Arcen Games

Games => A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 => Topic started by: x4000 on December 18, 2012, 08:08:16 PM

Title: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: x4000 on December 18, 2012, 08:08:16 PM
Once again a separate thread so more testers would be likely to notice it: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Valley_2_-_Pre-Beta_Release_Notes#Alpha_.704

This is very close to the final beta, which we now hope to hit tomorrow.  I know I said that yesterday, but there was a bit more cleanup today (mainly in terms of clarity, but also a couple of key bugs) that we wanted to do.  Anyhow, once again, if any testers feel there's something critical for before beta still hanging around, make sure and drop us a line at the email address that we gave you when you started testing!  We definitely want to know if there's anything like that, but things seem to be in better shape than ever.

Lots of good stuff in this one, incidentally. ;)
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: MouldyK on December 18, 2012, 08:26:25 PM
My PC turned off while I was playing multiplayer in my server after I took down the wind on an Ivory Tower tile and when it loaded up again, the tile was cleared, but I am unsure if it registered the Tower's effect as the adjacent tiles were not purified...is this normal and if not, is the Ivory Tower Cave-Lighting powers useful?
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: khadgar on December 18, 2012, 08:37:29 PM
I am quite excited to mess with the new storage of dispatch missions, it will help quite a bit on the harder difficulties!

Here I go!
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Aklyon on December 18, 2012, 08:53:47 PM
Ooh, Dispatch storage. And warping survivors.

This is a pretty nifty update.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 18, 2012, 09:14:35 PM
I think listing the key binding of at least the action button in the very first dialog of the game is going to be pretty important. The bindings don't pop up until afterwards currently.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Nanashi on December 18, 2012, 09:44:29 PM
It's not on the wiki, but you fixed the respawn bug, neat!
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 18, 2012, 10:10:14 PM
Oh, and a minor bug (wasn't worth writing an email over really) is that if you equip a perk to change your max ammo, it only refill your ammo once you leave a region. Eg, I have 30 max ammo, I equip a +10 ammo perk. I enter a new chunk right away and still only have 30 ammo, when I leave it goes up to 40 ammo.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 18, 2012, 10:23:58 PM
I actually haven't been around. Got surprisingly busy. Is there a skip scene function in this game? Given that you restart campaigns fairly regularly, turning off tutorials and cutscenes might be nice to have as options.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 18, 2012, 10:31:22 PM
There's a setting called "Allow Skipping Text Interjections With Cancel Button." It does what you might expect and the default is off.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 18, 2012, 11:24:21 PM
Am Having A Great Time!!  The Updates Are Very Cool!!  I'm Not Dying as much, so that is very, very cool!!

:)

-T

Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Aklyon on December 18, 2012, 11:37:04 PM
I haven't died as much either.

Also, light rocket is best rocket for cave exploring. It can do damage, and it can be a kinda-flashlight if you fire it in front of you enough.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Nanashi on December 19, 2012, 12:29:02 AM
I'm actually starting to burn out on AVWW2 cause of bad luck with random generation - as explained in the tutorial, desert tower expansions are a priority in order to keep the difficulty rate at a manageable level - but for the second world in a row, I've had the vital tile leading to the tower (i.e. there's no way around it) blocked off by a double jump barrier. Maybe I should prioritise finding skelebot facilities instead.

If the game is hardcoded so that you can't unlock the towers until you get doublejump, maybe the message about the towers shouldn't be appearing so early.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: c4sc4 on December 19, 2012, 12:52:59 AM
I'm actually starting to burn out on AVWW2 cause of bad luck with random generation - as explained in the tutorial, desert tower expansions are a priority in order to keep the difficulty rate at a manageable level - but for the second world in a row, I've had the vital tile leading to the tower (i.e. there's no way around it) blocked off by a double jump barrier. Maybe I should prioritise finding skelebot facilities instead.

If the game is hardcoded so that you can't unlock the towers until you get doublejump, maybe the message about the towers shouldn't be appearing so early.

Er, that actually isn't a double jump slice, it seems to fall under an issue I had with a previous slice, it works fine getting from left to right normally, but since slices are flipped to increase the randomness of chunks, in this case, when this slice is flipped, it is impossible to proceed without double jump.

