    Waves continue to pound against me now that AI progress is getting over 100.

Next, Darkdo, the ARS-world two jumps from my home system (really? I have planets 14 jumps away and it seeds one this close?)  Another wave of deflectors crushed by lightning turrets disrupts my way there but goes down fast.  Decided to set up a beachhead on Darkdo.  Max leftover caps of turrets and slowly start to destroy everything there.  Discover that beachheads of snipers are pretty nice for cleaning out a sector.  FRD my attack forces just to for ease.  A wave of deflector drones spawns on Darkdo while I am taking and is subsequently and quickly wiped out (Seriously 800ish of these go down in less than 30 seconds to a fleet of equal mk or turrets).  Finish the job and plop a station.  Results: Teleport Raiders (useful possibly in conjunction with the starships; as the titles says, for the sake of variety :-P I’m not going to use the new ARS hacks)

Now for the last two in this area… and then there was a cross planet attack of 900 ships… and a wave of fighters, awesome.  Teleport raiders are actually pretty decent on defence when attacks are spread across your front, they lasted through most of the cross planet wave and helped clean up the fighters.

Readying to take Cubulgin and a wave of 600 planes comes in…  and are wiped by my teleport raiders.  My plan was to take Cubulgin the same way that I took Darkdo; however, all forces immediately went after the mobile builder and while it eventually fell enough ships and turrets were left to mop up the AI’s forces.  Once again teleport raiders were pretty useful as they might not last long and may have only half the cap dps of other ships of their mark, but they can get back into battle minutes sooner after being rebuilt and are less than half the cost of a fighter, quite useful.  While my forces mop up a wave of frigates hits Therco but three shipyards boosting raiders there quells the threat nicely.  I also get my first bit of help from the resistance.  Yet another wave of planes while cleaning up Cubulgin that seems to have joined the roaming ships on planets with counterspy’s on them.

Finally, on to Ralto who has built up some reinforcements in the mean time.  I pause to allow a wave of fighters to get ground to dust… and another wave, of bombers, seems the AI doesn’t want me to finish.  Same tactics as Darkdo and Cubulgin, same effect, massive AI losses.  Still It goes down all the same.

Final map:



Plan to get an update when I have had time to scout around now that I have secured territory, a good resource flow, and tons (relatively) of knowledge to spend.

Also, yah.... resources...

welcome to the forums ^^
interesting looking map you got there. And yeah, realistic can be confusing sometimes (which is exactly why I like it).
Already found an ARS so close to your homeworld on a 120 planet map? nice.
Turning all minor factions and AI plots on could be... deadly lol, even if it's just for base game. Playing with the avenger on while you have no golems or spirecraft to take it out seems like a serious challenge to me.

Thanks.  The ARS find really is odd considering the distances that exist on this map.  Also happened to find Factory IV 4 hops from the homeworld at the P8.  Really lucked out to find both within only four hops from my start.  As for the avenger, I have plans.

Welcome to the forums :)  And thanks for recording your experiences; AARs are both entertaining and educational for the DMdevelopers ;)

As for Avenger and no-superweapons; yea, it's a boss fight, but it's quite doable.  Folks had a lot of fun figuring it out shortly after it was implemented.  Fortresses help a lot.

Thanks.  As I said above, I have plans for the avenger.  Fortresses were in their somewhere.

Hiya! Nothing better than seeing more threads in the AAR forum!

What was your starting ship, and any idea on the other AI type?

On a side note, those planet names... lol. Darkdo AND Darkto? Barkboom, Killerasub, Toothpelanc?! I personally am hoping for an epic battle at "Caved'em".

Starting ship was deflector drones as stated at the top of this post (I'm not allowing myself to choose, hence the comment at the top).  No idea on the other AI type yet, doesn't have any really striking features but seems to send harder waves so probably bully or assassin based on its regular reinforcements.  If so, lucked out kinda.  Also, the planets names are the defaults, never got around to going into the files and changing them.  Probably will if/when I finish this game.

Also, if only AI war had mass cave-ins to roflstomp AI ships, If only.


