Author Topic: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy  (Read 8350 times)

Offline Echo35

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2011, 02:34:28 AM »
A gun that describes its state on a sliding scale from shiny and new down to worn and cracked and gives you fair warning that it could break at any shot is more fair, I suppose.

System Shock did. Generally you could tell exactly how many shots you had left on it, which was a huge problem since there were hardly any guns ever. It was sort of like having limited ammo in a horror game, only more frightening because THAT was limited too :P

Offline Flatfingers

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2011, 04:51:47 AM »
For those who haven't played it (and why not?), it should be noted that System Shock 2 (which is the version of the game we're really talking about here; weapons didn't degrade in the original System Shock) also let you put skill points into both a repair skill and a maintenance skill, as well as offering a psi power that prevented weapons from degrading when fired.

This carefully balanced "interlocking systems" approach to gameplay design is part of what made System Shock 2 such an excellent game. Not as outstanding as the original System Shock, IMO, but still one of the best games ever.

Offline x4000

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2011, 03:41:55 PM »
Degrading weapons are a personal pet peeve of mine, and definitely won't be in the game. To me, it just always feels like busywork. It's my least favorite thing about minecraft and stalker. I think the only reason for such a system is to give the player a reason to get more weapons if there are only a limited number of weapons.

In avww, that will already be handled by weapons and items having levels, and thus becoming obsolete. Usig a level 1 pistol? You can use that thing forever, no problem. However, if you're facing level 99 enemies, it's going to be like flicking rubber bands at a rhino. You can do it, the weapon isn't broken, but it's obsolete by context.
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Offline mlaskus

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2011, 04:11:45 PM »
I dislike degrading weapons too, though I think I wouldn't mind it, if it happened very slowly. In most games that use it it happens extremely fast.
I think Far Cry 2 and Minecraft are the most guilty of that, forcing you to change your weapons or tools after a few minutes of use.

I'm also not a big fan of levelling but you have more than earned my trust so far, and I'm actually eager to see what are you going to do with it.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2011, 05:02:26 PM »
I actually get OCD about degrading items in games. I constantly want to 'repair' my gear in Minecraft, and the fact that I can't always irks me.

Offline Nalgas

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2011, 01:12:28 AM »
I'm reminded of the smoke monsters from the HL2 horror mod Korsakovia. When you got right down to it, they were just the fast zombies from HL2 but with their model replaced by a cloud of black smoke that streamed around after you and made staticky noises when they were close. And somehow, they were terrifying.

Oh crap.  I have to go re-download that so I can finish it.  I was about half done when the only hard drive I owned that wasn't backed up at the time died on me.  I ended up noclipping my way through a bunch of the jumping puzzles, because they're just terrible and not fun, but aside from that, the atmosphere and presentation of it is amazing.  Even just going through the first "level", there's this constant sense that something is very not right in a very strange way that I was very not used to.  Not all that great from a gameplay point of view, but still a unique and worthwhile experience for everything else in it.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2011, 01:25:42 AM »
Oh yeah, it was a great, creepy story wrapped around horrid gameplay. They should have stuck with their nearly gameplay free model and made another mod like 'Dear Esther'. I also noclipped through most of the levels. The last one is possibly the worst example of 3-D platforming I've ever seen. It looks fantastic, but actually navigating it without cheats would put the average person into a real asylum.

Offline Nalgas

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2011, 01:27:54 AM »
Degrading weapons are a personal pet peeve of mine, and definitely won't be in the game. To me, it just always feels like busywork. It's my least favorite thing about minecraft and stalker.

Praise Jebus.  Every time someone mentions weapons that break, it reminds me of when my roommate convinced me to try Dark Cloud, because he really liked it and thought I would, too, based on other stuff we both enjoyed.  An hour or two in, I'm well into the first dungeon, every single weapon I have breaks, and there's nothing I can do about it.  I was about ready to throw the entire PS2 out our third story window.  I have questioned his taste (and sanity) ever since.

It definitely also bugs me in Minecraft, but it's far from my least favorite thing in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: that would have to be everything else about the entire game (slight exaggeration, but not much; realistic FPSes and I have a long-standing hate-hate relationship).  I don't think I managed to put up with playing it long enough to even have a single weapon break on me, so I didn't know that was a feature of the game.  Heh.

Offline Nalgas

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2011, 01:30:09 AM »
I also noclipped through most of the levels. The last one is possibly the worst example of 3-D platforming I've ever seen.