Josh, this particular slice seems to be the "ExteriorFlatJungleGymsHorizontal" slice "zm_StrangeProtuberances"
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Coppermantis on December 19, 2012, 01:33:00 AM
Can chunks be regenerated in this game like they could in AVWW1? The skelebot mainframe room with the vent exit that generated in a place that makes me get stuck upon exiting makes it impossible for me to not take significant damage before I can break free of the glitch so if I could make the game re-generate that room it would be very convinient.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 19, 2012, 02:41:54 AM
I haven't run into anything i haven't been able to cope with, so far. And just got into the rain forest? where it is always raining? Anyway, I just had to come here and say IT IS BEAUTIFUL!!!   :)

It really is, please tell HeavyCat they did a wonderful job!  And you all too, of course!! 

-T


Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Gemzo on December 19, 2012, 03:01:46 AM
So uh +damage% perks do nothing. Just FYI.

Edit: Also you can hack the same SRF multiple times. But "winning" doesn't give you the feat after the first.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Misery on December 19, 2012, 04:03:25 AM
So uh +damage% perks do nothing. Just FYI.

Edit: Also you can hack the same SRF multiple times. But "winning" doesn't give you the feat after the first.


I can confirm this one, the perks arent doing their jobs!   Does indeed seem to be all of the damage type perks.


On another note, I beat the Research Facility from Hell, and I get...... POWERSLIDE?!?!?  I thought it was going to be a double jump or something!   Its out of the way though at least.... facilities AFTER that shouldnt have the old, looooooooong generation anymore, so a big yay to that one!

I defeated the boss that was in the magma room as well, but..... I really did have to jump at him and erase him with the overpowered Ocean Spray to win;  it took all of 2-3 seconds, and he STILL somehow managed to break half of the crates in the room!

Also, on the note of that boss, before I forget to mention it:  Multiple times, he'd spawn IN the magma (under the boxes), and the final time, he actually spawned in a wall (and sorta popped out of it after 10 seconds or so, I didn't try attacking until then)
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Gemzo on December 19, 2012, 04:23:56 AM
So... Enemy damage scales up too quickly now. I can't come up with a good argument behind this but by turn 38 we are just getting killed way too fast. Maybe part of it is that 3 of our level up towers are sealed by "you don't have miniaturize" but even 2 more max HP would just be 1 more zepplin spikeball. Maybe the difficulty is half from tier 2/3 having many homing ammo spells (which don't work in MP still). Even if the +damage perks worked they aren't really needed because we 1-2 shot enemies anyway.

My personal suggestion is to tone down the perk bonus numbers to more reasonable numbers. Rather than have them compete with HP, just make levels add HP (every level or every other level, I dunno). Then you can throw in interesting things like "+5 secondary caliber" or "-1 ammo cost" to fill in for the slots the HP perks used to take up.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 19, 2012, 04:44:05 AM
Started out in over my head, due to well... not knowing the game and then evened out a bit and haven't been dying as much, i haven't gotten to the part where the speed and armor and ammo of the enemy is increasing yet, but guess i will eventually, anyway, just wanted to mention that i love the part where you go into a tile and there is a bit of dialog, it really is nice!  :)

And the art for all the different types is really nice too! I am really, really liking this game, actually more than the first game, don't get me wrong, i really like the first game a lot, but this one is really really nicer, the art and the new music, tell Pablo, I am LOVING his music!  :)   And the enemies seem just right in the levels and the bosses, well, you know the level up bosses seem a bit hard, but usually there is a method that some times takes me several tries to figure out, and then i can get passed them.  :)  One of them got me to 0.1 health and i was backed into a corner, but because i was just out of his reach i stayed alive, all the way to getting him instead of me, which was very unexpected, but way cool to have happen.  :) 

Anyway, I am having a blast and just wanted to let everyone know this is a very cool game! 

-T


Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: khadgar on December 19, 2012, 05:17:54 AM
Even with the big damage bonus numbers of perks, I now feel even MORE compelled to choose HP perks over damage bonuses, given the increased damage of enemies. In a mutual arms race between myself and the monsters, the monsters will win every time because there are more on them. On the most extreme case, a la Journey to Perfection, where everybody kills everybody in one hit, the monsters have a huge advantage. Only 1 of them needs to hit the player, the player needs to hit all of them. We were on turn 40 or so, and it already felt like I was dying in 2 or 3 hits. By turn 60 or 70 I think it might be a case of one-hit kills. All the damage in the world won't help me compensate with one-hit kills.

