Arcen Games

Games => A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 => Topic started by: x4000 on November 26, 2012, 08:29:39 PM

Title: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on November 26, 2012, 08:29:39 PM
We're getting further and further along with Valley 2, but there's lots of final things that we're straightening out.  The good news is that multiplayer seems to be in a much better state than we'd thought.  The slightly bad news is that there's hundreds of other smaller things that we're still cleaning up and getting ready for prime-time.  I'm very wary about showing this publicly before it's baked to a certain point, given how the reactions were last time we did that.

So, with that in mind, we're going to do a limited-run private alpha for Valley 2.  We actually did this with AVWW1 as well, but I'm not sure how public that knowledge was.  Essentially, if you're interested in helping us iron out the kinks in a still-somewhat-buggy-and-unbalanced-with-some-missing-art version of Valley 2 starting perhaps on Friday of this week or into next week, then send a PM to tigersfan (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1528) (Josh) here on the forums.  Or if you'd rather wait for a smoother and nicer version that will be our initial beta offering, you'll probably only have to wait until late next week instead.

In terms of the alpha, a few notes:

1. We're really only going to be taking a handful of people at a time, for two reasons.  Firstly, because there's only so much feedback we can parse at once.  And secondly, because we only get one chance to make our first impression on each alpha tester.  If everyone starts at the same time, then we fix some things, we can't get first impressions on how the fixed stuff works.  Instead we do it in small groups so that we collect first impressions at several stages of the process.

2. A huge amount of familiarity with AVWW1 is not a must by any stretch of the imagination.  These are extremely different games.  However, you will need a license key for the first game, as this is how you also activate the sequel.

3. There's a very good chance that not remotely everyone who notes interest in the alpha will get to be a part of it.  It's nothing personal, but here again we don't want to burn through all our testers so fast in case we need more waves of them; mixed with the fact that we can only take so much feedback at once.  If we get to the point where we feel this is beta-ready before we get through all of the potential testers (which is actually what happens in an ideal world, or else we're skirting the edge of running out of alpha testers, which is bad), then we'll go ahead to public beta and you can start playing with it along with everyone else who is interested.  Past a certain point we're ready to open the floodgates. ;)

4. Going along with #3, I also want to note that there is actually a bit of personal bias in how we are selecting people for the alpha.  But not in the way you might think.  If you've been a really useful tester for us in the past, this is not a guarantee you'll get in an early batch or even at all; and if you've never tested for us before, that's not to say you won't get chosen.  Rather, we try to put a couple of both kinds of person in each batch, for what I imagine are hopefully obvious reasons.  Having both some veteran testers and some neophytes in each batch of alpha testers helps us get both kinds of feedback as we proceed -- those all-important first impressions can only be collected once, and if we put all our veteran testers into the very first version that's really a waste of their expertise.  If any veteran testers get left to the beta rather than being a part of the alpha, that doesn't mean we don't like you or don't want to hear from you; that's just how the process happened to shake out prior to when we were ready for beta.  We'll be just as interested in hearing from you during beta as we would have been during alpha.


And lastly a couple of notes about testing Valley 2 in general:

5. Valley 2 is very much more of a mature game than AVWW1 ever was; it's more like AI War 2.0 was compared to AI War 1.0.  Therefore, I think that the expectation that some people might have that we're going to be doing major design shifts is something that needs to be tempered.  This is a much tighter, more cohesive design than in AVWW1, and we're not going to be looking to add more content prior to this getting out of beta (aside from what is already on our to-do list anyway), and nor are we going to be looking to reinvent the game mechanics wildly and repeatedly.

6. So what's the point of testing?  We're looking for things that are unclear, unbalanced, un-fun, or similar.  In other words, we're not looking to reinvent the game we've labored to create, we're looking to refine it.  With AVWW1 we were constantly reinventing and refining side-by-side, and ultimately that was unhealthy for the project (or a sign of an underlying disease, depending on how you look at it).  That's a big part of why Valley 2 was born in the first place, and why it had so much up-front design work done to it.  We did the exploratory bit with AVWW1, and Valley 2 is a product of what we learned before.

Anywho!  I think that's all the potential caveats; there will always be a potential for misunderstandings and hurt feelings, but hopefully by knowing our intentions as stated above the chance for them will be minimized.  Thanks all for your enthusiasm, and we look forward to sharing this with you soon!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Oralordos on November 26, 2012, 08:38:05 PM
Sounds lovely, I don't think the alpha of AVWW1 was that well known actually.

I would sign up but I'm not very good at giving feedback on things. I doubt I would play in depth enough for serious bug hunting and almost never say anything about how something is fun or not. So I'll wait until the beta arrives.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Gemzo on November 26, 2012, 08:45:08 PM
I've been lurking, but I'm still here. I wasn't around for the AVWW1 alpha but I definitely am looking forward to participating in this one.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on November 26, 2012, 08:45:40 PM
By all means feel free to wait for the beta -- there's no pressure to be a part of the alpha! :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Walter Sullivan on November 26, 2012, 09:52:18 PM
Oh man, if my college exams(and the finals, oh god the finals) weren't so close I would love to try to participate on this alpha. Well, at least on the beta I'm gonna play at the same time as my friends: I even convinced my cousin to buy AVWW so he can play too.

When the alpha happens, there's any chances we get to see some screenshots/videos/whatever of the testers playing? I know the beta is going to be only one week after the alpha, but I'm curious as hell to see how the game is looking now  :).
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on November 26, 2012, 10:07:43 PM
I'm interested, but I think there are people who could describe their feedback better than me. I'll send him a PM though, since I don't have a ton to do and you said you could use plenty different people.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on November 26, 2012, 10:18:59 PM
I'm interested, but I think there are people who could describe their feedback better than me. I'll send him a PM though, since I don't have a ton to do and you said you could use plenty different people.

Pretty much this.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on November 26, 2012, 10:32:21 PM
I would love to get involved, but I am totally loaded down with work as it is right now. I'm in a game design class, I critique games privately (and fairly harshly), I look very closely for things that are unclear, things that are too clear... If I could, I totally would.
Fact of the matter is, I shouldn't, so I won't. Best of luck, Chris. If the game's in an unclear confusing state at launch I'll just blame myself. ;)
(not really)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LayZboy on November 26, 2012, 10:48:17 PM
If there is Multiplayer stuff I'm pretty sure Mouldy & I will take care of that.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on November 26, 2012, 10:57:30 PM
What's this? Low chance of job over Christmas due to how things are for Christmas job places done? PC being redone after it breaks 10 times a day due to brother building an unstable PC, which might be fixed by weekend?

Multiplayer testing or not, i'd love to help out. :D

Edit: Says nothing for Sent PMs, so i'm going to assume that it sent and this was also a secondary test to Beta Test the PM system, in which case it seems broken. XD
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: mrhanman on November 27, 2012, 02:07:46 AM
I really liked testing AVWW1.  I'd love to test its sequel as well.  8)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Nanashi on November 27, 2012, 03:18:18 AM
Can't commit since I don't have the time to do a good job of it, but will play the beta.

And - your games are your work and you really shouldn't be worrying about what features people want to see or not. I don't think that means they shouldn't express what they want though - since no reasonable person would expect any suggestion to be mandatory. Most of the time, such statements are just a little bit of phatic egocentrism that keeps us functioning and mentally stable by reaffirming our personal significance and likes and dislikes, rather than an imperative "Do this or your game sucks".
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Knightlord64 on November 27, 2012, 04:22:06 AM
I would sign up for alpha testing but I don't really think I'm cut out for finding bugs and giving feedback haha. I'll just wait for beta patiently.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on November 28, 2012, 07:32:16 AM
We definitely want many different types of folks. Willingness is really the most important thing we need in a tester right now. Just being able to play around and say "yuck! I really don't like this part here!" is a huge help, and different people will catch different issues.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: keith.lamothe on November 28, 2012, 10:05:55 AM
Yea, folks with QA experience (professional or otherwise, many people have quite a bit from participating in public betas) are of course very valuable for giving us bug reports we can act on.  But it's also helpful to have people who are specifically not thinking in terms of surgical-bug-hunt or whatever.  A crowd of crack QA folks could find every technical problem with the game and still (possibly) not give the real gameplay feedback we need :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: chemical_art on November 28, 2012, 07:51:18 PM
Signed.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on November 28, 2012, 10:24:47 PM
Just to keep everyone updated. I'm collecting the messages of those who have expressed interest, but as of yet, I've not done anything with them. :) So, don't take a lack of response to mean anything. I mention this because I've gotten a few "I'm not sure if you got my first message" messages. :)

Yep, I got 'em.

Also, I've gotten enough messages that I'm probably not going to be able to respond to each one, unless and until I send you the info for how to access the Alpha. Just FYI . :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Echo35 on November 28, 2012, 10:33:58 PM
My semester is ending shortly and I won't even really be available for playing this for another week or two anyhow, so I shall eagerly await the beta!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: zespri on November 30, 2012, 01:07:31 AM
Just to keep everyone updated. I'm collecting the messages of those who have expressed interest, but as of yet, I've not done anything with them. :) So, don't take a lack of response to mean anything. I mention this because I've gotten a few "I'm not sure if you got my first message" messages. :)

Yep, I got 'em.

Also, I've gotten enough messages that I'm probably not going to be able to respond to each one, unless and until I send you the info for how to access the Alpha. Just FYI . :)
Guys, I'm confused. According to *this* http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,11943.0.html the beta is going to start around now. Are you going to run alpha and beta in parallel, with alpha being more bleeding edge build? I think I'm missing something...
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Panopticon on November 30, 2012, 01:12:19 AM
Arcen is going to run a limited, short final alpha test phase for about a week or so. Once that's over the beta will start.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Lancefighter on November 30, 2012, 01:32:31 AM
Jokes on you - The private alpha has been running for two weeks already. This is merely a ploy to get people to think that the alpha was open and/or later.

Its an amazing game, by the way. Youre going to love it. The way the new spell upgrade system works, in combination with the armor materials, really adds to the replayability and first-run play at the same time. Also, the procedurally generated.. well, everything, feels really well done.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: chemical_art on November 30, 2012, 02:49:00 AM
Jokes on you - The private alpha has been running for two weeks already. This is merely a ploy to get people to think that the alpha was open and/or later.

 ::)

Got to admit, its the worst joke Arcen's ever done.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: ZCaliber on November 30, 2012, 05:29:15 AM
Boy I showed up late to the party.

Anyway, I'll throw my name into the hat. Having been a part of quashing a couple bugs in AVWW1, I wouldn't mind doing it in AVWW2 as well.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on November 30, 2012, 05:54:36 AM
No external testing of any kind has started yet. We're a bit behind schedule, which is why the beta hasn't started yet. The Alpha is going to start probably early next week. (I really don't see it starting today). After a short alpha period, we'll have a public beta. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on November 30, 2012, 07:21:15 AM
Jokes on you - The private alpha has been running for two weeks already. This is merely a ploy to get people to think that the alpha was open and/or later.

Its an amazing game, by the way. Youre going to love it. The way the new spell upgrade system works, in combination with the armor materials, really adds to the replayability and first-run play at the same time. Also, the procedurally generated.. well, everything, feels really well done.

If anyone missed it, Lancefighter is the one who was pulling your leg here. As josh has said, no external testing of any kind has started yet. We wouldn't pull a "joke" like that!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Lancefighter on November 30, 2012, 11:59:00 AM
you guys >_>

(i kinda thought it was incredulous enough that nobody would believe it anyway, tbh)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: keith.lamothe on November 30, 2012, 12:00:25 PM
@Lancefighter: as the absurd becomes normal, satire becomes difficult.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: zebramatt on November 30, 2012, 12:54:16 PM
Can I give my first impressions?

I'll be honest, fellas, it's sounding great  but... it could use a few more slices (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/719364/).
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on November 30, 2012, 01:18:27 PM
Can I give my first impressions?

I'll be honest, fellas, it's sounding great  but... it could use a few more slices (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/719364/).

It can always use more slices. But, perhaps what it really needs is more cowbell? I should talk to Pablo about that. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on November 30, 2012, 04:53:50 PM
Can I give my first impressions?

I'll be honest, fellas, it's sounding great  but... it could use a few more slices (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/719364/).

It can always use more slices. But, perhaps what it really needs is more cowbell? I should talk to Pablo about that. :)
...He might actually do it?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LayZboy on November 30, 2012, 07:37:33 PM
No memes in the game.

Please.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on November 30, 2012, 07:43:43 PM
I don't believe there are any memes in the game at this point.  Slender has been renamed to Elder, and is pretty different from what Slender-the-meme is, so that's that one gone.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on November 30, 2012, 09:25:47 PM
Is the Owl still completely unimpressed by the clockwork avians and things in general?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on November 30, 2012, 09:29:06 PM
Is the Owl still completely unimpressed by the clockwork avians and things in general?

Thus far we have 36 out of 109 heavy-cat-created enemies to the animated-frames stage (there are a further 10 enemies that are particle-based that I'm handling directly, and which I also hope to have ready for the start of beta).  The owl isn't one of them, so thus far all that remains of him is the concept art you've already seen.  I've expressed my desire to the artists to make sure he retains that personality when they animate him, though. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on November 30, 2012, 10:26:19 PM
I don't believe there are any memes in the game at this point.  Slender has been renamed to Elder, and is pretty different from what Slender-the-meme is, so that's that one gone.
I was like halfway through writing a completely unorganized mess of thoughts on the name "Slender" before deleting the whole thing. It was just off-putting to me, but I didn't know how to say it, so consider me a bit grateful for that change. What will still bug me is why exactly it was off-putting. I try not to express what I feel without knowing why I feel it.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on November 30, 2012, 10:51:55 PM
Well, our brains are associative machines. When you use a meme, that dredges up different emotions for different people (none for some). For me the name evoked a performance by a guy in the Merry Wives of Windsor. As something of a tribute to that performance, I originally used the name. I was vaguely aware of something on the Internet with a freaky-looking dude, and I thought that was interesting too.

But anyway, generally going meme-heavy is a bad thing because it really dates games as well as dredging up lots of negative feelings in some folks in exchange for middling to occasionally positive feelings in a minority of others. It used to be that seeing a reference to one work inside another was rare and exciting; but now society is rather obsessed with that it seems, so it's become mundane and the positive impact is blunted.

Anywho -- as to why you can't articulate your distaste, I imagine if you did some free association with it you would find out. It sounds to me like somebody you disdain liked it and/or overused it, and you've transferred those feelings to the meme itself. Or it might be that it's not this particular meme, but memes in general for similar reasons. Or whatever other psychobabble. ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on November 30, 2012, 11:09:03 PM
Ohh, cool. See, I like that as something to reference. It's not as if I completely know what that is, but I do want to give it a look because I haven't heard about it left and right every day. It's what you said about meme-heavy games. To me, it only dredges up negative feelings if I actually feel a sense of a joke's overuse. I don't follow memes-- I avoid them. Apparently Sequence was meme-heavy, but I loved that games dialog because as a self-contained experience, it never lets the joke run dry. Seems to stop with each joke just at about the right time. It doesn't hurt that as you go, you're beating down all the meme stereotype characters as bosses. ;)
Though I also didn't recognize the jokes, so whatever. Maybe he just made careful good choices of memes.

I think it might partly have been one of two things, maybe both:

1. The game Slender. It's not only got this viral popularity in youtube LPs, which I often don't like whenever it's about the 'virally popular' thing... it also doesn't seem like much of a game. The horror bit comes into play when Slender teleports in front of you and makes a scary face and your screen goes staticy. Then you're dead. Restart. That's how the game kills you, and you can't actually prevent it. But, all the gameplay is, is running around a very samey looking forest trying to find eight pieces of paper. No obstacles to speak of, or anything. You get killed by Slender because I guess he just sort of felt like it. Some of the sound design is absolutely fantastic as well.

2. After actually reading up on Slenderman as well, I actually... well, I found what I read about his past incarnation scarier and more twisted than the idea of "He teleports you away and you're never seen again." Something seems not only a bit cheesy about that, but it sort of lacks the impact of something like monsters in Amnesia. Those guys, man... you hear drumming music, your heart pounds, your vision fades, you can do nothing but sprint away, throwing doors in its way, and praying that you don't end up splattered on the wall. When a guy can just appear and make you vanish forever, I don't care what tension there is, you don't even get the chance to run. That seems more cheap to me, than it is scary. There's something about the futile struggle to escape against an unstoppable force that's knocking over everything you throw at it. Say, can you call the overlord "Amnesia Monster"? XD

Well... why not?
A distant 3. It might also involve a time once upon a time where an ex (not at the time) was playing lots of horror games. Positively loved Slenderman, as well. Had the marker of him all over her room, all that jazz. I'd almost say she had a crush on the guy. Reason it's distant is because of the fact that I actually was reminded of her in great detail yesterday, so... I know what revisiting that story does to me. The mention of Slender didn't do that.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on November 30, 2012, 11:18:42 PM
But anyway, generally going meme-heavy is a bad thing because it really dates games as well as dredging up lots of negative feelings in some folks in exchange for middling to occasionally positive feelings in a minority of others. It used to be that seeing a reference to one work inside another was rare and exciting; but now society is rather obsessed with that it seems, so it's become mundane and the positive impact is blunted.

Psst: Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A isn't included in that and is always relevant right!?

Though on the topic of slender, my feelings are (and were when I first heard about it) pretty much the same as LT (though without the ex issue), a vague distaste without really a specific reason, though I could have lived either way with him being in.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Oralordos on November 30, 2012, 11:28:35 PM
Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A
You know, I've always wondered where that came from. My first exposure to it was the Golden Sun games. Only there it's up, down, up, down, left, right, left, right, up, right, down, left, up, select.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on November 30, 2012, 11:33:09 PM
Its old school Contra. Though I never actually entered that one myself. As a sega boy other people entered that one, my "own" codes (which yes I do have memorized) were: ABACABB and the two variants of Up C, Down C, Left C, Right C or just Up, Down, Left, Right, Start.

Sad that I can remember that, but I probably couldn't name every fifty state for instance.

Edit: Those are from two different games, and I'll give a cookie to anybody that can name them without cheating :P
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on November 30, 2012, 11:57:46 PM
Its in lots of stuff besides Contra though. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konami_Code)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 01, 2012, 12:13:51 AM
The konami code does not count as a meme.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 01, 2012, 04:56:14 AM
The konami code does not count as a meme.

I agree, it's more like a way of life.

If in doubt, Konami Code it.

If that didn't work, then you have to overcome that challenge on your own.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 01, 2012, 07:52:55 AM
This is a portrait of what the henchman formerly known as Slender (now known as Elder) has become. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: keith.lamothe on December 01, 2012, 09:04:01 AM
Looks like he had a run in with a WoW shadow priest ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 01, 2012, 12:47:54 PM
Looks like he had a run in with a WoW shadow priest ;)

:)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Panopticon on December 01, 2012, 05:15:24 PM
I like the name change to Elder a lot. Very H. P. Lovecraft, and that portrait is fantastic. I just showed it to some friends and they had very positive reactions to it.

I think this is a very good call.

Nice to see Heavy Cat knocking it out of the park like this.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 01, 2012, 05:30:06 PM
I'm loving Elder so far as well.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 01, 2012, 08:22:09 PM
Heavy cat are definitely knocking it out of the park.  Check out some of these actual in-game enemies (not concept art this time).
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 01, 2012, 08:24:18 PM
A few more, since I can't resist.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 01, 2012, 09:27:39 PM
Wasn't there a specific number a frames AVWW1 used for monsters? Those seem to have more variety in number.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 01, 2012, 09:58:04 PM
Most anticipated game for me at the moment? THIS!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 01, 2012, 10:08:11 PM
Wasn't there a specific number a frames AVWW1 used for monsters? Those seem to have more variety in number.

Yeah, usually more like 20ish or so. But it's not about quantity, it's about quality. Also, there are techniques for using the same frame multiple times in a cycle, and we're doing that sort of thing. Plus the first game had single-frame animations for anything that wasn't running of flying, and we now have multi frame animations for attacks and so on.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Panopticon on December 01, 2012, 10:27:32 PM
Oh man that's great stuff.

This is going to hit so many people that wrote AVWW off from left field (to continue the baseball analogies :P ).
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: mrhanman on December 01, 2012, 11:44:03 PM
 :o

I really can't wait to get my hands on this!  8)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Coppermantis on December 02, 2012, 02:54:24 AM
Some of those are quite creepy looking. I like it.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Nanashi on December 02, 2012, 05:41:17 AM
It's coming along pretty well, I see. I like that Land Octopus quite a bit.

