Author Topic: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?  (Read 9343 times)

Offline Pepisolo

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Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« on: January 26, 2013, 01:21:14 pm »
One of the main issues I had during alpha with this game was the default joypad controls. I recently deleted the input bindings files (hopefully the correct
thing to do) in order to test if the defaults had changed much since then, but apart from the loss of the bizarre angled shooting buttons on start and
select, they don't seem to have changed at all. They are still very poor. Not sure if this is on the cards or not, but these defaults need changing before
full release. Yes, the player can always rebind, but forcing the player to rebind their controls will have a negative impact on user reviews. Having
everything working nicely out-of-the-box will have a positive effect. For the minimal (as far as I can see) programming resources required to make these
changes you will make a significant positive impression on the user. Bit of a no-brainer.

Just to confirm, if everything’s correct on my end, the current defaults controls are:

Analog Stick for Movement
A for Confirm/Interact
B for Jump
X for Ammo attack
Y for Special Ability
LB for Primary Fire
RB for Secondary Fire
Walk -- not even mapped
Open Menu/Cancel -- right analog stick click
Look Ahead -- not mapped

These as I understand it are the default controls. I shouldn't really have to go into too much detail as to why these controls are bad as it's fairly
obvious, but I will touch upon it as I present my optimum controls. Here they are:

Analog or D-Pad for movement -- Let both work, ideally. If this is not possible then Analog stick should be fine given that the 360 d-pad is universally
despised (although I prefer d-pad myself over analog for this game).

A for Confirm/Interact/Jump -- It is imperative that jump be on the A button for this game. Jump on A allows you to easily then press the B,X, and Y buttons in conjunction with it. With jump on B as it is now it is very difficult to press the X button in conjunction. Confirm and interact also works well on the A button aside from a couple of flaws that I will go into later. This also avoids the need to have a separate confirm button.

B for Secondary/Cancel
X for Primary -- as the primary attack it should be on the button it's easiest to press in conjunction with jump
Y for Special

(Notice that the three most used attacks are now on the most easily accessible buttons rather then the current default set-up of having the two most used
attacks on the bumper buttons).

LB is free
RB for ammo attack -- Since ammo attack is a significantly less used ability it works well here rather than on one of the main buttons. RB preferred over LB just to keep it nearer the other attack buttons
LT is walk -- Trigger buttons seem more suited for holding than bumpers so walk seems to fit more nicely here.
Start button for open menu -- right stick click in for this is strange.
RT is look ahead -- Haven't actually used this button much, seems OK here, though.

I believe this is the optimal default controls aside from two flaws.

1) Just read this Mantis report: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=10385

Just an aesthetic thing this really, although pretty vital in terms of polish.

2) Situations like in my attached screenshot:

Notice that with confirm and jump on the same button it is impossible to jump up here as attempting to do so will always result in you using the entrance. To jump up here I had to use the space bar. This small, but significant flaw is preventing this from being the perfect default controls in my eyes. Any ideas for solutions to this problem most welcome. One simple idea is to decrease the width of this cave's active enterable area. There seems to be at least a little room to do so.

That's about it actually. I'd like to hear other people's preferred control schemes too, to see if any further improvements can be made. Maybe we could together brainstorm the best default controls. Might just have wasted my time if my default controls are wrong for some reason (they certainly seem like it).

Offline x4000

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2013, 02:08:15 pm »
The default controls are mapped for a Logitech rumble pad ii at the moment. Xbox controllers seem to be wildly inconsistent in what constitutes the a button versus the b button, etc. During valley 1's development I used my 360 controller to do sensible mappings, which worked for some people and came out garbled for others.

At any rate, adjusting the defaults is something I'll look at, but I doubt very much if any defaults will make sense for all 360 controllers.
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Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2013, 05:43:48 pm »
Quote
At any rate, adjusting the defaults is something I'll look at

Thanks!

Quote
but I doubt very much if any defaults will make sense for all 360 controllers.

Not a problem. As long as the defaults work nicely out-of-the-box for some users you will be getting a little coverage which will make a small difference to those users' impression of the game. I know that if I get a PC game that works nicely with my joypad without having to rebind, I'm at least a little impressed.

I can get access to a few different types of 360 pad to test with actually, so if the defaults do get updated I'll do a bit of testing.

Offline Misery

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2013, 08:15:37 pm »
The default controls are mapped for a Logitech rumble pad ii at the moment. Xbox controllers seem to be wildly inconsistent in what constitutes the a button versus the b button, etc. During valley 1's development I used my 360 controller to do sensible mappings, which worked for some people and came out garbled for others.