Not sure what the best compromise between player damage, player hp, and monster damage is, but the current settings still need a smidge of tweaking to feel right.

One of the features carried over from AVWW1 that doesn't seem to fit in is monsters shooting multiple shots as the game goes on. It's cool and all, but having a floating zeppelin that shoots 2 or 3 shots at once every second is ridiculous. It's hard enough to dodge one shot in Valley2, but three or more? Yikes. So you're GOING to get hit, and when you do, you die pretty fast due to the aforementioned scaling. Anyway, just a thought, I'm sure enemies with multi-shots can be worked in beyond just a global "2x shot mode activated" thing going on.

One question I have is, are enemies going to be assigned an attack pattern rather than their current AI? So, instead of [shoot every 1 secondss], will some of them be [shoot three times, wait 5 seconds, shoot three times], or whatnot? As of right now, it's easy to feel "stuck" pinned down behind a wall, with a bunch of land-squids or swamp-demons or hell-zeppelins shooting at you nonstop, with no sense of a "break" coming, never feeling like there is a "good" time to leap out and make your stand. I would really like to see these kinds of pauses put into enemy attack cycles, but I understand if it's too difficult to come with with good patterns that don't make the enemies too easy.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Misery on December 19, 2012, 05:29:45 AM
So... Enemy damage scales up too quickly now. I can't come up with a good argument behind this but by turn 38 we are just getting killed way too fast. Maybe part of it is that 3 of our level up towers are sealed by "you don't have miniaturize" but even 2 more max HP would just be 1 more zepplin spikeball. Maybe the difficulty is half from tier 2/3 having many homing ammo spells (which don't work in MP still). Even if the +damage perks worked they aren't really needed because we 1-2 shot enemies anyway.

My personal suggestion is to tone down the perk bonus numbers to more reasonable numbers. Rather than have them compete with HP, just make levels add HP (every level or every other level, I dunno). Then you can throw in interesting things like "+5 secondary caliber" or "-1 ammo cost" to fill in for the slots the HP perks used to take up.

I dunno, it seems mostly fine to me.

Though, the level-up towers, with their extremely random placement, probably shouldnt really be "gated" like that (requiring specific feats).... since you really do NEED them.  Though, I havent actually run into any such towers yet myself.   Unless their generation onto the worldmap can somehow be done a bit better;  like, only towers that are really far from the overlord's castle would ever be gated, since as you get further and further away from it, theoretically your power is increasing and you're gaining feats as you do so.

As the perks go, the values on them are pretty much fine now.... too much lower than that, and they would become not worth it, or just outright trivial/useless.  A 50% power boost seems to work out pretty well.   Particularly considering the effort you have to go through to get these, with the towers AND all the caves, as well as the constantly increasing difficulty & enemy power level, the perks really need to have alot of "impact" to work out.    Yet none of them are so incredibly strong that they'll just let you annihilate everything.

I will say though, perks that add caliber to spells would be nice!  Though, they should be pretty rare, because that could be a very strong effect depending on how it's used.  Might also be hard to balance though..... a value of +5 would probably not be worth it at all, but +20 might be too much.


I do like the perk system in general though, when it's working properly.

Even with the big damage bonus numbers of perks, I now feel even MORE compelled to choose HP perks over damage bonuses, given the increased damage of enemies. In a mutual arms race between myself and the monsters, the monsters will win every time because there are more on them. On the most extreme case, a la Journey to Perfection, where everybody kills everybody in one hit, the monsters have a huge advantage. Only 1 of them needs to hit the player, the player needs to hit all of them. We were on turn 40 or so, and it already felt like I was dying in 2 or 3 hits. By turn 60 or 70 I think it might be a case of one-hit kills. All the damage in the world won't help me compensate with one-hit kills.

Not sure what the best compromise between player damage, player hp, and monster damage is, but the current settings still need a smidge of tweaking to feel right.