Random question: Will multiplayer be available in the beta? I've been considering giving AVWW to a friend as an Xmas gift.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 02, 2012, 06:24:25 AM
It's coming along pretty well, I see. I like that Land Octopus quite a bit.

Random question: Will multiplayer be available in the beta? I've been considering giving AVWW to a friend as an Xmas gift.

It will be there. It probably won't work perfectly out of the gate, but, it's a good bit further along than we had planned, so it will be there. (Unless that's changed in the last couple days...)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: keith.lamothe on December 02, 2012, 08:45:13 AM
Multiplayer worked pretty well in my tests a few days ago, so unless something bizarre happens between now and beta it will be available from the start.

It may do strange and wonderful things, however ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: chemical_art on December 02, 2012, 02:41:19 PM
Very nice looking enemies

(http://pic.jpgdump.com/24601.jpg)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 02, 2012, 03:37:15 PM
While I love the enemies, I'm more excited about the multi-frame attack animations and stuff.  :D
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 03, 2012, 12:46:45 PM
I'm just excited to see how the damn thing plays ^^
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Panopticon on December 03, 2012, 02:31:57 PM
Yep. Chomping at the bit over here too.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 03, 2012, 02:45:47 PM
I'm just excited to see how the damn thing plays ^^

It's pretty different from the first game. :)

I think it's a lot better. Just this morning I was doing the first bits of balancing out the enemies. They're no where near ready, but, already I think the game is a lot more fun. Of course, I'll admit there might be some bias. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 03, 2012, 03:00:36 PM
Yeah, getting the movement of the characters, and the interplay of their spells, was done a long while ago.  And we've been gradually perfecting that, and then starting to get numerical balance on the players spells as well.  Now we're just getting into the enemy detailed implementations, although the designs for them were largely complete ages ago (spells aside).  So many things all to do at once for us!  But it's coming together well at this stage, I'm super pumped about this too. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: icepick37 on December 03, 2012, 05:44:44 PM
Yay! I can't wait for beta.  :D  If I had more time I'd totally jump into the alpha.  :p
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Cyprene on December 03, 2012, 07:28:50 PM
Maybe I wasn't reading the forums at the right time, but I feel like there's more enthusiasm for this release on the Arcen side than there was for AVWW1.

Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 03, 2012, 07:31:25 PM
I definitely think that's true.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 03, 2012, 07:42:51 PM
It's true for me, and I was pretty hyped up for AVWW.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 03, 2012, 09:15:42 PM
Maybe because they already learned a lot from the first one's pros and cons and now know that this new game will hopefully be better received due to all things learned over the past year?

I also feel a much better vibe around here than before. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 03, 2012, 09:22:03 PM
I actually wasn't around then or anything, but I did peruse some very old AI War posts... and Chris seemed very enthusiastic to present his updates, but didn't quite know how to by then. Hadn't figured it all out yet, and was taking feedback, which has led to how awesome this company is. That is, being open to critique, not that the community "made" Arcengames or anything.

But like, I can see less enthusiasm for some of the AVWW stuff. The blog posts about worldgen and stuff were awesome, but I dunno, it wasn't as positive as this was. What I see here are more awesome elements of AI War mixed in with the awesome elements of AVWW, with a fair amount of knowledge-from-experience being put into practice as well. It's almost like every favorite element of the creative process had all come together, at least from the outside looking in. Almost as if like, you know enough to really know what you're doing, but there's enough room for you to make your own interpretations of how to do things as well. It's a happy medium in that they look happy with everything! =D

I might be a bit off on that though.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 03, 2012, 09:51:55 PM
Minor question: will it use a new wiki page for updates? The current AVWW page still has the "we're working on it!" text below the first number.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 03, 2012, 09:56:19 PM
That is, being open to critique, not that the community "made" Arcengames or anything.

I believe that companies who listen to their community do change because of it though. But like you said, not enough to have "made" it.

And Aklyon, I believe it would get it's own wiki page for updates so people don't get confused.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 03, 2012, 10:05:19 PM
That is, being open to critique, not that the community "made" Arcengames or anything.

I believe that companies who listen to their community do change because of it though. But like you said, not enough to have "made" it.

And Aklyon, I believe it would get it's own wiki page for updates so people don't get confused.
It's their own devotion and passion that makes them great, I feel. You don't get this kind of quality because they're just in it for money... and if you read Chris's blog, you get the abundantly clear message that they aren't just making games for moneys.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 04, 2012, 05:26:18 AM
I've been off for awhile with travelling, so I'm only just seeing all this now for the first time.

As probably expected, I'll jump for a chance at this, definitely.  I do alot of alpha/beta testing, so I'm used to things like this.  Not to mention I have alot of time to spare.  I'm thinking I've given a good amount of examples over at your Mantis thing of my general style of testing/reporting, so I'd be doing things very similar to that.  Lots of detail.


Excited for the game nonetheless though!   Definitely eagerly awaiting this one, since AVWW the first is one of my favorite indie titles.

And the graphics stuff is looking good so far, by the way.  I think your choice of art studios (or whatever they're called) was a good one.  It'll be neat to see how that all fits together.


And I'm sure you've answered this question before (I cant remember), but what about the music?  Same guy doing it, I hope?   Or even re-using the songs in AVWW 1?   
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 04, 2012, 05:41:35 AM
Wiki - Yeah, I'm sure there will be a new page, but, right now, we're all way too focused on the game itself. :)

Music - Yes Pablo is doing the music. I've so far only heard a very small bit of the music for the new game, and it's a bit of a different style (not sure how much I can say about it yet). But, it will be done by the same guy. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Gemzo on December 04, 2012, 05:53:31 AM
Arg, you guys are killing me. I've been excitedly checking to see if the alpha has started several times per day. Is it okay to ask for another guess at when things will get rolling?

Also, it was said that there will most likely be multiplayer in the beta. What about the alpha? Forgive me if it's been said already.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 04, 2012, 06:20:06 AM
Arg, you guys are killing me. I've been excitedly checking to see if the alpha has started several times per day. Is it okay to ask for another guess at when things will get rolling?

Also, it was said that there will most likely be multiplayer in the beta. What about the alpha? Forgive me if it's been said already.

God, I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope we can get the alpha started this week. But, Chris can better answer that one.

As for multiplayer, Keith tested it a bit, and it's working. Not sure how WELL it's working, but it's working. So, unless something major breaks between now and then, multiplayer will be part of the alpha.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 04, 2012, 09:15:31 AM
Cheers folks, thanks for all the kind words!

I've made up a handy little spreadsheet on google docs that gives the roadmap between now and 1.0: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtdOj7epD2gRdGlKU2VwbUpOWGNmMmVNYXFGeTFFekE#gid=0

- To hit 1.0, all those items have to turn green.
- To hit beta, all of the orange items have to turn to any other color.
- To hit private alpha, we're pretty much down to monster code, the last of the interior generation, and the last of the strategic macro-game passes.

General predictions:
- I am hopeful that alpha will start on Thursday.  This will likely mean a shorter alpha than we'd planned (but a more polished one from the start), so we'll probably do slightly larger batches of testers than we otherwise would have.
- I am hopeful that we'll be hitting beta "sometime next week," and at this point I'm feeling increasingly confident about that unless major stuff crops up during alpha.

Caveats:
- The line items in that roadmap spreadsheet are pretty broad, so some of them represent dozens or more of hours of work of course.
- There's a good chance that I've also forgotten to put some things on there.  We have a variety of to-do lists that we're working from, so nothing is going to get completely forgotten, but in terms of summing it up in a small list like that, that can be challenging to do without the list just exploding in size in an unhelpful fashion (so we arrive right back at the size of our original to-do lists that the "summary" was made from!).

Final notes:
- I am super, super excited about this game.  Usually at the end of any project there is a general weariness from just how long the whole thing has taken.  But this one has come together fairly quick as far as games of this scope go (thanks to all the foundations from the first game), and so that hasn't set in. Instead I'm just really excited to actually be able to play the game, not just playtest bits and pieces of it.  Once we hit that point is when we start the private alpha.

- Going along with my excitement, there's a ton of stuff that we've added or tweaked or improved since the last time I described the game in depth to you.  So expect some differences, but they are all really pleasant surprises.  Mainly we found little things we could add in quickly and easily that would augment what we were already doing, to make the game (including the exploration elements) feel richer and more satisfying.  However, I think it's more fun if you discover all this sort of thing as you actually play through, rather than having those spoiled in advance, so I've managed to keep my mouth shut for once.  It has been hard. ;)  None of this is earth-shattering stuff, it's just little accent pieces that add a lot to the game when looked at in toto.

- I am still terrified of people's expectations for this game, I have to admit.  I feel we've made a far superior game to the first one, but I'm really worried that people have built up expectations such that we could never live up to them.  That's another big reason I've been so quiet (aside from being crazy busy).  I've been really wary of doing or saying anything that would increase expectations more than they already seem to be around here.  I'm not mentioning this because I'm looking for comfort or bracing comments about how you're sure things will be fine, but more as a glimpse into how it feels to be at this point of a project like this if you've not been here before.  I know from talking to other game creators even of extremely successful games that there's always a moment of terror right before releasing where everyone wonders "what if they don't like it?"  I think I was a little bit arrogant with AVWW1's beta, coming off of the critical smash hits of AI War and Tidalis, and so I just overstepped things.  This time around I've kind of swung to the opposite extreme, and hopefully that's for the better.  Time will tell!

Anyway, bottom line is, excitement and optimism is running really high here, but we're trying not to get run away with ourselves and we're also in heavy crunch mode.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 04, 2012, 09:38:12 AM
I've managed to keep my mouth shut for once.  It has been hard. ;)
Hehe.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 04, 2012, 10:02:47 AM
I'm definitely looking forward to this, but don't worry about anticipation it's not like you pulled a Peter Molyneux and promised the moon! That to do list does look pretty long, I'm guessing 1.0 won't be coming out until 2013, although baby steps of making it to alpha/beta first.

Also Thursday is a good day for an alpha, coming in from out of town that day  8) (not that I have any expectations of getting in heh).
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 04, 2012, 10:03:57 AM
We're expecting 1.0 to be in January, mainly because of the amount of time to finish the art to full quality.  Gameplay-wise I expect to mostly be there by the end of December aside from tweaks and tuning.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 04, 2012, 10:07:47 AM
I also noticed remastered music is on the list. For some reason I recall hearing that the old music was going to be reused. Is it going to be a remix of the old music, or entirely new?

I loved the theme music from AVWW1.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 04, 2012, 10:09:19 AM
It's remastered, mainly -- meaning that it's higher quality and mixed better.  However, most of the chiptune throughlines are being removed and are being replaced with other instrumentation instead.  The effect is that it feels like a modernization of the existing tunes, or an HD-ifying of them.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 04, 2012, 10:15:42 AM
I'll say that at least as an actor in some ten-minute plays... I have been afraid that during those completely silent auditions where the directors and such are listening so intently and judging you so intently, that as they do this, they're secretly thinking all kinds of things that mean I'm not as good as I hoped I would be. It's worse on performance nights as well, though. In acting, you do engage the audience in such a way that you should be fairly well liked if your performance is believable enough and polished enough. But, I don't shake the fear of "I really really hope that they like this as much as I do."
So I mean, I slightly know how that feels. It's at its worst during a ten-minute play... since I'm half the cast often times in those. ;)

Edit: Also, chiptunes did make the game feel a whole lot more old school, but we'll see how the music fits this time around.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 04, 2012, 10:26:06 AM
I kinda liked the chiptunes, they were both neat and gave me a good way to check how loud I'd left my volume at :P

Still interested in how it turns out, though. It could sound better without them perhaps.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 04, 2012, 10:53:22 AM
I kinda liked the chiptunes, they were both neat and gave me a good way to check how loud I'd left my volume at :P

Still interested in how it turns out, though. It could sound better without them perhaps.

I really like the one updated song I've heard so far. Is it better? I can't say, but, it has a very different feel to it, and it's a good listen.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 04, 2012, 11:06:14 AM
We can always mute music and play the old soundtrack, though it obviously won't sync up with the areas. I've always been a fan of the "16-bit" sound style in video games, but I'll still give the new music a listen.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: nas1m on December 04, 2012, 11:07:04 AM
Did I read "equipment" *g*?

EDIT:
I can't say how much I can't wait to get my hands on this game, Chris.
The design described in the blogpost from a few weeks back really got me excited (and hoping for another one ; ))!

The best of luck with this game. I will do my very best to promote it among my friends - no matter what.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 04, 2012, 11:08:41 AM
Did I read "equipment" *g*?

Yes, but I guarantee it's not what you think.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 04, 2012, 11:08:46 AM
Is there any reason why we can't rename the old songs and replace the new songs with those as kind of a "mod" for the music? I mean, not in such a way as to tell Pablo "Hey, we don't like it" but as a way of preferring the more old school songs to the new ones. I mean, we haven't even heard the music yet, but that might be a possibility regardless. Pretty sure I'll keep Valley 2's music where it is anyway, but it'd be neat as an option for people who want to do fancier stuff.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 04, 2012, 11:14:57 AM
Is there any reason why we can't rename the old songs and replace the new songs with those as kind of a "mod" for the music? I mean, not in such a way as to tell Pablo "Hey, we don't like it" but as a way of preferring the more old school songs to the new ones. I mean, we haven't even heard the music yet, but that might be a possibility regardless. Pretty sure I'll keep Valley 2's music where it is anyway, but it'd be neat as an option for people who want to do fancier stuff.

Yup, you can do that.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LayZboy on December 04, 2012, 01:37:25 PM
It's remastered, mainly -- meaning that it's higher quality and mixed better.  However, most of the chiptune throughlines are being removed and are being replaced with other instrumentation instead.  The effect is that it feels like a modernization of the existing tunes, or an HD-ifying of them.


If that god-damn Desert Building / Desert Theme is in there I will just Rage-quit.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 04, 2012, 01:44:35 PM
It's remastered, mainly -- meaning that it's higher quality and mixed better.  However, most of the chiptune throughlines are being removed and are being replaced with other instrumentation instead.  The effect is that it feels like a modernization of the existing tunes, or an HD-ifying of them.

Sounds like it will be like a Mario Game then: Uses the same classic tunes, but redoes them to keep up with the new theme of the game and make them more to the times.



If that god-damn Desert Building / Desert Theme is in there I will just Rage-quit.


Maybe it will be more techno and funky. Or you can replace it with Delfino Plaza (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEp2pasUwB4),  which you love so much, through the fake "modding" LT mentioned.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 04, 2012, 04:30:48 PM
Quote
Sounds like it will be like a Mario Game then: Uses the same classic tunes, but redoes them to keep up with the new theme of the game and make them more to the times.

As long as there aren't "wah" sounds all over the place in literally every song, I'd be fine with it. ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 04, 2012, 04:47:33 PM
How many wahs are in delfino plaza?
(Or are you talking about the sound he makes jumping)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 04, 2012, 05:06:52 PM
How many wahs are in delfino plaza?
(Or are you talking about the sound he makes jumping)

I think he means like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTgbTg55U50).

Or, any (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcL9sWXwvuk) music from (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-MYr9B6T4w) New Super (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUJ2DzhRP4E) Mario Bros. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvZzO1eiqA) Wii. Seriously (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRho8V-m-kA).

Well there are alot of non-wah songs, but still...

-thinks New A Valley Without Wind would be a hit and should have Wahs now-
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 04, 2012, 05:23:08 PM
Oh, that.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 04, 2012, 05:27:46 PM
Personally I love the wahs, but I don't plan on putting them in any game I ever do.  That's a trick that could get overused fast. ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 04, 2012, 05:36:18 PM
Well, maybe you'll think differently when you ressurect your 2D Platformer after going down a 3D route. It shows that you can innovate! Especially when you use it in most of the games thereafter. ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 04, 2012, 05:41:37 PM
Hahahaha.  You're barking up the wrong tree with me, though.  Nintendo fanboi here, though I'm not militant about it. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 04, 2012, 06:05:23 PM
Haha, I was just messing 8) I love Nintendo too. And really love their happy music too. :) I only brought it up because I am currently renting Wii games and playing more of it of late.

Finally gotten round to Super Mario Galaxy 2 and now New Super Mario Bros. Wii and enjoying every bit of them, at least until I get my gaming PC back and can play some of my new PC games and AVWW 2 Beta.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 04, 2012, 06:09:32 PM
Yay for happy music. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7fqllhtdHI)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Wingflier on December 04, 2012, 08:57:11 PM
edit: Good luck guys :P
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Nanashi on December 04, 2012, 09:38:46 PM
That's a really neat design document - when you're talking about animations in multi-player, do you mean some sort of frame buffering or delay solution to synchronise gameplay over latency? I assume all of the animation is being managed client-side, as opposed to host-side. Netcode is kind of interesting.

Music can be really important, but from gamer playing habits (or what I've observed, at least), a majority of players mute in-game music and play their own, or use VOIP (especially in multiplayer).

Do you see any large-name titles coming out this Xmas season that might interfere with the sales of AVWW2? A repeat of what I've seen you call the Diablo 3 effect might not be nice.

edit: Weird request: I have a weird fondness for placeholder artwork. Got any you can share? :P
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 04, 2012, 10:02:11 PM
That's a really neat design document - when you're talking about animations in multi-player, do you mean some sort of frame buffering or delay solution to synchronise gameplay over latency? I assume all of the animation is being managed client-side, as opposed to host-side. Netcode is kind of interesting.

In multiplayer, the remote client animations have to be inferred as position updates and similar are lerped between the last known point and the new point.  Really the only thing to update here is to handle the multi-frame animations in MP properly.

Do you see any large-name titles coming out this Xmas season that might interfere with the sales of AVWW2? A repeat of what I've seen you call the Diablo 3 effect might not be nice.

Erik keeps up with that more than I do, and I'm not aware of anything.  We're keeping a close eye on the timing from... multiple angles, anyhow.

edit: Weird request: I have a weird fondness for placeholder artwork. Got any you can share? :P

Not until the game is more final, sorry -- people take that out of context too easily, so releasing something like that "into the wild" has a good chance of coming back and biting us in the butt. ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 04, 2012, 11:11:14 PM
I can't think of any upcoming big release titles that'll be out soon. I'm maybe not the best source for that, but personally I'm drawing a blank.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Gemzo on December 04, 2012, 11:12:42 PM
Me and a friend were considering doing a let's play of AVWW2 at release(?) possibly. I thought I would see if it was feasible for any of the developers to guest star for a while or something like that. I know very well that everyone has been very busy and there will still be lots of things to do even post-1.0, but I figured I may as well ask and see if this is a possibility somewhere down the line.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: ZCaliber on December 05, 2012, 04:46:29 AM
One thing I'm particularly excited for... Though I'm fully willing to accept it won't be in AVWW2 at all, hearing a remix of the 'Intro mission' song.

It was easily my favorite song of the game, and being a reprise of the title song means there's a chance... Maybe?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 05, 2012, 06:00:18 PM
Gemzo -- it's a possibility.

ZCaliber -- I'm not sure if that's in there or not, I can't recall.  You'll have to wait and see!

As a general note, the alpha is being pushed back yet a little more.  Getting all of this ready has just been a whirlwind, and we don't want to rush this out the door even to the private alpha.  It's looking like the most likely start time for alpha might be late Friday now.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mick on December 05, 2012, 06:17:03 PM
For wanting us to keep our expectations in check you certainly keep us in enough suspense.  :D
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 05, 2012, 06:20:17 PM
Sigh, you're really right. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: keith.lamothe on December 05, 2012, 06:20:37 PM
For wanting us to keep our expectations in check you certainly keep us in enough suspense.  :D
He can't help it ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 05, 2012, 06:38:37 PM
I've managed to keep my mouth shut for once.  It has been hard. ;)

For wanting us to keep our expectations in check you certainly keep us in enough suspense.  :D
He can't help it ;)

 :P
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 05, 2012, 06:41:31 PM
This is like a mini Duke Nukem Forever. A Valley Without Wind Alpha: Released "When it's done." ;D


Don't worry, I kid. I don't get my PC back until the weekend probably at the earliest, so take as long as you want. :P
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: keith.lamothe on December 05, 2012, 06:54:12 PM
This is like a mini Duke Nukem Forever. A Valley Without Wind Alpha: Released "When it's done." ;D
Next time you play DN3D, watch out for the eagles ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 05, 2012, 06:58:10 PM
I'm here to get hit in the face with eagles and chew bubble gum... and I'm all outta bubble gum!  :P
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 05, 2012, 07:00:15 PM
I'm here to get hit in the face with eagles and chew bubble gum... and I'm all outta gum!  :P

I was recently disappointed a few weeks ago when I wanted to show somebody that movie and saw it wasn't on netflix. So sad.