Finally, Kieth, it's something I noticed a while ago.  Is armor piercing supposed to scale with caps like armor or not?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 12:36:03 AM by Sean_K »

Offline zoutzakje

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,046
  • Crosshatch Conqueror
Re: 7/7 Variety Games
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 04:41:57 AM »
nice (AI) progress thus far :P
I hope taking so many planets in an early 120 game is not going to come back at you. AIP at 200 already and you still have a long way to go. In my last 7/7 120 planet game I took exactly 34 planets, which was quite much. I only survived because I made thousands of zombies with the Botnet golem; an option not available for the base game.
But who knows, you might find a way ^^ at least you already found an ARS and the location of an MK IV factory. I remember playing a game once where I couldn't find anything useful in a 7 hop radius from my homeworld lol.
http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,10328.msg100587.html#msg100587

Me? Wrong? Never! I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken...

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: 7/7 Variety Games
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 10:31:30 AM »
Forgot to mention, bonus ship was deflector drones which is annoying as the only laser-using ships so far for the AI is the raider.
Don't forget the laser guardian :)

Quote
Also, to explain before the gameplay for those above who were commenting, the reason for using all minor factions/plots is that I'm the kinda guy who tends to overanalyze strategy games to the point of knowing the most optimal strategy and keeping myself from actually having fun playing the game.  Hence, their supposed to keep the randomness at the point where there's really no optimum strategy and if I keep the same strategy something will cause that to lose its effectiveness before too long.
They certainly do mess with the player a lot; a ton more of that to be found in the expansion plots/factions :)

Quote
Wave of bombers goes to Therco and I rediscover the joy that is building your entire stack of lightning turrets in the middle of an unsuspecting wave then watching the survivors flee as more than half are wiped out immediately as the lightning’s come online.
Yea, those AI ships can't stand disco.

Quote
Next, Darkdo, the ARS-world two jumps from my home system (really? I have planets 14 jumps away and it seeds one this close?)
It must be a bait ;) 

Quote
Also, if only AI war had mass cave-ins to roflstomp AI ships, If only.
One word: Martyrs.

Quote
Is armor piercing supposed to scale with caps like armor or not?
On a ship whose ship cap scales, piercing scales, yes.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Sean_K

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: 7/7 Variety Games
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 07:43:21 PM »
nice (AI) progress thus far :P
I hope taking so many planets in an early 120 game is not going to come back at you. AIP at 200 already and you still have a long way to go. In my last 7/7 120 planet game I took exactly 34 planets, which was quite much. I only survived because I made thousands of zombies with the Botnet golem; an option not available for the base game.
But who knows, you might find a way ^^ at least you already found an ARS and the location of an MK IV factory. I remember playing a game once where I couldn't find anything useful in a 7 hop radius from my homeworld lol.

Eh, Its been pretty average so far to suvive with absolutely no unlocks other than mk II/III Econ Stations.  If the AI bites back sometimes later (not including the avenger), I'd actually prefer that over just lazily going through the game without having to improvise to survive.

Don't forget the laser guardian :)

So that's why those annoying jerks have four times the dps of all guardians but the raiders and zombies who have far less  health to the extent of putting them near the triangle ships.  A few of 'em freakin' went through 11 mk I forcefields in 1-2 minutes with the assistance of a few bombers (although those were mark 3)

Quote
They certainly do mess with the player a lot; a ton more of that to be found in the expansion plots/factions

Thats what I'm working towards essentially, the AI messing with my mind.

Quote
Yea, those AI ships can't stand disco.

I swear that waves started running away sooner after I did that.  :P

Quote
It must be a bait

Maybe, nothing so far but I'm waiting.  ;D

Quote
One word: Martyrs.

Martyrs, close enough.  Still not entirely comparable. (100 equal marks for 1 H/K?)

Quote
On a ship whose ship cap scales, piercing scales, yes.

High Normal Low Ultra-Low Cap Fighter Stats (on Epic)

While health damage, and armor scale, armor piercing does not, at least in the tool tips.

High Normal Low Ultra-Low Fighter vs. Armor Ships

The Armor ships armor stats obviously scale; however, in the reference tabs battle play-outs, fighters always hit for maximum damage even on ultra low when Armors ships have 6000 armor to the fighter's 750 armor piercing.  Probably just a tool tip bug but can be misleading if so on lower caps.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 07:52:20 PM by Sean_K »

Offline zoutzakje

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,046
  • Crosshatch Conqueror
Re: 7/7 Variety Games
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 08:12:56 PM »
don't worry, the AI will strike back :P If it's not through waves, it will certainly give you a hard time on the core / homeworlds ^^
still, a base game only match should be interesting to try someday. I've always played with the 2 expansions and then the third one as well when it came out.
http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,10328.msg100587.html#msg100587

Me? Wrong? Never! I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken...