One of the features carried over from AVWW1 that doesn't seem to fit in is monsters shooting multiple shots as the game goes on. It's cool and all, but having a floating zeppelin that shoots 2 or 3 shots at once every second is ridiculous. It's hard enough to dodge one shot in Valley2, but three or more? Yikes. So you're GOING to get hit, and when you do, you die pretty fast due to the aforementioned scaling. Anyway, just a thought, I'm sure enemies with multi-shots can be worked in beyond just a global "2x shot mode activated" thing going on.

One question I have is, are enemies going to be assigned an attack pattern rather than their current AI? So, instead of [shoot every 1 secondss], will some of them be [shoot three times, wait 5 seconds, shoot three times], or whatnot? As of right now, it's easy to feel "stuck" pinned down behind a wall, with a bunch of land-squids or swamp-demons or hell-zeppelins shooting at you nonstop, with no sense of a "break" coming, never feeling like there is a "good" time to leap out and make your stand. I would really like to see these kinds of pauses put into enemy attack cycles, but I understand if it's too difficult to come with with good patterns that don't make the enemies too easy.


Hmm, I'm curious, what difficulty are you playing on?   I'm on "skilled", for the combat difficulty, and I'm not dying in 2-3 hits.... Heck, I only turn on the perks for the full 7 hearts that I can currently have if I'm going into a research facility or something like that.... more often than not, I've got about 4 or 5 hearts, and then damage boosts, and Risktaker is often on.   I'm on turn 37 in my current game.


As the enemy patterns go.... that's probably alot harder to balance.   I think most of them are too easy, to be honest.... even the squid things dont give me much trouble, and the zeppelins rarely get a chance to fire.   I'll probably jump the difficulty up in my next run, and see how that is.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: tigersfan on December 19, 2012, 07:36:30 AM
c4sc4 - Thanks, that's a huge help.

Nanashi - c4sc4 is right, that's a bug, not a double jump slice. I've fixed that one for the next version. Sorry about that.

Gemzo and Khadgar - What difficulty level are you guys playing on?
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: MouldyK on December 19, 2012, 08:42:09 AM
(http://s1.postimage.org/s15eh6rgu/Screenshot_2012_12_19_13_35_58.jpg)

I'll just leave this here. :3

Hint: It's the red text saying it can't find the directory.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 19, 2012, 09:03:10 AM
I was playing a new world and the very first level up windmill required a double jump to progress in. Not sure if that was intended or not in some of the windmill levels. Screenshot attached. Is there a way to tell what the actual slice is?

Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: tigersfan on December 19, 2012, 09:09:25 AM
Not for you, but I can. Would you please send me the world file with you in that room? Thanks!
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 19, 2012, 09:26:07 AM
Sent!
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 19, 2012, 09:36:53 AM
Sorry about the double post, but it might be a good idea to put a link on the title page to the arcen forums (or an email addy if that's preferred) for people to send beta feedback once it hits open beta.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Neko_Baron on December 19, 2012, 10:00:21 AM
I'm also feeling pretty burnt out on playing and making a new world every patch to evaluate the difficulty levels, its great the games getting patched quickly but at the same time it feels like there's a huge rush.

Biggest issue is knowing if any bugs we report are "being delt with"/"not a bug"/"already fixed but not shown in change log yet", obviously its always the same issue with testing if someone doesn't have the time to collaborate all this but I get the feeling a lot of us tend to report the same issues.

Arcen want to consider a separate AVWW2 sub forum yet? at least then people with multiple issues could post all the data together in one place plus suggestions can be discussed openly, I know I suggested survivors being able to warp recently and it was nice to see it added though I'm curious if anyone else was thinking of it too previously. Plus I don't feel larger suggestions belong in just emails with it being a community driven game.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 19, 2012, 10:29:45 AM
I just reread up through some of the previous posts and one I had been thinking myself that would be a great is the add caliber to spells perk. I would also add a perk for increased particle speed, cooldown reduction, and attack range (this would obviously only impact bolt/particle type attacks and not things like whips or touch spells.)
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: tigersfan on December 19, 2012, 10:32:47 AM
There is a bit of a rush, we really want to hit beta this week (and we will).

As for feedback, I'll be creating a Mantis section for Valley 2 really soon (maybe today).