Also, nothing is as epicly delayed as to even jokingly put it in the same sentence as Duke Nukem. Except maybe Blizzard.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 05, 2012, 07:01:42 PM
What movie?  That's a Duke 3D quote.  Are you thinking Die Hard?  Or am I totally missing that this is actually a DH quote?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 05, 2012, 07:07:24 PM
What movie?  That's a Duke 3D quote.  Are you thinking Die Hard?  Or am I totally missing that this is actually a DH quote?

The line "I'm here to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and I'm all out of bubble gum" is from a cheesy 80's movie called "They Live". I'm pretty sure if its in Duke Nukem, they snagged it from that flick.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 05, 2012, 07:09:36 PM
What movie?  That's a Duke 3D quote.  Are you thinking Die Hard?  Or am I totally missing that this is actually a DH quote?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Live

"When Nada enters the bank, he proclaims, "I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I'm all out of bubblegum." The line has become embedded in popular culture and is referenced regularly in the Duke Nukem series of video games by the main protagonist, a parody of 80s macho action heroes."
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 05, 2012, 07:09:57 PM
Wow, that's cool -- I never knew where it originally came from.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 05, 2012, 07:11:55 PM
It's a good movie!*



*If you like movies that are good due to their cheesiness/badness. Which personally I do.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 05, 2012, 07:21:32 PM
It's a good movie!*



*If you like movies that are good due to their cheesiness/badness. Which personally I do.

I love my cheesy things. I should download purchase in a store online some time.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LayZboy on December 05, 2012, 07:27:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YGu4zQgTvg

Related due to beta push-back / Duke-talk.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Penumbra on December 05, 2012, 11:47:40 PM
We rented that movie a long time ago just for that quote... So strange....  ;D

But, the delivery of "the line" is nowhere near as good as Jon St. John.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 07, 2012, 01:04:13 PM
So, as will surprise no one, we're not ready for alpha today.  Beta should definitely be by the end of next week or I'm going to be pretty upset, though.  Alpha will get slotted in... as soon as we have things balanced to a point where the alpha testers wouldn't be wasting their time telling us stuff we already know.  We're getting there!  But this is actually a surprisingly big/deep game; in a lot of respects moreso than AVWW1.

Anyway, as a peace offering to those waiting patiently, here's a (pre-beta, obviously) screencap of the world map.  There's some old text in the bottom left, and some debugging stuff in the upper right.  And the resource bar in the upper left doesn't look quite the way it will in the final build yet, either.

The overlord's work map icon, and the player's icon on the world map, are also placeholder art in both cases.  And the ocean that you can see glimpses of is still the ocean art from the first game.  But the rest of the art is final for this game.  The completely-black areas are areas you've not yet scouted, whereas the partly-dark ones are corrupted tiles.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Penumbra on December 07, 2012, 01:49:02 PM
Oh wow! That looks amazing! It has a nice MoM or even Civ feel to it. Will be great to see this guy in motion!

Will you require testers to sign an NDA to avoid "media leaks" of the placeholder art?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 07, 2012, 01:56:07 PM
We're not that much of sticklers.  Ideally the people who are interested in helping us alpha test have our best interests at heart... and if not, it's not the end of the world with something like this.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mick on December 07, 2012, 01:58:29 PM
Looks intriguing.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Nanashi on December 07, 2012, 02:27:55 PM
"Draws" and "Swaps" make it sound like a card game, and I see chinese styled houses and Freudian towers!

I know modding capabilities aren't a priority right now, but if they ever get added in, I'll probably want to make my own little architecture themepark.

btw: What's the reasoning behind Arcen's habit of writing full clauses such as "Press <button> to <function>" over something more truncated such as "<button>: <function>"? I'm kinda nostalgic about the days when people would write command lists like "eXecute, Open, esCape, saVe, Use" and always just assumed that terse descriptions were favoured to reduce visual clutter.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 07, 2012, 02:30:46 PM
"Draws" and "Swaps" make it sound like a card game

Those are technical terms related to graphics debugging; they're not at all part of the game you'd normally see. :)

btw: What's the reasoning behind Arcen's habit of writing full clauses such as "Press <button> to <function>" over something more truncated such as "<button>: <function>"? I'm kinda nostalgic about the days when people would write command lists like "eXecute, Open, esCape, saVe, Use" and always just assumed that terse descriptions were favoured to reduce visual clutter.

Because often the buttons are things like a number, and then some folks will assume a numbered list instead of button assignments.  Our reason for doing stuff like that comes from long experience with users both in business environments and with our games and things not being clear.  You'd be surprised.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 07, 2012, 02:35:20 PM
btw: What's the reasoning behind Arcen's habit of writing full clauses such as "Press <button> to <function>" over something more truncated such as "<button>: <function>"? I'm kinda nostalgic about the days when people would write command lists like "eXecute, Open, esCape, saVe, Use" and always just assumed that terse descriptions were favoured to reduce visual clutter.
People are stupid. Not kidding. Okay, maybe I'm unfair, but people of today and kids growing up today didn't live during the eighties when commands were obtuse and unexplained and you had to kind of "guess" your way forward, or as you say, understand subtle hints.

Also, we have a LOT more screen estate to play around with these days. Back then, screenspace were kind of a premium in 320x200 resolution ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 07, 2012, 02:40:59 PM
People were stupid in the 80s, too.  But they had giant manuals back then that explained everything in painful depth.  Plus computer use for anything other than word processing was limited to basically just the sort of people who don't need the extra tips now.

On the flip side, put me in front of some Chemistry or Electrical Engineering stuff, and experts in those fields are going to think I'm pretty stupid, too.  It's not so much about stupidity as it is about training (official or incidental-through-familiarity).

Kids these days are actually amazing with how fast they pick up modern-style technical stuff.  Mainly speaking of hardware, phone interfaces, and so on.  Arcen's stuff is a bit more old-school, and aimed at a somewhat more old-school audience, so we have to be more careful.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Lancefighter on December 07, 2012, 02:52:32 PM
People were stupid in the 80s, too.  But they had giant manuals back then that explained everything in painful depth.
And people actually read them, most importantly.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 07, 2012, 02:55:00 PM
People were stupid in the 80s, too.  But they had giant manuals back then that explained everything in painful depth.
And people actually read them, most importantly.

But again, "people" only referred to an extremely technical subgroup.  Now we're talking about the populace at large, with the explosion of computer use.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Wanderer on December 07, 2012, 03:05:16 PM
People were stupid in the 80s, too.  But they had giant manuals back then that explained everything in painful depth.
And people actually read them, most importantly.

But again, "people" only referred to an extremely technical subgroup.  Now we're talking about the populace at large, with the explosion of computer use.

Once Grandma started gaming, there was no turning back.  If Woody had gone to the police, this would never have happened.

Btw, pretty screenshot.  I like the tile artwork.  Is that actual 3D isometric or just some really nice 2D artwork?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: mrhanman on December 07, 2012, 03:13:03 PM
Wow, the new screenshot looks incredible.  Kinda giving me a Populous vibe.  8)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 07, 2012, 03:22:02 PM
People were stupid in the 80s, too.  But they had giant manuals back then that explained everything in painful depth.
And people actually read them, most importantly.
Now people probably would just use them for smacking people with.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 07, 2012, 03:28:54 PM
Glad you guys like the artwork, I agree it's really awesome.  All those tiles were by one tireless woman!  They're all actually 2D art, not 3D.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 07, 2012, 03:29:04 PM
People were stupid in the 80s, too.  But they had giant manuals back then that explained everything in painful depth.
And people actually read them, most importantly.

They also contained correct and comprehensive information written in a proper language. These days it's not even worth reading game manuals because they usually don't contain any information that isn't bleedingly obvious anyway so when you're wondering what this or that stat means or how that multiplayer mode is played you should go straight to the internet because the manual won't tell you either.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 07, 2012, 03:33:34 PM
I've pretty much given up on worrying about making manuals for my own stuff because it's so hard to keep them up current AND almost nobody reads them.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Oralordos on December 07, 2012, 03:40:30 PM
I've pretty much given up on worrying about making manuals for my own stuff because it's so hard to keep them up current AND almost nobody reads them.
I know right? I was looking in the AI War directory to find the name of a file to answer a question here on the forums yesterday and found the AI War manual. I forgot there was one.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 07, 2012, 04:32:06 PM
The AI War manual was awesome, though. Made me long for the olden days where I saved manuals for games and read them when I was bored.

Speaking of awesome, that world map is gorgeous. I remember you had an older picture of that. I felt a bit iffy on it, but I guess it was just because the art wasn't completely done yet. The pop-up nature of things just looked cluttered then, but now it looks more 'real' and 'alive'. I like.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 07, 2012, 04:34:32 PM
Glad you liked the AI War manual.  Depending on when you're referring to, it was either done by Calvin (Revenantus), who did a bit of contract work for us in the past.  Or it was done by my wife, if it's more recent. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 07, 2012, 04:38:17 PM
I honestly don't remember when it was. I might give it a look and offer a more current opinion on it if you suppose Calvin or your wife want that. But, at the time, I remember it seeming cluttered and basically just wrote it off as 'beta is beta'.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 07, 2012, 04:51:08 PM
Eh?  I thought you liked it.  Anyway, no, neither of them would care at all.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 07, 2012, 05:59:25 PM
I think I liked where it was going but I love this one for being kind of really easy to tell what everything is at a glance. Unless... that dark castle ISN'T the evil overlord, and all that jazz.
The sort of fog of war effect helps, I think.
I just seriously love how fantastic the desert looks. It just looks so amazingly alive.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: khadgar on December 08, 2012, 12:15:02 AM
I took a break from gaming for a while, but now here I am again. I didn't read through this entire thread to see if there was a specific place in which I should express my preference to be considered for an alpha tester, so I'll throw it here.

Draw me from the professional QA experience pool if you need more from this camp. Also, I haven't followed the development of AVWW2 even a single iota (other than the fact that it is happening), so there's that as well.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 08, 2012, 12:19:06 AM
Its in ze first post, you need to pm tigersfan. ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Lancefighter on December 08, 2012, 12:58:56 AM
and then probably wait until q42013, when youll receive a reply about avww3 theyre finally alphaing.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Nanashi on December 08, 2012, 07:22:47 AM
I see. Thanks for being so patient and answering all my questions - I really appreciate how refreshingly candid everyone is, and I'm rather envious of the heart you put into it. :3

Please take your time and nurture your game with care - although I'm pretty sure there's rather a lot of anticipation on the forums, I'd personally like it more if you made a priority of taking good care of yourselves. Since your target market is in an older age bracket, I'm sure that most of them understand the virtues of patience.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Knightlord64 on December 08, 2012, 10:27:35 AM
Wow, that picture looks awesome! Can't wait till beta. Keep up the good work!

What kinds of DLC are you guys planning on having? Will there be any any new overlords or henchmen as DLC? While the overlords having a backstory helps with immersion, I think it would get old after I played it as much as I did the first game.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: keith.lamothe on December 08, 2012, 10:32:46 AM
What kinds of DLC are you guys planning on having?
Whether there's DLC depends on how well the game sells :)  As for what it would be, I leave that to Chris to say ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: BobTheJanitor on December 08, 2012, 12:44:09 PM
I'm holding out hope for some sweet horse armor DLC myself.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 08, 2012, 01:32:08 PM
In terms of what the DLC -- or really, AI War style expansion packs -- might be, it would really depend on what most seems interesting to the playerbase and ourselves at the time.  It's always hard to plan that sort of thing in advance unless you're deliberately holding something back, which we're not.  That said, there's always more that can be done in a compelling game world, which we hope you'll find this one to be. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 08, 2012, 01:49:44 PM
Here's another screenshot tease.  This one has the same debugging info in the upper right, which would not normally be there.  It also has the miasma dangerfall graphics from the first game at this point (which I intend to replace), and it's showing a piece of character art from the first game (I just haven't had time to code in the last batch of new character art from heavy cat, it's not like we don't have it).

This is from an area of the game where you go to level up.  You can also see the entire HUD down in the bottom left of the screen.  You have four four spells from your mage class (the rightmost one of which costs ammo), you can see how much ammo you have, how many mercenary coins you have, and then what your health is like (the 71 is 71/100 on the third of four health tanks, ala Metroid).

Another fun thing to notice is that we now have angled background walls for the grounds outside, which helps those to look more organic like the foreground ones do.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 08, 2012, 01:52:27 PM
Why hearts?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 08, 2012, 01:53:25 PM
People associate that with health, so it's immediately clear what that is.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Penumbra on December 08, 2012, 01:58:32 PM
That background gives me kind of a Phantasy Star vibe. It's looking really great.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 08, 2012, 02:04:38 PM
Oh man, the game's looking very awesome in terms of art. That's one of them things I was thinking about, because you just can't tell with only pictures of sprites, or development screenshots. Looks better and better the closer it gets to beta time. Great job to you guys and Heavy Cat (is that their name?).
I also want to say man, I feel like a jerk for being critical over the placeholder art. I meant to say that it looked alright and that it now looks awesome.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LayZboy on December 08, 2012, 02:41:00 PM
The background of the Spells in the hotkeybar looks like it could use some work, it really sticks out in a bad way.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Nanashi on December 08, 2012, 04:00:55 PM
As a biologist, this kinda bugs me: Why does AVWW2 leafy foliage only grow indoors on the ceiling of caves? Is it just being contrary?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 08, 2012, 04:21:38 PM
As a biologist, this kinda bugs me: Why does AVWW2 leafy foliage only grow indoors on the ceiling of caves? Is it just being contrary?
I think its because it can't be stepped on on the ceilings.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 08, 2012, 04:32:06 PM
People associate that with health, so it's immediately clear what that is.

While true, going with green seems like an odd choice.

It makes me think he's poisoned.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 08, 2012, 05:20:32 PM
People associate that with health, so it's immediately clear what that is.

While true, going with green seems like an odd choice.

It makes me think he's poisoned.
Green is the color of being healthy in health bars, and the color of being poisoned with more abstract health indicators.
Red is the color of being healthy with hearts, but it's the color of being nearly dead or on fire with health bars or numbers.
UI design is bizarre.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Martyn van Buren on December 08, 2012, 05:26:08 PM
Yeah I have to agree.  Green hearts are odd.  That isn't the toxic-looking forest green I associate with poison; it just makes me wonder if the character is a plant.  Which would be cool.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 08, 2012, 05:31:14 PM
What if they were purple hearts? It would match the oblivion crystal and stuff.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 08, 2012, 06:03:47 PM
Here they start green, get yellow when you are middling, and get red when you are low.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 08, 2012, 06:12:54 PM
Here they start green, get yellow when you are middling, and get red when you are low.

I see, that makes sense.

Though please no beeping or flashing screen when one hit away from death!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Oralordos on December 08, 2012, 06:24:12 PM
Though please no beeping or flashing screen when one hit away from death!
shudders Zelda flashbacks. I never had a problem with Navi, but that low health beep was the most annoying thing ever.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 08, 2012, 06:31:38 PM
Though please no beeping or flashing screen when one hit away from death!
shudders Zelda flashbacks. I never had a problem with Navi, but that low health beep was the most annoying thing ever.

That's exactly what I was thinking, I know it was in other games too. But the Zelda one I remember most.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 08, 2012, 06:47:37 PM
Here it's more of a screech, and the whole screen shakes in a dizzying way and flashes red.  But only when you're lower than 70% health.







(I kid, of course.  There's nothing like the Zelda beeping, which I also found the greatest incentive not to take damage).
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 08, 2012, 06:49:37 PM
You could always do it the pokemon way and turn the beeping into a special audio track that interrupts the battle music after 4 previous generations of games have had beeping. :P

Because that was a pretty nifty idea.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 08, 2012, 06:51:05 PM
I find that if there is a low health sound, it's got to be like, a heartbeat or other kind of deep sound. The metroid low health sounds also never bothered me, not in the "I'm so annoyed" sense. More of in the "I'm panicking because the siren won't go away" sense. What I'm getting at is, I do like when there's an indicator of low health. It's just that most indicators are so obnoxious that they get you killed more often than not.

Ooh, Aklyon, are you talking about a low health battle song that replaces the regular songs? That'd be pretty nifty as well.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 08, 2012, 06:53:41 PM
I like the metroid low health sound as well, and actually some of the later Zeldas had a very dull un-grating sort of sound to them, too.  I'm not sure what we'll do with that sort of thing yet, thus far I'm still focused on more core areas.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 08, 2012, 07:08:27 PM
Ooh, Aklyon, are you talking about a low health battle song that replaces the regular songs? That'd be pretty nifty as well.
Yep. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHItAqaW_EAl)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 08, 2012, 08:35:33 PM
Yeah I have to agree.  Green hearts are odd.  That isn't the toxic-looking forest green I associate with poison; it just makes me wonder if the character is a plant.  Which would be cool.

You ruined the mid-game plot-twist!

Also, that music Aklyon is quite cool, but might get annoying if you are constantly on health-alert in the game. I'd prefer maybe more tranquil, sad music when you are low on health, sorta like you might die, so the music starts to die too.  :P

It will make the player more attached to there character. There is this character, which is of their own design, wandering through this harsh abyss with music which symbolises their death.

I mean can you imagine what emotions would seep into your brain when you hear this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn-i7QpQFKU) in a tower you are climbing? It would make you think "I have to do this! No time to lose!". It would bring the player closer to the character like never before.

Or even this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Am4cHMBKM) as you wander through the grassy land with 10% health, trying to avoid being hit by the harsh environment ahead. These will immerse you into the environment even more than normal.  ;D


I half-kid here, but the music should not be upbeat if you are low on health as it can get annoying if you are constantly at that health, feeling always on the edge with the music fast-paced like the Pokemon Black/White song. I would feel more fragile and cautious when the music is more tranquil and i'm low on health.

An example is when a slower-paced song comes onto AI War, especially this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4lGLgPM5Lc), I usually think of the task I have ahead of me: 5 planets captured, 60 to go through, overwhelming odds. For that brief moment in time, you feel like you might not be able to live up to the task you have been set.

If put at the right moment, music can make you feel a range of emotions. A bleeping every now and again does not. I think Galaxy 2 or a game I played recently did that often and I hated it so much.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: chemical_art on December 08, 2012, 09:32:01 PM
The last time I remember a really "loud" beeping sound was from Wipeout HD. It's a game made to have you race at high speed to techno music. Once you are down to a third of your health a light beeping like a car interior dinging sound occurs that is first barely noticeable but as it gets louder starts to overtake both the sounds and the music of the game, till you get under 10% health and mostly all your hear is it.

It is jarring, but whether it is good or not is up to opinion. Usually you are in the "loud" 10% health range for 30 seconds tops before you either recover the health or you die, and most of the time your health drops from >10% to 0% in a weapons barrage, so on average you hear it once every few races. The process of it I think was meant to be jarring, to break you out of your trance to pay extra attention to preserving and recovering health.

I liked the system, but because it was intense and very rare. The situation to get the "quiet" alarm is fairly frequent, but mostly serves as another queue to not go offense but play defense for a moment to recover health. The loud alarm is key as a counter point to the usual trance sound effects of the game. But, for example, I encountered the blaring sound every race, I would get very annoyed.

So I think there is a definite relation between intensity and frequency of near death situations. At heart the near death situation, to be effective and not just a pure negative, you need it to alert you to situations you would not otherwise notice. In addition, it needs to somehow enhance the situation but not very frequently.  Lastly, the duration of the effect needs to be short, either by having the game somehow being of a nature being near death is short before exiting said state, or having the cues initially be strong but "fade away" if the near death state persists for more then a brief time.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 08, 2012, 10:50:37 PM
I think my favorite thing for low health music that I just remembered was Yoshi's Story, where it actually is the same song, but really really sad, because Yoshis don't die, they just get sad.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 08, 2012, 11:24:33 PM
I think my favorite thing for low health music that I just remembered was Yoshi's Story, where it actually is the same song, but really really sad, because Yoshis don't die, they just get sad.

That is what I would like. :D
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 08, 2012, 11:27:29 PM
I think my favorite thing for low health music that I just remembered was Yoshi's Story, where it actually is the same song, but really really sad, because Yoshis don't die, they just get sad.