You mean it actually gets worse than the floating maelstrom of boxes and crap in the second level?  That's kind of impressive, in a way, considering how frustrating I found that level, and I'm one of those weirdos who thought Xen in the original HL was fun.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2011, 03:41:24 AM »
You mean it actually gets worse than the floating maelstrom of boxes and crap in the second level?  That's kind of impressive, in a way, considering how frustrating I found that level, and I'm one of those weirdos who thought Xen in the original HL was fun.

Oh yes. That floating box room is kind and forgiving, you see, because it has a floor.

Offline Reality

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2011, 06:54:10 AM »
I -much- prefer the backrounds and environments now, before they were just not to my taste. I'm not sure about the player character or enemies though, they don't seem to quite have that same lovely painted quality, and they're fairly stiff at the moment.

I absolutely love the concept, and glad to see the graphics improving :)

Offline ShinseiTom

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2011, 07:29:56 AM »
Degrading weapons are a personal pet peeve of mine, and definitely won't be in the game. To me, it just always feels like busywork. It's my least favorite thing about minecraft and stalker. I think the only reason for such a system is to give the player a reason to get more weapons if there are only a limited number of weapons.

In avww, that will already be handled by weapons and items having levels, and thus becoming obsolete. Usig a level 1 pistol? You can use that thing forever, no problem. However, if you're facing level 99 enemies, it's going to be like flicking rubber bands at a rhino. You can do it, the weapon isn't broken, but it's obsolete by context.
Well, that's cool I guess.  I rarely have any problems with the guns in STALKER, as broken weapons are easily fixed in Clear Sky & Pripyat.  You go back to the main bases all the time for quests and the like, so stopping by to fix (AND UPGRADE, which means that gun you like but is partly obsolete might be your next superkiller) your weapons wasn't much busywork.  Plus, it always felt cool in Pripyat to shoot a gun in a guy's hand, pick it up when he's dead, and see that it was horribly broke and useless.  After all, I just shot the damn thing, of course it'll be broken.  And if it's a better gun, I'll pack it away and wait to fix it.  If not, throw it away.
I agree for Minecraft though.  Without a way of fixing tools, them breaking so fast just becomes a hassle.  Maybe it's something he'll add in?

However, it sounds more like you're going the way of Borderlands, which is also a game I love.  Guns that have a set level and can't get better.  I also hope you'll be putting in some kind of parts and rarity system?  That was the main thing I felt was lacking from Borderlands: the ability to make a weapon out of parts.  They already had them all in-game, letting us mess around with them would of been really cool.

Edit:  Haha, I finally got to sit down and read the whole bigdownload article through, and saw you mentioned crafting and even Borderlands by name.  D'oh  :P
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 07:39:45 AM by ShinseiTom »

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2011, 03:42:50 PM »
I'm not really a fan of "leveled" items either, to be honest. It just feels wierd that the gun I'm using now to shoot people with will suddenly become useless because the enemy I'm facing is arbitrarily a "higher level" than the gun.

This is most likely due to my pet love for realism. A gun is going to make a mess out of a person regardless of his "level". So this things with someone gaining more "hitpoints" for leveling up and thus defeats enemies not because of better combat skills, but because he's able to take more damage is just mindboggling to me.

For computer games though, I can understand the necessity to do this due to limitations, but it's still a pet hatred for me. Final Fantasy game series really takes this to its extremes with a starting character having some 100 HP while in the endgame your are up in the millions. It's like the knight will defeat the 10 villagers with picks simply because he can withstand their picks until he's mashed them into the ground instead of actually you know...outskilling their fighting. It just ... irks me :D
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Offline Reality

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2011, 04:56:35 PM »
leveling doesn't have to be unrealistic in this setting I think. For instance, if all the low level enemies are animals on the surface, then it makes sense that your level 1 gun makes a mess of them. As you venture into more dangerous areas, the higher level enemies are things like mutants with super-tough exoskeletons, zombies (only weak to headshots), robots, armored enemies, etc. So of course your little level 1 pea shooter doesn't phase these higher level enemies, but a level 10 ak-47 might.

I think it makes sense as long as the level of items and creatures are tied into their visible "dangerousness"

Offline Itchykobu

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Re: New AVWW Screenshots and Video Show Off Spells and First Enemy
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2011, 07:26:48 PM »
I'm a huge monster hunter fan, and degrading weapons works well there. If you're hitting hard parts of the monster, or you are blocking attacks using your sword instead of your shield, then the sharpness degrades and you have to use a whetstone to re-sharpen. The bowgun weapons don't degrade over time though.

Something like your gun degrading, as you see in farcry 2 or other games, just doesn't make sense. Why does firing a weapon make it rusty and useless within the hour, or even a day? With a firearm, ammunition is already your constraint.

I think weapon degradation can work in games, but it needs to make sense. Degrading just for the sake of degrading is tedious and boring.