Author Topic: Transmogrify into bat....  (Read 1820 times)

Offline Misery

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Transmogrify into bat....
« on: March 29, 2013, 09:11:28 AM »
Posting this here because I couldnt find a Mantis listing for this, and also because the Mantis site is flipping out.   The forum is acting up pretty bad too (at least for me), but not AS bad, I can actually load some stuff and hopefully post this....

Anyway, so, messed around with the bat transformation in my current game, and...  it occurs to me that this spell might be just a TAD overpowered and full of exploits.    I realized this when I was able to fly over the entirety of a Citadel area..... which would normally be very long and dangerous.... but as the bat, I just flew right over the whole thing, up high enough that nothing could even challenge me.   I had to drop down maybe once because of a wall, and to get the wind thing at the end, but that's about it.

But it works in pretty much any surface zone, as it lets you simply skip most sections.   Even makes some enemies much easier to deal with, allowing you to approach at angles that you normally would not be able to.   It's like a win button.  The condition of it turning off when you get hit simply doesnt matter.   Heck, even those normally-horrible imp balls, the big black things that spew out 4 of those flying nightmares if you attack it, those become easy to beat because of how maneuverable the bat is, plus the lightning spell I had with that.... normally ONE of those flying jerks is a threat, but with that, 4 of them were nothing.

I get that the final tier spells are supposed to be stronger than the rest, and for the most part, they're all fine, but that one might do with some changes (though I cant think of exactly what to suggest there).   It's the only truly exploitable spell I've seen in the game.


A couple of small things while I'm thinking about it too:    Going through the Citadel areas now, I notice.... there is no "control panel" that you have to smash, as the description says.... heck, there was no BUILDING anywhere.   It was just a vast overland area with a wind-generator at the end (is this how they're supposed to be?), but the description makes it sound like you're infiltrating the place to knock it's shields down or something.   Oh, and I didn't actually need the triple-jump with these.... I did the other one without the bat, and I didn't have triple-jump yet (the RNG was really, really mean about where it put that final science lab, so I havent opened it yet, but I attempted this place anyway).


That though..... really the only problems I've found on my current run.    Though, I have noticed that the.... er..... I forget what they're called, I've been calling them "amp" towers, as per their original name.... the thing that does that massive purification effect.... those things, half the time, they're basically useless, because using one often opens up a Deep Gate, which is an incredibly bad idea.    Excellent otherwise though.... I think this game really did come out very well indeed.

Offline madcow

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Re: Transmogrify into bat....
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2013, 01:57:05 PM »
I can't comment on bat balance specifically. But from my own experience at that point when you have triple jump and a decentish health reserve the outdoor areas are fairly easy even if they're lengthy. I honestly went through the level by simply triple jumping the whole way, bypassing maybe 2/3s of the difficulty. Indoor zones could still be fairly difficult though. Especially if it had ghosts in it.

I could see bat transformation having a duration on it and perhaps a lengthy cooldown, though honestly I think (again without having used it) that the zones it can let you cheese past are ones you can triple jump through anyways, and in general aren't really spots you need help with.  Not that I'm really against a bat rebalancing.

That said, if the Arcen crew ever goes back to more balance patching in AVWW2, there are some things that could use addressing.  Those wall crabs being one of the most glaring issues I can think of offhand.

Offline LaughingThesaurus

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Re: Transmogrify into bat....
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2013, 08:53:13 PM »
I think being powerful enough endgame to practically skip outdoor areas is probably acceptable. Now, flying over completely unscathed as a bat, probably not. It'd be nice for there to be some kind of limiting factor there. The thing is, you spend the whole game working your way up to the point of triple jump and tier 5 mage classes. If anything, they should have that kind of game changing/breaking power. It's just preferable to limit it to light game breaking with some kind of limitation.
Think: Saints Row The Third. You are absurdly overpowered but, well, let's just say the game has ways of dealing with that.

Offline Misery

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Re: Transmogrify into bat....
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2013, 02:22:51 AM »
I can't comment on bat balance specifically. But from my own experience at that point when you have triple jump and a decentish health reserve the outdoor areas are fairly easy even if they're lengthy. I honestly went through the level by simply triple jumping the whole way, bypassing maybe 2/3s of the difficulty. Indoor zones could still be fairly difficult though. Especially if it had ghosts in it.

I could see bat transformation having a duration on it and perhaps a lengthy cooldown, though honestly I think (again without having used it) that the zones it can let you cheese past are ones you can triple jump through anyways, and in general aren't really spots you need help with.  Not that I'm really against a bat rebalancing.

That said, if the Arcen crew ever goes back to more balance patching in AVWW2, there are some things that could use addressing.  Those wall crabs being one of the most glaring issues I can think of offhand.

Eh, the wall crabs arent too tough, not when compared to some of the other crawler types.   I find that the best thing against them is the Trident spells, which can generally plow right through their little energy balls, since the Tridents have a base caliber of Normal, not Low.

Offline madcow

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Re: Transmogrify into bat....
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2013, 09:55:35 AM »
My issue with the wall crabs is in the vertical building slices, those shots stay alive for far too long, and you have issues where shafts are pretty much impassible due to their attack from 2 or 3 screens away. They just need the life lowered drastically. As they feel cheap rather than difficult.

Offline Histidine

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Re: Transmogrify into bat....
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 01:56:02 AM »
Bat is in the ammo spell slot, it could just use ammo to function.