Isn't Yoshi a dinosaur? Because they certainly go extinct.  :D
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 08, 2012, 11:37:34 PM
No, Yoshi is a yoshi. :P

And now I want to play Yoshi's story. I never got to finish that...
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: keith.lamothe on December 09, 2012, 12:16:29 PM
Isn't Yoshi a dinosaur? Because they certainly go extinct.  :D
Dinosaurs didn't go extinct, they migrated into video games.  Where, for example, they lurk in lava to leap out and eat you while you pass by (what were you doing in the lava flats anyway?).
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: reisalomao on December 09, 2012, 04:32:57 PM
I still have not received an invitation to test the game  :-\
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 09, 2012, 04:34:07 PM
I still have not received an invitation to test the game  :-\

No-one has yet.  This is a long thread, but essentially we keep pushing it back.  We aim to be into alpha this week, though, and beta also at the end of the week if we can at all help it.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: reisalomao on December 09, 2012, 04:46:07 PM
 :D Thanks for the info Chris
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 09, 2012, 04:53:36 PM
Np!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 09, 2012, 07:08:36 PM
Maybe when a scheduled event like this is going on, you should grab a pinned and closed thread and edit it with details, or like make additional posts to make sure people know that it's updated. That way we can still go way off topic about dinosaurs that lay eggs that contain mushrooms and other people can still tell what's going on as far as alpha/beta goes.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 09, 2012, 07:51:36 PM
Yeah, I should -- just lots going on and it will be any day now.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 10, 2012, 07:48:35 PM
I suppose it is a bit late for that in this case. ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Oralordos on December 12, 2012, 07:55:17 PM
Quote
Music
23 fully remastered and/or rearranged tracks from AVWW1 are complete. 9 more tracks of at least beta quality, with a good amount of remastering/rearranging but still some tuning desired. 9 more tracks just pulled from the first game for now, still awaiting their remastering/rearranging. 10 more tracks pulled from various AI War items, and in some cases cut down or otherwise altered to fit here. Most of these AI War ones will get another looking-at of some sort, but they fit SUPER well here. All in all, there are 51 tracks counting the title track. The title track has been remastered and rearranged, and will be used in some fashion; but it's one of the ones considered beta quality for the moment because we're going to have an all-new track for the title theme of Valley 2 by 1.0.
:o
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 12, 2012, 08:17:16 PM
We have all of us been quiiiiite busy. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 12, 2012, 08:19:58 PM
Is it a good thing, a bad thing, or an awesome thing that you're able to use AI War music outside of AI War while still being fitting?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 12, 2012, 08:22:32 PM
I think it's an awesome thing.  A lot of the themes between AI War and Valley 2 are similar anyway, though: desolation, humanity on the edge, a vastly stronger opponent that you are waging guerrilla warfare on, a hardy band of survivors being strategically led by you, and so on.  Also, most of the AI War tracks were used in some of the high technology parts of the game, from the future regions where robots had taken over the world.  I like to think of the two universes intersecting there anyhow, and now they musically intersect there as well, which helps even more.

EDIT: And I should clarify, the vast majority of AI War music would not be remotely appropriate for Valley 2 anyhow.  It just has such a large library of music at this point that we could pull some really fitting stuff.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: reisalomao on December 12, 2012, 08:35:01 PM
please, dont change the intro music, its awsome! I'm whistling all the time :P
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 12, 2012, 08:47:03 PM
You can always just copypaste the original tunes in if you want, rei. I'm pretty sure we talked about that not far back in the thread.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 12, 2012, 08:49:31 PM
I always get my hopes up when I see new posts here, only to have those hopes completely shattered. I hope y'all are happy!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 12, 2012, 09:02:29 PM
I always get my hopes up when I see new posts here, only to have those hopes completely shattered. I hope y'all are happy!

Sorry!  I don't know if this is any help or not, but we actually were hoping to get to the alpha tonight, and technically we kind of could, but there's still enough stuff that's not clear enough at the start that we decided to keep addressing all that first.  I know I've said this repeatedly, but we're getting very close now.  I also should have a new post tomorrow with a lot of new screenshots and so on.  Maybe video, we'll see.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 12, 2012, 09:05:10 PM
Heh, I was only half serious about my hopes being shattered, no worries ;)

I wouldn't complain about gameplay footage though!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Bluddy on December 12, 2012, 09:55:17 PM
My schedule's cleared up quite a bit, so I'd be happy to do the alpha thing whenever it's out.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 12, 2012, 10:04:31 PM
Mine, as well. Whether you're still taking candidates or not, I can wait for the beta if that's a better idea.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 12, 2012, 10:15:01 PM
We're definitely still taking candidates, thanks guys.  Make sure and PM josh (tigersfan) just to make sure he has your info, although he'll probably see it here.  I expect the alpha is going to be shorter than we otherwise would have planned, but also hopefully cleaner from the start.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 12, 2012, 10:26:25 PM
:)  Was hoping to get in if you are still doing the alpha thingee, Really looking forward to the game, its sounding awesome! 

p.s.  oh, sent Tigersfan a pm,  :)  Thank you!

Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 13, 2012, 06:09:03 AM
Yes, if you want in, please send me a PM (most of you have). The reason is that I really only want to look for folks in one place when the time comes.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 13, 2012, 08:22:28 AM
Yes, if you want in, please send me a PM (most of you have). The reason is that I really only want to look for folks in one place when the time comes.
Oh you lazy bum ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 13, 2012, 08:28:56 AM
Yes, if you want in, please send me a PM (most of you have). The reason is that I really only want to look for folks in one place when the time comes.
Oh you lazy bum ;)

*crosses Moonshine Fox off the invite list....* :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 13, 2012, 08:29:27 AM
*crosses Moonshine Fox off the invite list....* :)
I wasn't on it ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 13, 2012, 08:31:52 AM
*crosses Moonshine Fox off the invite list....* :)
I wasn't on it ;)

Hmmmmm... *Brings out the ban hammer....*
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 13, 2012, 08:34:45 AM
For anyone new to the forums, Josh is joking -- we wouldn't use that as a consideration.  ;) But Moonshine Fox is an old hand here, so there's a lot of comfort for joking.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 13, 2012, 09:00:31 AM
For anyone new to the forums, Josh is joking -- we wouldn't use that as a consideration.  ;) But Moonshine Fox is an old hand here, so there's a lot of comfort for joking.
Did....you just... call me old? :(

;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 13, 2012, 09:26:33 AM
That would be quite a stretch to infer! ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 13, 2012, 12:49:01 PM
For anyone new to the forums, Josh is joking -- we wouldn't use that as a consideration.  ;) But Moonshine Fox is an old hand here, so there's a lot of comfort for joking.

Sorry that wasn't clear, but yes, I was joking.

While I'm here though, let me say that I'm really appreciative of the support you all have shown for this. I've gotten a lot more PMs than I expected for this. I hope we're able to deliver on the excitement this game seems to be generating.

Also, that means there may be many of you who don't get in, and, like Chris said, please don't take that personally, but we can only handle so much feedback at this point, so in order to not get overwhelmed, we can't accept everyone.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: mrhanman on December 13, 2012, 12:59:39 PM
I'm old! Does that improve my consideration for the alpha?  8)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Hyfrydle on December 13, 2012, 01:01:27 PM
How will the people accepted for the alpha find out?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: keith.lamothe on December 13, 2012, 01:03:28 PM
How will the people accepted for the alpha find out?
The message will be delivered via Eagle to your face.  Don't worry youit can't miss ityou :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Hyfrydle on December 13, 2012, 01:05:48 PM
Please don't mention the dreaded eagles I avoid all areas with eagles like the plague.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 13, 2012, 01:06:53 PM
When the time comes, I'll most likely be responding directly to the PMs I was sent. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Hyfrydle on December 13, 2012, 01:09:29 PM
Okay thanks for the replies hope you got my PM okay.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 13, 2012, 01:19:13 PM
Josh -- I suggest sending both a PM and also emailing the email address they have on file with the forums.  As we've learned recently, sometimes people don't get PM notifications, and given the time-sensitive nature of this...
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 13, 2012, 01:51:10 PM
Chris - Sure thing.

Hyfrydle, I did get your PM. The forums don't save outgoing PMs by default, so you may not have record of it, but, I got it. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 13, 2012, 02:07:09 PM
The forums don't save outgoing PMs by default, so you may not have record of it, but, I got it. :)
And that drove me crazy before I figured it out :P
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 13, 2012, 02:18:28 PM
The forums don't save outgoing PMs by default, so you may not have record of it, but, I got it. :)
And that drove me crazy before I figured it out :P
Me too. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Lancefighter on December 13, 2012, 10:32:01 PM
So uh. Hows uhm. The weather. Is it looking to be windy tonight?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 13, 2012, 10:34:02 PM
We are just now sending out the alpha invites to the first group -- if you're not in the first group (I don't know who's in which group, honestly), please don't be offended.  We're trying to capture people's first impressions as the alpha matures, and we can't do that if we put everyone in on day one, as I noted above.

I will have a let's play video up, and more screenshots, tonight, though.  Just working on the video now, while Josh sends out the invites.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Lancefighter on December 13, 2012, 10:45:25 PM
I would like to remind anyone who might be in the alpha that the #aiwar irc channel, (on appliedirc) is available to discuss how much fun youre having. Also available to maybe host multiplayer games if that works. Also, I would love to see Chris and Keith and Josh there to celebrate the beginning of a golden age in Arcen's history.

Also, chrome told me the file is 'not commonly downloaded and might be dangerous'
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 13, 2012, 11:19:07 PM
Ok. Just so everyone knows. I've now sent out all the invites for the first round. If you didn't get one... Sorry, we just didn't have enough room for everyone. :(
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 13, 2012, 11:19:41 PM
But -- another round will go out late tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Coppermantis on December 14, 2012, 12:31:48 AM
I would like to remind anyone who might be in the alpha that the #aiwar irc channel, (on appliedirc) is available to discuss how much fun youre having. Also available to maybe host multiplayer games if that works. Also, I would love to see Chris and Keith and Josh there to celebrate the beginning of a golden age in Arcen's history.

Also, chrome told me the file is 'not commonly downloaded and might be dangerous'

Chrome told me that as well and then I accidentally clicked "discard", I have to download it again.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Wanderer on December 14, 2012, 05:25:00 AM
We are just now sending out the alpha invites to the first group -- if you're not in the first group (I don't know who's in which group, honestly), please don't be offended.  We're trying to capture people's first impressions as the alpha matures, and we can't do that if we put everyone in on day one, as I noted above.

Chris, I wouldn't worry about that TOO much.  Some of us are waiting to be the first in the Beta.  At least one of us.

Most of us get it and most of us want to try to support you fellers as much as possible.  i know there's always that one dude, but, really, it's cool... At least I like to think I know most of the regulars to believe that...
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 14, 2012, 06:59:24 AM
We are just now sending out the alpha invites to the first group -- if you're not in the first group (I don't know who's in which group, honestly), please don't be offended.  We're trying to capture people's first impressions as the alpha matures, and we can't do that if we put everyone in on day one, as I noted above.

Chris, I wouldn't worry about that TOO much.  Some of us are waiting to be the first in the Beta.  At least one of us.

Most of us get it and most of us want to try to support you fellers as much as possible.  i know there's always that one dude, but, really, it's cool... At least I like to think I know most of the regulars to believe that...

Sorry, I refuse to buy any more of Arcen Games' Portfolio of games now that they have refused my entry into the first Private Alpha.

Good day to you, gentlemen! -gets his bowler hat on and slams the door in the most vulgar way possible-
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mick on December 14, 2012, 08:08:38 AM
You mentioned somewhere that keyboard+mouse is gone. How are the controls now with that change, and does it play and map naturally to an XBOX360 controller?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 14, 2012, 08:12:14 AM
You mentioned somewhere that keyboard+mouse is gone. How are the controls now with that change, and does it play and map naturally to an XBOX360 controller?

As with the first game, the keys are completely rebindable and you can map it naturally to any gamepad. There are apparently several different inherent variants of 360 controller mappings, so no guarantee the defaults will be right for you. Still -- it's simple enough to remedy.

It plays a loooooot better without the mouse, honestly. Lots more like a traditional metroidvania, and the combat has a lot more interesting choices because of it.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mick on December 14, 2012, 08:32:52 AM
You mentioned somewhere that keyboard+mouse is gone. How are the controls now with that change, and does it play and map naturally to an XBOX360 controller?
There are apparently several different inherent variants of 360 controller mappings

Thank you, this is mostly what I wanted to hear. :)

I just like having good defaults. Some games with controller options seem to just assign the keys randomly and expect you to configure it yourself, and then I'm all - what the hell is "Button 11"?

Would you say the keyboard and gamepad are very similar? Does it have analog aiming? That can't really be done on a keyboard.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 14, 2012, 08:57:17 AM
The gamepad and keyboard are very similar.  There is no second-stick analog aiming (that would be akin to mouse support).  Rather, this is movement-directed aiming, where your shots go where you aim.  You can't aim behind yourself without turning around.  However, there are buttons for aiming up and down at an angle without moving, which on the gamepad tend to work best as the shoulder buttons.  In a lot of respects it's very similar to how Super Metroid or similar controls.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 14, 2012, 09:14:29 AM
The gamepad and keyboard are very similar.  There is no second-stick analog aiming (that would be akin to mouse support).  Rather, this is movement-directed aiming, where your shots go where you aim.  You can't aim behind yourself without turning around.  However, there are buttons for aiming up and down at an angle without moving, which on the gamepad tend to work best as the shoulder buttons.  In a lot of respects it's very similar to how Super Metroid or similar controls.

It really does feel just like Super Metroid's aim style though, since you mention it.   Pretty much exactly like it, actually. Having the "angle" buttons like that game did was a superb idea.

What I've played of it so far, this seriously does work out MUCH better (and much more interesting) than the targeting in the previous game.  Cant just target things and then run around like a moron while spamming the fire button anymore, and it also means that I definitely cant just fire just ONE spell over and over and expect to get somewhere.

This though was after shouting at the accursed PS3 controller for like an hour in an attempt to make it work.   Really, I dont know why Sony couldnt have just made the horrid things plug-n-play.... instead I have to smash multiple programs together to get that to work.   Once it IS up and going though, the game itself has absolutely no troubles with it.  I'm betting it'll have no issues whatsoever with a 360 one.


So, are we able to talk much about it on here, then, or would you rather we wait to say too much until the alpha is done?


Either way, I've only had about 2 hours with it so far..... I didn't notice the e-mail or PM until very late..... but I sent a big blob of feedback nonetheless.   I can at least say, this is looking very, very good so far, aside from some screwball balance issues.   

And those lumpy fireball-throwing dudes are incredibly annoying at times.  Just thought I'd point that out :P   Though, not at "eagle" level of annoying, not even close.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Coppermantis on December 14, 2012, 09:19:18 AM
I haven't played much of it, but the gameplay does seem better than AVWW1 so far. I would like mouse control for the menus and dialog windows, however, but it's not a huge issue right now.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 14, 2012, 09:20:58 AM
They aren't plugnplay because bluetooth shenanigans. Meanwhile, I need to go find my PS2 controller and adapter.

Also, while not being in the alpha, I second the mouse support for menus thing.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 14, 2012, 09:22:00 AM
I think I prefer that type of movement and firing. Mainly because it means gamepad and keyboard are both viable options depending on what people enjoy using more.

Me? I'm more of a gamepad sorta guy for my platformers. Just feels more old-timey and suits the game type more.

And those lumpy fireball-throwing dudes are incredibly annoying at times.  Just thought I'd point that out :P   Though, not at "eagle" level of annoying, not even close.

Well I think if the game wants to me more Metroidvania, it should have something as annoying as the eagles back in just to be the Medusa Heads of the game.

I seriously can't wait to dive into the game when I get my invite/when beta comes.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 14, 2012, 09:25:32 AM
I haven't played much of it, but the gameplay does seem better than AVWW1 so far. I would like mouse control for the menus and dialog windows, however, but it's not a huge issue right now.

Oh yeah, this.   This is the bit I forgot about in my feedback thing.   This really would be very helpful.

I think I prefer that type of movement and firing. Mainly because it means gamepad and keyboard are both viable options depending on what people enjoy using more.

Me? I'm more of a gamepad sorta guy for my platformers. Just feels more old-timey and suits the game type more.

And those lumpy fireball-throwing dudes are incredibly annoying at times.  Just thought I'd point that out :P   Though, not at "eagle" level of annoying, not even close.

Well I think if the game wants to me more Metroidvania, it should have something as annoying as the eagles back in just to be the Medusa Heads of the game.

I seriously can't wait to dive into the game when I get my invite/when beta comes.

Oh, I wont disagree with that, hah.   Any game like this has to have some sort of "Goddamn Bats" sort of monster in it.   I always thought though that the eagles went way beyond Medusa heads, or even Ninja Gaiden Birds.... they were just THAT aggravating.   This game so far, that sort of monster seems at the proper level of "annoying" this time around :p

The lumpy jerks sure are satisfying to flatten though.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 14, 2012, 09:35:46 AM
The one thing I am interested in, which we may not find out until Post-Beta, is how long the game takes to be beaten.

And besides adding game-length, is there any advantage to playing on a bigger map?

And replay value. In writing, the replay value seems decent with different classes and that, but I wonder how that holds up in actual play-through.


Though I will wait patiently for those answers as they probably are not key within an Alpha or Beta. :P
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 14, 2012, 09:48:56 AM
In terms of discussing the game here while it's still in alpha... I don't inherently have a problem with that, but I do want to avoid poisoning the first impressions of new alpha testers that will be coming tonight and so forth.  I'm worried that my video, which I'm sure many of them watched, already did that though. ;)  What I mean by "poisoning" is that they know more than somebody coming to it blind would, and thus don't stumble where someone later will.  If someone is going to stumble or be confused later, we want you alpha testers to stumble and be confused now, so that we can fix it and those that come after have a better experience.

That's my only reservation about talking about alpha at the moment.  So what I suggest is maybe creating a separate thread with a header that says something like ***IF YOU'VE SIGNED UP TO ALPHA TEST BUT ARE NOT YET, DON'T READ THIS PLEASE*** and then talk freely in there.


To the question about mouse support for the menus, we've explicitly removed that.  The reasoning: we can't have half-baked mouse support in there (although we do in a few sections at the start of the game, which we're going to fix with time).  If there's mouse support for menus, then mouse support is expected for tooltips and a host of other things.  If we add tooltips and other things like that for the mouse, then we wind up gimping the gamepad experience and keyboard-only experience by comparison.  Suddenly you never know if you're missing something by not hovering with the mouse, etc.  It's a lot clearer for all concerned to focus on one control style, namely the one that matches the gameplay, and to simply work on making sure that flows as smoothly and quickly as possible at all times.

The one thing I am interested in, which we may not find out until Post-Beta, is how long the game takes to be beaten.

That's something we're interested in, too.  We've not played a full game session yet, though Keith has come close.  Our best guess is about 12 hours on a normal sized map, but that's one of the things that we are collecting data on from alpha.  Generally speaking, we're expecting it to take 80-140 turns to complete the game on a normal map, depending on how quickly and expertly you move around, how the luck of the mapgen was, what the overlord chooses to do, etc.  Overall most turns should be taking in the neighborhood of around 5 minutes at most, although many will take more like 2.  However, there are some special things that happen at various points in the game that take you into an extended bit of adventuring for 15-20 minutes before you get back to regular turns.

And besides adding game-length, is there any advantage to playing on a bigger map?

Yes, it affects the balance of how fast the aggression of enemies scales up.  So each turn "matters less" in a lot of senses.  Of course, you'll be taking more of them, so the cumulative effect is similar, but it gives you more decision points per point in time.  I suspect with each map size the experience is pretty different, but right now we've been focusing exclusively on Normal.  On larger maps you also have more room to kite the overlord.

And replay value. In writing, the replay value seems decent with different classes and that, but I wonder how that holds up in actual play-through.

It's a strategy game at core, with Metroidvania stuff on top.  I think the replay value comes from the strategic side more than anything else, although the adventuring bits do have lots of "let's try it this way this time" sort of decisions.  I think the replay value here is higher than AVWW1.  Once you get past three continents and have "seen it all" in AVWW1, there's no real incentive to keep playing anymore.  Here the game definitively ends earlier than that, but there is a much more interesting incentive to play again, in the same sense there is with AI War or any other strategy game.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 14, 2012, 10:00:34 AM
If you're in the alpha, here's the changelog: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Valley_2_-_Pre-Beta_Release_Notes

If you're not, but plan to be, you may wish to abstain from that to preserve your first impression if you don't mind.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 14, 2012, 10:12:20 AM
I would still say after reading everything and the video, i'm still blind to the whole game, but I pick things up fast.

I should plan to no-life the game on all the settings and record my times then xD


Lastly, the Turn-Based Nature with Platform undertones makes it sound like how X-Com or Total War (except those are strategy on both gametypes) is with 2 types of gameplay mixed in. Sounds cool like that.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mick on December 14, 2012, 10:20:37 AM
I would still say after reading everything and the video, i'm still blind to the whole game, but I pick things up fast.