As for responses to the e-mails. Sorry. To be honest, we've gotten a TON of e-mailed feedback, but, there is really only one person (me) reading them directly. I can assure you, I've read each and every word for each and every e-mail that has come in, but, as I said in the instructions, I just don't have time to respond to every one of the (probably hundreds of) e-mails that we've gotten.
And yes, some of you do report the same issues, but, this is actually ok. It gives us an idea of how frequent an issue is coming up, and helps us prioritize what to do next.

As for a forum, I'm not sure that's necessary yet. If folks aren't spending a lot of time talking about the first game, I don't see why we can't use this one for both games right now.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: MouldyK on December 19, 2012, 10:55:06 AM
Maybe when things get in full swing, you could maybe just make a Valley 1 sub-thread here in case people who later play it have questions? I mean if development is gonna be Valley 2 from this point on, then that could be a good compromise.

Also, Neko, thank you for the survivors using warp idea. It is really helping add an extra layer onto things for me as I am judging when I know it is safe to move people around without the Overlord following and gobbling them. Hoping to play 1-2 more games after this one before you launch next year.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: x4000 on December 19, 2012, 10:58:18 AM
I've just created a mantis project for this game -- go nuts!
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 19, 2012, 11:07:34 AM
Prepare for the flood gates to really open!

You ain't seen nothing yet ;)
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Gemzo on December 19, 2012, 01:54:47 PM
Gemzo and Khadgar - What difficulty level are you guys playing on?
Hero/Rook/Normal was that world.

Misery, what turn did you reach on this new version?

Also I just remembered those "miniaturize" gates didn't even have gravestones, by the way. Either they're unintended or you forgot to add one to that slice, I guess.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Aklyon on December 19, 2012, 01:57:00 PM
I spy a new release notes page~
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Gemzo on December 19, 2012, 04:45:16 PM
So I just remembered I thought there may have been a reason for the extremely frequent boss encounters. I noticed mercenary hotlines were always guarded by a boss preceding it. Perhaps the hotlines being so common in abandoned town tiles was what caused so many bosses?
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: x4000 on December 19, 2012, 04:47:47 PM
Ooh, that's probably what it was!
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Jerebaldo1 on December 19, 2012, 06:06:12 PM
My male characters waste Merc tokens on 1-900 numbers; is this a bug or a feature?  ;D
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: khadgar on December 19, 2012, 07:54:52 PM
Mantis? Really and truly? I'm home!

<3 databases
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: BobTheJanitor on December 19, 2012, 10:28:26 PM
I don't see a .705 thread yet, but I just started a new game under it and is it just me or are some regions a little too long now? Like, having to go through 3 or 4 buildings with overworld stretches between them to reach the end. Or maybe that's intended? Right now since it's just the same handful of enemies over and over it starts to feel like a chore to do the platforming sections. With almost no exploration like in AVWW1 you're really just trying to get from point A to point B through a level that's effectively on rails. It's rather... boring? Anyone else getting that feeling?
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: khadgar on December 19, 2012, 10:55:40 PM
I don't see a .705 thread yet, but I just started a new game under it and is it just me or are some regions a little too long now? Like, having to go through 3 or 4 buildings with overworld stretches between them to reach the end. Or maybe that's intended? Right now since it's just the same handful of enemies over and over it starts to feel like a chore to do the platforming sections. With almost no exploration like in AVWW1 you're really just trying to get from point A to point B through a level that's effectively on rails. It's rather... boring? Anyone else getting that feeling?

AFAIK it isn't anything new, but I agree. I actively avoid purifying zones that have buildings on them because it takes too long... until you get movement abilities which let you jump over buildings! :)
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: BobTheJanitor on December 19, 2012, 11:02:24 PM
Maybe I was getting lucky or just wasn't going to city tiles before or something. But the difference between a desert tile with nothing in it and an abandoned town tile can be something like 5 to 7 minutes of extra running and gunning. It just overstays its welcome a bit, I guess. Probably once the platforming side of the game gets beefed up with some more enemies and behaviors it won't be so bad.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 19, 2012, 11:04:59 PM
Heh, I actually like the bigger regions, because frankly the smaller ones feel too short and aren't much of a challenge.

I do hate coming out a building and spawning -in- a monster though.

