Author Topic: Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.  (Read 5442 times)

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.
« on: February 10, 2012, 09:34:52 pm »
I know it's not out yet, but I've already got questions about this:
Quote from: Beta 0.574 patch notes
New Warp Mechanics

    All Warp Potions have been removed from the game.

    There are now stationary "Warp Stones" seeded at various places in the world. While standing near one you can warp to another warp stone in the same region (if a dungeon map node has a purple dot in the lower-right corner, it has a warp stone), assuming you've visited that chunk before, using the same warp controls as before.

    Also, there are now one-way teleporters in each stash room (that is further than 3 links away from the exit) in a building, to help cut down on backtracking a bit more without having actual warp stones in so many rooms.

Will these warp stones still allow you to select your warp destination or are they automatically taking you somewhere? I ask because I can see uses for both warping back to the start of a building when you want to keep exploring the next building over (and you may be a few maze rooms in), and warping back to the entrance chunk when you're done with that whole area and ready to leave back to the world map.

Edit: Slight edit to remove a response to a post in the last thread that didn't make sense at the top of this post now. ;)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 10:58:10 pm by BobTheJanitor »

Offline x4000

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Re: Re: AVWW Beta 0.573 "Vital Signs Improving" Released!
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2012, 09:43:29 pm »
Warping works the same as before, except:

1. You don't need a potion.

2. You have to be standing next to a warp stone (this big object larger than you) to do it).

3. You can only warp to other chunks you've visited that also have a warp stone.

Beyond that, it's mechanically the same as before.  It's more or less what the brainstorming thread came up with a couple of months ago, but we only have had time to implemented it now.
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Re: AVWW Beta 0.573 "Vital Signs Improving" Released!
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2012, 10:17:46 pm »
3. You can only warp to other chunks you've visited that also have a warp stone.

I was with you until here, then I got confused again. Let's say I have just cleared out some stash room and found the warp stone and am ready to get out. Do my options include:

- Warping to the entrance door to the building (same effect you get right now when you click the first room in the building on the map)?
- Warping to the entrance chunk so I can take two steps and get back to the world map?

Or when you talk about warping to does that refer specifically to returning to an area that you've already been to in the past, like when you warp out to heal up and restock on supplies and then come back?

Offline x4000

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Re: Re: AVWW Beta 0.573 "Vital Signs Improving" Released!
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2012, 10:34:29 pm »
Let's say I have just cleared out some stash room and found the warp stone and am ready to get out. Do my options include:

- Warping to the entrance door to the building (same effect you get right now when you click the first room in the building on the map)?

If the entrance door of the building has a warp room, then sure.  It almost never will, though, so in general: no.  However, for things like this there's a secondary mechanic, called building exits.  Most stash rooms have them -- they just take you directly outside.  No choice, not part of the warp network, just "get me out of the building."

- Warping to the entrance chunk so I can take two steps and get back to the world map?

Most stashes are going to just have a building exit, so in those cases you'd have no options whatsoever other than: 1. Continue to explore the building; 2. use the building exit to go straight outside.

However, if you're talking about some sort of large place like a cave, or particularly large buildings, or overlords or whatever, they probably have a warp stone in each chunk that is a major junction, and before most of the boss rooms (talking there about the evil lairs).  From any of those places, you can get to any other warp stone you've visited in the same region.

Previously you could warp to any chunk in the region, if you'd been there before.  Now you can only go to ones that ALSO have a warp stone there.

Previously you could warp anytime, assuming you had a warp potion (and a few other conditions were met, like not being in a boss room).  Now you don't need to stock warp potions, but you can only warp if you're standing literally next to the warp statue.

Previously when you warped to most chunks, it would put you in a random location in that chunk.  In the case of the exit-to-world-map chunks, it would put you right by the exit.  Now it always takes you to exactly where the warp stone in that chunk is, every time.

Exit-to-world-map chunks still have warp stones in them without exception, so if you are way out in the wild somewhere, your process to get back is:

1. If in a building without a warp stone in it, then go for the nearest room with a building exit (stash rooms, mainly), or just work your way manually back out (if it's that small).
2. Now if in an exterior, underground, or particularly large building, then go for the nearest chunk with a warp stone.  It's probably 2-3 chunks away at most, most of the time.
3. Once in that chunk, locate the warp stone itself, then stand next to it.
4. Now click the node next to the world map.
5. Now make your way from the warp stone in that chunk to the actual exit, and you're back out.