I should plan to no-life the game on all the settings and record my times then xD


Lastly, the Turn-Based Nature with Platform undertones makes it sound like how X-Com or Total War (except those are strategy on both gametypes) is with 2 types of gameplay mixed in. Sounds cool like that.

It's actually a lot like Actraiser. Which is good, cause that was an awesome game.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 14, 2012, 10:35:09 AM
I would still say after reading everything and the video, i'm still blind to the whole game, but I pick things up fast.

I should plan to no-life the game on all the settings and record my times then xD


Lastly, the Turn-Based Nature with Platform undertones makes it sound like how X-Com or Total War (except those are strategy on both gametypes) is with 2 types of gameplay mixed in. Sounds cool like that.

It's actually a lot like Actraiser. Which is good, cause that was an awesome game.


That is a good way to put it.   Though, probably with a bit better pacing and more depth.   I liked Actraiser in theory, but in practice..... waaaayyyyyyyyy too much sorta sitting around waiting on the world map (I'm SO glad THIS game is doing it turn-based instead of real-time!), and not enough running around stabbing things. 

I havent seen enough of the strategic mode just yet myself.  The majority of that 2 hours of play so far was me exploring random tiles to get an idea of what was in them, and occaisionally either A: dying, or B: running into a goofy glitch, or C: arguing with my controller, which would spaz out every now and then because Sony, and sometimes because Windows.     One thing I did notice immediately though, is that even just in the very small starting area, there's tons of different types of tiles.   Seems like there's going to be many, many more tile types than in the first game, which is a good thing.  I think my biggest issues with the first game were all related to the worldmap.  There was so much that could have been done with that part of the game, yet wasnt.  Looking like this one, though, is going to be doing all of that.   Cant wait to really dive into it here.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mick on December 14, 2012, 10:40:59 AM
I liked Actraiser in theory, but in practice..... waaaayyyyyyyyy too much sorta sitting around waiting on the world map (I'm SO glad THIS game is doing it turn-based instead of real-time!), and not enough running around stabbing things. 

I remember when I played Actraiser I loved the SimCity part a lot more than the platforming. So I would always be rushing through the platforming part to get back to building my town.   :P

The game was a very odd combo, but it worked!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 14, 2012, 12:36:25 PM
I dreamed I was playing this game based on that short video Chris released.
All I got to do was pick a mage class and choose a mission though. I didn't actually go into any map square or anything.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 14, 2012, 07:14:27 PM
Didn't want to read the entries since yesterday, fearing spoilers, since i'm just in the opening right now, but have to say, IT IS BEAUTIUL!!!!   :)  I AM LOVING IT!!!

:)

-T

p.s. will come back and read stuff later, after i'm a bit into it and not too worried the reading and video will let me know too much!
:)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 14, 2012, 07:16:55 PM
Thanks, Teal -- I have to say, I really needed that after Youtube commenters and just the mention of the RPS comments (which I've not read).  The art isn't mine this time, and I think it's beautiful too -- but some folks expect multimillion dollar graphics from every game they see, apparently.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 14, 2012, 07:18:28 PM
I don't see how people could still be giving it crap. I mean, I do have some honest criticisms of it, but it's really very nice looking and I can't wait to see it in motion without the horrible compression of youtube.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 14, 2012, 07:23:17 PM
It's the Internet. People are generally douchebags on the Internet. No surprises there.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 14, 2012, 07:26:35 PM
On the other hand, the Youtube comments on this video seem to be alright. I can't see any blatant trolling or douchebaggery.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 14, 2012, 07:29:19 PM
Its not the cost of the graphics, its more 'amgyouhavediffierntgraphicsyuhavedifferentgraphicsitsnotphotorealisticorshinyenoughwaaaaa'.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 14, 2012, 07:32:03 PM
I've been deleting the bad comments, though there have only been about 4.  Broken window syndrome, you know.  The good far outweigh the bad, though.  Mostly it's been a matter of "you need a million animation frames for everything."
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 14, 2012, 07:47:44 PM
What I don't understand is how they can judge it without knowing how it actually feels. I mean I can throw critique all day at things that I haven't played, and there are certain things that you can judge without having played a game. Animation quality and graphical fidelity are things that you can judge, but not in any meaningful way without playing the game. Case in point, I played a beautiful game (Fallout 3) and hated it because of how delightfully beautiful the environment looks. Why? Because the environment hides the enemies! I can't tell you whether all is good based on looking at the game, but it seems a far bet easier to actually tell what's going on because of the more deliberate combat and slower pace. I remember enemies blending into backgrounds in Valley 1. I've probably taken thousands of damage just because I didn't see something for the split second it charged me while camouflaged.
um
um

I'll admit I've deleted like 3 drafts of the same post because I feel like they're mean. If I'm being mean, just disregard me as an idiot. I don't want to be one of those people making stupid comments, and I'm really not trying to be.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 14, 2012, 07:49:28 PM
I've been deleting the bad comments, though there have only been about 4.  Broken window syndrome, you know.  The good far outweigh the bad, though.  Mostly it's been a matter of "you need a million animation frames for everything."
Oh, I see.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Professor Paul1290 on December 14, 2012, 07:49:45 PM
some folks expect multimillion dollar graphics from every game they see, apparently.

I think it looks fine for what it is too, but I don't think that's so much the problem as it is that there are a LOT of sidescrollers made on similar budgets to that just look better.

The thing is, most sidescroller environments with similar levels of detail are made by hand and can make a lot more assumptions about where everything is going to be. Because of that, when you have this level of detail, gamers expect everything to fit together to a degree that is hard to do if the levels are random or semi-random. Most other side-scrollers that use some form of procedural generation go with a relatively low level of detail to avoid this.

The thing is, by having this much detail in the environment along with procedurally generated levels you're going to get criticism for it, no matter how good the individual art assets look. You're not going to have that many people saying it looks good because you're up against a genre that traditionally enjoys relatively high quality art in much more static and "art friendly" conditions.
It's not fair, but that's the way it is.  :(


Goddamn, it just occurred to me how awfully negative this is for a come-back post.

Regardless, on a lighter note I really REALLY want to play this game.  :D
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 14, 2012, 07:51:17 PM
Don't sweat it, folks.  At any rate, no game escapes scathing criticism from a wide variety of people for a wide variety of reasons.  If it wasn't this, it would be something else.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 14, 2012, 08:20:54 PM
Yeah that was my problem too, I felt really mean and negative =(

Well, all criticism does is make you better.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 14, 2012, 08:48:15 PM
Thanks, Teal -- I have to say, I really needed that after Youtube commenters and just the mention of the RPS comments (which I've not read).  The art isn't mine this time, and I think it's beautiful too -- but some folks expect multimillion dollar graphics from every game they see, apparently.

Yep, and the sad thing is, there's absolutely squat you can do about it, in a general sense.

I know a few people like this.... I'll suggest to them the occaisional indie game (doesnt matter exactly what) that they might like based on their tastes, but "Why would I play that?  It looks like the SUPER NINTENDO or something!", and then I have to resist the urge to throw a chair at them.   Oh, but they'll play something that's on the level of, say, Miner Wars, since that game looks kinda like it's made of pure money.   

And some people will always, always, ALWAYS hate 2D games just because they're 2D.... that's another one that seems overly common.   It could be bloody BEAUTIFUL, but no..... it's 2D!  It's evil and stupid!  Blargh!

So freaking stupid, but..... always going to be there.   Very annoying.   PARTICULARLY on Youtube.   Dont let THOSE jerks get to you.   I swear, there are guys who just sit around, clicking random Youtube videos JUST to leave jerky, trollish comments.  Ugh.   I only put up with Youtube because the people I follow all happen to only post vids on there.   But I cant even post a basic gameplay vid of something on MY channel, with it's like, what, 250 subscribers if that, without fairly often getting some jerk coming in and making asshatty comments.  Bloody amazing, really.  In a pathetic sort of way.   And then Youtube also crashes alot.   I could probably rant about THAT for three pages.



Though, hopefully some of the derpy comments will die down once more of the graphics stuff is both finished and implemented.   *I* think it looks freaking great, to be honest.  Here I'd wondered if the "feel" of it, or the atmosphere of it, would be gone with this new one, but, that hasnt been the case.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 14, 2012, 10:25:21 PM
Miner Wars could be made of money, after all its gone through, almost. Money and confusion for several years.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 14, 2012, 10:27:44 PM
Wait.
What was even the nature of the stupid comments? Were they trashing the game just because it was 2d?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 14, 2012, 10:46:23 PM
Wait.
What was even the nature of the stupid comments? Were they trashing the game just because it was 2d?


People don't bother to even play the game, don't bother to watch the video of the differences in the new game and the old game, (is a ten month old game really old?) Anyway they talk trash, it looks..., it looks like it plays..., I don't think there is anyway...

Which is all garbage and trolling in my opinion. I already have AV1 and am going to be buying AV2 because i want to support Chris and company for all the hard work they have put into this and all the garbage that i wish wasn't happening. Anyway, that is my two cents!  Anyone else want to be a fan and stand up to these trollers by putting out some positive, positive feedback? I know its cool on the forums, but we're almost family here, so its sorta like preaching to the choir, but places like RPS and YouTube are public and the best places we can defend what we feel is a very well made game that Chris and company have put a TON of hours of work into.  :)

Thanks for listening to me rant, it just really really bugs me what these jerko's are saying after all the effort and hard work Arcen has put into it. 

-T

Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 14, 2012, 10:50:05 PM
Well, to be fair, you won't be buying Valley 2, because you'll already own it. ;)
That's my favorite part of the deal. Getting a second game for free that's gonna be all awesome and retro and somehow an action turn based tactical strategy game. I never did play Actraiser.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Professor Paul1290 on December 14, 2012, 11:03:45 PM
And some people will always, always, ALWAYS hate 2D games just because they're 2D.... that's another one that seems overly common.   It could be bloody BEAUTIFUL, but no..... it's 2D!  It's evil and stupid!  Blargh!

Well that's not really the problem a lot of people have. People aren't asking for expensive graphics, people are asking for something else.

The problem people have is that AVWW 2 does not look as good as other indie 2D platformers of similar budget.

Like I said earlier, sidescrollers are a genre that has traditionally enjoyed relatively high-quality artwork in presented in a very "art friendly" way. Most games that have sprites of similar size and detail tend to have static environments where everything can be put together very cohesively by hand.
This is not the case with AVWW 2, and as such it will never look as good no matter how good the individual art assets are.

Other games that have some form of random or semi-random generation avoid the problem by using lower resolution sprites and less detail.

It's not uncommon for a genre to grow up with "something" so that anyone playing those games expects that "something". If you make a game in that genre that for any reason can't as easily have that "something" then you're going to have an uphill fight ahead of you.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 14, 2012, 11:19:22 PM
Well, to be fair, you won't be buying Valley 2, because you'll already own it. ;)
That's my favorite part of the deal. Getting a second game for free that's gonna be all awesome and retro and somehow an action turn based tactical strategy game. I never did play Actraiser.

I do already 'own' AV1, but WILL be buying AV2, with another copy of 1, just to support Arcen. That is what i mean, and yes, it is nice to get it free, and yes that is cool. But Chris and company have put a TON of hours of work into AV1 and AV2, and I am just wanting to say thank you, in my way, by buying 'another' copy, for them doing that.
-T
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 14, 2012, 11:42:54 PM
And some people will always, always, ALWAYS hate 2D games just because they're 2D.... that's another one that seems overly common.   It could be bloody BEAUTIFUL, but no..... it's 2D!  It's evil and stupid!  Blargh!

Well that's not really the problem a lot of people have. People aren't asking for expensive graphics, people are asking for something else.

The problem people have is that AVWW 2 does not look as good as other indie 2D platformers of similar budget.

Like I said earlier, sidescrollers are a genre that has traditionally enjoyed relatively high-quality artwork in presented in a very "art friendly" way. Most games that have sprites of similar size and detail tend to have static environments where everything can be put together very cohesively by hand.
This is not the case with AVWW 2, and as such it will never look as good no matter how good the individual art assets are.

Other games that have some form of random or semi-random generation avoid the problem by using lower resolution sprites and less detail.


Professor,
                       forgive me if i sound a little upset, it is not personal, but i take strong issue with you saying 'other indie games of this similar size and detail... Where, pray tell please, do you get this understanding of 'similar size and detail...'?  I am not a developer, but certainly though there are some on these forums who are, but even so, by what general and generic standard do all other indie games of similar ilk suddenly become superior based on 'better' art or 'animations'? Several indie titles come immediately to my mind, and though interesting i would hardly call them superior, but rather inferior in my mind... such as 'Vessel', and 'Limbo'... or 'Bastion' or 'Braid'.  The 'Dead Pixels' or 'Home' or 'Defenders Quest' or 'Resonance' or 'Gemini Rue' or 'Hotline Miami' or 'Triple Town' or 'Sine Mora', "Castle Crashers' and 'Don't Starve' and 'Anna' and 'Thomas Was Alone' which all strike me as indie games, and certainly-certainly interesting and perhaps even fun to play. But superior on the same budget? I hardly think so, and also i have no idea of what their budgets to produce these other  games were. Much less am  i in a position to certify them as 'better' due to some internally defined, though certainly unmentioned and uncorroborated measurement of quantity or quality per pixel. You certainly are entitled to your opinion, but expressing it as if it were market knowledge that everyone is aware of is rather distasteful at best and misleading and incorrect at worst.

If you can substantiate your statements with something approaching some 'norm' standard that everyone is aware of and agrees applies to the games you haven't mentioned and their comparison to AV2 then i would certainly be willing to digress my remarks, but without such substantiation, then i must assume that you are expressing an opinion in light of your own biases and opinions without balancing them against some agreed on standard that everyone agrees with.

-Teal

p.s.  In addition, this is the 'very first day' that any major gameplay art has been release, in 'alpha' and certainly not complete, so how can anyone, including you have the temerity to compare it to finished games without seeing any of the changes that will be coming? Frankly I am disgusted and if i were a developer i would want to throw my hands up and walk away. Everybody in the world passes out opinions as if they were God spoken gospel, which frankly strikes me as rather Prima Donna-ish behaviour.

There I am done. I wanted to be nice and polite about all this, but is gets rather difficult with trolls and 'experts' throwing this and that around only 'hours' after alpha has released.


Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Echo35 on December 14, 2012, 11:54:25 PM
I think it looks fine for what it is too, but I don't think that's so much the problem as it is that there are a LOT of sidescrollers made on similar budgets to that just look better.
(http://therealmcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Yeah-well-you-know-thats-just-like-your-opinion-man.jpg)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 14, 2012, 11:59:07 PM
I think it looks fine for what it is too, but I don't think that's so much the problem as it is that there are a LOT of sidescrollers made on similar budgets to that just look better.
(http://therealmcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Yeah-well-you-know-thats-just-like-your-opinion-man.jpg)


I like this one!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Oralordos on December 15, 2012, 12:09:42 AM
I think it looks fine for what it is too, but I don't think that's so much the problem as it is that there are a LOT of sidescrollers made on similar budgets to that just look better.
(http://therealmcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Yeah-well-you-know-thats-just-like-your-opinion-man.jpg)


I like this one!

Me too!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Brise Bonbons on December 15, 2012, 12:14:24 AM
I left a few comments over on RPS trying to correct some misunderstandings I found there, but to be frank I had to agree with one person that the art still looks rough in places (now that I go back and look, I worded that post horribly. Oh dear, I'll edit that). In doing so I also mentioned that the art is not necessarily final, and that I was under the impression this version still had placeholder art in places.

To be clear, my feeling is that the art looks solid as a whole, but there are a few assets that do not appear to be polished to the same level of the work as a whole, and while watching someone else play the game they do stand out a bit as such. I'm thinking of this one shack/house and a specific character run cycle which looks a bit wonky because the legs don't articulate at the knees quite right.

I don't want to analyze it too much more than that until I get my hands on the game in whatever state I finally play it. But I feel that these impressions are best raised now while there is still a chance to correct any issues that Arcen and Heavy Cat agree can be changed with minimal work.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: chemical_art on December 15, 2012, 01:02:28 AM
Just to clarify, you cannot in any way judge the footage on its graphics. The alpha wasn't really interested in that, so many placeholders / other "pre beta art" things are used, so roughness is the default, not the exception.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 15, 2012, 02:53:31 AM
Just to clarify, you cannot in any way judge the footage on its graphics. The alpha wasn't really interested in that, so many placeholders / other "pre beta art" things are used, so roughness is the default, not the exception.


Indeed not, but the entire problem with it is:  People will do so ANYWAY.

To be honest, I kinda think the video shouldnt have been made yet.    Heck, even I think the placeholder art or "rough" bits are very obvious in the game right now, and I'm not always exactly the most observant person when it comes to art, due to the fact that I tend not to give a crap.   So others who DO care about art are going to notice, and they're going to complain.  And pointing out "Hey, this is alpha footage, keep that in mind" seems to only rarely have any real effect, because people can be dolts that way.

And despite the fact that the final product is likely to be the sort of graphics that more people really will agree with, many who see the rough alpha footage may decide then and there that "it sucks", and never take another look at it.   Which would be a damn shame.


Regardless though, I think the game's graphics are going in the right direction so far.   Hard to say exactly what the final version will look like, but it's looking good so far.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Coppermantis on December 15, 2012, 03:10:42 AM
Just to clarify, you cannot in any way judge the footage on its graphics. The alpha wasn't really interested in that, so many placeholders / other "pre beta art" things are used, so roughness is the default, not the exception.


Indeed not, but the entire problem with it is:  People will do so ANYWAY.

To be honest, I kinda think the video shouldnt have been made yet.    Heck, even I think the placeholder art or "rough" bits are very obvious in the game right now, and I'm not always exactly the most observant person when it comes to art, due to the fact that I tend not to give a crap.   So others who DO care about art are going to notice, and they're going to complain.  And pointing out "Hey, this is alpha footage, keep that in mind" seems to only rarely have any real effect, because people can be dolts that way.

And despite the fact that the final product is likely to be the sort of graphics that more people really will agree with, many who see the rough alpha footage may decide then and there that "it sucks", and never take another look at it.   Which would be a damn shame.


Regardless though, I think the game's graphics are going in the right direction so far.   Hard to say exactly what the final version will look like, but it's looking good so far.

This is the unfortunate truth. I saw some of the comments of AVWW1's Alpha video (back when it was top-down) and a lot of people were bashing how horrible it looked. No one ever seems to realize that Alphas almost always are pretty poor looking compared to final products.

Heck, take a look at Starcraft II's early days (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvLsOF-c0_0). That was a HIDEOUS game, but now it looks just fine and is one of the most popular games in the world.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 15, 2012, 03:51:49 AM

This is the unfortunate truth. I saw some of the comments of AVWW1's Alpha video (back when it was top-down) and a lot of people were bashing how horrible it looked. No one ever seems to realize that Alphas almost always are pretty poor looking compared to final products.

Heck, take a look at Starcraft II's early days (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvLsOF-c0_0). That was a HIDEOUS game, but now it looks just fine and is one of the most popular games in the world.


......well, there was some stuff I was going to say here in this topic, but I saw the link there, had a look, and it killed my train of thought by punting it off a cliff and then dropping nukes on it.   You're right, that early build of SC2 is ugly as heck.   Just...... blegh.   It's SO bad it actually becomes hard to believe.   Just.... amazing.

On a more positive note, so far it looks like most of the comments on the video for AVWW 2 are actually pretty positive.   Not a bad video for showing basic concepts of the game except for the bit where OH GOD FIREBALL NOISE EXPLOSION BOOM and cant hear anything other than that while that's going on, heh.   
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 15, 2012, 04:10:33 AM
I like the look of the graphics alot, and when i went left instead of right when i left the Evil dudes castle i had to jump over these like mean light pillar thingees and then i got to safety, down a slope to a valley that was Absolutely Beautiful! I wish i could post a pic, but go take a look, go left and jump over the light dudes and it is really really cool! just how the drawings have this really nice style to them, and how everything just fits together, and the new characters are very well done and i like the new animations and there are more animations than before in the old game and it really makes the new game look good! :)

Anyway,  :)  I am really, really liking this alot. I am currently dying alot too, haha, but that is totally ok, i am really having a blast with this new game.  :)

Sign me up for the expansion! 