It is hard to really discuss balance when only an eight of the monsters are in though. Or rather, it's easy to discuss but might not really be valid when we have more (maybe tougher) enemies.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: khadgar on December 19, 2012, 11:07:37 PM
Well I don't know about you guys, but I keep getting stuck.

Can't purify any more tiles, game says I need to level up my mage classes.
Can't level up class, since overlord keep requires double jump to get through for some reason (bug probably).
Can't get double jump, because I can't purify any more tiles.

Time to delete my overlord keep world folder to get a new keep, hopefully with less impossible jumps.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 19, 2012, 11:13:57 PM
I had the issue of needing double jump to proceed in the overlord's fortress to get tier 3 mage spells. Never occurred to me that it might be a bug. I could email that world folder if it is a bug.

I didn't keep playing that world to try and find another skelebot research station as a new patch came out though.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: MouldyK on December 19, 2012, 11:51:31 PM
Well I don't know about you guys, but I keep getting stuck.

Can't purify any more tiles, game says I need to level up my mage classes.
Can't level up class, since overlord keep requires double jump to get through for some reason (bug probably).
Can't get double jump, because I can't purify any more tiles.

Time to delete my overlord keep world folder to get a new keep, hopefully with less impossible jumps.

I had the issue of needing double jump to proceed in the overlord's fortress to get tier 3 mage spells. Never occurred to me that it might be a bug. I could email that world folder if it is a bug.

I didn't keep playing that world to try and find another skelebot research station as a new patch came out though.

The Tier 3 spell jump thing also foiled my game as well. :(

LayZboy put it on the mantis. Is this your wall: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=10037
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Martyn van Buren on December 19, 2012, 11:53:58 PM
You go to the overlord's keep to level up spells?  I assumed it came out of the "level up here" regions...

Did I miss a help notice?  How was I supposed to find this out?
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: MouldyK on December 19, 2012, 11:55:55 PM
You go to the overlord's keep to level up spells?  I assumed it came out of the "level up here" regions...

Did I miss a help notice?  How was I supposed to find this out?

When level 5 (The game says 4, but that's a lie to me as it's always 5), all windstorm machines get a shield around them and it says you must to go Overlord tower to get better spells.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 19, 2012, 11:58:34 PM
That is the same wall actually. Gone ahead and posted my support. Either needs a marker or a way up.

Edit: And every 4 perk levels you can go to the Overlord's keep to steal the next tier of mage spells.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: khadgar on December 20, 2012, 12:08:01 AM
Posted this on mantis, but I'll post it here for anyone who is stuck trying to get past the overlord's keep:

WORKAROUNDS FOR THIS BUG, FOR THOSE WHO ARE STUCK:
*Change your profile name until you get the class that has storm fist (if you are at the appropriate level)
*Use one of the fire espers projectiles or the esper itself to 'bounce' to a higher point.
*Delete the folder for the offending level, it will regenerate and possibly allow you to pass
*Use the bug I listed here (http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=10041) to jump very high :P
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 20, 2012, 12:40:33 AM
Since I was on mantis already, figured why not add a few suggestions. Most of them aren't anything immediately in need of addressing.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: khadgar on December 20, 2012, 02:55:10 AM
Well! I killed the Henchmen for once, and that was some interesting dialogue. I'm guessing you can't actually kill Elder, since SPOILERS he takes over for Demonica once you destroy the main oblivion crystal. I guess someone had to.

Actually I couldn't kill Lilith either. That makes sense given what you learn about her, but there IS an achievement for it, I just haven't figured it out. Fought her around 8 times, kept not being dead. What am I missing...?
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Misery on December 20, 2012, 08:15:33 AM
Well, I see 0.705 is out, definitely good.   Yay, the perks work fully now.  The combat and sidescrolling bits in general seem pretty well balanced with that functioning properly, though I notice that the henchmen seem VERY quick to die at times (which was the case before as well).  They are extremely vulnerable to certain types of spells.  Like the "wave" sort, that makes an arc of explosions appear in front of you, or the last one I fought, who went down to Insect Rocket, which also kept shattering his shots (the pattern with the blue bullets that boomerang back at you).