So, yes, it would take quite a bit longer in the best case to make a quick run back to town.  More or less the goal, really.  But since you no longer need warp potions, there's also very little reason TO run back to town, most of the time.  There are really only two reasons:

1. For healing, if you're worried you're going to die.
2. To do some crafting.

#1 off that list can also be accomplished by carefully killing some monsters.  Especially with the recent vitality stone changes, your ability to stay out and about in the wild for extended periods has never been higher.
#2 off that list is something that can be done in batches, rather than running home every time you pick up one new material.

I also updated a lot more stuff on the release notes to answer questions on this one.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2012, 10:35:23 pm »
Split this into its own thread, because it's a bigger topic than deserves to get lost in that other one.
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 10:57:21 pm »
That seems to cover it pretty well. The exits are just what I need. I'm already prone to burn warp potions to get out of a building rather than try to walk out. Extreme laziness no doubt, but whenever I try to do it the right way I always seem to end up running in circles somehow instead of getting back to the exit. And I guess storm dash will make getting back to the world map rather quick regardless. My only remaining concern is theoretical since I still haven't found an acid gills enchant, but it seems like getting out of the last chunk of a wide ocean area might take a lot of slow-mo swimming.

Offline x4000

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Re: Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 10:59:10 pm »
Cool stuff, then.

For an ocean chunk, that is true.  When ocean diving, you might want to keep some elusion scrolls handy.  And later, I imagine we'll have the ability to swim faster be an enchant as well, or an upgrade on acid gills that you can find sometimes.  Also, I really want the player to be able to transmogrify into a carp. ;)
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2012, 03:39:39 am »
After some playing with the new mechanics, a couple things. Warp stones seem to like to spawn in stairwells, which looks rather odd since the graphic is clearly designed to sit on flat ground, and so they end up just sort of floating next to the stairs.

My main worry is maze rooms. I got into one that did have an exit warp in it, and even that took me a while to find. For a maze room that wasn't a cache (but with the number of enchant points you can get out of one, they're always worth exploring) you could waste a fair bit of time trekking back to the exit. It's late and my fuddled brain can't think of any good solutions to this right now, but I did want to throw it out there as a possible problem.

Offline zebramatt

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Re: Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2012, 05:04:08 am »
Personally I think if it makes maze rooms seem a little bit more like mazes then that's a generally good thing.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2012, 05:26:56 am »
Also, I really want the player to be able to transmogrify into a carp. ;)

Does that let you deal extra damage to skelebot dwarfs?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2012, 09:06:10 am »
Also, I really want the player to be able to transmogrify into a carp. ;)

Does that let you deal extra damage to skelebot dwarfs?
It will if I get my hands on it.
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2012, 11:51:04 am »
Personally I think if it makes maze rooms seem a little bit more like mazes then that's a generally good thing.

Well it's there for you to try. See how it feels. To me it feels like rather dull backtracking through blank scenery with nothing else to pick up and nothing to do except shoot any leftover enemies. Maze rooms seem to deliberately spawn in a fashion that already makes getting everything out of them require a lot of back and forth. If you stretched all the twisting branches out, you wouldn't end up with a line but with something like a couple of overlapping Xes. So you're already returning to crossroads to get to different spots to collect everything. I'm not sure if that necessarily adds anything in the first place. Maybe they should spawn more like a crumpled up line with a single path through the room and just some slight cul-de-sacs off the main route. Then you could be sure that there was an entrance, one main path, and an end point. The end point could have the exit stone, or a passage to another room, or whatever.

Maybe I'm just grumpy about maze rooms because I've been farming them for hours trying to get the water breathing enchant and constantly getting nothing but junk. Should something that completely locks out part of the world be tied to an RNG like this?

Offline Martyn van Buren

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Re: Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2012, 01:11:39 pm »
Yeah, maybe the training mission could include a light enchant and a water breathing one?  Or they could be given away in some other way; those both seem pretty frustrating not to be able to find.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2012, 01:12:44 pm »
It does include a light enchant :)
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Q&A About New Warp Mechanics.
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2012, 01:32:35 pm »
It does include a light enchant :)

Well I wish they would stop spawning every 5 feet then! I'm going to have every enchant in the game except water breathing at this rate.

Also I just found a diluter enchant that turns rewards higher than tier 4 orbs into tier 4 orbs. Now that I actually read how it works (apparently I am bad at reading patch notes, where it's clearly described) it seems a bit convoluted. How about just making the diluter a crafting ingredient and allow you to combine one diluter with one Tier X orb to make two Tier X-1 orbs? Or has crafting been excised from the game outside of specifically making spells?

 

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