At any rate, adjusting the defaults is something I'll look at, but I doubt very much if any defaults will make sense for all 360 controllers.


I can confirm this bit, since I've been forced to use the damn things really often for gaming.   For a controller that's supposed to be a plug-n-play device, it sure is bloody strange.   The button mappings for it seem randomly decided by the device itself at times, and you never quite know when it's going to do something weird with that when you plug it in.  Bloody horrid device, really.

Setting them up for a Logitech sort makes more sense.  I aint fond of those either but at least they dont just randomly decide on new numbers for everything every now and then.   Not to mention that PC-only gamers will likely have those instead of a 360 controller.

Offline Mick

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 02:59:37 pm »

I can confirm this bit, since I've been forced to use the damn things really often for gaming.   For a controller that's supposed to be a plug-n-play device, it sure is bloody strange.   The button mappings for it seem randomly decided by the device itself at times, and you never quite know when it's going to do something weird with that when you plug it in.  Bloody horrid device, really.

I've never had anything even close to this happen with mine.

Offline Greywolf22

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 04:13:32 pm »
Just going to throw this out as something to consider. 

First of all, it would be interesting to see if there was a way to consistently map the 360 controller without it being different for other users (IE if we have different types of xbox 360 controllers the mappings seem to stay consistent across the board). I have a few different types so I'm willing to test this as well if needed.

Secondly, if it is possible to find some consistency in the mapping of a 360 controller, would it be possible in addition to assigning key bindings to have some sort of drop down profile for controller type? IE, the default, and then 360 or something similiar?

I'm not opposed to manually key binding the way I prefer to play it...and trust me I wish all games would allow this, but if we could find a consistent approach that works for most 360 controllers, would a selectable dropdown preset be an option?

Just a thought...I'm perfectly happy as is :)

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2013, 10:54:59 am »
Quote
First of all, it would be interesting to see if there was a way to consistently map the 360 controller without it being different for other users (IE if we have different types of xbox 360 controllers the mappings seem to stay consistent across the board). I have a few different types so I'm willing to test this as well if needed.

I just wish I knew more about how these default controls are set up -- I'm still none the wiser as to what the actual defaults are supposed to even be. Can different defaults be set up for 360 or PS2 pads, for example. Can you have a different setup for the Logitech, too? Or is there just one universal default setup that needs to somehow work for all controllers...

All I know is that the current defaults for both my PS2 pad and 360 pad are very poor.  It's not a huge deal thanks to being able to rebind, I'm just thinking of the effect on user reviews. Great defaults will have a small positive effect, poor defaults will have a small negative effect. People with more obscure joypads are going to expect to have to rebind controls, people with 360 pads not so much.

If 360 pads can or do have their own default setup then it will be easy for me to test a few different types of controller to check consistency. All I ask is that the developers  tell us what the default controls are supposed to be, so I know whether my own setup is correct or screwy. This stuff is probably not a priority at the moment, but I'm hopeful that the devs will look into it sometime before release.

Quote
Secondly, if it is possible to find some consistency in the mapping of a 360 controller, would it be possible in addition to assigning key bindings to have some sort of drop down profile for controller type? IE, the default, and then 360 or something similiar?

That would be cool. I have no clue whether or not it's feasible though.  Edit: actually, yeah this does sound feasible. We'd just need to do a sweep on the board and come up with as many different profiles for our various controllers as possible.

There is a load selected bindings feature actually -- at least there was in the early alphas, it seems blank at the moment. We should be able to use this to create many different default joypad configs.
 






« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 11:17:39 am by Pepisolo »

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2013, 11:58:56 am »
Quote
I have a few different types so I'm willing to test this as well if needed.

Right, copying the SavedInputBindingSets folder from the old alpha (which seems to be missing from the Beta) over to the newer version allows you to set up and choose your own default bindings from the Load Selected Bindings option on the Edit Controls screen.

The current available default bindings are: Keyboard + Mouse, Laptop Keyboard, Left-Handed Keyboard + Mouse, Logitech Rumblepad 2 Default,  and Xbox 360 Controller Default.

I've added a new one, Pepi's Xbox 360 Controller Default which is the control scheme outlined above. It'd be great if somebody could test my control setup using their controller to see if the defaults are consistent.