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: 7/7 Variety Games
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2012, 08:44:15 PM »
Martyrs, close enough.  Still not entirely comparable. (100 equal marks for 1 H/K?)
Ah, yea, nothing to outright bury the clowns running out of the funhouse, no.  Well, other than a full spire capital fleet, that'll bury just about anything but you'll probably lose a chunk of the fleet in the process if it's an H/K or mothership.

Quote
On a ship whose ship cap scales, piercing scales, yes.

High Normal Low Ultra-Low Cap Fighter Stats (on Epic)

While health damage, and armor scale, armor piercing does not, at least in the tool tips.[/quote]Well look at that.  Just checked the code and it's displaying the base stat, not the scaled stat.  No easy fix due to the way that part of the tooltip is built, I'm afraid (it's very different than the armor part), but will put it on my list to fix somehow.

But the actual effect does scale.

Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Sean_K

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: 7/7 Variety Games
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2012, 07:24:45 PM »
Map after my scouts started to hit a wall for distance and I don't really feel like investing another few thousand for better scouts:



Priority is essentialy

9-ARS's and the homeworld at Darkto. As far as I can tell the top leftmost planet is the other homeworld.
8-factory IV's and a bomber IV Fab
7-other Fabs
6-data centers
3-5 - annoying things like eyes fortresses and ions cannons
0-2 - various amounts of resources but doesn't really have anything worth capturing right now.

Waves of high caps are beggining to bring carriers as I had three such waves while scouting this out.  Triangle waves are around the 700 mark now.  The mystery AI received infiltrators at the 200 progress mark.  The counterspy seems to have gotten nothing.

Only new unlocks are grav I's, and both fleet and starship scout 2's.  Thinking hard on what I want to use the 29,500 on.  Will probably wait until I secure the visible ARS's and/or one of the factory IV's unless something comes up.

Current plan is to planet hop to the 8's and 9's and think about which fabs I want from the 7's if any (2 spiders, one armor, and one space plane), 6's meanwhile are sniping targets for raids when I get within range.

Anyway, things are getting harder to the point that its not just a spam turrets and fleet, wave disappear scenario anymore.  The data centers will help out with this but as zoutzakje said, I'll need to be careful on acquiring further planet.  Nice thing is though that since I'm not planning to ever hack a ARS, and the base game doesn't have superterminals,  knowledge raiding really is there as a saving mechanism instead of a choice.

Lastly, if those 500 mk I ships from waves are only about 20 Firepower, I don't dare think of the 18000 firepower exo waves GUDare recieved in that first 10/10.  That and I just can't wait for the first human colony rebellion  :o
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 07:26:26 PM by Sean_K »

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: 7/7 Variety Games
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2012, 10:42:04 AM »
The mystery AI received infiltrators at the 200 progress mark.  The counterspy seems to have gotten nothing.
Sounds like it got a very quiet something ;)

Quote
Only new unlocks are grav I's, and both fleet and starship scout 2's.  Thinking hard on what I want to use the 29,500 on.  Will probably wait until I secure the visible ARS's and/or one of the factory IV's unless something comes up.
That's a pretty big pile of K, if you're still holding off the AI you're in a pretty good position to put together an offensive force.

Quote
Nice thing is though that since I'm not planning to ever hack a ARS, and the base game doesn't have superterminals,  knowledge raiding really is there as a saving mechanism instead of a choice.
Yea, choosing to just take what the ARS's give you does give you some k-raiding flexibility.  Just make sure you do it on planets you're sure you won't capture.

Quote
Lastly, if those 500 mk I ships from waves are only about 20 Firepower, I don't dare think of the 18000 firepower exo waves GUDare recieved in that first 10/10.
The bigger ships have waaaaaay more firepower than the little stuff.  But firepower isn't the best indicator of true strength; 450,000 mkI ships (18000 firepower) would be an unstoppable force of doom to said 18000FP exo waves, but there's no way the game could handle nearly half a million ships fighting all at once :) 

Quote
That and I just can't wait for the first human colony rebellion  :o
Human Colony Rebellions: being terribly inconvenient since 2009 :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!