Also, alot of very funky glitches with chunks.   I'll attach the error log on this post here, I saw the error more than once.   Vertical areas also have gone all "jagged", is the best way to put it.   Devoid of any sloping tiles, for the most part. I saw this both in caves and in a tower.  Impassible chunks (requiring feats I dont have) are still an issue, but as this usually seems to happen in caves, it hasnt stopped my progress so far;  I can get IN just fine, but cant get back out without the poison pill.   Also I kept spawning in the sky, when entering the cave tiles.

The main glitch that I'm aware of beyond all of that is still the one with the projectiles.   For example, Insect Rocket; normally it's supposed to explode into a small burst of shrapnel.  If it's close to a wall when it does this though, it may not produce any at all.  I had one point where I was firing along a low cieling, and even though it never touched the ceiling or a wall, it refused to burst properly.  This is definitely the most common bug that I encounter in the game (happens with many spells of all sorts of types).


Other than those things.... no real problems currently.   Though, I didn't get very much time with the game today, so not much feedback to give right now.   The challenge is ramping up nicely, and the perk system does a very good job of offering a trade-off between having more health, or having more stats.   Really like how that works out.   



I also had the most bloody stupid death yet.   Went into a cave, past lots of those aggravating ice bats, fought Lilith, go into the room with the perk icon, pop a couple of annoying balloon things, storm dash towards the perk, and..... die RIGHT in front of it because I rammed a crawler.   Not one that wasnt visible either, no, just one I didn't NOTICE.   I swear the game set that up on purpose, it did!  The RNG is just out to get me!


And congrats on beta!   This game is really coming along very nicely.   Enjoyed the heck outta it so far.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: tigersfan on December 20, 2012, 08:25:51 AM
I'm confused about the impassible slices in caves. I can see how that would be a problem if you're going up, but, normally caves go down and across. You shouldn't really need to go up. Can you send me an example of where this is an issue?
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: MouldyK on December 20, 2012, 08:31:26 AM
*Delete the folder for the offending level, it will regenerate and possibly allow you to pass

YAY! My world will not be destroyed today! Danger averted thanks to you. 8)
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Misery on December 20, 2012, 10:08:31 AM
I'm confused about the impassible slices in caves. I can see how that would be a problem if you're going up, but, normally caves go down and across. You shouldn't really need to go up. Can you send me an example of where this is an issue?

Well, caves, yeah, you go down, and then across, and then maybe down some more, and whatever.... and once you've got the perk thing, there's generally a door that says "back to the surface".   But it never takes you all the way out.... it will always place me somewhere in that first downward section, but still well below the actual surface.  So in order to get out "normally", that is, without just using the Poison Pill, I have to go up.... and that's when I run into this issue.

There doesnt really seem to be any death penalty in this so far (unless that changes in later parts of the game), so for now, it's not a big deal, but.... I wanted to point it out nonetheless. 

Quick pic of this type of slice:

(http://i.imgur.com/g95aU.png)

That's not very far down from the very top, but it's above the door that the perk room spat me out into.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: tigersfan on December 20, 2012, 10:14:31 AM
Ahh, ok. I gotcha. Thanks.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Martyn van Buren on December 20, 2012, 02:13:09 PM
You go to the overlord's keep to level up spells?  I assumed it came out of the "level up here" regions...

Did I miss a help notice?  How was I supposed to find this out?

When level 5 (The game says 4, but that's a lie to me as it's always 5), all windstorm machines get a shield around them and it says you must to go Overlord tower to get better spells.

Oh!  So you need to visit like 25 windmills over the course of the game (there are five mage class levels, right?)?  I had assumed I was only going to go to five and each was going to mark a major turning point in the game, so I haven't been pressing toward the second.  I gather from correspondence with Josh that Arcen is planning to put a bit more top-level stategy guidance into the game, but I think this is something that should be highlighted, or at least addressed.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 20, 2012, 02:16:51 PM
I actually didn't understand that either. In my game, I've got like 6 visible level up towers that I haven't been building towards because I didn't know whether I needed to or not. All leveling up seemed to give me was a perk slot I needed to fill with tokens from caves, so I headed to caves.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 20, 2012, 02:19:06 PM
You should still get 2 perks each level up. The reason for visiting caves is to give more choices or if none of those two perks appeal to you. And I was able to pass through the overlord's fortress doors at level 4 and 8 respectively. I didn't need to wait until 5/10 I don't believe. I haven't tried leveling up to 6/11 without grabbing the next mage tier though.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 20, 2012, 03:02:02 PM
Well, those perks were like +5% damage to spells, which as far as I could tell did not actually reduce the amount of hits it took to kill things, so I was farming for extra HP pretty much. I was on the second closed alpha build.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 20, 2012, 10:53:36 PM
Hi,
            I am having a small problem with dispatching rebels on the world map, I just leveled up, I think i am only level 2 or 3, not very far, but anyway, Demonica is out on one tile from the Keep, and I was hoping to get my people farther and farther from him, so i went to a tile and it says i can dispatch my survivors on a mission, like rally or look for scrap or food and when i choose those I get a pop-up (not the one with people on it, but just a blank one) that says i have 0% chance of success. Even the rally one, which i thought was supposed to be 100%.