-T

 
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Lancefighter on December 15, 2012, 04:25:49 AM
you end up walking through the 'left' area if you enter the castle from the worldmap instead of dying.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: khadgar on December 15, 2012, 05:49:56 AM
Very close to beating the boss for the first time on Lance's server, but I'm tired. I'm going to log on tomorrow to find him all deaded up!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 15, 2012, 08:26:25 AM
The problem people have is that AVWW 2 does not look as good as other indie 2D platformers of similar budget.
Well, that's a rather daft statement from them then. They have absolutely no idea about the budgets behind the games.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 15, 2012, 08:32:29 AM
People tend to assume infinite time, budget, and so forth.  And to hold infinitely-generated games of any sort to a similar standard as something that is hand-crafted all the way through is also rather silly.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter what some random internet commenters might say, despite however much it bugs me.  People have this attitude that "if I hate it, I must speak up."  Which is something you don't see as much in music.  How much of the internet thinks that... I don't know... Celine Dion or Josh Groban or Chris Cornell are utterly horrible?  A goodly number of people for each, I'd wager (though I'd also wager on relative percentages there, heh).  The thing is, each of those artists has a specific audience and cater well to them, and outside of that haters gonna hate.

What really matters for this game is "when the rubber hits the road."  Aka, what impact do the new graphics and mechanics, and the bundling of the two games, have on people who are actually interested in buying it in the first place.  Universal love would be nice, but it's not something anyone gets.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Nanashi on December 15, 2012, 08:33:48 AM
I'm abstaining from commenting on the artwork until the release, but I will say that in my experience, the people who complain the most about artwork don't tend to actually do art themselves and as a result have very little appreciation for it. The internet generation tends to be extremely judgmental and see things in matters of black and white - I blame a culture of entitlement which has promoted the idea of the self as the ultimate judge of absolutes.

Would that they'd judge themselves half as fanatically that they judge others. People used to write in order to compose their thoughts, but these days, it's possible to comment without thinking much in the same way that people often speak without doing so - look at the communal mess that is Twitter.

edit: In response to Chris, the issue isn't so much that "haters hate" but that "haters feel that their opinions are VERY IMPORTANT and everyone needs to know about them". It's easier to crap on everything to devalue it rather than work on improving oneself because godforbid - that might actually take effort.  Few people accept personal responsibility on the internet.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 15, 2012, 08:38:55 AM
Yep.  I'm not claiming that this is the Best Art Evar, either, by the way.  I think it's really attractive and suits the game well, though, and that's all I'm really looking for.  It fit within our budget (mostly), is worlds better than anything else we've ever been able to do before, and really helps convey the sense of place a lot better than anything we've done in the past with AVWW1.  Winning "Best In Show" for visuals was never on my to-do list.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 15, 2012, 08:48:17 AM
It's also quite noticable in the console generation. The majority judge games by their flashiness and if something doesn't look like Crysis 3, it obviously must be garbage. Gameplay is sort of secondary and not something they look very much at. It's part of the "instant gratification" thing.

Funnily enough, I don't think I have a single high graphic game at home at present. Well, okay, Giana Sisters have to count, because it looks absolutely gorgeous, but other than that, the games I play at the moment are Total Annihilation, Masters of Orion 2 and Dwarf Fortress. Not exactly graphical powerhouses, but hard to beat gameplay :D
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 15, 2012, 08:56:33 AM
It's also quite noticable in the console generation. The majority judge games by their flashiness and if something doesn't look like Crysis 3, it obviously must be garbage. Gameplay is sort of secondary and not something they look very much at. It's part of the "instant gratification" thing.

Funnily enough, I don't think I have a single high graphic game at home at present. Well, okay, Giana Sisters have to count, because it looks absolutely gorgeous, but other than that, the games I play at the moment are Total Annihilation, Masters of Orion 2 and Dwarf Fortress. Not exactly graphical powerhouses, but hard to beat gameplay :D

Yeah, that's pretty much my thoughts as well.

I remember a time when GAMEPLAY was king, and was the absolute focus of most game development in every genre.  Many of the greatest games of all time owe their existence to that sort of design idea.

Today though?  No.   Graphics and story are at the top of the list, always.   Games..... at least, the big budget ones..... are becoming more like freaking MOVIES than actual games.   Look at something like the linear corridor that is Final Fantasy 13, and compare it to something like FF4 or 6, or even the very first in the series.   Those games were good, but 13 is horrid.   Is part of why I'm mostly a PC gamer now instead of a console gamer.  I dont like movies to begin with, and if I want story, I'll read a book (and I read alot of books).  What I want is an actual GAME.

And if it's not one of those super-high end blockbuster movie-ish experiences, alot of console gamers tend to either ignore it, or bash it, and certainly never TRY it.   Kinda sad, really. 
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 15, 2012, 08:56:50 AM
By the by.

If you've been wondering about the second round of alpha testers, and figured you were not in that batch last night, I just wanted to note that we did not actually send out a second batch last night.  The reason was that we simply didn't have our next build ready for the next group, because we managed to waste a lot of time yesterday trying to get Unity 4 (and thus Linux support) working satisfactorily.  It worked great except for some intense slowness on loading images on some machines, so we had to go back to 3.3 for now, sigh.  Wasted 18 man-hours on that yesterday.

But anyway, the next batch of 20ish alpha testers should get their emails around noon today.  I believe there were 23 people in the first batch.

(sorry for the giant font at the top there, but I needed to catch people's attention if they were skimming, since this was important info in a big thread).
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Professor Paul1290 on December 15, 2012, 08:58:25 AM
                       forgive me if i sound a little upset, it is not personal, but i take strong issue with you saying 'other indie games of this similar size and detail... Where, pray tell please, do you get this understanding of 'similar size and detail...'?  I am not a developer, but certainly though there are some on these forums who are, but even so, by what general and generic standard do all other indie games of similar ilk suddenly become superior based on 'better' art or 'animations'?

Let me clarify something as I probably didn't connect this with my previous post well enough to provide context.
This is not about me presenting my own opinion, it was me presenting what I believe the opinion of others to be. (My opinion of other people's opinion? Is there a word for that?)

In my personal opinion, AVWW 2 looks fine the way it is. I like the way it looks.

What I'm stating is why other people think the way they do, regardless of whether or not it's fair or rational.


Several indie titles come immediately to my mind, and though interesting i would hardly call them superior, but rather inferior in my mind... such as 'Vessel', and 'Limbo'... or 'Bastion' or 'Braid'.  The 'Dead Pixels' or 'Home' or 'Defenders Quest' or 'Resonance' or 'Gemini Rue' or 'Hotline Miami' or 'Triple Town' or 'Sine Mora', "Castle Crashers' and 'Don't Starve' and 'Anna' and 'Thomas Was Alone' which all strike me as indie games, and certainly-certainly interesting and perhaps even fun to play. But superior on the same budget? I hardly think so, and also i have no idea of what their budgets to produce these other  games were. Much less am  i in a position to certify them as 'better' due to some internally defined, though certainly unmentioned and uncorroborated measurement of quantity or quality per pixel.

The problem is, as far as most gamers are concerned, these games and AVWW 2 are of the same "class" and as such they expect similar quality visuals. As far as most of the gaming public is concerned, they are of similar budget.
That may not be true at all, but that's what a lot of people are going to believe, regardless of what's actually true.

Now there's lots of reasons why AVWW 2 looks the way it does, but by and large the gaming public does not care for these reasons and so they're always going to complain about the way it looks.

Is it rational or reasonable? Hardly, it's pretty unfair and silly.

I'm not saying that AVWW 2 looks terrible, I'm saying that there are reasons why you shouldn't expect a lot of gamers to like the visuals.


If you can substantiate your statements with something approaching some 'norm' standard that everyone is aware of and agrees applies to the games you haven't mentioned and their comparison to AV2 then i would certainly be willing to digress my remarks, but without such substantiation, then i must assume that you are expressing an opinion in light of your own biases and opinions without balancing them against some agreed on standard that everyone agrees with.

I wish I could but again, I wasn't stating my own opinion nor a very rational or informed opinion, but rather what I believe other people's opinions be.
(though looking back there was probably too much space between that and my previous post for this context to be clear)

Because of that I'm not trying to explain a "truth" or what is, I'm bringing in something rather irrational and ill informed into the discussion because it is (unfortunately) relevant to the discussion.
Now maybe my interpretation of other people's opinions is incorrect, I don't know. I'm trying to explain what I believe to be the beliefs of somebody else and that's always going to be messy.
(That and as I've probably demonstrated before, I can sometimes be really cynical about what other people think!)

I guess to provide context. I was attempting to provide a better explanation for people's disapproval of the graphics other than "people always expect million dollar budgets" or "people always hate 2D games".
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Oralordos on December 15, 2012, 01:33:55 PM
we managed to waste a lot of time yesterday trying to get Unity 4 (and thus Linux support) working satisfactorily.
If you ever decide to try that again, I would be willing to test the Linux versions and report any and all bugs that show up. ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 15, 2012, 01:39:58 PM
Heh, we didn't even get that far. The update was causing issues on Windows machines. Namely mine and Keith's. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 15, 2012, 01:45:02 PM
Heh, we didn't even get that far. The update was causing issues on Windows machines. Namely mine and Keith's. :)
That's never a good thing :D
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 15, 2012, 02:27:05 PM
People who complain about those 2d sprite-based graphics and stuff just don't have an appreciation for stylized art. Show them They Bleed Pixels, or Terraria, or best yet, Incredipede. They won't show any appreciation or give any care about it whatsoever.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Lancefighter on December 15, 2012, 03:18:57 PM
So I no longer have any clue whats happening on my own server (i had other stuff happening all yesterday)

apparently we already blew up those two core shield generator things.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Gemzo on December 15, 2012, 04:13:32 PM
Actually we went and beat the overlord (for realz), then proceeded to find out he is actually immortal, just now invisible. Also you can still lose after winning because of this. :(
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Lancefighter on December 15, 2012, 04:16:23 PM
Second server is up - Huge world with slightly increased difficulty settings on both accounts.
Fun facts - the last game included over a thousand unique regions, (1303). On turn 105, the final boss was permanently killed. On turn 111, we lost the game.

Silly question - is it possible to reduce the amount of 'wasted space' the avww server takes up? atm i get a small box in the middle with useful info, then giant vast amounts of black space.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 15, 2012, 04:35:24 PM
I can't beat lieutenants. =/
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Coppermantis on December 15, 2012, 05:49:55 PM
I can't beat lieutenants. =/

I can only beat them with excessive cheese. Hanging just out of range and abusing their unwillingness to get close. I've beaten two of them like that so far.

I'm only level 1 though.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 15, 2012, 05:55:40 PM
Spoilers: My problem is that everything in the game kills you very quickly. I got to a point where I had to escape a place. I died in probably 3 shots on adept trying to run because of the pressure. This was after fighting a big bad guy to get there with excessive cheese and shooting through traps because I was confident that his spells (which fired six projectiles in every direction) would prove to be hard to avoid and would do more than a heart of damage to my 5 hearts. Yeah, that was a ragequit. Just for laughs, I set it on Master Hero. Didn't seem to do anything to the enemy damage. It just makes all the enemies shoot around as fast as big bad guys do.
I don't know. I guess the game just got way, way harder. It's subject to tweaks, for sure, but until then if I want to test anything later game, I'll have to just set it to Featherweight or play multiplayer (I don't know how multiplayer scales, if it does at all). I mean, I'm the guy who was one level below the highest difficulty on Valley 1, and I thought that was trivial. It might just be that I'm not used to what's going on or something. I'm certainly not bad at games, though. The thing is, if it takes 40 hits to kill something, it shouldn't take 3 hits to kill me. Not unless I'm doing something very, very wrong. Maybe I missed an energy tank in Crateria?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Coppermantis on December 15, 2012, 05:59:51 PM
The only things that I find do too much damage (playing on the middle difficulty settings across the board) are bats. They're hard to hit and do almost one heart of damage per hit. If you can keep one at bay that's fine, but the problem is when they attack at an angle that you can't quite hit (too high or too low) and close the gap, doing way too much for one bat.

The landsquid-things that shoot the boomerang blue shots are near impossible for me, a stonebinder, to deal with without using my ammo weapon.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 15, 2012, 06:08:43 PM
The boomerang shots I deal with as an illuminist, I can kill them. But, otherwise, that 0.2 damage that they do is positively brutal.
The thing is, I dunno, it's not like mistakes just cripple you or anything. I feel like mistakes almost kill me outright. Regular enemies, it's not too big a deal. Against a boss though, I take like 1.7 damage from a single hit of its rapidfire attacks that fill the room. What do you even do.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Gemzo on December 15, 2012, 06:17:30 PM
The henchmen really depend on which class I'm using. If I have an amazingly strong ammo spell, nuking them can end the fight quickly. Otherwise I farm HP in the previous room and then try fighting him. If it goes badly I retreat and farm HP some more...Repeat until I win (or ragequit but that hasn't happened with henchmen yet). They seem to change which spell they continuously use each time, and some are easier than others for sure.

As for bats, they definitely are one of the most difficult enemies. They need to be easier to spot. Them being difficult to hit is kind of "their thing" but it shouldn't be to the point that bats are so ridiculously feared as they are now. Maybe have them stop moving for a brief moment when they aggro you? That way, you have time to spot them. If your light radius isn't high enough, they might not be visible still, but whatever.

The landquid are probably the most OP enemy in the game, though. Their spell caliber is quite high combined with them being, as I put it in AVWW1, "insane spam kings." On difficulties past normal, anyway. If your spell caliber is high enough to win out the spam war, they're manageable. But if not, flee or use ammo.

As for things being too lethal in general... You really do have to be quite careful until you get stronger. HP perks are really good, and you should seek them out. But, despite how easily you die that early on, there is no death penalty until lategame besides "GO TO YOUR ROOM YOUNG MAN/WOMAN, also retry the whole level."
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 15, 2012, 06:24:50 PM
I do appreciate that, but I just haven't had the ability to even get HP perks. I always get stuck fighting henchies and dying and with my 5 hearts, I really really need more to actually make any headway.
One issue I've had as well is figuring out how to actually go any further purification. I tried to grab a level up tower again, but I couldn't actually purify my way there. The game's just stopped giving me purify-able flashing tiles like it was while 3 spaces away. Although I get the sense that I'll have to fight another henchman to actually get the level, at least that's a guaranteed "you might be able to handle more stuff" thing.
Also. We need to make that thread where we can have spoiler discussions.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Nanashi on December 15, 2012, 06:25:43 PM
I just finished exams, so I'm waiting for AVWW to go Beta. It's not a huge concern, but after reading some of this, I'm wondering if enemies still have the problem of spamming the same attack nonstop - I always thought it'd be nice if enemies in AVWW had more than 1 attack pattern, or if they paused between waves of shooting to offer a reprieve (which is traditional in most platformers) - the alpha video seemed like they still spam incessantly though. Still, alpha is alpha.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Gemzo on December 15, 2012, 06:28:42 PM
You can get more options for perks from caves, and every odd-numbered perk level has an HP boost perk. So if you didn't start with it, you could go find the lv1 HP perk. Besides that though, the level up towers do indeed seem to guarantee a henchman fight.

Also the enemies spamming the same projectile/attack over and over is indeed annoying. The enemies really do have knowledge of the secrets of spam-fu, and it could use a lot of work.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 15, 2012, 06:32:03 PM
...oh.

See, that's all I needed. I didn't know caves gave anything more than a highway across the world. In the game's defense, I didn't check.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Lancefighter on December 15, 2012, 06:33:25 PM
Well, there recently was a nice thing added that will tell you if a chunk you are entering is useless, through a popup screen that tells you useful things.

I think a tutorial screen in the q menu or something could list what 'useful' tiles are?
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Nanashi on December 15, 2012, 06:37:02 PM
You can get more options for perks from caves, and every odd-numbered perk level has an HP boost perk. So if you didn't start with it, you could go find the lv1 HP perk. Besides that though, the level up towers do indeed seem to guarantee a henchman fight.

Also the enemies spamming the same projectile/attack over and over is indeed annoying. The enemies really do have knowledge of the secrets of spam-fu, and it could use a lot of work.

Aw :( I'm sad to hear that. Even with a lower volume, I think it'd be pretty annoying to hear enemies going BWANG BWANG BWANG BWANG BWANG nonstop and I'd probably get a migraine or turn the sound effects off. I'm pretty sure Arcen will handle it though - Skelebots in AVWW1 had delays between attacks and so did those rock slide spamming floating asterisk things.

Anyway, why doesn't someone start a feedback thread? Would be better than tacking to the arse-end of this thread.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 15, 2012, 06:44:39 PM
The sad part is like, I have this massive line of caves that I found that's like 15 or 18 tiles of cave. I could be getting so many perks! Jeez.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 15, 2012, 07:52:58 PM
I can't beat lieutenants. =/

I can only beat them with excessive cheese. Hanging just out of range and abusing their unwillingness to get close. I've beaten two of them like that so far.

I'm only level 1 though.

This has been my biggest complaint as well, is these fights.     They just end up not actually being a "fight" at all, one way or another.

The only way to kill these guys is to cheese them or take advantage of AI bugs usually.   The ONLY other thing I've found that works is using that fire spellset.... the one with Campfire.... and when the fight starts, leaping right at them, and then firing off the ammo spell so the entire thing hits them.   Repeat a second time, and they're dead.  No matter what though you're GOING to take some hits.

Though that, again, is not really much of a fight either.

Their attack patterns need re-doing, honestly.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Coppermantis on December 15, 2012, 07:58:37 PM
Also, is there any real difference between Stonebinder and Technozoologist's first two spells? Both have the exact same description with different names and animations.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 15, 2012, 08:29:22 PM
I can't beat lieutenants. =/

I can only beat them with excessive cheese. Hanging just out of range and abusing their unwillingness to get close. I've beaten two of them like that so far.

I'm only level 1 though.

This has been my biggest complaint as well, is these fights.     They just end up not actually being a "fight" at all, one way or another.

The only way to kill these guys is to cheese them or take advantage of AI bugs usually.   The ONLY other thing I've found that works is using that fire spellset.... the one with Campfire.... and when the fight starts, leaping right at them, and then firing off the ammo spell so the entire thing hits them.   Repeat a second time, and they're dead.  No matter what though you're GOING to take some hits.

Though that, again, is not really much of a fight either.

Their attack patterns need re-doing, honestly.

Their attack patterns are VERY alpha right now. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 15, 2012, 08:40:47 PM


Their attack patterns are VERY alpha right now. :)

Yes, I'd rather figured as much, heh.   Those guys just LOOK unfinished.


The basic enemies, at least, seem mostly worked out, for what ones are currently active.

Though I take back my statement that those lumpy fireball guys are the most annoying enemy.... no, the Goddamn Bats of the game are..... the goddamn BATS.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 15, 2012, 09:11:15 PM
Yeah I was adventuring in a cave and got mauled by bats. It partly had to do with not getting any health drops whatsoever for a long time, getting slightly lazy and taking two hits for a third of my total health, and... enemies inexplicably doing more damage once I got a health upgrade somehow.
Today hasn't been a good day. It's been a very off day for me. So, maybe that's impacting my ability to play this game. It's definitely an extremely hard game. No other game you guys have made even compares. I get murdered left and right on Adept.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 15, 2012, 10:14:05 PM
Bats are easy enough with a homing shot.
The problem is I'm not terribly great with the rest of the wind set.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 15, 2012, 10:17:04 PM
I never have a problem HITTING bats. I have a problem seeing them in caves. I actually love that idea, it's just that they remove a fifth of my life, so a couple blind corners and most of my health is gone. Couple that with not getting any health drops for a while and suddenly 'man mode' was enabled... then I die probably one room away from the end of the cave and I get mad and have to take yet another break.
Bats are brutal man. Games are serious business.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: BobTheJanitor on December 15, 2012, 10:29:12 PM
Also, is there any real difference between Stonebinder and Technozoologist's first two spells? Both have the exact same description with different names and animations.

Until you mentioned it, I had no idea there were more than just 5 classes. I didn't even have Technozoologist as one of my options. I tried creating a few new worlds just now and found that there are several others. Huh.

Also, I join in the hatred for bats. If you don't have a homing shot they will end your day. I guess it would be possible to roll up a world where you couldn't select a class with a homing shot at all, and that would be seriously rough.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 15, 2012, 10:47:39 PM
There are ten types of classes.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 16, 2012, 12:59:09 AM
Also, is there any real difference between Stonebinder and Technozoologist's first two spells? Both have the exact same description with different names and animations.

Until you mentioned it, I had no idea there were more than just 5 classes. I didn't even have Technozoologist as one of my options. I tried creating a few new worlds just now and found that there are several others. Huh.

Also, I join in the hatred for bats. If you don't have a homing shot they will end your day. I guess it would be possible to roll up a world where you couldn't select a class with a homing shot at all, and that would be seriously rough.

Ehh, other classes do have things that work on bats, but it's somewhat dependant on playstyle.   I have trouble hitting the horrid things with some of the long-range attacks.

