Author Topic: So THAT'S how Valley 2 makes you hate RNGs  (Read 1746 times)

Offline Aquohn

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So THAT'S how Valley 2 makes you hate RNGs
« on: April 06, 2013, 01:00:11 PM »
NOTE: This probably belongs in the stories subforum, but it doesn't look like anyone would read it there.

So, I was playing your bog-standard average game, with all difficulties at their default levels, when I whittled the game down to one Citadel.

So far so good. The only major roadblocks were that the tier 3 and tier 5 classes sucked so bad I used the previous tiers (yes, even for the fight with Demonaica; I only died 3-4 times ;)).

Then, out of the blue, there came a lightning storm when I purified the last Citadel (the spell that disrupts cover). A bit of basic maths should tell you that the odds of a power-9 soldier surviving a turn on the Citadel with a lightning storm, even at max morale, are...unpleasant, to say the least.

So I moved the nearby soldier I had on standby out of the way, and basically derped around the map for a bit (I suddenly felt a lot less bad about turning into a bat and skipping entire levels altogether).

And finally, after four turns of mindless derping, the lightning storm was finally gone, and it was time to take out the final Citadel, and kill Demonaica, and...

NOT!

The RNG decided to cast ANOTHER four turns of lightning. Now this is far more than just a minor inconvenience; it sets me back 8 turns, which is more than enough for everything to gain a very significant boost in power. For example, I discovered, for the first time in my Demonaica-slaying career, the World-Map Auroch Warrior. In addition, my wimpy tier-4 classes suddenly became a lot less effective in the final battle.

Now, the important question: is the possibility of this sort of nonsense occuring unfair, or am I just plain unlucky?

I suppose that's for the devs to decide (I still won in the end, by the way. It's just that I didn't remember dying so much in the final leg).
Arcen in Summary:
thank you so much, RNG
It aims to please!

Or is that "to kill"?  Hmm.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: So THAT'S how Valley 2 makes you hate RNGs
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2013, 01:07:46 PM »
It's supposed to keep up area-denial spells on the citadels, though its sending the same one twice in a row is mild bad luck. 

Why would lightning, specifically, make it unlikely for your soldier to survive long enough to get the job done?  9 hp should be enough to last the turn moving there and the turn standing there.  If there's other stuff getting in the way (impasses) you can do one part, pull the soldier back and move another 9-hp one in, or whatever works.
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Offline Aquohn

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Re: So THAT'S how Valley 2 makes you hate RNGs
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2013, 01:20:43 PM »
No, the Citadel isn't obstructed; it's standing right there.

Just to confirm, lightning is the one that disrupts cover, right? Yeah, that kinda blew the danger to 120% at least (sorry, I have terrible memory) at full morale. When the rampaging monsters killed a few people and smashed a few structures, the morale dropped to about 80-85+ and the danger rose to 140%. If I remember correctly, failing a damage roll would cause the roll to be taken again with the failure chance reduced by 5%, right? Isn't this a tad unfair?
Arcen in Summary:
thank you so much, RNG
It aims to please!

Or is that "to kill"?  Hmm.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: So THAT'S how Valley 2 makes you hate RNGs
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2013, 01:26:38 PM »
No, the Citadel isn't obstructed; it's standing right there.

Just to confirm, lightning is the one that disrupts cover, right? Yeah, that kinda blew the danger to 120% at least (sorry, I have terrible memory) at full morale. When the rampaging monsters killed a few people and smashed a few structures, the morale dropped to about 80-85+ and the danger rose to 140%. If I remember correctly, failing a damage roll would cause the roll to be taken again with the failure chance reduced by 5%, right? Isn't this a tad unfair?
Hmm, yea, I can see that being an issue.  Lightning basically multiplies the wound chance by 4.

I can make lightning like firestorm in that it won't be considered eligible for the "free" casting on the citadels.  It could still happen if you had a cluster of NPCs near a citadel and the overlord's normal spell came up, but that's unlikely to lock you out for a long period of time.

Would that fix it?
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Aquohn

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Re: So THAT'S how Valley 2 makes you hate RNGs
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2013, 01:32:06 PM »
Yeah, that's pretty much the first fix that came to mind. In all honesty I wouldn't have minded if it just came up once, but twice was just...[expletive(s) omitted]. And even once could prove potentially game-breaking on higher difficulties.

Thanks for taking the time to look into this, though :).

By the way, a couple of pretty severe bugs that merit mention here:
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=11047
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=11048
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 08:02:21 PM by Aquohn »
Arcen in Summary:
thank you so much, RNG
It aims to please!

Or is that "to kill"?  Hmm.

Offline madcow

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Re: So THAT'S how Valley 2 makes you hate RNGs
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 12:47:29 PM »
I've had this happen to me as well. The issue with the lightning spell is, even if you prep the area with fortresses/etc, once Demonica casts it, you still get something like 150%+ danger to NPCS. I moved a full strength soldier in (twice) and he just outright died in one turn. And then it was cast again afterwards as the second free spell. On citadels as a free cast it is a bit much, as its basically the same as making the tile a no-work zone.