Anyway, I will send along my world file, if i can remember how to do that, :)  Thank you for everything! The game other wise has been beautiful and wonderful!  :)

-T



p.s.  just thought i might make a new additional world and see if that fixes it!  :)  will let you know.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: madcow on December 20, 2012, 10:59:00 PM
What are the coordinates of the spot you're trying to send survivors to? Were there any specific ones you were trying to send?

Edit: Nevermind, this definitely seems buggy.

Double edit: I went through and cleared a windstorm generator and then was able to assign a mission both for the new dispatch and for the one you aren't able to assign. So, I would suggest gameplay wise just running a mission and then assigning two orders. But something is definitely buggy there.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Gemzo on December 21, 2012, 03:35:35 AM
I don't think it's buggy. I think all your resistance fighters have done an action that turn already. I remember seeing just 0% rate with no people listed when I tried bringing up a mission like that. There does need text explaining it, though... Or just like, gray them out instead of removing them from the list.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 21, 2012, 05:54:41 AM
Thank you Madcow and Gemzo, I think you are right, perhaps i have already used my dispatch for that turn, but yes, a popup saying 'you have already used your dispatch for this turn' would be wonderful!   :)

Thank you guys, take care,

-T


Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Misery on December 21, 2012, 06:00:24 AM
Thank you Madcow and Gemzo, I think you are right, perhaps i have already used my dispatch for that turn, but yes, a popup saying 'you have already used your dispatch for this turn' would be wonderful!   :)

Thank you guys, take care,

-T


Well, the "dispatch survivors on mission" option in the menu is SUPPOSED to turn red and say "already dispatched this turn" once you've done so.  There's definitely a bug there, one way or another.   Doesnt seem to be one that pops up much at least.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 21, 2012, 06:11:33 AM
Mine said "Already dispatched survivors this turn" when I did a short test of the beta yesterday. So it's definitely supposed to.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Panopticon on December 21, 2012, 06:55:35 AM
I just want to pop in and say how much I love that the boss and his henchmen are forces out in the world actively trying to stop you. It makes the game feel so alive.

Really enjoying the beta so far, even though I haven't had a lot of time with it.
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 21, 2012, 07:28:44 AM
Yep, I love that too. I always was a bit miffed at the "Boss in the Castle/Tower/Dungeon"-whatever thing. :D
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: Misery on December 21, 2012, 07:48:40 AM
Yep, I love that too. I always was a bit miffed at the "Boss in the Castle/Tower/Dungeon"-whatever thing. :D

Yeah, same here.


Though, on the other hand... Demonaica can be pretty freaking aggravating at times.  Always stomping on whatever I most want him NOT to stomp on.

And those blasted portals!  I wish there was like, a mission type that could "seal" them somehow;  and force the boss to spend an extra turn breaking them if he's going to pass through to that particular spot.  Too many portals unlocked on the map can make things really nasty, and you cant undo them.....
Title: Re: Valley 2 alpha v0.704 released!
Post by: MouldyK on December 21, 2012, 08:10:08 AM
Mine said "Already dispatched survivors this turn" when I did a short test of the beta yesterday. So it's definitely supposed to.

Well if you build up more than 1 dispatch turn and use all of them in one of the turns, then it assumes that since you still have one left, you can move people, even though you cannot. The trick is to make the people do 2 missions seperately when there are 2 turns waiting, not bundle it all into making all the people go one place.