With Technozoologist I was mostly using Feather Trident to kill bats, which was very effective.   For Forgician, I actually mostly use Campfire against them.


They do need to be a bit more visible though, yes.

EDIT:  Also, not liking those damn crawler monkeys either.   Normally enemies like that are weak, but these guys are SO glitchy that the extreme bugginess can kill you.   Particularly when they sorta sink into the blocks they're walking on;  cant see them AT ALL half of the time.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 16, 2012, 02:15:16 AM
On another note.... the lighting and darkness.    IS there a non-irritating way to light up dark areas?   The first game had this issue too.... I absolutely HAAAAATED the lighting mechanics for the most part.   The thing that let me keep going with that game was that Flash of Light allowed me to just ignore the whole thing.    This one though..... quickly getting on my nerves, particularly since 95% of the game seems to be dark areas.     There's ONE light spell I'm aware of, in the.... er.... set that also has the exploding light ball, but that lighting spell is mostly worthless, since it's AoE is so very small.  Doesnt help whatsoever.  AND they blink out after 10 seconds.    Dark areas seem to mostly consist of a very simple pattern:  Take a few steps, spam anti-bat spell in random directions.   Take a few more steps, spam more anti-bat spell.  Repeat.... and repeat..... and repeat..... a bit too tedious for my limited patience.   If caverns werent so absurdly long, it wouldnt be AS bad, but..... the extreme abundance of bats and darkness would kinda ruin it regardless.

And then I tried one of those skelebot facilities, and...... argh.   ANOTHER rather dark area full of more bats, and that "get out quick!" bit sorta went over the line.  As best I can tell, it not only respawns all of the enemies, but then just KEEPS spawning more and more (almost all bats).   Considering the very careful nature of the combat in this game, I dunno, this bit just doesnt seem to work out very well.     The first game woulda made sense for it, but.... not this one.

At the very least, the bat spawning in all areas needs to be really dramatically dialed down.... I think they've actually become even more annoying than eagles at this point.     For the time being, I'm probably just going to take a break from it and wait for the next patch before continuing.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Coppermantis on December 16, 2012, 02:32:58 AM
Agreed, the lighting is basically preventing me from ever going into caves because I get instakilled almost by a bunch of crawlers and bats that I cannot see. Unless there's some light-producing method, I'm not going to bother going down there; I have no homing spell or anything to take out the stuff I can't see. All I ever do in caves is die.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 16, 2012, 02:52:21 AM
Agreed, the lighting is basically preventing me from ever going into caves because I get instakilled almost by a bunch of crawlers and bats that I cannot see. Unless there's some light-producing method, I'm not going to bother going down there; I have no homing spell or anything to take out the stuff I can't see. All I ever do in caves is die.


The crawlers are really only invisible because they're glitchy;   frankly, I crash into the damn things pretty often even in well lit areas because of this.   But the bats, yeah.  Though, the bats are still hyper-obnoxious even when they ARE clearly seen!

One thing that might help, try using Light Snake often in caverns.... this is a good spell just in general (though it doesnt hit very hard), but it's AMAZING in caverns, or even in any area with alot of vertical movement like that.   I probably wouldnt use that particular spell class all that much if it wasnt for that one.   It can even clear out some bats depending on the way the area generated.

....that is, if the game gave you that particular spell class, heh.    I think the different spells are, so far, very well done, but the RNG still has a chance to be a snot about which ones it gives access to in a particular game (I do like that whole system, though).
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 16, 2012, 07:55:08 AM
So, I'm considering adding a bit of light to the bats, sort of like you have, but much less intense. Would this help do you think?

And yes, at each tier, there are 10 classes.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 16, 2012, 08:06:33 AM
So, I'm considering adding a bit of light to the bats, sort of like you have, but much less intense. Would this help do you think?

And yes, at each tier, there are 10 classes.

I think it would, yes.  The bats really are oddly dangerous (for something that doesnt even shoot at you!) even when they're very visible and obvious, so something like that might make them muuuuuch less irritating without changing the cavern balance too much.

And since bats pretty much are THE thing that makes caverns & darkness in general so annoying, it might help quite a bit with that too.

Caves would be much less tedious if I dont have to spray every little corner with bullets every 3 steps just to check for bats, heh.
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Post by: Gemzo on December 16, 2012, 08:08:54 AM
That would help in the dark, but they're still hard to hit for many classes and do too much damage to earlygame characters. Also they would still be hard to see against certain backgrounds as well, but that's going to be true of a lot of things... So yeah, if they glowed a little bit that would make them less "ARGH BATS" most certainly. Definitely should at least try it.
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Post by: Neko_Baron on December 16, 2012, 08:12:19 AM
So, I'm considering adding a bit of light to the bats, sort of like you have, but much less intense. Would this help do you think?

And yes, at each tier, there are 10 classes.
I think you can solve the annoyance of bats more easily by tweaking their AI/damage, they're mostly a complete annoyance because they sit inside you and keep attacking, plus due to their nature to move in an exact line towards you means they don't line up at a good angle to be shot.

Personally I haven't been too bothered about the AI for now since its still being worked on, I would reckon you could try and make bats possible detect when your nearby > hover in close for a strike to give you time to attack > hit and run > hover again.

I will admit in SP I'm just spamming homing shots to kill em though.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 16, 2012, 08:17:59 AM
Well, homing shots are getting nerfed soon, probably in the next update.

That said, I think I know what I'm going to do with the bats, but, I don't want to say right now. Watch them in the next update, and let me konw what you think.
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Post by: Mánagarmr on December 16, 2012, 08:21:57 AM
You guys are such epic teases, you know that? :D
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 16, 2012, 08:48:56 AM
You guys are such epic teases, you know that? :D

I've learned from one of the best. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 16, 2012, 10:08:37 AM
So, I'm considering adding a bit of light to the bats, sort of like you have, but much less intense. Would this help do you think?

And yes, at each tier, there are 10 classes.
I think you can solve the annoyance of bats more easily by tweaking their AI/damage, they're mostly a complete annoyance because they sit inside you and keep attacking, plus due to their nature to move in an exact line towards you means they don't line up at a good angle to be shot.

Personally I haven't been too bothered about the AI for now since its still being worked on, I would reckon you could try and make bats possible detect when your nearby > hover in close for a strike to give you time to attack > hit and run > hover again.

I will admit in SP I'm just spamming homing shots to kill em though.


Personally I dont think their movement method should really be changed much;  if they tended to come at angles that made them easy to hit, they would become extremely trivial.    And selecting classes based on what you're up against seems a major part of the game anyway, and some classes are going to be pretty good at taking down bats.   I still find that (early on at least) stuff like Feather Trident is really good against them.   Either of the whip spells are good too.

But yeah, having them just sit on your head upon contact is annoying.  I dont think the bats in the first game do that?  I'm not sure, always tended to flatten them before they got close.    But it'd make more sense and be less irritating if they did something like, hit you, and then keep moving forward for a second or two after, and THEN turn around and try to hit again.


I'll be interested to see what change is made with these guys.  Particularly since they seem like an enemy type that's going to be pretty common throughout the game.
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Post by: tigersfan on December 16, 2012, 10:13:30 AM
Actually, the plan is to not have them be all that common. I only see bats planned for being in a couple different areas. We have 112 different enemies planned, and most of them will be specific to only one or two areas. For now, we really only have one enemy of each type in the game. But, we have lots of each type planned.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: BobTheJanitor on December 16, 2012, 10:21:09 AM
The problems I see with bats, besides the mentioned issues of them being hard to see and hard to find a good angle of attack on, is that their hitboxes seem to be incredibly tiny. Either that, or the hitbox for my spell bullets is smaller than they would appear from the graphics. I've had shots and whips go right through a bat's wing and do no damage to it. And yes, their attack pattern is brutal. Other games with small flying melee attackers will have them swoop at you and then away, giving you time to recover. Plus, most any other game of this type will give you some few seconds of invincibility frames after you're hit. Bats seem designed to take advantage of the quirks of this game by having an AI that just says 'beeline for player, stay there'.

If homing shots are getting a nerf (which they do need, I agree. My attack pattern has been 'hold clinging nettles' and that's about it) then I hope the bats are going to be a lot less evil. They should be the minor annoyance enemies who do piddly damage, not the enders of worlds.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 16, 2012, 11:00:27 AM
A simple change in their attack pattern would probably solve most of the issues. Possible even a nerf to their damage, after what I can read here.
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Post by: chemical_art on December 16, 2012, 11:31:59 AM
I agree a change to attack pattern would be best. Having them do swooping attacks where they go through the player then continue for a time before turning around to attack again would keep them annoying but not quite so deadly.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 16, 2012, 02:27:46 PM
Actually, the plan is to not have them be all that common. I only see bats planned for being in a couple different areas. We have 112 different enemies planned, and most of them will be specific to only one or two areas. For now, we really only have one enemy of each type in the game. But, we have lots of each type planned.
This... this might single-handedly make the game really awesome to me. Correct me if I'm wrong but, as it stands, it's pretty much 'most of the enemies are thrown in to each area' right? If the enemies had a bit more of a focused theme to them and they're all available to be used in the right places, then I could be like, wait, this is a perfect job for ______!
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Post by: tigersfan on December 16, 2012, 02:59:31 PM
Kinda like that yeah.

Basically, we have 9 different enemy classes:

Large Walking
Small Walking
Large Flying
Small Flying
Ceiling Clingers
Stationary Floor
Stationary Flying
Crazy/Leaping
Wall Crawlers

Each class in the game has only one enemy type right now, so, any time you would see, for example, a Small Flying enemy in any region, it's going to be a bat. When we get all the enemies put into the game, you will only see those bats in a few regions, and other types of Small Flying in other regions.

I don't know if all regions have a theme, but some certainly do.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 16, 2012, 04:05:02 PM
BTW, with the bats, what I ended up doing was dropping their health a lot. They are still really hard to hit, but, now it should only take one or two (at most) to actually kill them. Even with the weaker spells.
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Post by: Coppermantis on December 16, 2012, 04:11:10 PM
BTW, with the bats, what I ended up doing was dropping their health a lot. They are still really hard to hit, but, now it should only take one or two (at most) to actually kill them. Even with the weaker spells.

That sounds good. Is anything being done about the landsquids (or whatever the things are that shoot off all the blue boomerang shots)? It seems that there's no way to kill them without taking significant damage or using a special, unless one of the classes I haven't played uses it.
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Post by: BobTheJanitor on December 16, 2012, 04:18:30 PM
Is anything being done about the landsquids (or whatever the things are that shoot off all the blue boomerang shots)? It seems that there's no way to kill them without taking significant damage or using a special, unless one of the classes I haven't played uses it.

Use a homing shot or an illuminologist with light snake (or any other class with a snake spell, not sure if there are any?) and you can kill them with zero risk. That said, if those spells get a probably needed nerf, I'm not sure what you can do with them. Hope that they get nerfed also, I guess. They really do put out a lot of shots, especially with no double jump (at least at first) to dodge bullet hell attacks like in AVWW1.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: khadgar on December 16, 2012, 06:05:16 PM
Derp, having trouble with the Alpha, by the time I compose my thoughts about spell and class balance into a coherent statement, they are no longer valid because the game changed. :)

I just finished a written review of all spell types & all classes, but now I view 702 patch notes and it changes half the stuff... doh!
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Post by: Mick on December 16, 2012, 06:25:14 PM
Honestly I'm having trouble getting far enough to form much feedback because it seems a bit too difficult.

I've also run into situations where I can't advance in an because I can't jump high enough to get past.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 16, 2012, 06:33:22 PM
I've encountered that as well, but it was just because I backtracked through an entire cave after getting the prize. I just killed myself and kept the prize, so it didn't really matter.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 16, 2012, 07:00:20 PM
Is anything being done about the landsquids (or whatever the things are that shoot off all the blue boomerang shots)? It seems that there's no way to kill them without taking significant damage or using a special, unless one of the classes I haven't played uses it.

Use a homing shot or an illuminologist with light snake (or any other class with a snake spell, not sure if there are any?) and you can kill them with zero risk. That said, if those spells get a probably needed nerf, I'm not sure what you can do with them. Hope that they get nerfed also, I guess. They really do put out a lot of shots, especially with no double jump (at least at first) to dodge bullet hell attacks like in AVWW1.


I actually havent found those guys to be all that tough.    You just need to bring the right sort of spell to take them out, and they actually become quite easy.

Light Rocket can do the job, if you just keep throwing it into their bullets and advancing slowly.  Campfire seems to be their biggest weakness though, you can get through their pattern very fast and then hit them with whatever you like.   Havent been using Light Snake against them really, for the simple reason that it has zero ability to pierce enemy shots.


I dunno, I like enemies like that, that require you to stop and think about what the best tactics might be to get past them, or that might make you even go back and change to a class better suited for fighting them.   Seems to fit the game well.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: c4sc4 on December 16, 2012, 07:09:31 PM
Honestly I'm having trouble getting far enough to form much feedback because it seems a bit too difficult.

I've also run into situations where I can't advance in an because I can't jump high enough to get past.

There are slices that you can't get past on purpose without double or triple jump. It should be more obvious in the next patch when they add in the message letting you know.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 16, 2012, 07:39:26 PM
Honestly I'm having trouble getting far enough to form much feedback because it seems a bit too difficult.

I've also run into situations where I can't advance in an because I can't jump high enough to get past.

There are slices that you can't get past on purpose without double or triple jump. It should be more obvious in the net patch when they add in the message letting you know.

What he said ^^^.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: BobTheJanitor on December 16, 2012, 08:17:26 PM
Havent been using Light Snake against them really, for the simple reason that it has zero ability to pierce enemy shots.

Light snake travels like a screen and a half. You can stand way back out of range and just kill everything. Anything ground based will die to it, although it isn't high damage so you do have to be a little patient.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: x4000 on December 16, 2012, 08:57:34 PM
New version!  http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Valley_2_-_Pre-Beta_Release_Notes#Alpha_.702
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Coppermantis on December 16, 2012, 08:59:09 PM
Aquaurgist seems slightly OP right now, at least versus the current enemies. Sea slider blocks the projectiles, effectively nullifying the lumpy things and makes short work of everything else. The water sine allows me to kill things easily from behind a wall with no risk to myself. The other two spells seem fine, but with the first two I have not died in quite a while except for one henchman fight.

After reading the patch notes: Water Sine was BUFFED? I suppose that makes sense, as using it out in the open is tougher, but Sea Slider seems to cover any outdoor threats. In fact, Sea Slider covers almost all indoor threats as well. The fact that it stops enemy projectiles (at least the common ones that I see) means that it's essentially a shield as well. So I guess that's fine for WS to get a buff. Maybe SS should be nerfed a little so that it's not useful in so many situations.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Gemzo on December 16, 2012, 09:12:43 PM
Honestly it feels more like the other classes are weaker than aquaurgist stronger. Yes sea slider is good but the damage per second is fairly low. The caliber could be nerfed and it would be fine I think, since you can angle your shots to go around theirs with the sliding. As for water sine, I suggested it be buffed due to being fairly hard to use and since the slider doesn't do a whole lot of DPS either, making boss fights largely reliant on its then-overpowered ammo spell. Still, if the "par" is to be below this, then it should be nerfed. But I really think the other classes should just be brought up to this par; useful enough that you'd want to use it.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 16, 2012, 09:20:12 PM
Awesome, I can make it past the first chunk now, great!

;)

Have a few notes just from the first chunk though, but will actually get some playtime in to compile it all first.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Coppermantis on December 16, 2012, 09:25:31 PM
Honestly it feels more like the other classes are weaker than aquaurgist stronger. Yes sea slider is good but the damage per second is fairly low. The caliber could be nerfed and it would be fine I think, since you can angle your shots to go around theirs with the sliding. As for water sine, I suggested it be buffed due to being fairly hard to use and since the slider doesn't do a whole lot of DPS either, making boss fights largely reliant on its then-overpowered ammo spell. Still, if the "par" is to be below this, then it should be nerfed. But I really think the other classes should just be brought up to this par; useful enough that you'd want to use it.

Could be. It just seems that Aquaurgist is significantly stronger than the others that I've used so far.


Is it no longer possible to view the details of a region?

Nevermind, I didn't notice that it automatically shows :V
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 17, 2012, 12:29:03 AM
Quick bug that I immediately noticed, gonna mention it before I forget:    The whips dont work against projectiles whatsoever.   They just break.  Doesnt seem to matter what kind of enemy shot it is, it'll just smash the whip.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 17, 2012, 01:13:44 AM
......ok.   The skelebot research facilities.   Either there's some goofy trick to completing these, or they're a complete mess, or the level at which I should be attacking them is unclear..... I cant tell, really.

Regardless of the spell class I choose (at least at my current level), these seem unbeatable.   Enemies that spawn in them tend to be alot of the sort that takes a moment to fight and defeat (and takes many hits usually).   The constant monster spawn after hacking the computer, well.... there just seems to be absolutely no way to deal with it.    There's too many of them, and it likes to spawn things like those nasty balloons or the green blobs..... and it spawns them super-often.   I like the idea of having a Metroid-ish escape scene, but the mechanic just doesnt work when you HAVE to stop to fight things every 10 seconds.  Enemies like bats, lumpy guys, or even worse, those squid things, you cant really always just ignore them.... the game WILL have them show up in spots that mean they're completely in the way.   Topping all that off, it seems that if I take even one or two hits, that too is then forcing me to stop and fight things because that health is NECESSARY. 

Not to mention that these areas are WAY too long, and the heap of spawned things in the area that you die in will still be there, making for a very tedious fight before you can try again.     One way or another, I'd say shorten these, and have it so that enemies spawned by the escape effect will just vanish if you die..... you have to beat all of the normal ones again ANYWAY, so it wont affect the challenge level of the area.

And with their being so many THINGS in one room, and all of them other than bats and crawlers cause random knockback, accidentally touching ONE of them means you're basically dead.  And of course if you accidentally land on a crawler when jumping around you're probably dead anyway.

The worst bit though:  The darkness.   If an escape mechanic is going to be used in this sort of area, these NEED to be lit up.  Half of the problem comes from crashing into things that you dont know are there.... but you cant slow down and move carefully, because the game spawns enemies ON you.  It's not like they come up chasing from behind.    Or even worse, crashing into things that you DO know are there..... but you run into them anyway, because you cant see the walls nearby, and try to jump over or something and get stuck, and smack right into them as a result.  I cant even imagine these being possible whatsoever on higher difficulties, not unless you get like a zillion perks and such first.   Again though, I might be at the wrong level to even attempt these, but I still think the darkness should be completely removed, at least for the escape scene (it makes alot more sense when you're going TOWARDS the hacking room, at least).  Not to mention there's already so many dark areas in the game as it is....


Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Lancefighter on December 17, 2012, 02:00:49 AM
Lance's Alpha Funtime server is going to come down for a bit, after the second world was vanquished. I kinda actually need to spend some time playing it, instead of watching others play it :p

Also, uh. I really am not finding myself liking the combat particularly much. I dont really like the way spells interact with each other (the whole bigger spell completely breaking other spells, mostly). I feel like the answer shouldnt be 'spam a big spell'. I feel like instead we need to make all spells go through each other, or make all spells break each other. I honestly dont know which of these I like more.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Coppermantis on December 17, 2012, 02:27:05 AM
Lance's Alpha Funtime server is going to come down for a bit, after the second world was vanquished. I kinda actually need to spend some time playing it, instead of watching others play it :p

Also, uh. I really am not finding myself liking the combat particularly much. I dont really like the way spells interact with each other (the whole bigger spell completely breaking other spells, mostly). I feel like the answer shouldnt be 'spam a big spell'. I feel like instead we need to make all spells go through each other, or make all spells break each other. I honestly dont know which of these I like more.

I like the combat a lot except for what you described. I think that no spells should collide at all except for very few exceptions (like maybe Aquaurgist's special ability, which makes sense as a shield).


On a positive note, the macro game is incredibly fun.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 17, 2012, 02:34:44 AM
Lance's Alpha Funtime server is going to come down for a bit, after the second world was vanquished. I kinda actually need to spend some time playing it, instead of watching others play it :p

Also, uh. I really am not finding myself liking the combat particularly much. I dont really like the way spells interact with each other (the whole bigger spell completely breaking other spells, mostly). I feel like the answer shouldnt be 'spam a big spell'. I feel like instead we need to make all spells go through each other, or make all spells break each other. I honestly dont know which of these I like more.