I've uploaded the SavedInputBindingSets folder, you just need extract it and place it in your C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\A Valley Without Wind 2\RuntimeData location. Then the various input binding selections will be available from the dropdown on the controller edit page.

Edit: if there is something wrong with actually doing this, then I'll wait for the devs to sort out their binding system -- just trying to fast track this.

Double Edit: Right, seems as though I was misunderstanding the input system. Here is the SavedInputBindingsSets folder, but it only has my 360 pad setup currently. Should work at least.




« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 05:39:19 pm by Pepisolo »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2013, 12:13:18 pm »
Edit: if there is something wrong with actually doing this, then I'll wait for the devs to sort out their binding system -- just trying to fast track this.
Please go ahead :)  Some of the input setups that shipped with AVWW1 were player supplied (a left-handed setup, an XBOX setup iirc, etc).  It helps if someone coming from the player perspective makes sure they work right, as even when we have time to test them we tend to approach the game a very different way and with very different tolerances and expectations than normal players.

Thanks :)
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Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2013, 01:43:14 pm »
Cool. I'm sure if we all pitch in, we can come up with some great default bindings. I've updated the SavedInputBindingSets with my PS2 Dual Shock 2 bindings. If anybody could test this for consistency, that'd be great. Oh, I forgot to say, one other button function that is also mapped is Show all world map region labels, this is on Select (360 and PS2 Dualshock 2.)

If anybody wants to create some bindings for their own particular controller it's quite easy to do. Just remap your controls and make a copy of the inputbindings dat file, renaming it to whatever you like, then copy this over to your SavedInputBindingSets folder. We could actually give this game one of the greatest selections of default bindings ever -- within reason!

Someone testing Dualshock 3's would be nice. Haven't got a PS3, maybe they'd work with the Dualshock 2 mappings, in which case we could combine them into one profile.

Edit: upload not quite right, gotta recheck it. New one uploaded. Just the 360 and Dualshock 2 controls.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 05:56:05 pm by Pepisolo »

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2013, 06:04:41 pm »
One person I know has confirmed that the Xbox 360 pad maps correctly on their controller. Not sure of the exact model of their joypad, though.

Offline Greywolf22

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2013, 06:29:06 pm »
I'll give it a try as well when I get a chance.  I've only got Microsoft branded controller, but I have various versions of them (with the retractable D-Pad, original 360 controller, etc.)

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2013, 01:22:11 pm »
I've updated the zip to include a WASD keyboard setup. Just a nicety this, but it may help pacify those that regard the current controls and a lack of mouse control as too unorthodox.

Keyboard is not my usual playing method, though, so if anybody wants to improve these defaults, go ahead.

WASD for Movement
E for Confirm/Interact
Space bar for Jump
J for Primary Fire
K for Secondary Fire
L for Special Ability
; for Ammo attack
Shift for Walk
Esc for Open Menu/Cancel
LftCtrl for Look Ahead
V for view strategic panel (same as default)
H for Show map region labels (same as default)

My actual preferred setup for the ability buttons is LeftArrow/DownArrow/RightArrow and Numpad0 as it feels a little less cramped, but I thought that might be too unorthodox.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2013, 10:49:17 am »
There's one thing that's been bothering me about these Xbox 360 controls. 99% of the time they work great, however there is always the occasional situation like in the attached screenshot that gets you stuck, unable to jump without entering a doorway. It doesn't seem to me that it would be worthwhile tracking down every place where this occurs -- especially with the tight deadline approaching -- so what are the options?

1) Leave things as is and hope that these rare problems don't annoy the user too much (assuming defaults like these are even planned)

2) Add a separate interact button to the LB. Sounds good, but this would then mess with the flow of the menu buttons. For example, with this system you would then need to press LB while on the map screen to interact with the region and then A to choose an option. It should really be a single button for both actions on the map screen. One solution to this would be to roll the interact with map region button into the confirm menu option button instead of the interact button or alternatively having a separately bindable interact with map region button would solve this.

3) Add some kind of modifier to the controls so that you can override the Interact/Enter action. For example, if Interact + Jump are mapped to the same button then pressing UP and jump would negate any interactions and allow you to freely jump when standing in one of these problematic situations.

It's a bit annoying this as these controls are almost perfect -- but they're not perfect. Any thoughts, ideas?






Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Perfect Xbox 360 Default Joypad Controls?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2013, 08:25:51 am »
Borrowed my friend's wireless 360 PC joypad, newer slim black model. The controls map perfectly, as expected.

 

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