I think the design goal is indeed to make it so that JUST spamming one spell wont get you very far.  Dont forget this is still a pretty early version.   And the enemy selection does also influence it, and there's a bazillion of them that really arent in the game yet.  Like the Forgician class right now (at least, where I'm currently at in the game).   If I have to face one of those squid things with this class, there's nothing that I can really just spam to deal with these guys without taking many hits.   The basic shot simply doesnt work on them (because of their projectiles), so the solution is to get close by using Campfire, and then hit them with.... er.... that wave attack that makes small explosions appear at a specific distance from the player.   That's a good example of the combat really working out pretty well, and that particular class is pretty well balanced for it.  Even just something simple like bats; campfire wont work on them, and the best way to take them out is with that wave shot.... unless they get close enough to pass through it's range, at which point I either have to use the basic shot, or the ammo blast.

Some spells still need working on though.   Technozoologist in particular seems to need some tweaking.  And I still havent the foggiest idea what Blinding Flash is useful for, aside from smacking bats that get too close.

But if there's any particular spell that seems unusually spammable in any particular class, you just need to point it out and such so they're aware of it.   

Even balanced though, some spells are just going to be really, really good at taking down certain foes (which is probably how it should be).  Light Rocket just completely wrecks those lumpy guys, for instance.... but not always that helpful against some other foes.


Well, that's how it all seems to me so far, anyway.


Lance's Alpha Funtime server is going to come down for a bit, after the second world was vanquished. I kinda actually need to spend some time playing it, instead of watching others play it :p

Also, uh. I really am not finding myself liking the combat particularly much. I dont really like the way spells interact with each other (the whole bigger spell completely breaking other spells, mostly). I feel like the answer shouldnt be 'spam a big spell'. I feel like instead we need to make all spells go through each other, or make all spells break each other. I honestly dont know which of these I like more.

I like the combat a lot except for what you described. I think that no spells should collide at all except for very few exceptions (like maybe Aquaurgist's special ability, which makes sense as a shield).


On a positive note, the macro game is incredibly fun.

If the spells didn't collide though, the game would probably devolve back to what AVWW was.... suddenly, the basic straight-shot type spells would work on EVERYTHING, and quite alot of spells would just instantly become useless in comparison.   Not to mention that some enemy patterns would suddenly become unbalanced.... those squid guys for example, suddenly many spell sets would have great trouble dealing with these, yet at the same time anything with enough range would just delete them.


I'm thinking the combat isnt going to completely agree with everyone.... but that's the case with most games, really.


Been enjoying the heck outta it myself, really.   Unless I crash into one of those crawlers, then I just yell at the screen a bunch.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 17, 2012, 03:18:46 AM
I'm loving the tactical nature of the combat. I've yet to revisit, but my big problem was always that you can't just make mistakes at all, at least not in the early game. Apparently later you have ridiculous amounts of health, but early on, you potentially die in 3 hits, or in as many as maybe 6 if you're lucky and are fighting bats. I'd rather have permadeath-switch-to-survivor or even lose the whole game on defeat and be able to take ten times the damage than dying so quickly.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 17, 2012, 06:01:49 AM
So, the crawler things you guys keep talking about is the infamous Land Octopus, and, I agree, it needs a nerf. :) I'm not sure if I'll have time to get it in there before we hit beta, but, I'll give it a shot.

And yes, later in the game, you can get lots of health, but you'll also NEED more health. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 17, 2012, 06:06:03 AM
I'm loving the tactical nature of the combat. I've yet to revisit, but my big problem was always that you can't just make mistakes at all, at least not in the early game. Apparently later you have ridiculous amounts of health, but early on, you potentially die in 3 hits, or in as many as maybe 6 if you're lucky and are fighting bats. I'd rather have permadeath-switch-to-survivor or even lose the whole game on defeat and be able to take ten times the damage than dying so quickly.

Kinda makes me wonder if it's something to do with the damage scaling?

Generally you'd think it'd be HARDER when you're near the end, not easier.  But you're right, it's harder towards the beginning.

So, the crawler things you guys keep talking about is the infamous Land Octopus, and, I agree, it needs a nerf. :) I'm not sure if I'll have time to get it in there before we hit beta, but, I'll give it a shot.

And yes, later in the game, you can get lots of health, but you'll also NEED more health. :)

.....octopus?   Wait, what?  I'm not too sure about the others in the thread, but the "crawlers" I'm complaining about most of the time are those little white monkey things, or whatever they are, that crawl on the walls.  The ones that appear to be made entirely of glitches :P

I actually dont have any trouble with that squid thing with the blue bullets.  Either Campfire or Light Rocket make it pretty easy to deal with as long as you're careful, and I'm sure there's more options as you go further.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 17, 2012, 07:17:04 AM
Ahh, I'm sorry, those are the wererats then, and yeah, I think they might be OP too.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 17, 2012, 07:31:58 AM
The ones that appear to be made entirely of glitches :P

Those and the fact some of the holes where mercenary coins were had something spamming the entrance constantly made me turn the game off quite early on sadly. That and the fact using a controller was not up to how I wanted the game to be on the Overworld. I will hopefully return to try again later.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Cyprene on December 17, 2012, 07:53:44 AM
A second vote on Skelebot Research facilities needing rebalanced.   I had kind of a nasty experience with mine last night.

It's so dark that you can't even see the enemies as they spawn.  So I had to stumble blindly down a black corridor while offscreen menaces fired at me from beyond my field of view.  Then it spawned some kind of green poison-shooting thing that "blocked" all my attacks while I was in a dead end corner.  It slowly wore me down while I ran back and fourth in a four foot area like an idiot. :(   

Personally I think you might do better if you just let the players see everywhere in most buildings, with the dark ones being the exception to the rule.  You spent a lot of money to make such pretty art (I'm a big fan of the clockwork pattern) and when we're inside a building we can barely see it.   Also, given how much damage those white mini-lions do, it's very, very frustrating to take a leap and land on one, and maybe have to restart the whole level by walking back from the Overlord's castle.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Teal_Blue on December 17, 2012, 08:59:16 AM
I must be no help at all, everything is great!  I am dying and having fun!  :)  Oh, and i'm doing some not-dying too!  :)  That is also fun!
I absolutely LOVE THE LOOK!  TELL HeavyCat they did WONDERFUL!!  :)  Keep up the good work and see you when i get through this desert thingee.  :)

-T


Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Misery on December 17, 2012, 09:14:15 AM
A second vote on Skelebot Research facilities needing rebalanced.   I had kind of a nasty experience with mine last night.

It's so dark that you can't even see the enemies as they spawn.  So I had to stumble blindly down a black corridor while offscreen menaces fired at me from beyond my field of view.  Then it spawned some kind of green poison-shooting thing that "blocked" all my attacks while I was in a dead end corner.  It slowly wore me down while I ran back and fourth in a four foot area like an idiot. :(   

Personally I think you might do better if you just let the players see everywhere in most buildings, with the dark ones being the exception to the rule.  You spent a lot of money to make such pretty art (I'm a big fan of the clockwork pattern) and when we're inside a building we can barely see it.   Also, given how much damage those white mini-lions do, it's very, very frustrating to take a leap and land on one, and maybe have to restart the whole level by walking back from the Overlord's castle.


Actually, I have to change my comments on this one up a bit.

The Skelebot Facilities seem to be (for now) the only real tile that you dont necessarily want to interact with right after you find them.

In my case, I gave up on the facility for a bit.... I figured, this is still testing and I still havent seen the entire game and everything yet, so, figured I'd gain a few levels..... particularly with the perk system fixed up.... and THEN go back in.

And that's exactly what I did.  Got up to level 6, and then went and got the Tier 2 spells (I hadnt entirely realized that there WERE tiers with entirely different setups).  Used the "Lucencer" class, with it's rather bizarre but powerful set of spells (particularly the Lucent V spell), and also numerous perks, which included more hearts, bringing me up to about 7.   didn't have NEARLY as much trouble this time.  This setup enabled me to take out most enemies quickly, and so long as I kept moving, the constantly spawning ones (mostly) couldnt get at me.  There were a couple of close calls, but.... the additional health and powerful ammo spell kept me from getting wrecked.   I think the lowest I got was about 2 hearts at one point when I stepped on a blasted.... er.... wererat.  I coulda sworn those things were like monkeys or something, but then I'm also nearsighted..... whatever, heh.    I also had found an Ivory Tower by this point, so while it was still dark in there, I had a bit more light to see things with, and didn't have to go all super-slow the whole way.   The one change I think it needs is that enemies need to not spawn ON the player, which happened a few times.

The point is, that I'd been trying to go in there too early, and for some reason never quite got the hint that I wasnt really supposed to do that yet.   Considering the sort of rewards those places give though, they really SHOULD be more difficult than many other types of areas.

I must be no help at all, everything is great!  I am dying and having fun!  :)  Oh, and i'm doing some not-dying too!  :)  That is also fun!
I absolutely LOVE THE LOOK!  TELL HeavyCat they did WONDERFUL!!  :)  Keep up the good work and see you when i get through this desert thingee.  :)

-T

Lol, I wont disagree with any of that.   Been enjoying the heck outta it myself as well.   I wouldnt keep this up otherwise, hah.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 17, 2012, 09:40:58 AM
I just noticed boxes don't regenerate on death. That made one of my mini-boss fights over a pool exceedingly difficult. Heh. -adds to the list-
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Coppermantis on December 17, 2012, 11:27:56 AM
I don't think that the were-rats are OP in that theoretically they're easy to avoid. Making it easier to see would basically fix their issues.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Cyprene on December 17, 2012, 12:15:19 PM
Am I the only one who's having real trouble angling shots downwards on a control pad?  Start/Back + fire button doesn't really seem to cut it.  It's even worse when you need to shoot straight down, IE to destroy a box that's directly below you.   I had to jump and fire straight downwards, and it was pretty silly.

I can hit diagonal down on the button, but most enemies take multiple shots to kill, which means I have to run backwards and hit diagonal forward-down again, which is not idela.

What if when you fired a shot diagonally and then stopped moving, any other shots you fired would also go diagonally until you moved your character?  That way I could stay stationary and plug the enemies below me.



Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mick on December 17, 2012, 12:36:14 PM
Am I the only one who's having real trouble angling shots downwards on a control pad?  Start/Back + fire button doesn't really seem to cut it.  It's even worse when you need to shoot straight down, IE to destroy a box that's directly below you.   I had to jump and fire straight downwards, and it was pretty silly.

I can hit diagonal down on the button, but most enemies take multiple shots to kill, which means I have to run backwards and hit diagonal forward-down again, which is not idela.

What if when you fired a shot diagonally and then stopped moving, any other shots you fired would also go diagonally until you moved your character?  That way I could stay stationary and plug the enemies below me.

I think the trigger buttons would make much more sensible defaults than start/back. Start/back should never be used for gameplay, they should be for opening menus and things.

Please change the defaults, don't just say "Well you can modify it in the options." Sensible defaults matter.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 17, 2012, 12:37:02 PM
I find I'm having similar issues with the keyboard to be honest. I find I either need to stop and readjust my hands for a stubborn enemy. I would probably do better on a gamepad using the left/right bumper buttons (though mac gamepads aren't working yet).

Knowing this, I just kind of try to go with a spell that would help with that. I really am digging the different spell patterns available for that reason.

Edit: Ahh, if the default is start/back I would suggest changing it to the left/right bumper (not the trigger buttons, the one above it). I suggested swapping out the default "w" and "s" binding myself. It felt so weird how all the abilities except for one were in a row :D
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 17, 2012, 12:44:01 PM
Unfortunately, the problem is that not all gamepads are made the same. On my gamepad, for example, those are bound to the shoulder buttons.

But, that's why we allow you to re-bind all the commands, and my recommendation would be to bind those two commands to the shoulder buttons.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Brise Bonbons on December 17, 2012, 01:13:47 PM
Yeah, my gamepad sends its left/right "triggers" as some sort of weird +/- movement axis, so I can't bind them at all in many games. Eventually I set up my keyboard (for Valley2) with the skills lined up across a row of keys (in this case m , . / for my right hand) and other functions clustered around the wasd keys which I use to move. This has worked pretty well for me so far.

*

On another topic, I have to ask: Does anyone else feel that the movement in Valley2 is a little... Off? Or is this just me? I want to say it's a little too much floaty sensation while jumping, a little bit of sluggish sensation when moving from a stop, and a little bit of this feeling that when I jump I keep accelerating in the air long after I've left the ground.

OK, here, I'll back up. To be frank, I do not feel like the movement is "right", but I don't know why. You all surely know it, that hard to quantify feeling that "this platformer's movement is just tight and polished and *right*". I'm just not getting that sense here, but I can't tell if it's the actual movement code, or some weird sensation I'm getting because of how the camera sort of moves around of its own volition when you move, or.... I don't know, something else entirely, like me responding poorly to the scale of things on my tiny old 1024X768 monitor. I should really just buy a new one...

As a contrast, on a whim I downloaded the freeware version of Spelunky for the first time this weekend (late to the party as usual), and immediately playing that I was like "YES this movement is RIGHT". Valley 2 feels like it needs some polish to get to this point, but I'm having trouble identifying exactly what I think is off, or if I'm just making it all up.

Any feedback would be great, as this is probably the single biggest thing that stands between me and full enjoyment of the game.

EDIT: Seeing as this is a pretty serious criticism to make of the game, I am sensitive about posting it here in public while the game is still in private alpha - let me know if I should remove this post and just send it as feedback in an email. I post it here despite my concerns because I am interested what the opinion of the other testers is, and I'm hoping it's just something to do with the scale of my display.

For the record I don't recall having a similar impression of AVVW1. My memory is that I immediately felt quite comfortable and happy with the movement in that game.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Cyprene on December 17, 2012, 01:16:08 PM
I didn't think of that! 

Yeah, at least for an XBOX360 controller, which I think has its own presets in your system anyway, you may want to change it to shoulder buttons.  If it didn't occur to me, it's unlikely to occur to a pretty big chunk of the gaming population. 
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 17, 2012, 03:10:11 PM
All in all, I'm definitely liking this. I've sent in probably waay more feedback than they would like though ;)

Even though I'm kicking butt and chewing bubble gum, I think my survivors are about to revolt against me, thinking I'm a double agent the way they're getting wrecked ;)

I hope we get more variety in the survivor missions later, I've not really been including that in alpha feedback, but I've some ideas in that regard for later.

Now if only I can find double jump so I can get mage tier 3 spells :D
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Nanashi on December 17, 2012, 05:52:31 PM
I actually just sent a bunch of feedback over the controls because I feel like I'm fighting them more than the enemies on a laptop keyboard, even after rebinding them.  Hitting the A button to fire while holding down Q is extremely counter-intuitive and I don't think it should be the default.

I actually think that I'd have a lot less trouble if holding down+left/right didn't move the character (like crouching in Metroid), or if both aim keys were scrapped for a "hold position" button. As it is, I'm just pretending I'm playing a more claustrophobic version of NES Contra instead.

I'll probably get used to the controls over time, though.

P.S.: I always get the interesting chunks. :(
(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/634/buggys.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/buggys.jpg/)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 17, 2012, 06:18:36 PM
Heh, If you happen to have the world file of that, I'd appreciate it. I think I know what's going on there.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Gemzo on December 17, 2012, 06:22:02 PM
I think I already sent in a world like that. It's most likely just a slice that put in water enemies by accident. Those enemies also come with water where they spawned, since they're placed directly into the water after all. Anyway I think it's a level up tower slice, but I can't be sure.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 17, 2012, 06:24:21 PM
I think I already sent in a world like that. It's most likely just a slice that put in water enemies by accident. Those enemies also come with water where they spawned, since they're placed directly into the water after all. Anyway I think it's a level up tower slice, but I can't be sure.

Yeah, that almost certainly what it is, but, there is no good way of knowing what slice it is without the world file. :)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Gemzo on December 17, 2012, 06:42:55 PM
I actually still have the save I submitted related to this. Attached with post.

Edit: If this slice is already fixed, the other one might be in the same category, which narrows down which one it could be greatly. That is, if they're not the same slice anyway.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 17, 2012, 07:15:48 PM
Unfortunately, the problem is that not all gamepads are made the same. On my gamepad, for example, those are bound to the shoulder buttons.

But, that's why we allow you to re-bind all the commands, and my recommendation would be to bind those two commands to the shoulder buttons.

Any way you could allow us to rebind the commands for the map view separately from the platforming view? That would be helpful as I hate the actions being bound together. :/
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Nanashi on December 17, 2012, 07:47:41 PM
Got stuck in cave #2 where I'll probably have to poison pill my way out again, lol. (Composite picture thanks to everything being omfgdark)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img717/9941/stuckk.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/stuckk.jpg/)

Attached my world file, sorry if this is a bit late.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 17, 2012, 07:52:18 PM
You got the perk and are trying to make your way out?
There's supposed to be some kind of thingy where the perk is to take as a shortcut to the exit. I got so mad when I was backtracking and couldn't jump up. I suicided, and kept the perk, then I was equivalently happy.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Nanashi on December 17, 2012, 08:57:14 PM
You got the perk and are trying to make your way out?
There's supposed to be some kind of thingy where the perk is to take as a shortcut to the exit. I got so mad when I was backtracking and couldn't jump up. I suicided, and kept the perk, then I was equivalently happy.

I don't know, I must be doing something wrong - all I get is an exit that takes me to the cave entrance and I have to try to escape from the hellhole with my limited jumping skills. I've only ever seen one exit though.

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6298/unjumpable.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/unjumpable.jpg/)

Cave #3 that has done this - the screenshot is taken at the maximum jump height, so it's pretty clear it's impossible for me to get out. I'm getting addicted to these poison pills, haha.

edit: Patch notes for 0.703 say that this is going to be fixed in the next push, I'll wait until the release to continue so that my game stops generating buggy slices.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 17, 2012, 10:02:42 PM
There's a bug in the caves right now. The way they are supposed to work is that there is an exit to the surface after you get the perk token. That extra exit isn't happening very often. This should be fixed in the next update.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 17, 2012, 10:21:15 PM
There's a bug in the caves right now. The way they are supposed to work is that there is an exit to the surface after you get the perk token. That extra exit isn't happening very often. This should be fixed in the next update.
Huh. I thought I missed it when I saw it in my second cave, but it just never showed up.
Darkness messes with you, man.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: madcow on December 17, 2012, 10:26:31 PM
Yeah I looked around for awhile and was like huh, guess I better kill myself.

Also, I didn't realize more than one henchman in a region was a bug. Here I thought that was par for the course ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Vatticson on December 18, 2012, 02:51:42 PM
Hi!

uuhh.... do i have any possibility to join the Beta?  :D I'm somewhat interested. Just finished one continent from AVWW!
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Oralordos on December 18, 2012, 02:56:25 PM
AVWW2 is currently in closed alpha at the moment. I believe that Arcen has all the Alpha testers they need at the moment though. The open beta will arrive sometime in the next couple days if not today. Anyone who has purchased AVWW1 will be able to play that.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: tigersfan on December 18, 2012, 04:01:07 PM
AVWW2 is currently in closed alpha at the moment. I believe that Arcen has all the Alpha testers they need at the moment though. The open beta will arrive sometime in the next couple days if not today. Anyone who has purchased AVWW1 will be able to play that.

Not today. But tomorrow is the current plan.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Oralordos on December 18, 2012, 04:25:06 PM
It's been tomorrow for the past couple of days. ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: keith.lamothe on December 18, 2012, 04:26:51 PM
It's been tomorrow for the past couple of days. ;)
This is Arcen ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: MouldyK on December 18, 2012, 04:28:12 PM
It's been tomorrow for the past couple of days. ;)

It's Arcen's "When it's done." ;)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: icepick37 on December 18, 2012, 04:45:29 PM
It's been tomorrow for the past couple of days. ;)
This is Arcen ;)
You didn't make a gif!

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/32114506.jpg)
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 18, 2012, 05:26:27 PM
It's been tomorrow for the past couple of days. ;)
This is Arcen ;)
You didn't make a gif!

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/32114506.jpg)
Personally I'd think it would make more sense to emphasize the end, not the beginning.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Mánagarmr on December 19, 2012, 06:19:44 AM
Personally I'd think it would make more sense to emphasize the end, not the beginning.
Thank you! I'm not insane. I also instintively said "This. Is. Arceeeeeeeeeeeeeen!" in my mind when I read that :D
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: Aklyon on December 19, 2012, 02:46:51 PM
Storm dash doesn't seem to activate on a controller, I've been trying all the way up to double tap time 1000 and it seems to only work sporadically.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on December 19, 2012, 03:35:46 PM
For laughs, pronounce it the way that it says on the picture. It makes no sense.
Title: Re: Interested in being a part of a private alpha for Valley 2? Read here.
Post by: icepick37 on December 19, 2012, 06:14:23 PM
Aw, I fail at gifs...  this is why YOU were supposed to do it.  :p